Cousins Cryptic Tweet

[kingsboi]

If you allow me to be cynical for a moment -

Perhaps the FO wants 50 wins, and that's about it. It fills the arena. Karl knows how to get a team to 50 wins playing "his way".
Is he interested in a championship? Does he have the patience? At the start of the year, I assumed that we'd flirt with the playoffs this year, make them next year, and be a contender when the arena opened. It was a likely logical progression. We're now back to square one.
Can Karl wait through another cycle? I don't think he can. I think he wants to get to "competitive" as quickly as possible, but I don't think he's looking to build a long term winner right now.

Of course, all of this is pure sausage and I could be wrong, but that's the way my tea leaves are currently spinning. This off-season will be telling. Are we going to sell low and buy high? Time will tell.

so pretty much the only reason Karl wanted to come back to coaching was to surpass the all time record for most wins? championship excluded....if true, we are in for one rude awakening. Kings fans are way too smart to accept just being a treadmill playoff team like most teams are...it's fun for a season or two but patience wears thin if there is no progress made and if it's minimum.

 

[hrdboild]

Tanking is a HUGE topic in the NBA lately - I feel the NBA does look closer at tankjobs nowadays and will come down on franchises who are too blatant.
One of the ways franchises can cover tankjobs is if they create plausible deniability about their star's injuries and rest-nights.

I just don't see this at all. Not from the NBA league office anyway. The media loves to talk about it every year, but Adam Silver has been strongly in support of Sam Hinkie's blatant milking of the draft system in Philadelphia.

http://espn.go.com/nba/story/_/id/12056123/adam-silver-nba-commissioner-says-no-team-trying-tank

If they're not coming after Philadelphia, how can they justify coming after anyone else? Remember the majority of the owners also voted against draft reform this year. The message I've seen from the league office is: "we're not going to help you out, you're on your own". But Cleveland wins the lottery every year? Tough. But nobody wants to play in Milwaukee or Minnesota? Too bad. If you want to take on the risks of unloading talent, angering your franchise player, developing a culture of losing, and everything else that comes along with tanking for a chance at a top 3 pick, that's up to you. If the fans stop coming and you can't pay the bills, sell to a different owner. If you can't make it work in a small market, Seattle wants a team so sell to them. The league office taking action to penalize teams for tanking would indicate a major shift in philosophy from what they're doing right now. It would require them to first acknowledge that it exists and the owners don't seem to want that.

 

[206Fan]

One does not necessarily have any bearing on the other. "IF" the most powerful yet meaningless word. I suspect your mind is made up.

My mind isn't made up, because I think the media is flawed.. I love Cousins, but it would be disappointing to find out things like that. You NEVER want your franchise player excusing himself for the last 3 games of the season.

I'm just connecting the dots from my own inferences. If Cuz really didn't want to play the final 3 games because of something non related to injuries and personals, there must be something up. Not to mention the fact that Karl told everyone that there isn't a player that is untradeable.


Karl should NEVER say that about any player. He's clearly indirecting that to Cousins. I don't get why Karl couldn't just say that the Kings have a long offseason ahead..but nope.

This is the main problem I have with the Kings new regime. No one in the FO knows when to shut up. When's the last time a team in the NBA had all of these leaks?

You link everything up, and it's concerning at the very least.

 

[IfAt1st]

You know what I didn't appreciate from the players this year? How almost all of them checked out after Malone was fired. That shows lack of leadership with our players including all of our vets and players.

You're missing/forgetting what we talked about wen that happened.

If (as many reports insinuated) DMC and Rudy got the team to play like crap in reaction to the reality that this FO was going to stick with Corbin, torpedo the season, and likely shoo Mullin in to coach next year with a run-and-gun Warrior-lite gameplan (but no personnel to accomplish it)... then they WERE the only ones acting like leaders, in doing what they could to quash that plan on behalf of themselves and sane bball fans everywhere.

