Could we get Okafor?

[KevinSalvadori]

I was just thinking about a deal the Kings could make to get better interior defense and size without losing Evans or Cousins. One deal that came to mind was a trade among teams needing some change in their respective situations. Here goes:

DET gets: SG Xavier Henry, FG Donte Greene, 2nd Rd. pick (from NOH)
NOH gets: PF/C Jason Thompson, SF Austin Daye, SG/SF John Salmons, conditional pick (from SAC)
SAC gets: PF/C Emeka Okafor, C/PF Ben Wallace

Hornets--desperate to get their payroll down--save about 1.5m on this deal and get the option to amnesty Salmons. Daye and Thompson give the Hornets nice young pieces to build around, and they would also receive a conditional pick. Salmons may appeal to them since they have not received any great output at SF all year and also need depth at SG. Detroit gets some much needed shooting off the bench, cover on the depth chart should they trade Gordon, and young size to replace the aging Wallace. Kings get a nice bench mentor for their young bigs and a big defensive stalwart in Okafor they desperately need, able to slot into the starting lineup instantly. In my dream scenario, I would also offer about 7m or so on a multiyear (4yrs, 27m) to Wilson Chandler to take over for Salmons. I'd then trade Hickson to a contender needing depth at PF for a young SG and some cap relief.

New Lineup:

C: Cousins
PF: Okafor
SF: Chandler (fat chance, but dare to dream)
PG: Evans
SG: Thornton
--------------
6th: Hayes, PF/C
7th: Thomas, PG
8th: Fredette, SG/PG
9th: Outlaw, SF
10th: Wallace, C/PF
11th: Garcia, SG/SF
12th: Honeycutt, SF
13th: Whiteside, C/New Guard

 

[itzcoatl]

Ben Wallace is useless at this point. I don't like the idea of pairing Cousins with Okafor. Not sure the two complement that well as neither would be able to guard a stretch 4.

/Pass

 

[KevinSalvadori]

Ben Wallace is useless at this point. I don't like the idea of pairing Cousins with Okafor. Not sure the two complement that well as neither would be able to guard a stretch 4.

/Pass

True, but at the same time it seems like we would gain greater interior D- something that seems a glaring weakness. It would seemingly provide the size boost we had late last year when Dally and DMC learned how to play off of one another.

 

[Capt. Factorial]

Hornets--desperate to get their payroll down--save about 1.5m on this deal and get the option to amnesty Salmons.

Actually, if you trade for a contract it is no longer amnesty-eligible. A team can only amnesty a contract that was their own contract at the time the CBA was signed, so no 2011 free agents, no players traded after the CBA was signed can be amnestied. On the flip side, New Orleans CAN amnesty Okafor.

But if we want Okafor, I'm quite sure we can get Okafor. His contract is brutal. He's owed a total of $28M for the next two years (not even looking at the remainder from this year). Salmons is only owed $16.5M over the same period assuming his team doesn't pick up his final year. So if we offered Salmons straight up for Okafor, New Orleans would jump at it and we've easily got the salary cap space to do that trade this year. We don't need to send away Thompson or Greene or involve Detroit with other players or conditional picks, and we definitely don't need to grab Ben Wallace. We could get that one through straight up.

But I'm not sure it's a great idea. I was on the Okafor train a few years ago, but the way we're constructed now I think his contract would keep us from being able to do much on the FA market, so unless Honeycutt studs up we'd have trouble replacing SF as we resign Tyreke and DeMarcus.

 

[KevinSalvadori]

Actually, if you trade for a contract it is no longer amnesty-eligible. A team can only amnesty a contract that was their own contract at the time the CBA was signed, so no 2011 free agents, no players traded after the CBA was signed can be amnestied. On the flip side, New Orleans CAN amnesty Okafor.

But if we want Okafor, I'm quite sure we can get Okafor. His contract is brutal. He's owed a total of $28M for the next two years (not even looking at the remainder from this year). Salmons is only owed $16.5M over the same period assuming his team doesn't pick up his final year. So if we offered Salmons straight up for Okafor, New Orleans would jump at it and we've easily got the salary cap space to do that trade this year. We don't need to send away Thompson or Greene or involve Detroit with other players or conditional picks, and we definitely don't need to grab Ben Wallace. We could get that one through straight up.

