Competitive fire

Kingster

Hall of Famer
#1
The inability to sustain competitive fire is very frustrating with this team. It's also somewhat mystifying why we see the ups and downs. It's hard for me to believe the problem is intellectual. If a player knows what he should do against Miami, he should know what he needs to do against Detroit. It seems like it's more of an emotional problem, and I don't know the answer to that one other than getting some different players who are tougher, physically and mentally, and willing to consistently submerge their egos to the goal of winning.
 
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VF21

#KingsFansForever
Staff member
#2
Bagley may also be out. He was getting treatment on his foot today, not practicing, per Walton. So I'm not getting my hopes hope on Bagley against Chicago.:( Walton did leave the possibility he could play, despite the fact he did not practice today.

The inability to sustain competitive fire is very frustrating with this team. It's also somewhat mystifying why we see the ups and downs. It's hard for me to believe the problem is intellectual. If a player knows what he should do against Miami, he should know what he needs to do against Detroit. It seems like it's more of an emotional problem, and I don't know the answer to that one other than getting some different players who are tougher, physically and mentally, and willing to consistently submerge their egos to the goal of winning.
Bingo.
 
#3
Bagley may also be out. He was getting treatment on his foot today, not practicing, per Walton. So I'm not getting my hopes hope on Bagley against Chicago.:( Walton did leave the possibility he could play, despite the fact he did not practice today.

The inability to sustain competitive fire is very frustrating with this team. It's also somewhat mystifying why we see the ups and downs. It's hard for me to believe the problem is intellectual. If a player knows what he should do against Miami, he should know what he needs to do against Detroit. It seems like it's more of an emotional problem, and I don't know the answer to that one other than getting some different players who are tougher, physically and mentally, and willing to consistently submerge their egos to the goal of winning.
This was evident when the players fell apart last season when Shumpert left. In reality, no matter how popular Shump was in the locker room, it should not have affected the team that much on the court.
 

Kingster

Hall of Famer
#4
I just talked to Christie on the radio. He said it's mental toughness and that such toughness can be inculcated in players over time through the boredom and agony of drills. That may be so, but I made the point that with Bjelica, who is 30 or 31 years old, you see a huge swing in defensive intensity from game to game. You would think that those drills would have made an impression on him by now. Furthermore, I said that it may be the Kings are going to have to look at getting more players that are innately competitive. Grant assured me that the Kings are looking at all options right now.
 
#5
I just talked to Christie on the radio. He said it's mental toughness and that such toughness can be inculcated in players over time through the boredom and agony of drills. That may be so, but I made the point that with Bjelica, who is 30 or 31 years old, you see a huge swing in defensive intensity from game to game. You would think that those drills would have made an impression on him by now. Furthermore, I said that it may be the Kings are going to have to look at getting more players that are innately competitive. Grant assured me that the Kings are looking at all options right now.
Looking at what options finding players that are tough and less ego centric? Front office change?
 

VF21

#KingsFansForever
Staff member
#6
MOD NOTE: The discussion about competitive fire has been split out from the Bulls game thread.
 

kingsboi

Hall of Famer
#9
Agreed but we kind of Had it all year. There was a stretch we were playing well and in the hunt and then poof
poof injuries occurred at the time and then you implemented your two cornerstones back into the mix and it's been nothing but a losing streak after losing streak. The team is simply not assembled properly and Luke is not the coach for this franchise but can't do much about it right now.
 
#10
to be honest, it's difficult to maintain competitive fire when all you do is lose. that wears on a player(s) over time
they don't even have the competitive fire necessary at the very beginning of games, so thats an excuse i just refuse to accept. They aren't good enough to play down to the competition or "flipping the switch", and yet ... that's all they've been doing all season long.
 

VF21

#KingsFansForever
Staff member
#11
I do see that fire in some players most if not all the time. Holmes, for example, is a given. I'd add Fox, Bjelica, Bogs and Bagley to the list, along with Giles. (I'm talking competitive fire, not effectiveness). Yogi has it. JJ seems to have it. I'm not gonna address Bazemore or Tolliver, since they're too new.

As I write this, I'm realizing I consciously avoided listing one player... sigh.
 
