Cwebb Vs. KG

[Mr. S£im Citrus]

... What I found most impressive was the rebounding. Garnett gets a lot of rebounds due to his length and quickness, and he got sealed off tonight...

You ain't kiddin', especially down the stretch; Webber had Garnett in a straitjacket in overtime.

I don't think that Webber could do that against a guy with Stoudemire's explosiveness and speed, but then again, I was surprised (and impressed) as hell to see him do it against someone with the explosiveness and speed of Garnett. Perimeter-oriented bigs that can beat you off the dribble are his biggest weakness defensively, and it was great to see him do such a good job against one of the best of that ilk...

 

[GoGoGadget]

Some people are just blind.

No. Some people are just stubborn.

 

[BigWaxer]

Great job by Webb, gotta give the guy all the props in the world, I think he is one of the few players to come away from that injury/surgery and still perform

BTW:
http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/recap?gameId=251212020
Look at the video, is he trying to Kiss KG? I see tongue

 

[thebostonstrangler]

What is with all the Iverson haters in this thread? Some of you in this thread make it sound like Webber never gets a shot with Iverson?

Webber is 8th in the league in attempted shots; he is averaging 18 shots per game. He averaged 19 shots per game last year with the Kings. That is one less shot per game which should be expected when you join a team with a guy who averages 34 ppg.

Iverson was horrible tonight he was probably tired though it was his 3rd game in 4 days and he played all 48 minutes Saturday against Jason Kidd. The Sixers offense with Webber and Iverson has been great all season and they are clicking. You would think by some comments in this thread that Iverson is a selfish ballhog and Webber can't get a shot.

Their offense is great they are like second in the league in points per game their problem has been defense and rebounding.

 

[bozzwell]

I did say (twice) that Webber is better then KG.

 

[VF21]

What is with all the Iverson haters in this thread? Some of you in this thread make it sound like Webber never gets a shot with Iverson?

Webber is 8th in the league in attempted shots; he is averaging 18 shots per game. He averaged 19 shots per game last year with the Kings. That is one less shot per game which should be expected when you join a team with a guy who averages 34 ppg.

Iverson was horrible tonight he was probably tired though it was his 3rd game in 4 days and he played all 48 minutes Saturday against Jason Kidd. The Sixers offense with Webber and Iverson has been great all season and they are clicking. You would think by some comments in this thread that Iverson is a selfish ballhog and Webber can't get a shot.

Their offense is great they are like second in the league in points per game their problem has been defense and rebounding.

Please keep in mind that Allen Iverson has never worn the uniform of the Sacramento Kings, while Chris Webber was our heart for a number of years.

The things being said about Iverson can be found on virtually ANY fan site for any other NBA team. We aren't alone in that regard.

 

[VF21]

You ain't kiddin', especially down the stretch; Webber had Garnett in a straitjacket in overtime.

I don't think that Webber could do that against a guy with Stoudemire's explosiveness and speed, but then again, I was surprised (and impressed) as hell to see him do it against someone with the explosiveness and speed of Garnett. Perimeter-oriented bigs that can beat you off the dribble are his biggest weakness defensively, and it was great to see him do such a good job against one of the best of that ilk...

I wasn't able to see the game so, if I may, I'd like to know:

Was Webb able to move fairly well to the left? That was the most obvious lingering deficiency he seemed to have. If he's regained mobility in his lateral movement, then it seems he has truly beaten the odds and all those who were so sure he'd never be anything like he was back in the day.

 

[BigWaxer]

DID people ignore what I said. KG and WEBB ARE KISSING!

 

[Mr. S£im Citrus]

Was Webb able to move fairly well to the left? That was the most obvious lingering deficiency he seemed to have. If he's regained mobility in his lateral movement, then it seems he has truly beaten the odds and all those who were so sure he'd never be anything like he was back in the day.

His movement seemed decent, but Garnett didn't really test him all that much; he didn't put the ball on the floor very often.

 

[GoGoGadget]

DID people ignore what I said. KG and WEBB ARE KISSING!

KG and Webb
Sittin' in a tree
K I S S I N G...




If there was tongue and/or grinding involved, then it might be shock worthy. Until then? Big whoop.

 

[slugking50]

< kicks box that he didnt get to see this game>




Was it the passive ho-hum KG we saw last week or the old KG with some fire in his belly.

 

[Zyphen]

DID people ignore what I said. KG and WEBB ARE KISSING!

If you look closely, that isn't his tongue. That's paint on the floor.

Also, Chris had 5 20/20 games with the kings. Just go to his bio page on the kings site.

 

[Zyphen]

I did say (twice) that Webber is better then KG.