But I'm not sure it's a great idea. I was on the Okafor train a few years ago, but the way we're constructed now I think his contract would keep us from being able to do much on the FA market, so unless Honeycutt studs up we'd have trouble replacing SF as we resign Tyreke and DeMarcus.

Great points, all. The idea of Salmons for Okafor straight up is intriguing, especially if you consider we could make another side deal for expiring money from somewhere else. I would think it could be possible to tailor Thornton and 'Reke's contracts to go high value after the expiration of Okafor's deal (or, resigning him at a lower rate). The other move that could be made is dealing Hickson or Thompson and Garcia to ATL for Kirk Hinrich or, if we find a third team, possibly Marvin Williams. ATL is desperate for size through the injuries to Horford and Collins and could actually use a swingman like Garcia for depth considering they only have Stackhouse and Radmanovich for cover at SF behind Williams. Ick.

Hinrich is an expiring ($8.1m) and would allow us flexibility to take on Okafor's contract AND resign Evans/Cousins. Trick would be getting him minutes with Jimmer/IT.

IN: Okafor ($12.6m, exp 2014); Hinrich ($8.1m, exp. 2012)
OUT: Salmons ($8.5m, exp. 2015); Hickson ($2.43m, exp. 2012); Garcia ($5.6m exp. 2013)

In the end, we only add $4m in payroll and lose Garcia's deal.

 

[Nighthawk1]

Great points, all. The idea of Salmons for Okafor straight up is intriguing, especially if you consider we could make another side deal for expiring money from somewhere else. I would think it could be possible to tailor Thornton and 'Reke's contracts to go high value after the expiration of Okafor's deal (or, resigning him at a lower rate). The other move that could be made is dealing Hickson or Thompson and Garcia to ATL for Kirk Hinrich or, if we find a third team, possibly Marvin Williams. ATL is desperate for size through the injuries to Horford and Collins and could actually use a swingman like Garcia for depth considering they only have Stackhouse and Radmanovich for cover at SF behind Williams. Ick.

Hinrich is an expiring ($8.1m) and would allow us flexibility to take on Okafor's contract AND resign Evans/Cousins. Trick would be getting him minutes with Jimmer/IT.

IN: Okafor ($12.6m, exp 2014); Hinrich ($8.1m, exp. 2012)
OUT: Salmons ($8.5m, exp. 2014); Hickson ($2.43m, exp. 2012); Garcia ($5.6m exp. 2013)

In the end, we only add $4m in payroll and lose Garcia's deal.

This is something I could get on board with to be honest.

 

[KevinSalvadori]

This is something I could get on board with to be honest.

I really think Hinrich could help quite a bit. Right now, he's scraping for time in ATL behind Johnson, Pargo, Green, and Teague. While his health isn't amazing, we wouldn't necessarily need him all that much considering we have IT and Jimmer. At best, he's a solid veteran guard that could help mentor Jimmer a little bit with a nice shot and range from outside. At worst, you take $8.1m off the payroll heading into the summer and leave him on the bench. Plus, we have Hickson to offer and ATL wouldn't be losing all that much, since he too is only signed until this summer and they can fill him in with a healthy Horford next season.

 

[bluntsnbball]

Actually, if you trade for a contract it is no longer amnesty-eligible. A team can only amnesty a contract that was their own contract at the time the CBA was signed, so no 2011 free agents, no players traded after the CBA was signed can be amnestied. On the flip side, New Orleans CAN amnesty Okafor.

But if we want Okafor, I'm quite sure we can get Okafor. His contract is brutal. He's owed a total of $28M for the next two years (not even looking at the remainder from this year). Salmons is only owed $16.5M over the same period assuming his team doesn't pick up his final year. So if we offered Salmons straight up for Okafor, New Orleans would jump at it and we've easily got the salary cap space to do that trade this year. We don't need to send away Thompson or Greene or involve Detroit with other players or conditional picks, and we definitely don't need to grab Ben Wallace. We could get that one through straight up.

