The Kings' offense has greatly improved but their defense is still weak, especially inside. A new C with shot blocking ability, that can play defense and rebound would be a great complement to cousins at the PF. Cousins moves well laterally but not vertically. He has the quickness to guard the other team's PF and lately has extended his shooting range to even include the 3 pt shot. He played some 4 early in his career along side Dalembert. A shot blocker gives the opposing team something to think about whenever they enter the key. This might be one avenue for the future, if a shot blocking big becomes available in the draft or via FA. What do you think?
Cousins at the PF?
- Thread starter ppine
- Start date
Bricklayer
Don't Make Me Use The Bat
I've always considered that a possibility -- its also worth noting that when matched against smaller guys Cousins just mauls them inside. But to some degree its just a matter of definitions. Cousins already has a PF offensive game, or half of one. So its more just how you want to define the shotblcoker next to him.
rainmaker
Hall of Famer
It's something I've been thinking about for awhile now.
1) It's easier to get a shot blocking center to offer protection for both him and the perimeter guys than it is to get a shot blocking PF, especially one who's starter material.
2) He plays like a PF. Not as athletic as but a similar game to Webb. Cuz is not a back to the basket center. He's better at the high post or on the angle from 15 ft, can shoot or take guys off the dribble as well as his passing skills are of more use away from the basket.
1) It's easier to get a shot blocking center to offer protection for both him and the perimeter guys than it is to get a shot blocking PF, especially one who's starter material.
2) He plays like a PF. Not as athletic as but a similar game to Webb. Cuz is not a back to the basket center. He's better at the high post or on the angle from 15 ft, can shoot or take guys off the dribble as well as his passing skills are of more use away from the basket.
Entity
Hall of Famer
one of the best fits in the league is Joakim Noah. without turning this into a Pipe dream thread. The ideal PG and C for this team with Tyreke and Cousins is Noah and Chris Paul.
Chris Paul
Tyreke Evans
John Salmons???
Demarcus Cousins
Joakim Noah
bench
Isaiah
Thornton
JT
PP
although I am sure to get Noah one of the bigs would have to go. But Paul is FA.
Chris Paul
Tyreke Evans
John Salmons???
Demarcus Cousins
Joakim Noah
bench
Isaiah
Thornton
JT
PP
although I am sure to get Noah one of the bigs would have to go. But Paul is FA.
Entity
Hall of Famer
see thats the wrong way to look at. Unfortunatley thats the way alot of coaches think. What you should say is how in the hell is Durant/James/Anthony gonna stop Demarcus. What you do is post up Cousins they will begin to pile up fouls trying to guard him and their coaches will have a change of heart on small ball. This bull crap where you match up with it is for the birds. teams go small you overpower them. They will get in foul trouble
rainmaker
Hall of Famer
The counter argument to that is would you rather a team beat us from the outside, with their jump shooting PF shooting jumpers, or on the inside with more open lanes to the rim and no shot blocking presence which is closer to where we are now.
I think if we could somehow trade for Varejao and he's healthy, he's the type who can swing back and forth between guarding 5's in the post and 4's outside, much like Daly. But those types are few and far between.
We've see Aldrich change the game defensively next to PP and undersized perimeter players and we looked pretty good. Replace PP with Cuz and I'm not so sure all the sudden our defense goes to s***. And while Cuz isn't the quickest player, he did lead the league in charges taken last year and that doesn't happen without pretty good lateral quickness.
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Bricklayer
Don't Make Me Use The Bat
People always look at that defensively. I am looking at that like a big juicy steak. Hey runt, how do you like your Demarcus, rammed down your throat or REALLY rammed down your throat.
Despite what Jerry Reynolds will have us believe however that's an uncommon problem around the league. The mega-sized SFs playing out of position are rare HOF level talents, when you try to do that with anybody else they are just wussy meat for the various good offensive PFs around the league.
The real key is just that whatever shotblockign center you have have enough offense that they can't hide their tweener wuss on him. Doesn't need to score 20. Just needs to have some post game to punish a midget if he gets him.
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I'd love to see that. And, as mentioned before, the idea of Noah playing next to Cousins totally intrigues me. I was a big Noah fan the year we almost got to draft him and that's never changed. I think he and DFC could be scary good together.
ParniValjak
All-Star
This is something I have been saying since the days Dalembert played for us. Cousins played PF that year (his rookie season) and Dalembert played C. The beauty of that pairing was that Dalembert had the ability to defend both PFs and Cs so he would defend the oppositions best frontcourt player adn Cousins would take who ever is left over. It worked really well, especially with JT as the 3rd big off the bench.
