Cousins Cryptic Tweet

Mr. S£im Citrus said:
Granted, there's no deal that could be made where we wouldn't be giving up the most talented player involved in the trade but, let's put it in video game terms: if Cousins is ranked at 96, and we get offered a deal for four players all ranked 85+, that doesn't even get you to the table? You don't even take the call?
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There is no realistic scenario that comes close to matching this. You're going to get 2 teams to give up their best 2 players so that one of them can get Cousins? Or is Memphis going to give us Mike Conley, Zach Randolph, Marc Gasol, and some imaginary fourth near-All Star just to get Cousins? Nothing like this would ever happen in real life. If we have a Cousins fire sale we're getting one aging All-Star or one near All-Star level player and 2 first round picks which probably fall in the mid teens or later. That's it. That's the most anyone gets for trading a franchise player. Minnesota got Wiggins and junk for Kevin Love. New Orleans got Eric Gordon and junk for Chris Paul. The Nuggets got Wilson Chandler, Danilo Gallinari and junk for Carmelo Anthony. I see what you're trying to do, you could potentially construct a hypothetical scenario where a Cousins trade works out in our favor. In the real world the only way that happens is if we get a fleet of draft picks and then get really lucky in the draft. That's so far outside the realm of probability it's not even worth discussing.
 
Mr. S£im Citrus said:
:: devil's Advocate hat still firmly pinned on ::

Presumably, a "franchise player" is a guy who, if he plays seventy-plus games in a season, his team will win at least half of them. I might go so far as to suggest that, if you're a "franchise player," your team ought to win at least half of the games you play, no matter how many that ends up being.
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In that case, here are the only franchise players in the league: Lebron James, James Harden, Russell Westbrook, Stephen Curry. That's it. Maybe Kevin Durant. I don't see anyone else in the league winning 40 games all by themselves. Think we can get any of those guys for Cousins? Basically what you're talking about is an MVP. There aren't 30 MVP caliber players in the league.
 
Mr. S£im Citrus said:
If I could play devil's Advocate for a moment...

Speaking purely in the abstract, and taking your loyalty to Cousins out of the equation, is any of that untrue? Who else would you describe as a "franchise player" who didn't make a team better all by himself? Why should anyone on a twenty-eight win team be untradeable?
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as devils go, you suck. :)

okay
Mr. S£im Citrus said:
No, he hasn't. That's my whole problem: he hasn't said that; he has quite studiously not said that. He hasn't really even"insinuated" it; that's just people choosing to manufacture subtext into what he's actually said. Any time anyone has asked him, point blank, if he thinks the Kings should trade Cousins, he says "No." What he has said is that, unlike most Kings Fans, he doesn't think that it's an undisputed truth that no trade exists involving Cousins that wouldn't make the Kings better than we are right now. He's basically saying that, assuming that we're not replacing Cousins with empty space (which is what happens when he's injured, and the reason why our record is so poor when he's out of the lineup), there's little chance that a trade could make us worse than a twenty-eight win team.

He hasn't said that there is definitely a trade that could be made where you could get rid of Cousins and make the team better, but that's more of an "Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence" kind of thing. And, in the abstract, in a vacuum... I don't disagree with that. Now, in the real world, I don't think that there's a team who would try to take Cousins off our hands, that wouldn't screw us over, in the process. Would I take the deal that was most frequently tossed around on his shot today (Lawson/Faried + 1st) for Cousins? Not only no, but hell no. But that doesn't prove that it's completely impossible that a "Godfather" deal for Cousins could be made to improve the team. Now... to be fair, I don't think that any one team could offer enough to make it happen, but a three-team deal might could do the job. Granted, there's no deal that could be made where we wouldn't be giving up the most talented player involved in the trade but, let's put it in video game terms: if Cousins is ranked at 96, and we get offered a deal for four players all ranked 85+, that doesn't even get you to the table? You don't even take the call?
Click to expand...

I don't even take the call.

When you have a young HOFer you do NOT even take the call. You never get rid of the best player in a deal when the best player is Top 10 in the league and is going to appear in Top 100 of all time lists, quite possibly Top 50.

Here is the acceptable package for a guy who Pat Riley would turn into the MVP:



There, that was it. Feel free to scroll around trying to see if I printed it in white font if you want.
 
Mr. S£im Citrus said:
:: devil's Advocate hat still firmly pinned on ::

Presumably, a "franchise player" is a guy who, if he plays seventy-plus games in a season, his team will win at least half of them. I might go so far as to suggest that, if you're a "franchise player," your team ought to win at least half of the games you play, no matter how many that ends up being.
Click to expand...

Sucks that Kobe and KG weren't franchise players in the mid 2000s. Here I thought I knew my stuff.
 