But I'm not sure it's a great idea. I was on the Okafor train a few years ago, but the way we're constructed now I think his contract would keep us from being able to do much on the FA market, so unless Honeycutt studs up we'd have trouble replacing SF as we resign Tyreke and DeMarcus.

you really think we could get Okafor for Salmons? I know NO doesnt want okafor, but since its a league owned team, their asking price on all trades has been very steep. I understand this is a straight salary dump for them, but i still think they would want one of our young pieces in return.

And Ben Wallace will not play in Sacramento. He was on the verge of retiring last season i believe, and i think hes only with the Pistons now because he wants to retire with them.

i do think Wilson Chandler would be a good fit. I hear the nugs want to sign him, but Gallinari will most definitely be the starter, so maybe he wants to go somewhere like sac where he'll get more minutes and be a starter?

 

[KevinSalvadori]

PS: My offer to Chandler would be as follows:
4 years, 27m, +player option 5th year
(2012: $5.3m; 2013: $7.0m; 2014: $7.25m; 2015: $7.45m) PO 2016: $8.0m

If we do the moves above, it brings us right to the edge of our cap space but not over. Plus, while any number of contenders could offer Chandler a minimum deal, I don't think Denver could match our potential offer and it kicks in with modest money right as Evans and Cousins would be getting their raises. We would cut $12.7m off payroll this offseason and could have room to do it.

 

[KevinSalvadori]

you really think we could get Okafor for Salmons? I know NO doesnt want okafor, but since its a league owned team, their asking price on all trades has been very steep. I understand this is a straight salary dump for them, but i still think they would want one of our young pieces in return.

And Ben Wallace will not play in Sacramento. He was on the verge of retiring last season i believe, and i think hes only with the Pistons now because he wants to retire with them.

i do think Wilson Chandler would be a good fit. I hear the nugs want to sign him, but Gallinari will most definitely be the starter, so maybe he wants to go somewhere like sac where he'll get more minutes and be a starter?

Actually, I think NOH could be one of the only teams out there that would welcome a lottery pick instead of the young talent. If we offered a future first, Salmons, and maybe one young piece (like Whiteside or IT- pains me, but "give to get"), they would get somewhere around 4m in cap relief and a nice young PG to back up Jack and Gordon, who is currently injured, or a 7ft project with a basement salary. Considering we will probably end up with a decent first rounder somewhere between 7-14, they could be interested. Meanwhile, we spare ourselves the draft pick and put those dollars towards reworked deals to Cousins/Evans, re-signing JT, and the raise to Chandler.

 

[bluntsnbball]

Actually, I think NOH could be one of the only teams out there that would welcome a lottery pick instead of the young talent. If we offered a future first, Salmons, and maybe one young piece (like Whiteside or IT- pains me, but "give to get"), they would get somewhere around 4m in cap relief and a nice young PG to back up Jack and Gordon, who is currently injured, or a 7ft project with a basement salary. Considering we will probably end up with a decent first rounder somewhere between 7-14, they could be interested. Meanwhile, we spare ourselves the draft pick and put those dollars towards reworked deals to Cousins/Evans, re-signing JT, and the raise to Chandler.

NO NO NO NO NO!

i cant say no to this enough times! It would have to be a really good player coming into sac to trade away our 1st rounder, and Emeka is not that player. Not with his salary and limited skill set. The lottery picks this season are just too valuable to trade away for a mediocre player.

 

[Nighthawk1]

Actually, I think NOH could be one of the only teams out there that would welcome a lottery pick instead of the young talent. If we offered a future first, Salmons, and maybe one young piece (like Whiteside or IT- pains me, but "give to get"), they would get somewhere around 4m in cap relief and a nice young PG to back up Jack and Gordon, who is currently injured, or a 7ft project with a basement salary. Considering we will probably end up with a decent first rounder somewhere between 7-14, they could be interested. Meanwhile, we spare ourselves the draft pick and put those dollars towards reworked deals to Cousins/Evans, re-signing JT, and the raise to Chandler.