#12
poof injuries occurred at the time and then you implemented your two cornerstones back into the mix and it's been nothing but a losing streak after losing streak. The team is simply not assembled properly and Luke is not the coach for this franchise but can't do much about it right now.
One way to look at it. Another is that once defenses keyed in on Buddy and Barnes stopped making shots, the team started losing.
 

kingsboi

Hall of Famer
#13
they don't even have the competitive fire necessary at the very beginning of games, so thats an excuse i just refuse to accept. They aren't good enough to play down to the competition or "flipping the switch", and yet ... that's all they've been doing all season long.
not just this season but we've seen it last season too that the Kings post All-Star break lacked the fire and desire so this isn't solely just this season that we are witnessing this
 
#14
The inability to sustain competitive fire is very frustrating with this team. It's also somewhat mystifying why we see the ups and downs. It's hard for me to believe the problem is intellectual. If a player knows what he should do against Miami, he should know what he needs to do against Detroit. It seems like it's more of an emotional problem, and I don't know the answer to that one other than getting some different players who are tougher, physically and mentally, and willing to consistently submerge their egos to the goal of winning.
It's not mystifying at all. It's coaching and leadership. And the leadership starts up top. Like, all the way up top.

It's not the players. They were fine last year. Y'all need to stop buying the BS excuses the FO is trying to sell you.
 

VF21

#KingsFansForever
Staff member
#15
It's not mystifying at all. It's coaching and leadership. And the leadership starts up top. Like, all the way up top.

It's not the players. They were fine last year. Y'all need to stop buying the BS excuses the FO is trying to sell you.
It's not the front office out there on the court night after night. It's the players. When you see them start out playing hard but falling apart during the game, that's not the front office. That's the players.

Not sure what "excuses" you think the FO is trying to "sell" but what I see on the court is a lack of intensity. That's not the front office. That's the players.

Is the front office perfect? Oh, hell no but when you see a team blow lead after lead after lead, that's not on the front office.
 
#16
Our core rotation at SG and SF is playing gutless and low IQ basketball.

Barnes is invisible two games out of every three, and yet he somehow avoids all of the criticism WCS got for being the same kind of undependable. Bogi can get hot, but that just leads to him playing even dumber and more selfish than usual, and it can't be any fun to share the court with Buddy as he jacks brick after brick and then blows it on defense.*

We also really really miss Mr. Holmes. How quickly we forget that dude was our MVP during the competitive stretch. He actually plays like he gives a damn, and that rubs off on other players.

*Buddy, Barnes, and (healthy) Bogi all looked better under Joerger. At least on one side of the court. Luke did come here with a reputation of being a sub par offensive coach.... so there's that.
 
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#19
If you go out and don't give any energy then you don't care about this team.

It's as simple as that for me.

At the very least you can show effort.
 
#20
It's not the front office out there on the court night after night. It's the players. When you see them start out playing hard but falling apart during the game, that's not the front office. That's the players.

Not sure what "excuses" you think the FO is trying to "sell" but what I see on the court is a lack of intensity. That's not the front office. That's the players.

Is the front office perfect? Oh, hell no but when you see a team blow lead after lead after lead, that's not on the front office.
It's mainly on the coach. They played hard last year for Joerger. What changed this year?

The FO made the coaching change. The FO also brought in all these players you're complaining about. Almost all of this has to do with the FO.

Show me any organization with bad management and I'll show you employees that don't work as hard for said bad management. In my opinion, that is exactly what's going on here
 

Kingster

Hall of Famer
#22
to be honest, it's difficult to maintain competitive fire when all you do is lose. that wears on a player(s) over time
Agreed. And that point was made by Christie. It's tough to be tough when you're on a long losing streak, but that's what you have to find within yourself to finally start winning again.
 
#23
It's mainly on the coach. They played hard last year for Joerger. What changed this year?

The FO made the coaching change. The FO also brought in all these players you're complaining about. Almost all of this has to do with the FO.

Show me any organization with bad management and I'll show you employees that don't work as hard for said bad management. In my opinion, that is exactly what's going on here
I'm not happy with the FO and some of the decisions they've made (especially on the subject of Harry Giles). But you blaming them for all our problems on the court is going too far. We have talent. We don't have chemistry. Who's fault is that? You're going to say "FO!" I'm going to say it's everyone's fault. Imagine a team winning a championship and then someone says "it's all because of the FO." Or "it's all because of the players." Or "it's all because of the coaching staff." Those opinions are all going too far because, in reality, it's all of those things and more that contribute to winning a championship. You're right to call out the FO. But methinks you're just going too far in suggesting that's it's all (and only) their fault.
(Yes, I realize you did say "almost all.")
 