First thing I thought of was KG. But when I went and looked, they had good winning percentages. They had Flip Saunders and Wally Szerbiak too
 
hrdboild said:
There is no realistic scenario that comes close to matching this. You're going to get 2 teams to give up their best 2 players so that one of them can get Cousins? Or is Memphis going to give us Mike Conley, Zach Randolph, Marc Gasol, and some imaginary fourth near-All Star just to get Cousins? Nothing like this would ever happen in real life. If we have a Cousins fire sale we're getting one aging All-Star or one near All-Star level player and 2 first round picks which probably fall in the mid teens or later. That's it. That's the most anyone gets for trading a franchise player. Minnesota got Wiggins and junk for Kevin Love. New Orleans got Eric Gordon and junk for Chris Paul. The Nuggets got Wilson Chandler, Danilo Gallinari and junk for Carmelo Anthony. I see what you're trying to do, you could potentially construct a hypothetical scenario where a Cousins trade works out in our favor. In the real world the only way that happens is if we get a fleet of draft picks and then get really lucky in the draft. That's so far outside the realm of probability it's not even worth discussing.
Click to expand...
You're probably right. Off the top of my head, I can't think of any deal that I would accept to trade Cousins. But let's throw reality out the window for a minute. Let's say that Orlando wanted to go all in on Cousins, and that Milwaukee, for whatever reason, decided that their team wasn't big enough for Jabari Parker and Giannis Antetekuonmpo. Don't trouble me with your logic and asking why they would do it, let's just suppose, for the sake of argument, that they would. Ignoring whatever else had to be involved in the trade to make salaries match, would you consider a trade that sent Cousins to Orlando, if it brought back Oladipo, Peyton, Vucevic and Antetekuonmpo? Does that, at least, get you out of bed?
 
John Galt said:
First thing I thought of was KG. But when I went and looked, they had good winning percentages. They had Flip Saunders and Wally Szerbiak too
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Minus year 1 his winning % 's were significantly better than DMC's. And it is not as though MIN had some great teams. Sure he got Marbury year 2, but the rest of the team was trash.
 
Mr. S£im Citrus said:
You're probably right. Off the top of my head, I can't think of any deal that I would accept to trade Cousins. But let's throw reality out the window for a minute. Let's say that Orlando wanted to go all in on Cousins, and that Milwaukee, for whatever reason, decided that their team wasn't big enough for Jabari Parker and Giannis Antetekuonmpo. Don't trouble me with your logic and asking why they would do it, let's just suppose, for the sake of argument, that they would. Ignoring whatever else had to be involved in the trade to make salaries match, would you consider a trade that sent Cousins to Orlando, if it brought back Oladipo, Peyton, Vucevic and Antetekuonmpo? Does that, at least, get you out of bed?
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The Kings should have 25% of those player assets wrapping up his first season in Sacto:mad:
 
Mr. S£im Citrus said:
It would at least be consistent with what the head coach likes: that would be like his Denver teams, but good.
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True. It lacks a closer, though, much also like Karl's Denver teams. It'll get you closer to 50 wins, but not for 2 years.

Ugh. This is going to be a pretty bad off season. We might need a new acronym.
 
The Kings need to add quality players around their cornerstone. That is what we should be discussing. How does Vlade turn the current squad and the sixth pick into contenders for the Playoffs in the Western Conference?
 
King Baller said:
The Kings need to add quality players around their cornerstone. That is what we should be discussing. How does Vlade turn the current squad and the sixth pick into contenders for the Playoffs in the Western Conference?
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In Cuz's entire career, we've never tried once to surround him with the right supporting players and this group is no different. Its no wonder why he's upset
 
Continuity, ability and will to play a defined, if limited, role and fit are underrated around here.
Malone had a year to prepare, got some tweaks over the summer and produced even with awful bench. Keep the core, peel off some weak links, add some solid vets, who can cover existing holes to some extent at least, keep 'Dre/Reggie for leadership, if nothing else (can probably squeeze another backup PG season out of Miller).
No, Kings need better talent to start over again! :rolleyes:
 
KG had a great coach. Cousins has had coaches that were only coaches by name and not by skill. Not even fair to compare. Cousins has been treated like crap consistently by the organization. One day he is a savior, the next the scapegoat for all that is wrong. If he were to go to any other team, quite literally any other, he would be treated better by default.

Imagine if Pop got his hands on Cousins. That's the difference between good and bad teams. When your leaders are dumb and clueless then your team will be as well. crap always flows downhill.
 
206Fan said:
If Dave was in the movie 300, he wouldn't be so well right now :D. But my fandom says Dave is just another fan who's as confused as the rest of us and wants to inform everyone about what he knows...but political side of me says Dave just wants to stir some ish up. Sports are not politics, so there is that.
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I've known Dave for close to 15 years. I'd bet anything he is NOT just stirring things up. It's not who he is.
 
