Come fly with us, Birdman:

[vikinginferno]

As an aside, was I the only who noticed that Birdman was NOT terribly effective defensively in this series? Not physical and never got his body on Pau at all. Beggars cannot necessarily be choosers however.

I definitely have. People see these amazing blocks, but many don't see how bad he plays man to man. He was getting pushed around by Pau Gasol, who is softer than pudding. He doesn't seem to have that high of a bball IQ and sometimes doesn't know where to go. Even when he gets the block, many times it goes to the other team for an easy bucket.

 

[bajaden]

I definitely have. People see these amazing blocks, but many don't see how bad he plays man to man. He was getting pushed around by Pau Gasol, who is softer than pudding. He doesn't seem to have that high of a bball IQ and sometimes doesn't know where to go. Even when he gets the block, many times it goes to the other team for an easy bucket.

I'm sorry. I watched Denver play a lot this year, especially after they aquired Billups, who I love.. You make Anderson sound like a peice of crap that can't even play basketball. Number one, if he was able to outplay Pau Gasol, he would be a star in the league, just like Gasol is, who in my humble opinion is not as soft as you make him out to be. Gasol does get inside and bang with the big boys. He's averaged just under 19 points a game and just under 9 rebounds a game. He also blocks just under 2 blocks a game. No he's not Shaq, but he's hardly chopped liver.

So if we can be real here, were talking about a back up center on the cheap (hopefully) that can come in and give the team 15 or 20 minutes a game. Someone that can grab rebounds, block some shots and play some defense. Whether you like Anderson or not, every game I saw during the season, he changed the way the other team was playing because of his shotblocking ability. A stat that he was second in the league in.

Would you want the Kings to draft Thabeet? Do you think he'll have a higher basketball IQ than Anderson does right now. My god, if your that critical of Anderson then I can't wait to see your opinion of Thabeet.

 

[vikinginferno]

I'm sorry. I watched Denver play a lot this year, especially after they aquired Billups, who I love.. You make Anderson sound like a peice of crap that can't even play basketball. Number one, if he was able to outplay Pau Gasol, he would be a star in the league, just like Gasol is, who in my humble opinion is not as soft as you make him out to be. Gasol does get inside and bang with the big boys. He's averaged just under 19 points a game and just under 9 rebounds a game. He also blocks just under 2 blocks a game. No he's not Shaq, but he's hardly chopped liver.

So if we can be real here, were talking about a back up center on the cheap (hopefully) that can come in and give the team 15 or 20 minutes a game. Someone that can grab rebounds, block some shots and play some defense. Whether you like Anderson or not, every game I saw during the season, he changed the way the other team was playing because of his shotblocking ability. A stat that he was second in the league in.

Would you want the Kings to draft Thabeet? Do you think he'll have a higher basketball IQ than Anderson does right now. My god, if your that critical of Anderson then I can't wait to see your opinion of Thabeet.

He's an amazing shotblocker and a pretty good rebounder, but I just don't like seeing him play defense pretty much only to try and get a block. When he gets posted up, he doesn't play very well and I would much rather have a guy that plays very good post defense than shotblocking. Also at his age I don't see him being too effective for too much longer and by the time we get good, he definitely won't be nearly as effective with his style of play.

I'm not overly enamored with Thabeet either, but there are some big differences. Thabeet is much younger first of all. Also, he doesn't overcommit to trying to get blocks.

He just would not fit at all with our team and we need young pieces at this time in our rebuild.

 

[steelevt]

I definitely have. People see these amazing blocks, but many don't see how bad he plays man to man. He was getting pushed around by Pau Gasol, who is softer than pudding. He doesn't seem to have that high of a bball IQ and sometimes doesn't know where to go. Even when he gets the block, many times it goes to the other team for an easy bucket.

wow i sure am reading a lot of hate for the birdman. he was going up against an all star starting center in gasol. nene or martin didnt exactly defend him that well either, or odom for that matter. why would u expect a second team role player to shut down gasol. his role was to get some blocks and rebounds and try to keep the team afloat while the starters rested. in some of the games he did just that. i think the OP's point is if we could get him at a good price, he would be a good addition in making a team deeper. no one expect him to somehow become one of the best centers in the league or defensive player of the year.