Kingster

Hall of Famer
#24
It's mainly on the coach. They played hard last year for Joerger. What changed this year?

The FO made the coaching change. The FO also brought in all these players you're complaining about. Almost all of this has to do with the FO.

Show me any organization with bad management and I'll show you employees that don't work as hard for said bad management. In my opinion, that is exactly what's going on here
There is really a false revisionist history going on here with Joerger. The Kings started fast with Joerger and then went progressively downhill after mid-year, which is what you would expect of a team that was pace, pace, pace. They were .400 their last 20 games, and they had a complete lineup for most of that 20 games. The last 16 games were played with Fox, Bagley, and the rest of the crew, which at this point Walton would probably cut off his right arm for.
 

bajaden

Hall of Famer
#25
It's not the front office out there on the court night after night. It's the players. When you see them start out playing hard but falling apart during the game, that's not the front office. That's the players.

Not sure what "excuses" you think the FO is trying to "sell" but what I see on the court is a lack of intensity. That's not the front office. That's the players.

Is the front office perfect? Oh, hell no but when you see a team blow lead after lead after lead, that's not on the front office.
I sort of agree and disagree with you. I mean your right, Vlade isn't out there balling, and neither is Walton. Hey we might be better if they were, but at the same time, management and coaching is responsible for what you see on the court. If they weren't, you wouldn't need a coach or a GM. There's a reason a team like the Spurs keeps making the playoff's year after year. That reason could be that they know what their doing.

Having said that, it's tough to pass judgement on Walton (I personally have) in his first season with all the injuries the Kings have had. So I'll cut them some slack because of that. But Kingster brings up a good point. Effort! In the last game I didn't see the effort, the fire, the fight that's necessary for a team that's struggling the way they are. I've been on losing teams, but I loved playing the game so much, that didn't matter when I stepped on the field. On that given day, in my mind, we were going to win, and I was going to have fun winning.

I have no understanding of what goes on in the mind of an athlete who is just mailing it in, but I don't want him on my team. He or she, is a loser, period! It's been my experience that you either have that fire in your belly, or you don't. And if you don't, no one can put it there. All good and great players love playing the game. Believe it or not, that's the number one reason they play. They freaking love it, and they love the fact that they can do it for a living. If you don't love playing the game, you'll never reach your potential, you'll never have that fire in your belly, and please, get off my team.
 
#26
There is really a false revisionist history going on here with Joerger. The Kings started fast with Joerger and then went progressively downhill after mid-year, which is what you would expect of a team that was pace, pace, pace. They were .400 their last 20 games, and they had a complete lineup for most of that 20 games. The last 16 games were played with Fox, Bagley, and the rest of the crew, which at this point Walton would probably cut off his right arm for.
Chill with the facts we don’t talk about the second half let alone Joerger a beef every he goes. Or the fact that he’d be begging Minnesota for that job right now if he were still coaching us
 
#27
Also whatever happened to holding the players accountable is blaming the coach the new thing we bitches about Joerger and Malone too. How about Fox plays with fire more often and not ever other game play like a damn all star young guys like Morant/Trae are doing it what about him. He’s our alleged franchise player hold him to a higher standard. Buddy is a clown period, it’s never his fault argues with players and coaches every game if multiple players are coming at you maybe it’s you not everyone else, The faster he’s out of here the better. Bagley can’t stay on the floor and when he does he’s average although he did look good vs Minaj. We’re stuck with Barnes mediocre ass for the future it was hilarious seeing some laugh at Dallas for throwing him away cause he had a good stretch like that eliminated his career output.
 

VF21

#KingsFansForever
Staff member
#29
They didn’t play hard the last 20 games under Joeger. And Joeger and Buddy had beef too.

I think it is the lack of a true Alpha amongst players - plus organizational disarray that has hurt us.

I’m interested in finally hearing the real story behind Chris Granger leaving.
Me too.