I'm really starting to believe that being a knowledgeable Kings fan requires WAY too much memory and understanding of subtlety and PR. Most people are just not able to see through the PR FUD and leaks and just want to conveniently remember the easier narratives. (not directed to you, 206Fan - just taking this opportunity to state it)
It's no wonder most Kings fans are reactionary, confused, impatient fans - that's what the PR machine and the narratives of the team create. It's simply too hard to follow, and most are dependent on the talking heads to consistently supply them with the narratives of what's going on (which as we know are frequently FO-planted lies).

 

[rhythmless]

i'm dying. someone get this man a championship belt.

As much as I'd like that, I don't deserve it. Our goon of an owner serves up sound bytes, mistakes, and all around idiocy by the bushel full. And he does it with an uncanny lack of awareness. We can already teach full on management courses on what not to do.

 

[206Fan]

You're missing/forgetting what we talked about wen that happened.

If (as many reports insinuated) DMC and Rudy got the team to play like crap in reaction to the reality that this FO was going to stick with Corbin, torpedo the season, and likely shoo Mullin in to coach next year with a run-and-gun Warrior-lite gameplan (but no personnel to accomplish it)... then they WERE the only ones acting like leaders, in doing what they could to quash that plan on behalf of themselves and sane bball fans everywhere.

I'm really starting to believe that being a knowledgeable Kings fan requires WAY too much memory and understanding of subtlety and PR. Most people are just not able to see through the PR FUD and leaks and just want to conveniently remember the easier narratives. (not directed to you, 206Fan - just taking this opportunity to state it)
It's no wonder most Kings fans are reactionary, confused, impatient fans - that's what the PR machine and the narratives of the team create. It's simply too hard to follow, and most are dependent on the talking heads to consistently supply them with the narratives of what's going on (which as we know are frequently FO-planted lies).

The media sucks. Everyone in the media sucks, and I truly believe that.

Last week, Carmichael Dave told everyone that Pete would be gone next year. This week, he's telling fans Pete will be back next year.

When you have big voices in the media skewing and throwing random things out there, it's hard not to get lost.

Every columnist wants the next big headline, and every reader is impatient. You feed the demand with whatever sticks. It's why there are no more journalists in today's time.

 

[Mr. S£im Citrus]

My mind isn't made up, because I think the media is flawed.. I love Cousins, but it would be disappointing to find out things like that. You NEVER want your franchise player excusing himself for the last 3 games of the season.

I agree that it would be disappointing if he said this (there's that word again). TTBOMK, he didn't say it. So, why are people getting so het up about this?

As near as I can tell, this whole brouhaha has started because of people misinterpreting vague tweets, and oblique comments from Napear. I have neither heard nor read any credible source stating that Cousins pulled himself from the last three games.

... Not to mention the fact that Karl told everyone that there isn't a player that is untradeable... Karl should NEVER say that about any player.

Why not? He's not invested in any of these guys. His contract is not tied to DeMarcus Cousins, and neither is his legacy. But I'll say this again: saying that Cousins is untradeable is not semantically equivalent to saying that Karl wants to get rid of him. A better translation, in my opinion, is that nobody on this team is "above the law," and I'm not sure why anyone would object to that sentiment.

 

[HereWeBoogie]

So i guess Grant is going off on Cuz again today. Saying that he is NOT a franchise player. Franchise players make their teams win all by themselves. Nobody on a 28 win team is untradeable. Etc etc.

Great

 

[VF21]

The media sucks. Everyone in the media sucks, and I truly believe that.

Last week, Carmichael Dave told everyone that Pete would be gone next year. This week, he's telling fans Pete will be back next year.

When you have big voices in the media skewing and throwing random things out there, it's hard not to get lost.

Every columnist wants the next big headline, and every reader is impatient. You feed the demand with whatever sticks. It's why there are no more journalists in today's time.

