Cousins Cryptic Tweet

[Hoovtrain]

If you judged talent based on wins/losses, scouts wouldn't exist.

When you get to the point you can look past wins/losses and box scores, then you'll start seeing the game as a scout would which is what's needed to have a valuable opinion on talent.

Lmao. Thanks for the education, I'll keep that in mind next time I'm out scouting..or attempting to form a valuable opinion. Again another person missing the crux of my argument. Some of you people hear one thing about DMC not being this once in a generation player best player and you see red.

 

[rainmaker]

Lmao. Thanks for the education, I'll keep that in mind next time I'm out scouting..or attempting to form a valuable opinion. Again another person missing the crux of my argument. Some of you people hear one thing about DMC not being this once in a generation player best player and you see red.

Hey, you're the one who presented your standard for talent evaluation.

"in the end X and O's are all i care about"

Then you proceeded with wins/losses with and without players.

 

[Hoovtrain]

Hey, you're the one who presented your standard for talent evaluation.

"in the end X and O's are all i care about"

Then you proceeded with wins/losses with and without players.

It's a pretty damn important standard when it comes to "once in a generation" type players, is it not? Because that was my argument, not that DMC isn't a excellent player.

 

[Hoovtrain]

How did this stat work out this year? I ask, because:

1. He finally had a reasonable starting cast (save the SG position), and
2. I already know the answer.

Just curious to see your spin.

Why would I compare this seasons record to his 1st 2 seasons? That was what was being discussed..once in a generation Cs in their first season.

 

[funkykingston]

Hey, you're the one who presented your standard for talent evaluation.

"in the end X and O's are all i care about"

Then you proceeded with wins/losses with and without players.

One very clear X's and O's bit of info that is relevant here is that Cousins has had the lowest percentage of assisted baskets of any starting center in the league since his rookie year. The league average for centers is around 63% and for Boogie it's consistently been around 48%. Yet another indication of how much he's had to do himself to make up for a poor surrounding cast. Andre Miller is the first King since Doug Christie who can consistently make a good post entry pass. Watch Zach Randolph for a few games and see how often his points come from flashing across the lane, sealing his man and getting a quick pass for an easy basket. You want to see Cousins' efficiency improve? You want to see him make his teammates better? Get him more easy looks at the basket and his FG% will go up and he'll see more double and triple teams for easy kick outs. Boogie isn't Shaq or Olojuwon. He's not (at least not right now) a guy who can get you a bucket any time you need it because he still gets stymied by long and/or strong defenders (see Chandler, Tyson or Pekovic, Nikola etc) and he doesn't have O'Neal's overwhelming size/strength/athleticism package or Dream's unbelievable footwork in the post. But he does things at his size that I've never seen another center do. Boogie is a SPECIAL player for sure. How special is a question that won't be answered until he gets a stable organization, teammates that compliment him and a coach who knows how to put him in a position to succeed.

Hopefully that happens while he's still in a Kings uniform.

 

[Mr. S£im Citrus]

... Andre Miller is the first King since Doug Christie who can consistently make a good post entry pass...

Well, Vasquez is pretty good, but he didn't get that long.

 

[Bricklayer]

Why would I compare this seasons record to his 1st 2 seasons? That was what was being discussed..once in a generation Cs in their first season.

Yes, because of course its well known all the once in a generation players who came in as 19 year olds to a franchise that might have been contracted back in the bad ole days.

Your argument, such as it is, remains straw. You are arguing nothing, using inapplicable facts of the broadest possible nature. You get era wrong, age wrong, team and teammates wrong, but other than that, hey, great way to judge. I'm sure 19 yr old 200lb Kareem would have transformed the disaster here in his first 2 years too.

 

[Hoovtrain]

Yes, because of course its well known all the once in a generation players who came in as 10 year olds to a franchise that might have been contracted back in the bad ole days.

Your argument, such as it is, remains straw. You are arguing nothing, using inapplicable facts of the broadest possible nature. You get era wrong, age wrong, team and teammates wrong, but other than that, hey, great way to judge. I'm sure 19 yr old 200lb Kareem would have transformed the disaster here in his first 2 years too.

Ah ok. Thanks for the clarification. Whatever you say my man. Didn't mean to derail you from flexing your unparalleled b ball acumen in what is clearly your personal little playground known as KF.

 

[funkykingston]

Well, Vasquez is pretty good, but he didn't get that long.

True. And funny enough I now distinctly recall using the exact same reference "first King since Christie" in praise of Vasquez. Greivis has substantial limitations that keep him from being a good starter but as a backup in Toronto he's looked good.

 

['89 Kings Fan]

Are we actually having this argument?

While Cousins on the court we were a +64
Without him -365

 

[Hoovtrain]

No you really haven't.

I'm sorry, but this is a flat basketball talent assessment issue.

