Coping with Lins

[K F Jay]

I'm all for losing games -only when Tyreke is not playing- at this point of the season for the sake of ping pong balls but I want to see our team play good. When the Kings are winning and playing good I find myself rooting for the team to play bad just enough to lose. I'm not functioning to well these days. My subconsious mind is confused beacause I'm :] if we lose and :[ for rooting for my team to play bad just enough to lose. Look at the last 2 games for example. In the Memphis game I was :] Kings were playing good but :[ we could win in the first half and :[ because the Kings sucked in the 2nd half but :] we lost. In the Nets game I was :[ the whole game but :] we lost.

With Tyreke in the lineup. I can't decide rooting for Wins or Lins. For me I can't wait for the season to end.

 

[Bricklayer]

I'm all for losing games -only when Tyreke is not playing- at this point of the season for the sake of ping pong balls but I want to see our team play good. When the Kings are winning and playing good I find myself rooting for the team to play bad just enough to lose. I'm not functioning to well these days. My subconsious mind is confused beacause I'm :] if we lose and :[ for rooting for my team to play bad just enough to lose. Look at the last 2 games for example. In the Memphis game I was :] Kings were playing good but :[ we could win in the first half and :[ because the Kings sucked in the 2nd half but :] we lost. In the Nets game I was :[ the whole game but :] we lost.

With Tyreke in the lineup. I can't decide rooting for Wins or Lins. For me I can't wait for the season to end.

Ok, what you have missed is that 2a :] -2a:[ = a:] + a:[ -2a:[

Be at peace.

 

[cstorm]

This thread sounds like a self help group.

Me: "Hi, I'm Bob and I'm a Linner."

Clippers Fans:"Hi Bob, welcome to the group."

 

[captain bill]

Ok, what you have missed is that 2a :] -2a:[ = a:] + a:[ -2a:[

Be at peace.

i missed the yellow face the first time around. i went back to try to read the post with those in it and ended up with a headache. now i want to go to bed.


solution: NCAA tourney is on. any time someone makes a clutch play, imagine him in a kings uni next year (K-State-Xavier is producing several moments good for this)

 

[piksi]

Losing right now is easy and doesn't affect anything. Winning affect our future in the negative way. For the fact that losers are benefited then NBA is responsible. Only way for us to start winning is to lose as much as possible now.

Playoff loses hurt, not playing playoffs hurt. Losing while rebuilding doesn't. It is a very welcome phenomena. There is just no reason for us to win any games this season. I wish we had this team and Nets record.

 

[kingsnation]

I'm all for losing games -only when Tyreke is not playing- at this point of the season for the sake of ping pong balls but I want to see our team play good. When the Kings are winning and playing good I find myself rooting for the team to play bad just enough to lose. I'm not functioning to well these days. My subconsious mind is confused beacause I'm :] if we lose and :[ for rooting for my team to play bad just enough to lose. Look at the last 2 games for example. In the Memphis game I was :] Kings were playing good but :[ we could win in the first half and :[ because the Kings sucked in the 2nd half but :] we lost. In the Nets game I was :[ the whole game but :] we lost.

With Tyreke in the lineup. I can't decide rooting for Wins or Lins. For me I can't wait for the season to end.

Keep writing these types of posts and the season will be over before you know it.

In all seriousness, Root for your team to win. When they don't, think of John Wall.

 

[D13]

At the end of the season you'll even see some playoff teams Lin if they are close to dropping down to a better matchup. They are looking at the Future...

Then there's the playoff teams that will rest their main guys, win or lose, as long as it doesn't effect their standing, they won't stress over it. They are looking at the Future..

Kings need to LIN!!!... we've had 1 top 5 pick in how many... 25yrs? It's time to pair Tyreke with another franchise player. We need to look at the FUTURE too! Next year! This year is done, stick a fork in it....

 

[Gilles]

Kings need to LIN!!!... we've had 1 top 5 pick in how many... 25yrs? It's time to pair Tyreke with another franchise player. We need to look at the FUTURE too! Next year! This year is done, stick a fork in it....

I think you're not up to date with terms! From your words I understand you support wosing mentality. So "Let Kings wose!" should be your motto. If you want a better chance at second franchise building block, of course.