Okay, I'm gonna defend Carmichael Dave and the rest of the media here. What Dave says is based on what he's hearing. No more and often, because he gives his word, sometimes less. It was being widely speculated that Pete would be gone by the summer. Not just Dave, but a lot of people were reading the signs and coming up with the same conclusion.

Now, however, it appears as though indications are that Pete will not be gone. Dave made it clear that things had changed, that it appeared George Karl might have been part of the reason for the change, etc.

Dave tells what he can when he can. He never, to my knowledge, has said that he's absolutely sure on anything. The mere fact he says anything at all is, to me, more than some fans deserve.

People gripe when they don't get any rumors or tidbits. People gripe when the ones they do get don't agree with what they want. People gripe just because they can.

This is a typical case of don't shoot the messenger IMHO.

 

[VF21]

So i guess Grant is going off on Cuz again today. Saying that he is NOT a franchise player. Franchise players make their teams win all by themselves. Nobody on a 28 win team is untradeable. Etc etc.

Great

Why do you even continue to listen? Grant spews crap more often than a broken toilet. Listening to him and believing everything he says on his Jim Rome wannabe broadcast is the textbook definition of insanity.

 

[Mr. S£im Citrus]

So i guess Grant is going off on Cuz again today. Saying that he is NOT a franchise player. Franchise players make their teams win all by themselves. Nobody on a 28 win team is untradeable. Etc etc.

Great

If I could play devil's Advocate for a moment...

Speaking purely in the abstract, and taking your loyalty to Cousins out of the equation, is any of that untrue? Who else would you describe as a "franchise player" who didn't make a team better all by himself? Why should anyone on a twenty-eight win team be untradeable?

 

[HereWeBoogie]

If I could play devil's Advocate for a moment...

Speaking purely in the abstract, and taking your loyalty to Cousins out of the equation, is any of that untrue? Who else would you describe as a "franchise player" who didn't make a team better all by himself? Why should anyone on a twenty-eight win team be untradeable?

1: he does make the team better. Whats the record when he doesn't play over the last 2 seasons? Like 3-26 or something right?

2:Because there are a lot of reasons the team is 28 win team this year. Most of that blame falls on the clowns in the front office and a little blame on injuries.

He is untradeable because trading him will not make this team better

 

[HereWeBoogie]

Why do you even continue to listen? Grant spews crap more often than a broken toilet. Listening to him and believing everything he says on his Jim Rome wannabe broadcast is the textbook definition of insanity.

I dont listen i was just given some concerning quotes from people who are listening

 

[Bricklayer]

So i guess Grant is going off on Cuz again today. Saying that he is NOT a franchise player. Franchise players make their teams win all by themselves. Nobody on a 28 win team is untradeable. Etc etc.

Great

Man, I need to long distance phone call into that show someday, but I'm going to need some of you guys to conspire with me to storm the booth and keep the tech away form the kill switch while I roast the redhead.

And back on topic, there is a real concern once that idiot starts this schtick again. He will side with absolutely anybody who's butt he has his nose jammed up at the moment over a player, but he normally has some sense of consequences, unless he does not think there will be any.

 

[rainmaker]

Aren't we like 2-25 or something like that without Cuz over the past two years? I'd strongly argue Cuz has made this team better all by himself and without him in there we'd barely hit double digit wins.

With everything which has happened since we drafted Cuz I'd say our record is far more an indictment on ownership, the FO and the roster around him. But put this same team with the same roster in the East and we hit 40 wins(I'd think we could, at the least), does he suddenly then become a franchise player? Is Brandon Knight a franchise player because he's led the Bucks to 41 wins and the 6th seed?

I'd actually phrase the situation this way; has any NBA team in recent history ever mismanaged a franchise player to this extent before? And while we all have our own definitions of franchise player, I'd say top 10 player in the world and best at his position puts him firmly under that classification.

 

[Capt. Factorial]

As near as I can tell, this whole brouhaha has started because of people misinterpreting vague tweets, and oblique comments from Napear. I have neither heard nor read any credible source stating that Cousins pulled himself from the last three games.