Yeah, I may have to revise my opinion. I gave KG the slight edge cause he played with such crap and Webb had a title contender around him. But this one reminded me of Webb's Bullet days. More of a finisher and quite a bit more physical. And he's still showing sparks with a mediocre team like the Sixers. I guess the players around him do little to nothing for the excellence of his game. They just give his game different flavors. His injury does dictate which type of game he'd be more successful in. But if he wasn't injured, this is the type of game he'd be having on a more regular basis (minus a few boards). Thanks for the time warp C-Webb.

Pre-Injury Webb > Garnett

 

[Ryle]

His movement seemed decent, but Garnett didn't really test him all that much; he didn't put the ball on the floor very often.

Webb pretty much played to his strengths and didn't really have to exert a whole lot. The last block was great because he had been beaten down the floor by Garnett but was able to get back in time to block him from behind.

By the way, Since Corliss and Skinner can't even get on the court do people realize we seemed to have traded Webb for Kenny Thomas

 

[Coach]

Wow. Great game by Webber.

However, Doc Holliday, one stat to enforce your position (and it's a stat that the Webber supporters always choose to ignore): Webber is one of the absolute worst players in the NBA in points per shot. That's what happens when you have an awful FG% and never go to the free throw line.

But it doesn't change that he had a great game last night.

 

[GoGoGadget]

< kicks box that he didnt get to see this game >

Ditto.

Went to the new boy's house, and even though he's got League Pass, we decided to watch a movie instead.

Bugger all.

 

[BMiller52]

I did say (twice) that Webber is better then KG.

Pre injury chris WAS better than KG though . 27/11/4 doesn't lie. Not to mention webber was usually on a winning team-and made it out of the first round with us. KG only made it out of the first round once. Chris was much more of a winner than KG.

 

[bozzwell]

Pre injury chris WAS better than KG though . 27/11/4 doesn't lie. Not to mention webber was usually on a winning team-and made it out of the first round with us. KG only made it out of the first round once. Chris was much more of a winner than KG.

That's how I would qualify it. What I originally said, was that healthy Chris >> KG. And I might have added that it is KG who has loser intagibles and has something to prove, not Chris.

 

[Bricklayer]

That's how I would qualify it. What I originally said, was that healthy Chris >> KG. And I might have added that it is KG who has loser intagibles and has something to prove, not Chris.

Never gotten that. I will certainly accept arguments that Webb was right there with KG and Duncan at his peak, but definitively better? No. Not really. Better offensively. Worse defensively. Top rebounder, but still a halfstep behind KG/Duncan. Probably the #3 PF of the trio.

 

[LPKingsFan]

Never gotten that. I will certainly accept arguments that Webb was right there with KG and Duncan at his peak, but definitively better? No. Not really. Better offensively. Worse defensively. Top rebounder, but still a halfstep behind KG/Duncan. Probably the #3 PF of the trio.

Perhaps, but I still have a clip from SI circa 2000 that said Webber was outplaying everyone not named Shaq.

 

[bozzwell]

Never gotten that. I will certainly accept arguments that Webb was right there with KG and Duncan at his peak, but definitively better? No. Not really. Better offensively. Worse defensively. Top rebounder, but still a halfstep behind KG/Duncan. Probably the #3 PF of the trio.

I am sure that if we won in 2002 or 2003 (had Webb stayed healthy), let alone if we won in both those years, CWebb would go down as the best pure PF of his time and you wouldn't even be able to dredge up an argument that he was behind KG. That is my point, injuries and _maybe_ bad luck (2002) have deprived Chris of being No 1 PF. I'll give you that TD is still more valuable/better then either Chris or KG (size, defense, "big fundamental" - but that also makes him a PF/C and not a pure PF). Now, I like to pretend that we won something in 2002 and 2003, so I'll say CW>>>KG (notice how I added one more ">"). I've had my issues with Chris in the past and none of them have anything to do with his talent or ability and I've learned to see pass them. KG while exceptional specimen on his own never convinced me that he can match the hype.

Does this look more palatable to you: KG - overrated, CW - underrated?

 

[Zyphen]

Wow. Great game by Webber.

However, Doc Holliday, one stat to enforce your position (and it's a stat that the Webber supporters always choose to ignore): Webber is one of the absolute worst players in the NBA in points per shot. That's what happens when you have an awful FG% and never go to the free throw line.

But it doesn't change that he had a great game last night.

Who's ignoring it? You're just overrating the stat. I prefer PPSO (points per scoring opportunity) myself:

http://www.hoopshype.com/columns/numbers_hans.htm

And even PPSO says nothing definitive about offensive impact. There is nothing that separates players in terms of defensive attention they draw, open looks they receive, and floor time. The NBA isn't a game of Horse. I'd be completely happy with someone missing one more shot a game if he drew enough attention to make other players' shots higher quality (this is forgetting about things like assists, boards, and whatnot..). Webber's PPSO wasn't so great even when he was healthy, yet he was considered among the top PFs in the league. Why is that? Because the stat by itself means ****. Comparably, PPFGA means even less than ****.