Hoovtrain said:
Minus year 1 his winning % 's were significantly better than DMC's. And it is not as though MIN had some great teams. Sure he got Marbury year 2, but the rest of the team was trash.
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Marbury and Googs. They were both near All Stars at the time.

But that's not really the issue.

Both KG and Kobe had losing seasons in their MVP caliber PRIMES. Its entirely possible. All you need is a ****ed up enough situation.


And I will again note for the amnesiacs amongst us, this very season we were beyond that. Cousins didn't lose this season, the ****ed up, totally ****ed in the head franchise did. We had it all set up, had our franchise player ( yes Grant you pathetic twit) ready to win...and then something so inexplicable it made us a laughingstock happened.
 
hrdboild said:
If we have a Cousins fire sale we're getting one aging All-Star or one near All-Star level player and 2 first round picks which probably fall in the mid teens or later. That's it. That's the most anyone gets for trading a franchise player. Minnesota got Wiggins and junk for Kevin Love. New Orleans got Eric Gordon and junk for Chris Paul. The Nuggets got Wilson Chandler, Danilo Gallinari and junk for Carmelo Anthony.
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The difference here is that all those teams were dealing under duress. Love had one year on his contract and refused to sign an extension. The Hornets and the Nuggets were both facing an offseason opt-out that Paul and Anthony intended to execute. In all three cases there was simply no leverage on the part of the fire sale team - they had to sell, and everybody knew it.

Cousins has three years left on his contract - a contract which, for the last two years will be a huge steal due to the skyrocketing salary cap coming in 2016. We are under no duress whatsoever to sell. If we get a "Wiggins and junk" offer, we say "no thanks" and hang up. It's a Godfather offer or it doesn't get consideration at all.

Note that I am in no way advocating a trade of Cousins, nor do I particularly care to speculate what a Godfather offer might look like. I'm just pointing out that for all the panic that we're simply going to fritter away the one piece that we've got for nothing, the real situation is that in the unlikely event that we trade him, we will get a hell of a return.
 
Bricklayer said:
Marbury and Googs. They were both near All Stars at the time.

But that's not really the issue.

Both KG and Kobe had losing seasons in their MVP caliber PRIMES. Its entirely possible. All you need is a ****ed up enough situation.


And I will again note for the amnesiacs amongst us, this very season we were beyond that. Cousins didn't lose this season, the ****ed up, totally ****ed in the head franchise did. We had it all set up, had our franchise player ( yes Grant you pathetic twit) ready to win...and then something so inexplicable it made us a laughingstock happened.
Click to expand...

Well these are slightly different situations..as in both Kobe and KG had MANY winning seasons preceding this, and in Kobes case many titles . So their legacies were already cemented and they arent really comparable at all. Listen I love DMC and think he's an amazing talent and they would be fools to trade him, and I don't blame him for the teams woes. I've just never subscribed to the same school of thought that's he's this once in a generation type talent that you think he is. He's got the skill set to possibly be that, but right now he's just a really really good player on a crapty team and I've seen a lot of those guys over the years.
 
Shaq and Kobe joined PO team, that kept their 3 most important starters and 2 benchers, also signed Hakeem's sidekick from Houston and Clyde's one from Portland - all vets, and won only 3 more games in RS and 1 more round in PO.
Garnett's team carried over almost all the vets, added two very experienced guys and went from 21 to 26 wins his first year - hardly a progress. Then they kept the same team another year, drafted talented PG, who happened to be ready start and also adding spot starter from Portland (deep PO team for years) and vet from elite European team to the bench. They were still under .500 though, even if that was enough for POs.

Continuity, veteran team, patching holes - that's the way to PO (given enough talent, of course).
 
Grant Napear should be ashamed of himself.
Blaming Cousins for this year's record is galactically stupid, and displays superficiality the lengths of which a 4th grader would demonstrate.

Let's recap:
Cousins DID have the team winning, against the toughest competition the NBA has to offer. This, with the weakest bench (or one of the) in the entire NBA.
Then, he contracted viral meningitis.
Then, the owner allowed the coach to be jettisoned and replaced him with..... noone. But with clear plans to waste the season and then put Mullin in next year.
Then, the players led a WISE AND ESSENTIAL revolt against said dumbcraptery, leading to tons of losses before the owner became shocked at how much season ticket renewals he was losing with his stupidity.
Then, a new coach was brought in, new systems, and the starting PG was lost.

Pointing to the Kings record this year... and somehow concluding it was COUSINS' fault?
That's borderline insane.