On top of that, we know that Cousins went to L.A. last week to get a second opinion on his foot and we have an eyewitness board report (Kingsgurl via VF21) that Cousins appeared to be suffering from foot pain last night. So do we take Grant's insinuations that Cousins is refusing to play at face value, or do we follow the evidence to believe that Cousins is likely hurt enough that it's not worth him playing in the last meaningless games of the season?

Furthermore, if we can't take Grant's insinuations about Cousins "pulling himself" seriously, can we take anything he says seriously? Grant aspires to be a shock-jock. And he sure seems to be succeeding at getting a bunch of people riled up over what could very well be nothing at all.

 

[Mr. S£im Citrus]

1: he does make the team better. Whats the record when he doesn't play over the last 2 seasons? Like 3-26 or something right?

2:Because there are a lot of reasons the team is 28 win team this year. Most of that blame falls on the clowns in the front office and a little blame on injuries.

He is untradeable because trading him will not make this team better

1. But that also means that we were still only 51-79 when he does play. And what about the other three years?
2. Again, what about the other four years? Do I think it's all his fault? No. Do I think that none of it is his fault? No! Do I think that most of it is his fault? I don't ****ing know; I don't think so, but I don't really have any evidence that says otherwise. Aside from twenty-five or so games earlier this season, out of the 350 games he's played in his career, we haven't won with or without him. We won twenty-five games the season before we drafted him, and twenty-four games the season after we drafted him. And that was with the roster that most people agree was the best roster that Cousins has ever played with.
3. But that's not what untradeable means, though. That's not the criteria: Oklahoma City didn't get better by trading James Harden. Contrary to what Napear might have you believe, Denver didn't get better by trading Carmelo Anthony.

 

[Capt. Factorial]

Aren't we like 2-25 or something like that without Cuz over the past two years?

Whats the record when he doesn't play over the last 2 seasons? Like 3-26 or something right?

Last two years: 5-27 (0-11 last year, 5-16 this year)

And for the record: Under Malone (2-18), under Corbin (0-3), under Karl (3-6).

 

[rainmaker]

Why do you even continue to listen? Grant spews crap more often than a broken toilet. Listening to him and believing everything he says on his Jim Rome wannabe broadcast is the textbook definition of insanity.

I don't see how what you, I or anyone else believes about Grant and his nonsense really matters. We're just discussing it as we're on a forum. What matters and the threat here is how does Cuz take it. In the big picture it's likely minimal, the affect of redhead, but having Grant blast away on KHTK sure doesn't help, it needlessly throws more fuel on the fire, gives Cuz yet another reason to doubt his long-term stay here.

And given Grant does speak for the Kings to an extent, it likely would make Cuz at the least ponder, who else in this organization feels the same way? Add that everything else which has leaked out this season and again, I just don't see it helping.

I'd say there's far too much weight being put on what the average fan or poster thinks. There's zero guarantee our perception of Napear is Cuz's perception of him and the buck simply stops at Cuz thinking Napear is just going for show ratings, so all is good. For me the issue is how does Cuz take all this and he tends to be the type who remembers everything. There's probably 29 other teams who'd love to have him right now and welcome him with open arms. Why give any more reason for him to start looking elsewhere?

 

[Tetsujin]

Can we just have Chris Granger run the entire franchise as opposed to just the business side?

 

[The Hammer]

On top of that, we know that Cousins went to L.A. last week to get a second opinion on his foot and we have an eyewitness board report (Kingsgurl via VF21) that Cousins appeared to be suffering from foot pain last night. So do we take Grant's insinuations that Cousins is refusing to play at face value, or do we follow the evidence to believe that Cousins is likely hurt enough that it's not worth him playing in the last meaningless games of the season?

