Cousins Cryptic Tweet
- Thread starter annihilator_33
- Start date
I was at that game
Collison and Cousins were on fire but Anthony torched us in the second half and we needed OT to win. The defense was epically bad under Ty Corbin. Hard to believe PDA helped to orchestrate that disastrous coaching change and he's still going to be with the team.
Big Cuz 15
All-Star
I was at that game
remember.. vivek hires people smarter than him.
Big Cuz 15
All-Star
8 pages about a emoji of an ear! Good grief.
Honestly I'm just sick of the drama.
I hope the FO do what they need to do to make this team better. ASAP.
vivek has plans on bring over some elephants for the circus in sacramento.
Bricklayer
Don't Make Me Use The Bat
No you really haven't.
I'm sorry, but this is a flat basketball talent assessment issue.
DeMarcus Cousins is a revolutionary player. Its something Pete Carrill knew from the first time he saw him. He's one of the best bigs you have ever had the honor of seeing. I will not let Kings fans amongst all people remain ignorant of that fact.
Here, these are the Top 4 scoring seasons ALL TIME amongst 23-24 year old centers, done in Per 100 Possessions (per bball-reference) to take the different pace of different eras out of the equation.
#1 Age 23 Shaq: 38.5pts (.570TS%) 16.0reb 4.2ast 0.9stl 3.1blk 4.2TO
#2 Age 24 Shaq: 36.3pts (.556TS%) 17.4reb 4.3ast 1.2stl 4.0blk 4.0TO
#3 Age 23 Boogie: 35.7pts (555TS%) 18.4reb 4.6ast 2.4stl 2.0blk 5.6TO
#4 Age 24 Boogie: 35.6pts(.545TS%) 18.7reb 5.3ast 2.3stl 2.6blk 6.4TO
these are other, lesser offensive, players you may have heard of at the same ages:
#11 Age 24 Moses: 32.0pts (560TS%) 18.0reb 2.2ast 1.2stl 1.6blk 4.5TO
#14 Age 24 Dream: 30.6pts (554TS%) 14.9reb 3.8ast 2.4stl 4.4blk 4.0TO
#15 Age 23 Dream: 30.0pts(.560TS%) 14.7reb 2.6ast 2.5stl 4.3blk 3.7TO
#26 Age 23 Moses: 27.7pts(.604TS%) 19.7reb 2.0ast 1.1stl 1.6blk 4.4TO
Boogie ignorance should not exist on this board. It just shouldn't. People just don't know how to watch bigs anymore. They don't realize what they're watching. But we of all people should be beyond applying the ultimate lazy/casual fans "oh he's losing" excuse to cover up ignorance. We should be the ones watching who know better.
One other thing, we can call this the Bite Me Grant:
2014-15 +/- Per 100 Possessions of Top 10 Players (per 82 games)
James +16.6
Curry +16.2
Cousins +15.6 <-------------
Paul +14.3
Davis +13.6
Harden +11.3
Griffin +10.5
Westbrook +9.7
Aldridge +4.4
Durant N/A
Which BTW makes for a pretty good MVP list for the most part.
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What scares me about all of this is that I had the same "you've got to be kidding me" reaction when the "fire Malone" topic popped up early this season. It's so obviously wrong that it's hard to believe anyone sees this differently and yet, there they are. Clearly nobody in the Kings' front office is actually that stupid right?
Don't ever question "that stupid" ...
Hoovtrain
All-Star
lol. your stats are cute, gotta love your old go to "per 100 possession" stats. you are right, Cousins has had the exact same impact on his team at the same age as Shaq, Hakeem and Malone etc etc etc....i mean just look at the stats. Forget that his team has consistently been toiling in the basement of the league each year since his arrival...it's not like any of those other revolutionary C's you mentioned (or revolutionary C’s in general) came aboard crappy, dysfunctional teams with mediocre HC’s as rookies. he must be the one and only exception to the rule. You would think that someone as so revolutionary as he could overcome his teams deficiencies and will his team to 35 wins just by passing gas.