BTW - Grant Napear, if you ever read this : when the man you are ranting about puts up 24-20-11.5-4.5-2 in back-to-back games, and the team doesn't win....... doesn't the rationale human being conclude there's really nothing more the guy can do to make this team win?
At what point do you back away from your irrational and embarrassingly superficial stance?
 
Mr. S£im Citrus said:
You're probably right. Off the top of my head, I can't think of any deal that I would accept to trade Cousins. But let's throw reality out the window for a minute. Let's say that Orlando wanted to go all in on Cousins, and that Milwaukee, for whatever reason, decided that their team wasn't big enough for Jabari Parker and Giannis Antetekuonmpo. Don't trouble me with your logic and asking why they would do it, let's just suppose, for the sake of argument, that they would. Ignoring whatever else had to be involved in the trade to make salaries match, would you consider a trade that sent Cousins to Orlando, if it brought back Oladipo, Payton, Vucevic and Antetekuonmpo? Does that, at least, get you out of bed?
Click to expand...

That sounds like an excellent supporting cast ... for a player like Cousins. Without him it might be good enough to get you to the first round of the playoffs. Of course the great irony here is that it nearly could have been our supporting cast. We passed over Payton, Antetekuonmpo, and Vucevic in the 2014, 2013, and 2011 drafts. We might have even been able to trade for Orlando's 2013 pick with our #5 in 2012 and Tyreke Evans and nabbed Oladipo too. Or I don't know, just kept Evans maybe. Hindsight and all that. But the big point here is that a true franchise player like Cousins is a lot harder to replace than any of the players you mentioned. If you get one in their prime, you don't give them up for anything less than a swap of franchise players which almost never happens because it requires both teams to approve the deal.

Let's say, for instance, that OKC is done trying to appease both Westbrook and Durant and chooses to bet on Durant. They like the idea of pairing a stud center like Cousins with the best perimeter scorer in the league and they trade us Westbrook. Fair enough, I can sortof see that happening. Westbrook, McLemore, Gay is a decent enough start but how are we going to build a winning team around Westbrook with no frontcourt and no lottery picks? The best we could possibly hope for in a Cousins trade is an MVP runner up like Westbrook and we're no better off after the fact than we were before. When it comes down to it, you still need to do the work to surround your franchise player with an effective supporting cast and swapping out one franchise player for another doesn't accomplish that. Building a championship team around Westbrook isn't going to be any easier than building one around Cousins.
 
8 pages about a emoji of an ear! Good grief. :confused:

Honestly I'm just sick of the drama.

I hope the FO do what they need to do to make this team better. ASAP.
 
hrdboild said:
In that case, here are the only franchise players in the league: Lebron James, James Harden, Russell Westbrook, Stephen Curry. That's it. Maybe Kevin Durant. I don't see anyone else in the league winning 40 games all by themselves. Think we can get any of those guys for Cousins? Basically what you're talking about is an MVP. There aren't 30 MVP caliber players in the league.
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There is no maybe about it, how can you have Westbrook in there when the Thunder are barely above 500. (without KD) yet when he missed lots of games I think 2 years ago the Thunder were well above 500. without Westbrook.....Durrant>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Westbrook. The Thunder record is much better when Westbrook misses compared to when Durrant misses. Durrant when healthy is by a wide margin the 2nd best player after LeBron.
 
IfAt1st said:
Grant Napear should be ashamed of himself.
Blaming Cousins for this year's record is galactically stupid, and displays superficiality the lengths of which a 4th grader would demonstrate.

Let's recap:
Cousins DID have the team winning, against the toughest competition the NBA has to offer. This, with the weakest bench (or one of the) in the entire NBA.
Then, he contracted viral meningitis.
Then, the owner allowed the coach to be jettisoned and replaced him with..... noone. But with clear plans to waste the season and then put Mullin in next year.
Then, the players led a WISE AND ESSENTIAL revolt against said dumbpoopootery, leading to tons of losses before the owner became shocked at how much season ticket renewals he was losing with his stupidity.
Then, a new coach was brought in, new systems, and the starting PG was lost.

Pointing to the Kings record this year... and somehow concluding it was COUSINS' fault?
That's borderline insane.

BTW - Grant Napear, if you ever read this : when the man you are ranting about puts up 24-20-11.5-4.5-2 in back-to-back games, and the team doesn't win....... doesn't the rationale human being conclude there's really nothing more the guy can do to make this team win?
At what point do you back away from your irrational and embarrassingly superficial stance?
Click to expand...
Grant has been ripping Carmelo Anthony his entire career (saying he's not a franchise player/doesn't make others better)when he's made the playoffs literally every year prior to this one so it's not really surprising he's calling Cousins out who's never come close to a 500. as the #1 with fairly average supporting casts. At least he's consistent in that even if he's wrong.
 
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