I disagree, it would be harmful to us to offer a lottery pick in a deal going for Okafor. He's not that big of a need. Okafor is a nice player at the right price, meaning dumping Salmons and Garcia

 

[Capt. Factorial]

you really think we could get Okafor for Salmons? I know NO doesnt want okafor, but since its a league owned team, their asking price on all trades has been very steep. I understand this is a straight salary dump for them, but i still think they would want one of our young pieces in return.

Yeah, I think it's reasonable. They would clear about $5.5M next year and another $7M the year after that. It's not like Okafor is getting them a championship anytime soon, so if they can clear that money and get young, I think they'd do it. Remember that they recently sent Kaman home with the intention of trading him simply to clear up minutes for their kids. Well, it didn't work as apparently they didn't get any offers they liked and they're bringing him back to the team, but I imagine that if they could do the same thing with a much longer contract they'd jump. Sure, they'd probably ask for more at first, but I think they'd eventually cave in to that offer, if we were to make it. I'm still not sold on it being a good move for us, though.

 

[Capt. Factorial]

Hinrich is an expiring ($8.1m) and would allow us flexibility to take on Okafor's contract AND resign Evans/Cousins. Trick would be getting him minutes with Jimmer/IT.

IN: Okafor ($12.6m, exp 2014); Hinrich ($8.1m, exp. 2012)
OUT: Salmons ($8.5m, exp. 2015); Hickson ($2.43m, exp. 2012); Garcia ($5.6m exp. 2013)

In the end, we only add $4m in payroll and lose Garcia's deal.

I think Atlanta could be on board with that deal. I kind of want to think through the entire proposal including the Wilson Chandler FA signing you're looking at.

Our lineup after the NO/ATL trades would look like this:
Tyreke/Hinrich/IT
Thornton/Jimmer
Greene/Outlaw/Honeycutt
Okafor/Hayes
Cousins/Thompson/Whiteside

And we'd be at about $52.7M, leaving us $5.3M that you'd offer to Chandler. However, we can only give 4 years and 4.5% raises under the new CBA, so that would be about $240K per year, so it would be more like $5.3/$5.54/$5.78/$6.02. I kind of think Denver matches that since he's an RFA, but I'll roll with it for now. That leaves us right at $58M and the following team:
Tyreke/Hinrich/IT
Thornton/Jimmer
Chandler/Greene/Outlaw/Honeycutt
Okafor/Hayes
Cousins/Thompson/Whiteside

Offseason 2012, we'd only have Hinrich, Greene and Thompson as free agents, and we'd be at about $48.9M with a likely late lotto pick, so we'd probably have about $7M in cap space when it was all said and done. You can extend it out, but it looks like it works, more or less, as far as extending Tyreke/Cousins. The whole thing probably hinges most on being able to sign Chandler that cheap, but if we could do that I like the look of that core.

 

[KevinSalvadori]

I think Atlanta could be on board with that deal. I kind of want to think through the entire proposal including the Wilson Chandler FA signing you're looking at.

Our lineup after the NO/ATL trades would look like this:
Tyreke/Hinrich/IT
Thornton/Jimmer
Greene/Outlaw/Honeycutt
Okafor/Hayes
Cousins/Thompson/Whiteside

And we'd be at about $52.7M, leaving us $5.3M that you'd offer to Chandler. However, we can only give 4 years and 4.5% raises under the new CBA, so that would be about $240K per year, so it would be more like $5.3/$5.54/$5.78/$6.02. I kind of think Denver matches that since he's an RFA, but I'll roll with it for now. That leaves us right at $58M and the following team:
Tyreke/Hinrich/IT
Thornton/Jimmer
Chandler/Greene/Outlaw/Honeycutt
Okafor/Hayes
Cousins/Thompson/Whiteside

Offseason 2012, we'd only have Hinrich, Greene and Thompson as free agents, and we'd be at about $48.9M with a likely late lotto pick, so we'd probably have about $7M in cap space when it was all said and done. You can extend it out, but it looks like it works, more or less, as far as extending Tyreke/Cousins. The whole thing probably hinges most on being able to sign Chandler that cheap, but if we could do that I like the look of that core.