 

[Big Cuz 15]

all you need to know is we are mathematically eliminated from the playoffs. no chance at the playoffs at all. what is there to really play for? a few feel good wins so we can feel good about next season or a higher draft position? sure a few losses hurt but it'll all go away when we pick up another good young building block for our team. if we land cousins or turner and bosh this summer we will definitely be in the playoff hunt next season.

 

[DocHolliday]

Losing right now is easy and doesn't affect anything. Winning affect our future in the negative way. For the fact that losers are benefited then NBA is responsible. Only way for us to start winning is to lose as much as possible now.

Playoff loses hurt, not playing playoffs hurt. Losing while rebuilding doesn't. It is a very welcome phenomena. There is just no reason for us to win any games this season. I wish we had this team and Nets record.

The Kings had the worst record in the league last year, and what they received was the fourth pic. I am not in favor having the worst record. It's luck of the draw. Yes, having more ping pong balls gives you a higher percentage chance of the first pick. However, the highest probably percentage is 25% as the Kings had last year.

I do want this team to win. I want the young guys to fight as hard as they can. I do not want my young guys having it taught to them that losing is acceptable. They need to know that winning is the only option. Anything less is failure. If they happen to fail tha's ok, they just need to keep on working with one goal in mind.

So, I respectfully disagree.

 

[dbfish]

This thread sounds like a self help group.

Me: "Hi, I'm Bob and I'm a Linner."

Clippers Fans:"Hi Bob, welcome to the group."

Where can I attend meetings?

 

[Bricklayer]

The Kings had the worst record in the league last year, and what they received was the fourth pic.

That still remains the wrong way to look at it. Because we had the worst record last year, we could not have anything worse than the 4th pick. In a draft year without a Shaquille O'Neal type #1 pick, that guarantee of not being able to fall out of the Top 4 was probably more valuable than having the best shot at #1. We got Tyreke as a direct result of that terrible sucktatude. A few more wins, and he's gone and we have Johnny Flynn instead. Being the worst absolutely worked for us. It effectively bailed this franchise out.

Now this year, we're not going to be there. And the corner has to be turned at some point. Actually it already has. Last year was the bottom, unless Tyreke has a major injury we'll never be that bad again in the next 12-15 years. But that's also why this draft, this one last shot at the top of the lottery, could be so key. We aren't going to be back into top pick neighborhood for a long long time. By the time we finally do return, this board may no longer be here, let alone we individual posters. This could well be our last chance to load up on another top young talent until the 2020's. This year is a little different -- last season it was clear the best course of action was losing by the time the new year rolled around. Its taken a long time to get into that neighborhood this year. But with only a handful of games left losing anything that's not an embarrassment or a grudge match is nothing to get too upset about. In particular with Reke down, giving us an excuse and with us essentially not being the team we are going to try to win with next year, its really ok. Once he gets back I'll be a little more persnickety as you don't want the young core to be embarrassed and lose confidence in each other. But this draft pick is legitimately more important than that. We've already done enough to have real hope for the future and have everybody go into the offseason thinking if they work hard they can come back and be pretty good. And we've got this one summer to potentially add two major pieces (high draft pick + FA). You don't want to blow that for a meaningless April victory that nobody will ever remember.

This should be the last season though. If the draft pick and free agency goes well, we're done with the rebuilding strategies and back into trying to win mode. But not quite yet. Another ten games of patience and plotting to set up the future and we are home.

 

[TTown Kings]

Keep the lins coming baby!!!!

Seriously though, I hate seeing the team lose just like everyone else, but we need to think about the bigger picture. A few more losses this year could be the difference between getting a Tyreke Evans vs a Jordan Hill. I know it's the lotto and nothing is guaranteed, but a few extra wins doesn't do anything for us either.

I sure would love to see Derek Favors in a Kings uni next season, for that to happen we need a top 4 pick.

 

[fnordius]

Last year was the bottom, unless Tyreke has a major injury we'll never be that bad again in the next 12-15 years.

Isn't that what we were telling ourselves in '98?

I do agree though, that the time to suck is now. A couple of top 5 picks in a row is a much better thing than two with several years between them.

 

[Bricklayer]

Isn't that what we were telling ourselves in '99?