DeMarcus Cousins is a revolutionary player. Its something Pete Carrill knew from the first time he saw him. He's one of the best bigs you have ever had the honor of seeing. I will not let Kings fans amongst all people remain ignorant of that fact.

Here, these are the Top 4 scoring seasons ALL TIME amongst 23-24 year old centers, done in Per 100 Possessions (per bball-reference) to take the different pace of different eras out of the equation.

#1 Age 23 Shaq: 38.5pts (.570TS%) 16.0reb 4.2ast 0.9stl 3.1blk 4.2TO
#2 Age 24 Shaq: 36.3pts (.556TS%) 17.4reb 4.3ast 1.2stl 4.0blk 4.0TO
#3 Age 23 Boogie: 35.7pts (555TS%) 18.4reb 4.6ast 2.4stl 2.0blk 5.6TO
#4 Age 24 Boogie: 35.6pts(.545TS%) 18.7reb 5.3ast 2.3stl 2.6blk 6.4TO

these are other, lesser offensive, players you may have heard of at the same ages:

#11 Age 24 Moses: 32.0pts (560TS%) 18.0reb 2.2ast 1.2stl 1.6blk 4.5TO
#14 Age 24 Dream: 30.6pts (554TS%) 14.9reb 3.8ast 2.4stl 4.4blk 4.0TO
#15 Age 23 Dream: 30.0pts(.560TS%) 14.7reb 2.6ast 2.5stl 4.3blk 3.7TO
#26 Age 23 Moses: 27.7pts(.604TS%) 19.7reb 2.0ast 1.1stl 1.6blk 4.4TO


Boogie ignorance should not exist on this board. It just shouldn't. People just don't know how to watch bigs anymore. They don't realize what they're watching. But we of all people should be beyond applying the ultimate lazy/casual fans "oh he's losing" excuse to cover up ignorance. We should be the ones watching who know better.


One other thing, we can call this the Bite Me Grant:

2014-15 +/- Per 100 Possessions of Top 10 Players (per 82 games)
James +16.6
Curry +16.2
Cousins +15.6 <-------------
Paul +14.3
Davis +13.6
Harden +11.3
Griffin +10.5
Westbrook +9.7
Aldridge +4.4
Durant N/A

Which BTW makes for a pretty good MVP list for the most part.

In the illustrious words of the great Justin Smith.."stats are for losers"

 

[KingsFanSince85]

You know what stat matters most here? How many games have the Kings won without Cousins the last two seasons?

^^ This is the end game argument and most relevant factor.

Those that don't see this team play a lot - and even misguided fans that do - point at the win total as proof that Cousins impact isn't all that great.

What those people fail to acknowledge is that this team is so bad that they really don't have much of a chance to win games when Cuz doesn't play.

They were 6-16 this year. Two of the wins just occurred against a Lakers team essentially fielding a D-league roster. Take those gimme throw away games away and they were 4-16.
They were 0-11 last season.

That's 4-27 (.129) the past 2 years under the "new" ownership and front office. Conversely, they've gone 51-80 (.389) in games he did play. Not great, but neither is the roster that surrounds him. Regardless, it is a fairly noticeable difference.

You could switch Cousins out with any other player in the league -- provided the same circumstances that unfolded this season (meningitis, coaching carousel, injury to Collison, etc.) -- and it's doubtful that they would have fared much better, if any.

When the Kings fielded their best talent, they won games despite an extremely subpar bench. When Cuz played but didn't have competent support around him (Gay and/or Collison) they were generally competitive even against really good teams. When Cuz didn't play, they rarely won a game.

 

[KingsFanSince85]

To expand upon the .129 winning percentage without Boogie the past two seasons, I think most would agree that 31 games is a fairly ample sample size to work with. If you extend to the same number of games they played with him (131), you'd have a record of 17-114 (.129).

Compare those two records:

17-114 without Cuz
51-80 with Cuz

That's a projected difference of 34 games, or, better yet, triple the number of wins.

 

[KingMilz]

You know what stat matters most here? How many games have the Kings won without Cousins the last two seasons? I will tell you how many, damn few. What happened to the team this year when he went out with meningitis? They lost often. All your comparisons above mean very little because there are far too many variables comparing those other teams and players.

I somewhat disagree because the team is so use to relying on Cousins and running everything through him that they don't really know how to adjust, if Cousins was not here from the start than they would play completely different (not saying they would win more). It's the same reason why players like Chris Bosh/Kevin Love struggled in there first season's of going from a #1 option to #3 option it's something they were not use to doing (Bosh once he got use to being a #3 option than struggled somewhat to be a #1 option again). When you are so use to one guy holding the ball and doing everything when he actually does go down during the middle of the season it's hard to adjust.

We this year other than the first 15 games have been trash with and without DMC that's really the reality.

I use to also to support the whole well we are 5-16 this year without DMC (or is it 6 after the Lakers back to back wins) but I'm not really sure about that anymore since the entire team has been trained to give DMC the ball (rightfully so) and stand out of the way.