I grew up watching the golden age of NBA C's, so spare me your nonsense about how i (or others) have forgotten how to watch big men.
oh and how is that other revolutionary player (Tyreke Evans was it?) doing? still cemented in NBA lore? I am just flabbergasted that the Kings could only manage 24 and 28 wins with not 1, but 2 revolutionary players on one team.
Dime Dropper
All-Star
Nice strawmen, Hoovs
LPKingsFan
All-Star
Hoovtrain
All-Star
Strawman!? I see no Strawman here! Lol
Please enlighten me on this Strawman. So DMC has had the same impact on his team as other revolutionary Cs throughout the years? Minus the per 100 possession stat of course
Bricklayer
Don't Make Me Use The Bat
You didn't grow up truly watching and understanding what you were watching if you are this confused today. Or just as likely you've started remembering the good ole days bathed in a golden glow thing.
And yes, Shaq at 23 and 24 surrounded by Penny, Grant, Nik Anderson, etc., Hakeem walking into the Twin Towers, and Moses at 24 was on a .500 team, because contrary to foolish opinion, no matter how great you are you can't do it alone, and you can NOT do it with the worst defensive franchise in the NBA (Moses that year played ona Rockets team that was 18th of 22 in Def Eff).
Tyreke BTW is helping this generation's other revolutionary big man play tonight for a spot in the playoffs.
Bricklayer
Don't Make Me Use The Bat
1) don't be utterly foolish regarding per 100 stats if you don't understand what they mean. They are there for your benefit, to provide a neutral analytical field. Team by team possessions a game this year range from 101.7 (GSW) to 93.5 (UTH), so per 100 is pretty close to "per game". In fact the Kings have averaged 99.6 possessions per game.
And yes BTW, at this point Boogie does. Asking him to do it at 19 was a bit much. But at this point he is the only thing keeping us from the utter toilet of the league. And he's done it amongst utter chaos and stupidity with a franchise actively fighting against what he is.
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hmm...
28 wins/59 games played for Cousins = 47%
35 wins/75 games played = 47%
Cousins played 81 of 82 games his rookie year, 64 of 66 the next year, then 75, 71, and just 59 this year. Seems like a reasonably healthy season from Cousins would have gotten us to 35 wins.
Big Cuz 15
All-Star
shouldn't our analytics guru already know this and tell chief butt rash what he has?
Bricklayer
Don't Make Me Use The Bat
Hey, never noticed that little line. Maybe. Or maybe just that one page. Not sure. Maybe they are going out of business. Think NBA.com has the same stats now, just have to figure out their arcane interface.
I always pull my +/- per player from their individual breakdowns anyway, and I have been asked before why they differ from the numbers on the team page. Maybe that is why -- maybe they haven't updated the team page since Feb. Odd.
Hoovtrain
All-Star
lol. whatever would i do without you to elighten me with these revolutionary stats
unfortunately your ego doesn't allow for you to have rational debates when it revolves around anything you disagree with. What is sad is that i think DMC is a fantastic skillset that is on par with some of the best, just don't happen to think he is some revolutionary player like you. Probably because i didn't know what i was watching growing up when i watched true revolutionary, franchise changing C's come in their rookie years and transform a team from garbage to contender.
rhythmless
Starter
lol. whatever would i do without you to elighten me with these revolutionary stats
unfortunately your ego doesn't allow for you to have rational debates when it revolves around anything you disagree with. What is sad is that i think DMC is a fantastic skillset that is on par with some of the best, just don't happen to think he is some revolutionary player like you. Probably because i didn't know what i was watching growing up when i watched true revolutionary, franchise changing C's come in their rookie years and transform a team from garbage to contender.
Your rhetoric would have been completely different if they didn't fire Malone. Cousins is the reason for what little success we still have. I understand what you're saying; superstars should be able to pull out X amt of wins on a bad team. I agree with you. But this is not an ordinarily bad team. This team is SO poorly run, SO emotionally wrecked, it's barely an NBA team because of Vivek. Do you not see that? What we are seeing is a historical run of bad front officing. Cousins is roughly pulling what you're asking out of your superstar. He's still got work to do. But never before has a front office dragged a team down like ours. Never. Look at it. Maloofs TRIED to take talent out of the team and make them lose to move the team, and they still ended up with the same record as this team, where Vivek tried to win. Vivek is a cancer. DMC is getting pulled down. He's not the issue.