 

[acisking]

i tihnk the most incredible thing was that he still shows he has the old spring in his legs from time to time....i was simply amazed

 

[acisking]

I think a healthy Webber was at least comparable to KG. Both have their strengths...both are dwarfed by Duncan in terms of efficiency and career accomplishments though. However, I do feel that Chris Webber is not given his due while Garnett is slightly overrated.

 

[Venom]

I'm going to say that Webber was better than KG, prior to injury. I've always felt that KG has fatal flaws in his game, and worse, his leadership. There are more reasons than just supporting cast that he has only made one successful playoff run. Webber at his peak was a triple double threat every time he stepped on the floor. . .AS A POWER FORWARD. Fifteen to twenty years from now we very well could be talking about how Webber revolutionized the position, and I am being completely sincere. He remained a true power forward, only venturing outside of the (high) post for pick and rolls and other designed plays. Yes, I'm counting his 20-footers as high post.

Maybe I'm overly enamored of Webber, as I tried to pattern my game after his since his Fab Five days, but the fact that the man ran an NBA offense from the power forward position just amazes me. Think of the other names that come to mind in regards to "nightly triple-double threat": Lebron, Oscar Robertson, Larry Bird, Magic Johnson. Those guys were all small forwards, or REALLY BIG guards. And Chris is honestly in their company. He always made his teammates better, and I don't know that you can say that about KG. Peja may not like Chris personally, but would he be fixing to make max money if he hadn't played with Chris (and Vlade)?

 

[HndsmCelt]

Im not sure I'd say Webber has really ever been a better better player than KG but prior to the injury he was definalty in the same zone. Webb unfortunatly matured in direct proportion to his physical decline. KG on the other hand has matured fast and stayed healty. No doubt last night Webber felt 25 again and it showed, but would he really dominate KG every night if they met more? I doubt it.

In his youth Webb was an awsome presence with great skills and athleticisim but also with a nearly termal knuckel head. By the time he hit Sactown most folks felt he was just never going to live up to the promise he had in college, then his game matured and as his knees wnet his out side shot got better and better along with his judgment and leadership skills. Love Webber and miss him big time but as usual I have to call em like I see em.

 

[VF21]

Fair assessment, Celt, and you know how I feel about Chris Webber.

 

[kingsfan916]

Go Chris!

 

[bozzwell]

Im not sure I'd say Webber has really ever been a better better player than KG but prior to the injury he was definalty in the same zone. Webb unfortunatly matured in direct proportion to his physical decline. KG on the other hand has matured fast and stayed healty. No doubt last night Webber felt 25 again and it showed, but would he really dominate KG every night if they met more? I doubt it.

In his youth Webb was an awsome presence with great skills and athleticisim but also with a nearly termal knuckel head. By the time he hit Sactown most folks felt he was just never going to live up to the promise he had in college, then his game matured and as his knees wnet his out side shot got better and better along with his judgment and leadership skills. Love Webber and miss him big time but as usual I have to call em like I see em.

Celt, I cannot dissagree with your assesment, especially as it deals with maturity. But Venom (post just above) has a very good point: While we recognize that Pippen invented/revolutionized Point-Forward position, we don't give (even among Webber fans) enough credit to Webb for being Point-PF for so long. And unique at it. I cannot help but think that if the ball bounced othwerwise (2002) or Webb stayed healthy (2003) I wouldn;t even have to explain myself here.

 

[HndsmCelt]

Celt, I cannot dissagree with your assesment, especially as it deals with maturity. But Venom (post just above) has a very good point: While we recognize that Pippen invented/revolutionized Point-Forward position, we don't give (even among Webber fans) enough credit to Webb for being Point-PF for so long. And unique at it. I cannot help but think that if the ball bounced othwerwise (2002) or Webb stayed healthy (2003) I wouldn;t even have to explain myself here.

No argument here. My point was NOT that Webber was not a phenominal PF when it came to passing, innitating the offense, and just plain uncanny floor leadership. Nor was may point that at one time Webber was not physically a better athleet and generaly more skilled player than Garnet. My point is, and this is really painfull, he was never both at the same time. True he could pass great in his 20's but not smart, and frequently took ill advised shots when one of his brilliant passes would have been better advised. The floor savy came as the body wore down. BUT I loved/love the guy and still think he very sadly missed out on a HOF career not beceause he never ahd the skills or mind for the game, but sadly beceause he developed a HOF mind AFTER the HOF body was no longer reliable.