Different situation. Webb was 26 when he came over. Vlade of course 30. You hoped you could be good for a long long time. Forever in Kings years given our history. But it was always going to be capped at 8-10 years max even if it was best case.

Now when you've got a 20 year old superstar in the making...its really just silly some of the implications. In 15 years the year will be 2025. 2025! And Reke will still only be 35. Probably starting to decline finally after a decade+ of dominance. And 15 years of your life will have gone by -- probably 1/4 to 1/3 of your adult life as a Kings fan. We just aren't going to be back in that top pick position forever and ever. And unfortunately by the time we finally do the whole new breed of fans around here, if there is a here, will have to start all over at understanding the necessity of getting bad to get good. All these lessons will be ancient, and I do mean, ancient history. The story of the original Golden Era's rise and fall will be as distant to them as the very first Kings team after it moved to Sacramento is to us today.

 

[mcsluggo]

that is a DAMN optimistic view of the future! cut to 1990...


the kings have LAST YEAR's #1 one overall pick Never nervous Pervis securely on the roster and FOUR first round picks... CLEARLY they are set! and there is no way they will be back in this high draft position for 15 years.........

d'oh!

 

[Bricklayer]

that is a DAMN optimistic view of the future! cut to 1990...


the kings have LAST YEAR's #1 one overall pick Never nervous Pervis securely on the roster and FOUR first round picks... CLEARLY they are set! and there is no way they will be back in this high draft position for 15 years.........

d'oh!

The difference is the magic player is already here. So its barely optimistic at all. Doesn't require anything magical to happen, nobody has to work out. The player who matters and who will for better or worse always elevate you into 30+ win status just by his presence is already here. We could get in the lottery in Reke's years here, indeed being back in the lottery next year would not be a shcoker. But its the lottery as a 35-40 win team type stuff. The deep lottery with very little chance to move up. And with everybody so young, another pick and free agency coming, the franchise player in place...it would really require sever mismanagement not to be a perennial playoff team for the vast majority of those years.

 

[fnordius]

that is a DAMN optimistic view of the future!

While I do think Brick's general premise is correct...

Agreed. The franchise didn't hold onto Oscar Robertson, Mitch Richmond, Chris Webber, or pretty much anyone else until they were 35, and I can't even think of who the last player (who didn't suck) was who stayed with the franchise their entire career. So I'm not holding my breath now.

 

[D13]

I think you're not up to date with terms! From your words I understand you support wosing mentality. So "Let Kings wose!" should be your motto. If you want a better chance at second franchise building block, of course.

Lin = Lose the game but we still win by better lottery pick?
Wose = Won the game but lost in our lottery position?

Whatever the heck it is, right now we need to LOSE some games so we can WIN with a better lotto pick... although it'd be nice to still be competitive... so no blow outs please.

 

[FaStRmAn]

Get on board with the LINS !!

Lets look at the facts! Playoffs are a non issue at this point. We are MATHEMATICALLY eliminated already. That means no playoffs this year no how! Since you win games to get to the playoffs, all incentive to win is GONE! If there is no incentive to win, then the opposite must be true(simple logic) WE benefit from losing so you have LINS. A Lin is a loss that is really a win for the team. Every loss at this point puts us in better position to draft another franchise changing player to improve this team. This will be our last trip to the LINZONE for a while because Evans is a star and star players WIN. So while Evans is on the sideline, the Lins need to be racked up and we need to get into the top 5 in Linners! Into the top 5 will bring us a player that will help us next season become Winners! So we root for good play, more playing time for the rookies, and we root for improvement, but not for wins because they hurt the team in the long run! THEREFORE we have LINS !! Better to be Linners this year and Winners next year! If not we will have to rinse and repeat next year and be Linners. It will be harder to be Linners next year with Evans because he isn't a Linner, he's a Winner. So we have to root for LINS this year! Go LINS !!

Now that is as clear as mud right?

P.S. disclaimer - The Kings are gonna go for every win possible, that is their job. No one seriously believes that a team tries to lose. That is why the lottery was created to prevent people from losing into a wining situation (a la the San Antonio Spurs and their 10+ year run with one player!!). BUT if loses are better than wins, I personally wont be sad about loses anymore. I will look at the brighter future and be happy. Losses really get me depressed and so you have to look at the bright side.