Dally is an excellent rebounder, shotblocker and despite his inflated sense of offensive skill, he was not a liability offensively. He has a mid range jumper respectible enough so he is not left alone and he is also not a liability at the FT line sice he shoots over 70%.
I would certainly want him back for a couple of seasons but as soon as I sign him, I am looking to recruit his replacement within 2 seasons.
Dally is an excellent rebounder, shotblocker and despite his inflated sense of offensive skill, he was not a liability offensively. He has a mid range jumper respectible enough so he is not left alone and he is also not a liability at the FT line sice he shoots over 70%.
I would certainly want him back for a couple of seasons but as soon as I sign him, I am looking to recruit his replacement within 2 seasons.
I am happy to be taken seriously for a change. Cousins has learned some things about defense since his first year. The PFs today are pretty darn large humans and I think Cousins can play defense on the vast majority of them. Everyone has trouble with players like Durant.
I am tired of watching other teams' lay-up drills against the Kings. A defensively dominant center would be such a great change. Make other teams try to beat us from outside. The Kings are an average team but they are deep. Substitutions help keep the defensive energy up. Any atheletic player can be taught to play defense. It has a lot to do with desire and technique.
I am tired of watching other teams' lay-up drills against the Kings. A defensively dominant center would be such a great change. Make other teams try to beat us from outside. The Kings are an average team but they are deep. Substitutions help keep the defensive energy up. Any atheletic player can be taught to play defense. It has a lot to do with desire and technique.
MassachusettsKingsFan
All-Star
Exactly. What is a center these days, anyway? The overall idea is to pair up your offensive big with a defensive big.
Lee / Bogut - Gasol / Randolph - Chandler / Melo - Noah / Boozer - Monroe / Drummond - Jordan / Griffin - Howard / Gasol - Sander / Illyasova
All of the good teams that feature big men (with Cousins as our best player, this is what we should do) have this combo in the right spot. It is super important to our future. This is also another reason why I'm still not in love with the Patterson deal. Now we are stuck with Pat and JT, and neither guy can fill that role.
Our options are pretty limited going forward. There is no one in this years draft who can fill that role aside from Noel because the other guy I like, Willie Cauley-Stein is heading back to school. There isn't much in free agency, either aside from Bynum who is a huge injury risk. I would consider guys like Okafor, Dalembert, or Wright as one year stop gaps if we can't fill that role better this offseason.
Darth Divac
Bench
You may be on to something, though....Hmmm.......time to consult my trade-Oracle......
MassachusettsKingsFan
All-Star
The Bucks have Sanders, Udoh, Henson, AND Dalembert. I'd take any one of them, honestly.
They are obviously keeping Sanders. I'd offer IT for Henson, though. Hell, I'd give them Patterson or Thompson if they would prefer one of them.
bajaden
Hall of Famer
Perception isn't always reality. Cousins, according to 82 games, shoots 53% of his shots as jumpshots and 47% in the post. His shooting percentage in the post is much higher than his jumpshot percentage. So in fact, he's more efficient in the post. And his breakdown between the two is about normal for many of the centers in the league, and what I found surprising, is that a couple of guys that just about everyone identifies as a post player, actually takes more jumpshots than post plays. Al Jefferson for instance, takes 72% of his shots from out of the post, and 28% in the post. 67% of Marc Gasol's shots are jumpshots, with only 33% coming in the post.
Some are spit more evenly similar to Cousins. Brook Lopez takes 49% jumpers, and 51% in the post. 67% of Tim Duncan's shots are jumpshots, while just 33% are in the post. The two centers that are primarily post players are Howard and Hibbert, and to be truthful about it, neither has any game away from the basket. So call Cousins whatever you want, but his game will probably remain the same until a coach asks him to change. Personally I don't think it needs changing, just refinement and discipline. What I don't want is Cousins trying to guard the Carl Landrys of the world, because I can guarantee you that Landry won't be guarding Cousins on the other end.
bajaden
Hall of Famer
What about Jeff Withey, who is currently the best shotblocker in college averaging over 4 blocks a game..
MassachusettsKingsFan
All-Star
Looking at where he is slated to go in most mock drafts, it would be a major reach for us at 6-12 or whatever our pick ends up being. He's also 23, but hey! if management wants to trade for another first to grab him, by all means. He's certainly an interesting name.
uolj
Starter
You have to consider both angles.