Furthermore, if we can't take Grant's insinuations about Cousins "pulling himself" seriously, can we take anything he says seriously? Grant aspires to be a shock-jock. And he sure seems to be succeeding at getting a bunch of people riled up over what could very well be nothing at all.

You make a good point.

 

[fansinceday1]

I don't see how what you, I or anyone else believes about Grant and his nonsense really matters. We're just discussing it as we're on a forum. What matters and the threat here is how does Cuz take it. In the big picture it's likely minimal, the affect of redhead, but having Grant blast away on KHTK sure doesn't help, it needlessly throws more fuel on the fire, gives Cuz yet another reason to doubt his long-term stay here.

And given Grant does speak for the Kings to an extent, it likely would make Cuz at the least ponder, who else in this organization feels the same way? Add that everything else which has leaked out this season and again, I just don't see it helping.

I'd say there's far too much weight being put on what the average fan or poster thinks. There's zero guarantee our perception of Napear is Cuz's perception of him and the buck simply stops at Cuz thinking Napear is just going for show ratings, so all is good. For me the issue is how does Cuz take all this and he tends to be the type who remembers everything. There's probably 29 other teams who'd love to have him right now and welcome him with open arms. Why give any more reason for him to start looking elsewhere?

Great post.

Grant has been insinuating that maybe boogie should be traded because with him we've been trash. God how simplistic is that argument?
I would love to see LeBron on this team. LeBron surrounded by trash. How bout Jordan surrounded by trash? Shaq surrounded by trash. Does grant think that these superstars would have propelled this team to 40 wins? Maybe 45? With this same CF of a FO? How would those superstars have performed under the circumstances Boogie has had to endure?
Long term boogie is smart enough to realize that this place is death to his career. Cuz hears everything and karls comments combined with the red heads rants on his little show along with the continued FO dance will just continue to add to boogies perception that he's not wanted here.

 

[206Fan]

Okay, I'm gonna defend Carmichael Dave and the rest of the media here. What Dave says is based on what he's hearing. No more and often, because he gives his word, sometimes less. It was being widely speculated that Pete would be gone by the summer. Not just Dave, but a lot of people were reading the signs and coming up with the same conclusion.

Now, however, it appears as though indications are that Pete will not be gone. Dave made it clear that things had changed, that it appeared George Karl might have been part of the reason for the change, etc.

Dave tells what he can when he can. He never, to my knowledge, has said that he's absolutely sure on anything. The mere fact he says anything at all is, to me, more than some fans deserve.

People gripe when they don't get any rumors or tidbits. People gripe when the ones they do get don't agree with what they want. People gripe just because they can.

This is a typical case of don't shoot the messenger IMHO.

If Dave was in the movie 300, he wouldn't be so well right now . But my fandom says Dave is just another fan who's as confused as the rest of us and wants to inform everyone about what he knows...but political side of me says Dave just wants to stir some ish up. Sports are not politics, so there is that.

 

[King Baller]

If I could play devil's Advocate for a moment...

Speaking purely in the abstract, and taking your loyalty to Cousins out of the equation, is any of that untrue? Who else would you describe as a "franchise player" who didn't make a team better all by himself? Why should anyone on a twenty-eight win team be untradeable?

Why?

Because Maloofs!
Because Keith Smart
Because Mullin & PDA flew to Vegas to axe Malone
Because Jimmer & Salmons
Because TRob
Because they drafted the most NBA ready player this season
Need I go on????

 

[King Baller]

One more,

Because menigitis!

 

[Mr. S£im Citrus]

Great post.

Grant has been insinuating that maybe boogie should be traded because with him we've been trash. God how simplistic is that argument?