Bricklayer
Don't Make Me Use The Bat
lol. whatever would i do without you to elighten me with these revolutionary stats
unfortunately your ego doesn't allow for you to have rational debates when it revolves around anything you disagree with. What is sad is that i think DMC is a fantastic skillset that is on par with some of the best, just don't happen to think he is some revolutionary player like you. Probably because i didn't know what i was watching growing up when i watched true revolutionary, franchise changing C's come in their rookie years and transform a team from garbage to contender.
Yes, when true franchise players came in at age 22/23 after 4 years of college. Or in Admiral's case at age 24 after 4 years of college and 2 years of military duty.
And if I have to enlighten you about your own era...dunno.
Hakeem arrived...to be paried with Ralph Sampson as a rookie. He also went through a lot of long tough years after Sampson disintegrated BTW before reemerging in godmode in the 90s.
Admiral arrived, at age 24, to a specially prepared for him stacked team including a HOF coach, former All Stars at PG and PF, a young Sean Elliot at SF etc.
Duncan arrived to find Admiral and Pop waiting for him.
Mourning arrived to find Grandmama waiting for him, he then got traded to go play for Pat Riley.
Patrick Ewing arrived, at age 23, played in 50 games, and...won 23 games with a messed up franchise in New York. At age 24...he won 24 games with a messed up franchise.
Moses arrived at age 19, in the ABA so who knows, and went 38-46.
Only Shaq of all the modern era elite centers walked into a bad situation and turned it. And even with Shaq they still only won 41 until they added Penny and Grant the next season.
Ewing of all the great centers of modern times is the ONLY one that walked into anything like the crap Cousins has walked into. And oddly, he didn't start winnning until that franchise cleaned itself up either.
Bricklayer
Don't Make Me Use The Bat
lol. whatever would i do without you to elighten me with these revolutionary stats
unfortunately your ego doesn't allow for you to have rational debates when it revolves around anything you disagree with. What is sad is that i think DMC is a fantastic skillset that is on par with some of the best, just don't happen to think he is some revolutionary player like you. Probably because i didn't know what i was watching growing up when i watched true revolutionary, franchise changing C's come in their rookie years and transform a team from garbage to contender.
Here's the worst part about you trying to use an exacting stat to avoid its implications. I was doing your side a favor.
Here is what happens when you do it by minute, which I think is basic enough to avoid much protest.
At age 24, per 36 minutes:
DMC: 25.4pts (.545TS%) 13.4reb 3.8ast 1.6stl 1.8blk
Shaq: 24.8pts (.556TS%) 11.9reb 2.9ast 0.9stl 2.7blk
There is no magic number deception here. This is just what we have been watching. This is just what is. Which only makes our franchise's failure to capitalize that much more embarrassing.
P.S. an amendment to an earlier post. I had forgotten that by Age 24 Shaq had already left behind years of playing with Penny, Grant, Anderson, Dennis Scott etc., and had now moved to L.A. to go play with Kobe, Eddie Jones, Elden Campbell, Nick Van Exel, Robert Horry, Cedric Ceballos etc. Just ever so slightly different career circumstances.
P.P.S. am just as sure L.A. is on the phone with us right now looking to add the ultimate insult to our disaster. Now that would be the tough one. What to do if we traded DMC to the Lakers to be the next great Lakers center. My lord.
Hoovtrain
All-Star
Sorry, you have your stats and i have mine. i could really are less about per 100 possessions bs, or per half a second possessions or whatever... you can put together all sorts of reasoning why one situation was better than the other and why they were all better than DMC's...in the end X and O's are all i care about.
HOU W’s w/out Hakeem-29
HOU W’s w/ Hakeem-48
SA W’s w/out Robinson-21
SA W’s w/ Robinson-56
ORL W’s w/out Shaq-21
ORL W’s w/ Shaq-41
CHA W’s w/out Mourning-31
CHA W’s w/ Mourning-44
NY W’s w/out Ewing-24
NY W’s w/ Ewing-23
SAC W’s w/out Cousins-25
SAC W’s w/ Cousins-24
IfAt1st
Starter
SHUT UP ABOUT THE WINS ALREADY!