I'm not saying that not being able to guard smaller/quicker PFs is enough of a reason to not put a C next to Cousins. I'm saying you have to come up with a solution for that situation because you know you're going to encounter it. If you want to compete for a championship, you're going to want to guard Durant and James somehow.
So what's the solution?
rainmaker
Hall of Famer
Care to link that page you're looking at, as I'm looking at both 82games and basketball-reference and there's no breakdown for scoring in the post. Actually, I haven't seen that stat anywhere. And I believe the reason why is because no one actually tracks post ups.
Now, there's breakdowns on both sites for where Cuz is scoring from, but points inside, dunks, close, doesn't define a post up or back to the basket scoring opportunity. I hope you're not looking at 47% of Cuz's shots coming from inside as meaning he's scoring in the post or in post up situations as that's not true. The closest thing I can find is hook shots on basketball reference which almost always come from post up opportunities. But other than that, it's far from accurate. Layups many times come from Cuz beating his defender off the dribble or a dump off. Same as his dunks, many times a lay off diving through the lane. Tips aren't post up opportunities. So I'd like to see what you're looking at.
And who said to change Cuz's game? I didn't. I said he plays more like a PF. He has a lot of similarities to Webber. He has the skillset to operate very well out of the high post. He can face up. Attack off the dribble. Utilize his passing which no one has done since Westphal was here. He's generally a good 15-18ft shooter although this year has taken a number of contested jumpers which is largely due to our poor offense, IT coming down, dribbling in a circle, quick pass to Cuz and a forced jumper. Cuz's skill set has to be taken in the context of a different offense which I've outlined before with video, not Smart's crap offense.
But just because I say he plays like a PF doesn't mean I don't want him posting up. He can post up. I'd like to see more hooks. But if you're implying Cuz is best as a back to the basket post player I disagree, and while he can score inside and I'd like him inside part of the time, it doesn't begin to use most of his skill set. He's not a Shaq, Bynum, Hibbert, D12 type player who essentially need to operate within 8-10 ft out of the post.
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beb0p
Starter
There is no solution to guarding James/Durant. Nobody can guard them, period. The good thing is, basketball is a team sport; there are plenty of games where Durant scored 30+ points... and the Thunder lost. If those superstars go for 30+ pts so be it, try to make up the points somewhere else, that's the way to beat those teams. I'm not saying you throw in the towel and let Lebron run wild but defending those guys takes a whole team - just merely using a better matchup player is not enough.
The point is, having a long shot-blocker next to Cousins is a very good idea. One that several posters on this board have been advocating ever since Dalembert left.
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HndsmCelt
Hall of Famer
I don't get too hung up on so called positions like PF or C. In the end really good coaches develop offense and defense for the players they have and often this means that there may be no clear line between the roles. In our own history look at the Two Towers Atlanta played with Hakeem or even some of the early play with Vladie and CWebb here, where Webber played in the low post while Vladie worked the high post at times.
What is important is that DMC gets some defensive help. This could be from a big shot blocker (Dalmbert part duex anyone?) but could also come from the weak side with a long defensive SF who blocks shots like AK 47 of G Wallace (note I say like as I don't see either available). So from my perspective the issue at hand is who is available at the 3,4 & 5 that can play defense, block shots and does NOT need the ball.
What is important is that DMC gets some defensive help. This could be from a big shot blocker (Dalmbert part duex anyone?) but could also come from the weak side with a long defensive SF who blocks shots like AK 47 of G Wallace (note I say like as I don't see either available). So from my perspective the issue at hand is who is available at the 3,4 & 5 that can play defense, block shots and does NOT need the ball.
Darth Divac
Bench
Al-Faroq Aminu.
bajaden
Hall of Famer
there's no doubt that he would be considered somewhat of a reach, but here was time when this orginization didn't care about those things, and made the right choice regardless. Who the hell ever heard of Peja before we drafted him. He was certainly considered a reach at the time. An insane one by many. The age part doesn't bother me, and never has. Whats the longest period of time any player has stayed on the Kings? 5 years? Maybe 6! If anything it should be considered a plus. Your getting a four year player thats more ready to step in and play right now, instead of a 19 year old immature kid that you hope developes.
That said, I do see your point and what the conventional wisdom is. So to appease the masses, it would be preferable to aquire another 1st round pick. Unfortunately, I think those are going to be harder to come by in the future with the new CBA