 

[VF21]

Blech. Sorry but you people who keep cheering for "lins" need to deal with reality. The Kings front office is doing everything possible to get fans back in the seats. People do NOT pay to see a team not try to win.

We don't have to hope for losses. What we as fans need to do is cheer for our team to win, give them encouragement and hope, and accept that they aren't going to win very many the rest of the year.

This lin and woss stuff is just silly, IMHO. You're trying to mix two different objectives - getting enjoyment from a basketball game you've paid good money to see and building a team for the future for more enjoyment and possibly a title.

Our job is to do the rooting. The front office's job is to build the team for the future.

 

[cstorm]

Blech. Sorry but you people who keep cheering for "lins" need to deal with reality. The Kings front office is doing everything possible to get fans back in the seats. People do NOT pay to see a team not try to win.

We don't have to hope for losses. What we as fans need to do is cheer for our team to win, give them encouragement and hope, and accept that they aren't going to win very many the rest of the year.

This lin and woss stuff is just silly, IMHO. You're trying to mix two different objectives - getting enjoyment from a basketball game you've paid good money to see and building a team for the future for more enjoyment and possibly a title.

Our job is to do the rooting. The front office's job is to build the team for the future.

I believe you mentioned in a discussion about the NBA, Sterns and the Kings that this was a business. If so, as a smart businessman I am going to realize that John Wall in a Kings uniform next year is going to make me millions of dollars and help tremendously in building the fan base. Winning a few games to end this season is going to make me squat.

Continuing the business model; As a Kings fan, I have invested heavily in this stock called "Kings Basketball". I want a return for my investment, but I understand that planning long term will most likely maximum my return (enjoyment). Just a little "reality" from my POV.

Lin Kings, Lin!

 

[VF21]

I just believe most of us are here as fans, not smart businessmen. As such, we root for our team, don't we?

We should have learned our lesson last year. We didn't get Blake Griffith since we didn't get the #1 pick and a number of smart businessmen were ready to leap off a cliff. Think they still feel that way???

What happens in the draft, happens. That's intangible and in the future. Building the confidence of our young team by supporting them is in the now.

but just my personal opinion. I can never root for my team to lose, regardless of the "big picture."

 

[Circa_1985_Fan]

I believe you mentioned in a discussion about the NBA, Sterns and the Kings that this was a business. If so, as a smart businessman I am going to realize that John Wall in a Kings uniform next year is going to make me millions of dollars and help tremendously in building the fan base. Winning a few games to end this season is going to make me squat.

Continuing the business model; As a Kings fan, I have invested heavily in this stock called "Kings Basketball". I want a return for my investment, but I understand that planning long term will most likely maximum my return (enjoyment). Just a little "reality" from my POV.

Lin Kings, Lin!

A John Wall-Tyreke Evans backcourt would not be very progressive, as far as what we're doing here to promote a 'team'. Tyreke would move to SG, and John Wall would need the ball ALOT if he were here...it could be a Stephon Marbury/Minnesota situation all over again. What we need is a bigman to clean up in the middle, and block shots, and grab lots of rebounds...more toughness to clear the lane for our shooters.(who, btw we can sign someone in the offseason with the boatload of $$$ we have too). We will see a whole different team here next season, gone will be Udoka, Noc(probably), May, McGuire, maybe Garcia, and maybe one of our young(soft)bigs. Re-loaded with more of what we need to go with our new young nucleus. John Wall is good, if you're looking for a Allen Iverson/Stephon Marbury type of player, IMO.

 

[cstorm]

A John Wall-Tyreke Evans backcourt would not be very progressive, as far as what we're doing here to promote a 'team'. Tyreke would move to SG, and John Wall would need the ball ALOT if he were here...it could be a Stephon Marbury/Minnesota situation all over again. What we need is a bigman to clean up in the middle, and block shots, and grab lots of rebounds...more toughness to clear the lane for our shooters.(who, btw we can sign someone in the offseason with the boatload of $$$ we have too). We will see a whole different team here next season, gone will be Udoka, Noc(probably), May, McGuire, maybe Garcia, and maybe one of our young(soft)bigs. Re-loaded with more of what we need to go with our new young nucleus. John Wall is good, if you're looking for a Allen Iverson/Stephon Marbury type of player, IMO.