I like the look of it too, and the other option for generating more money to put towards Chandler, obviously, could be to deal someone else. As was mentioned above, Whiteside could be packaged with Salmons for Okafor, since he is young, cheap, and still a work in progress. Also, considering they are still interested in dealing Kaman they will need depth at that position from somewhere. That would also free up around 750k or so, thus letting us come in a little higher for the offer to Chandler (starting around 6m). Denver is about 1.1m over the cap, so unless they find a way to deal Miller or Anderson, amongst others, I don't know how they'd match. Of course, it's all up to Chandler. What we can offer is the ability for him to start right away, making 6m+ per year. His raises would be $270k/yr, looking like: 6m/6.27/6.54/6.81. That's a decent deal in this climate, and a very good deal for a guy that hasn't played against NBA-level competition in almost a year.

What I like about that lineup is it gives us the ability to continue growing our young players while being competitive now. This was one of the truly great hallmarks of Petrie's teams between 1998-2004. Players like Peja, Jason, Hedo, and even Bobby were able to mature with less pressure thanks to the presence of more veteran leaders. The players above could hopefully add that same sort of swagger, and help our younger guys up their game a level.

As mentioned, the 8.1 off the books from Hinrich is a big element of this, but considering the deal to Chandler it's not so high we are dealing with totally exorbitant raises. The other key is re-signing players like JT and Donte, if desired, to reasonable deals. But that would be a happy dilemma to have with a more competitive team. My personal idea, if we keep the pick, would be to let one of them go and fill that need in the draft- although that goes entirely against this front office and their "best player available" mantra. Still, the team has youth and speed and that seemed to speak to what Smart has wanted all along. Shooting, hopefully, would also dramatically improve.

 

[Big Cuz 15]

Chicago gave up on chandler early on. We'd make the same mistake on whiteside this early in his career.

 

[KevinSalvadori]

Chicago gave up on chandler early on. We'd make the same mistake on whiteside this early in his career.

Well, I agree with your hesitation to trade a young big but I feel like Whiteside and Chandler are apples and bananas. Chandler was the second pick in the draft from one of the best basketball high schools in the country, and had incredible size definition even as a young rookie. He also played 71 gamed his first year (starting nearly half of them) on a transitioning Bulls team, largely having to learn as he played. Whiteside, in his second year, 3 years older than Chandler was when he started and having played at the collegiate level, has played a total of 2 NBA games. Don't get me wrong, I like the kid and want to keep him, but I don't ever see him being at the level of Tyson Chandler- even though early draft estimates put him at that caliber.

Truth be told, I'd rather keep Whiteside and deal Greene to NOH in the potential Okafor deal. Not only could they jump at getting another expiring contract, it would wipe another $600k or so free on our estimates above for the money we could offer to Chandler. In that case, our initial starting offer could rise to $6.67m, which I think would be highly competitive. The deal would then be 4 years, with annual salaries of around $6.67m/$6.97m/$7.27m/$7.57m (accounting for the 4.5% max raise under the new CBA). That, combined with being able to make him our starting SF straight away, seems a very solid offer.

 

[Section 101]

PS: My offer to Chandler would be as follows:
4 years, 27m, +player option 5th year
(2012: $5.3m; 2013: $7.0m; 2014: $7.25m; 2015: $7.45m) PO 2016: $8.0m

If we do the moves above, it brings us right to the edge of our cap space but not over. Plus, while any number of contenders could offer Chandler a minimum deal, I don't think Denver could match our potential offer and it kicks in with modest money right as Evans and Cousins would be getting their raises. We would cut $12.7m off payroll this offseason and could have room to do it.

Longest contract you can sign a FA for is 4 years. You can only do a 5 year with one of your own FA.

 

[KevinSalvadori]

Longest contract you can sign a FA for is 4 years. You can only do a 5 year with one of your own FA.

Good find, thanks. In that case the offer to Chandler would be the four year deal starting at $6.67 mentioned above, escalating $300k/yr and leaving him with a max salary of $7.57m. This is taking into account the fact that we raise salary based on the deal for Okafor where Salmons goes the other way.

 

[upinsmoke]

I see what you are going for KevinSalvadori because he is a presence on D but I dont think he would be a big difference maker for his price tag. Better to re-sign Thompson for a fraction of the price and keep this core together because they are making progress.