It's an embarrassment.
You sound like a national media blowhard who doesn't know anything about the Kings, simplistically snarking "Uh, yeah, but why haven't the Kings won with Cuz?"
ANYONE who follows the Kings knows this season was not about the wins - their own owner and FO blew up the season in mid-December, didn't replace the coach and chose to ride out the year tanking, until the players had to revolt to stop their destructive (Mullin) plan!
How dare ANYone who follows the Kings float the concept that Cousins is to somehow blame for the losses?!
The guy put up 2 of the best back-to-back games in over 30 years.... and his team lost!
What does that tell you about the absurdity of using wins this year as a barometer of one player on this "team"?
It's an embarrassment.
You sound like a national media blowhard who doesn't know anything about the Kings, simplistically snarking "Uh, yeah, but why haven't the Kings won with Cuz?"
ANYONE who follows the Kings knows this season was not about the wins - their own owner and FO blew up the season in mid-December, didn't replace the coach and chose to ride out the year tanking, until the players had to revolt to stop their destructive (Mullin) plan!
How dare ANYone who follows the Kings float the concept that Cousins is to somehow blame for the losses?!
The guy put up 2 of the best back-to-back games in over 30 years.... and his team lost!
What does that tell you about the absurdity of using wins this year as a barometer of one player on this "team"?
Bricklayer
Don't Make Me Use The Bat
That's such a ridiuclous "argument" I know you don't even believe it.
Its dishonest too, which if you know your history the way you claim you already know. I like the way you use Cuz's impact as a 19yr old on a team being run on the cheap by owners trying to sell the team out of town to compare to a bunch of 22-24 yr olds joining established stars and HOF coaches/teammates.
To whit:
Hakeem, Age 22, joins a Rocekts team which notoriously tanked and tanked hard to get him. In fact their tanking was so blatant it led to the invention of the modern lottery system.
Admiral, Age 24, joins a Spurs team with an HOF coach and multiple former All Stars especially put together for him because they had a 2 year wait before he joined them and they had time to prepare.
Mourning, Age 22, impact is about correct since a big center was exactly the final piece needed to complete Mugsy/Curry/Gill/Grandmama.
Ewing, Age 23, joins messed up lottery team, can't fix all the things wrong.
Shaq, Age 20, the gold standard here, although there were again questions if they tanked a bit to get him.
Cousins. Age 19, joins team with broke owners who's only returning star suffers from plantar fasciitis all year and is a shell of himself before shutting it down for two months late in the season.
And that, THAT is your counter to the statistical facts? You mentioned ego earlier. Yours is driving you to say and argue silly things now. Things that you can't believe yourself.
King Baller
All-Star
You know what stat matters most here? How many games have the Kings won without Cousins the last two seasons? I will tell you how many, damn few. What happened to the team this year when he went out with meningitis? They lost often. All your comparisons above mean very little because there are far too many variables comparing those other teams and players.
Hoovtrain
All-Star
Whoa whoa, calm down there big guy. It's just a discussion about sports....and if you were following the discussion you would know I don't blame DMC for anything...I just disagree on him being some once in a generation player
Hoovtrain
All-Star
You are good for a laugh my friend. Your problem is you think you know a lot more than you actually do, hence my ego comment. It's too bad, because we have similar philosophies on C's/big men and their importance to the game. But your delusions on what constitues revolutionary players causes you to say some incredibly asinine things.
Hoovtrain
All-Star
I only brought those up in response to someone else bringing up those specific players
rainmaker
Hall of Famer
If you judged talent based on wins/losses, scouts wouldn't exist.
When you get to the point you can look past wins/losses and box scores, then you'll start seeing the game as a scout would which is what's needed to have a valuable opinion on talent.
How did this stat work out this year? I ask, because:
1. He finally had a reasonable starting cast (save the SG position), and
2. I already know the answer.
Just curious to see your spin.