I agree. I was using Wall because he would sell more jerseys.
Turner, Cousins or Favors would be my choice. (All three would be even better!)

 

[cstorm]

I just believe most of us are here as fans, not smart businessmen. As such, we root for our team, don't we?

We should have learned our lesson last year. We didn't get Blake Griffith since we didn't get the #1 pick and a number of smart businessmen were ready to leap off a cliff. Think they still feel that way???

What happens in the draft, happens. That's intangible and in the future. Building the confidence of our young team by supporting them is in the now.

but just my personal opinion. I can never root for my team to lose, regardless of the "big picture."

See part 2 of my business analogy. As a fan I see the long term benefit to maximizing our draft potential over the enjoyment of beating the Clippers in a meaningless game.

As far as last year, we got Tyreke! That would not have happened had we picked 8th or 9th.

 

[bajaden]

I'll tell you how I approach every game. While I'm watching the game, I'm cheering and rooting for my team to win. It probably wouldn't matter if logic told me that it would best for them to lose, because in the heat of battle my brain only allows the idea of winning to enter. But after the game, and if its a game that we lost, I find comfort in the fact that were a little closer to a good draft pick.

So you see. In my twisted mind, its a win/win for me. If we win the game, I'm happy. But if we lose the game, then in my twisted way, I'm still happy. It helps to drink a few cervesa's as well. Maybe have a couple of shrimp with cocktail sauce. Or my favorite, coconut shrimp.. Gotta go, getting hungry..

 

[dbfish]

Keep the lins coming baby!!!!

Seriously though, I hate seeing the team lose just like everyone else, but we need to think about the bigger picture. A few more losses this year could be the difference between getting a Tyreke Evans vs a Jordan Hill. I know it's the lotto and nothing is guaranteed, but a few extra wins doesn't do anything for us either.

I sure would love to see Derek Favors in a Kings uni next season, for that to happen we need a top 4 pick.

That's basically what I'm saying. Love to see the Kings win, but now tha the playoffs are out of the question and seeing the young developing talent already on the roster, LINS can make a huge difference in the future of the Kings.
The difference between getting a 1 thru 5 pick and a 6 thru 10 pick can be huge.
Go Kings. Play hard. Lin.

 

[Larry89]

Different situation. Webb was 26 when he came over. Vlade of course 30. You hoped you could be good for a long long time. Forever in Kings years given our history. But it was always going to be capped at 8-10 years max even if it was best case.

Now when you've got a 20 year old superstar in the making...its really just silly some of the implications. In 15 years the year will be 2025. 2025! And Reke will still only be 35. Probably starting to decline finally after a decade+ of dominance. And 15 years of your life will have gone by -- probably 1/4 to 1/3 of your adult life as a Kings fan. We just aren't going to be back in that top pick position forever and ever. And unfortunately by the time we finally do the whole new breed of fans around here, if there is a here, will have to start all over at understanding the necessity of getting bad to get good. All these lessons will be ancient, and I do mean, ancient history. The story of the original Golden Era's rise and fall will be as distant to them as the very first Kings team after it moved to Sacramento is to us today.

was this supposed to be depressing or uplifting?

 

[VF21]

I'll tell you how I approach every game. While I'm watching the game, I'm cheering and rooting for my team to win. It probably wouldn't matter if logic told me that it would best for them to lose, because in the heat of battle my brain only allows the idea of winning to enter. But after the game, and if its a game that we lost, I find comfort in the fact that were a little closer to a good draft pick.

So you see. In my twisted mind, its a win/win for me. If we win the game, I'm happy. But if we lose the game, then in my twisted way, I'm still happy. It helps to drink a few cervesa's as well. Maybe have a couple of shrimp with cocktail sauce. Or my favorite, coconut shrimp.. Gotta go, getting hungry..

That works for me.



And cstorm? If you're sitting in the stands, which is what the Kings really need right now, I can pretty much hope that you're not looking at the big picture. And I can pretty much guarantee you won't have spent the money on tickets to go watch them lose.

But we can agree to disagree on intangibles like this. I believe the bottom line is we both are Kings fans and want them to be the best they possibly can.