No, he hasn't. That's my whole problem: he hasn't said that; he has quite studiously not said that. He hasn't really even"insinuated" it; that's just people choosing to manufacture subtext into what he's actually said. Any time anyone has asked him, point blank, if he thinks the Kings should trade Cousins, he says "No." What he has said is that, unlike most Kings Fans, he doesn't think that it's an undisputed truth that no trade exists involving Cousins that wouldn't make the Kings better than we are right now. He's basically saying that, assuming that we're not replacing Cousins with empty space (which is what happens when he's injured, and the reason why our record is so poor when he's out of the lineup), there's little chance that a trade could make us worse than a twenty-eight win team.

He hasn't said that there is definitely a trade that could be made where you could get rid of Cousins and make the team better, but that's more of an "Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence" kind of thing. And, in the abstract, in a vacuum... I don't disagree with that. Now, in the real world, I don't think that there's a team who would try to take Cousins off our hands, that wouldn't screw us over, in the process. Would I take the deal that was most frequently tossed around on his shot today (Lawson/Faried + 1st) for Cousins? Not only no, but hell no. But that doesn't prove that it's completely impossible that a "Godfather" deal for Cousins could be made to improve the team. Now... to be fair, I don't think that any one team could offer enough to make it happen, but a three-team deal might could do the job. Granted, there's no deal that could be made where we wouldn't be giving up the most talented player involved in the trade but, let's put it in video game terms: if Cousins is ranked at 96, and we get offered a deal for four players all ranked 85+, that doesn't even get you to the table? You don't even take the call?

I would love to see LeBron on this team. LeBron surrounded by trash. How bout Jordan surrounded by trash? Shaq surrounded by trash. Does grant think that these superstars would have propelled this team to 40 wins? Maybe 45? With this same CF of a FO? How would those superstars have performed under the circumstances Boogie has had to endure?

Jordan was surrounded by trash: never missed the playoffs as a Chicago Bull. Shaq was surrounded by trash: winning percentage doubled, overnight. LeBron was surrounded by trash: winning percentage doubled, overnight.

 

[hrdboild]

Who does Grant hypothetically think we can trade DeMarcus Cousins for that is going to lead this team to the playoffs? Perhaps he forgot to take note that we were on playoff place against some pretty tough competition before the front office axed the coach. Perhaps he also didn't notice that we played the toughest schedule in the league this year. Perhaps he also didn't notice that Darren Collison has been injured since the All-Star break or that we have zero bigs on our roster other than Cousins who could even be called average or that we effectively played 2/3 of the season without a backup PG or SG thanks to Ramon Sessions and Nik Stauskas' struggles. At the point where your Center is putting up historical numbers that nobody in the league has come close to for 20 years right in front of your face and you still don't think he's a franchise player, you simply have no idea what the title even means. If Cousins doesn't meet the standard for a franchise player to Grant than he has no idea what the title even means.

 

[Mr. S£im Citrus]

Why?

Because Maloofs!
Because Keith Smart
Because Mullin & PDA flew to Vegas to axe Malone
Because Jimmer & Salmons
Because TRob
Because they drafted the most NBA ready player this season
Need I go on????

At the absolute least, the Maloofs put a team around DeMarcus Cousins that was good enough to win more games than they had the season before, and yet they somehow won one less.

 

[Kingster]

Flawed logic, my friend. Even if Cousins did decide he didn't want to play, there's no way that would in and of itself validate the rumor about him not wanting George Karl.

I cannot believe how quickly people want to jump to the worst possible conclusion.

This is Kings' fans PTSD. We've been bombed for a decade and now a mere pin-prick causes us to run for the fox hole.

 

[Mr. S£im Citrus]

At the point where your Center is putting up historical numbers that nobody in the league has come close to for 20 years right in front of your face and you still don't think he's a franchise player, you simply have no idea what the title even means. If Cousins doesn't meet the standard for a franchise player to Grant than he has no idea what the title even means.

:: devil's Advocate hat still firmly pinned on ::

Presumably, a "franchise player" is a guy who, if he plays seventy-plus games in a season, his team will win at least half of them. I might go so far as to suggest that, if you're a "franchise player," your team ought to win at least half of the games you play, no matter how many that ends up being.