 

[hearns]

I definitely have. People see these amazing blocks, but many don't see how bad he plays man to man. He was getting pushed around by Pau Gasol, who is softer than pudding.

I want this kind of soft players on the Kings. I think Martin and Nene are considered super physical and aggressive shot down defenders, and see what happened against a player softer than pudding: shot down Gasol to 17.5/12.3/3.5/2.3 with 63.3% FG .

 

[fnordius]

If he were 8 or 10 years younger, I'd be all for it. But he turns 31 in about a month. I'd be neutral on a cheap contract of 1-2 years, but hostile to anything more than that.

Can we get Thabeet instead?

 

[bajaden]

If he were 8 or 10 years younger, I'd be all for it. But he turns 31 in about a month. I'd be neutral on a cheap contract of 1-2 years, but hostile to anything more than that.

Can we get Thabeet instead?

That was basicly what I was proposing. Don't get me wrong. I would love to have a great young defensive backup center for about a 1.5 mil a year. For the life of me, I just can't figure out who that would be.

 

[Gary]

I would love to have the Birdman here, but being 31 years old he will probably be better on a contender off the bench.

Also... what's with comparing him to Amundson and Williams? He's about 500000000x better than both of them combined.

 

[kingsnation]

But again, this isn't about Justin Williams being Birdman's equal. It's about the Kings passing up scrubs/role players who can provide that physical rebounding and defense inside. Even if Birdman wanted to come to Sac, I doubt they would entertain that option in free agency.

I really think you need to stop putting role players and scrubs in the same category.

 

[fnordius]

I really think you need to stop putting role players and scrubs in the same category.

Role players usually start out as scrubs. Justin may be off in Israel, following in Maceo Baston's footsteps, but what about that other defender we waived at the same time? Denver's really gotten a lot more than their money's worth (under $1M) out of Dahntay. He's become a role player. Given some time, Justin, who started playing basketball at a late age, may become one himself. Or maybe not. But the line's not clear.

And it goes both ways. Kenny Thomas used to be a role player.

 

[Smills91]

I liek Gortat better than Anderson personally as a 'cheaper' free agent signing to play behind Hawes as a defensive, energy guy at the 5.

 

[Entity]

Birdman is 1 wrong medication away from being banned from the NBA for life. His problem isn't steriods, or growth hormones or diet pills. His is the heavy narcs. Other than that hell yeah I'll take him.

 

[Kingster]

I'm sure it is. But a player of his type is what we are discussing, and that's what the Kings could use. A big off the bench who can rebound and block, and not much else. This team needs toughness and those types of players add toughness and energy. Lou Amundson, who worked out with the Kings with Justin, is now providing that energy and hustle to the Suns, where he proved to be a nice addition after Amare went down.

I'd rather have Ike. He can score in the post, and he has better strength for defending in the post than the Birdman. He's just as tough as the Birdman. Also, the Birdman's drug history scares me. You never know if he's going to go off the wagon...

 

[Bricklayer]

I'd rather have Ike. He can score in the post, and he has better strength for defending in the post than the Birdman. He's just as tough as the Birdman. Also, the Birdman's drug history scares me. You never know if he's going to go off the wagon...

Ike cannot defend the paint. That's the issue. We desperately, desperately need somebody who can defend the paint. Not stand behind his own man. Fly around, block shots, and intimidate the scores of drivers running circles around our perimeter defenders. Its one of the most important functions in all of basketball, and we are a joke at it.

 

[Showtime]

Ike cannot defend the paint. That's the issue. We desperately, desperately need somebody who can defend the paint. Not stand behind his own man. Fly around, block shots, and intimidate the scores of drivers running circles around our perimeter defenders. Its one of the most important functions in all of basketball, and we are a joke at it.

^ agree, and man to man post defense becomes less and less relevant when one of the biggest problems the Kings have is perimeter penetration. I don't care if Ike is the best man-to-man post defender in the league, but if the 1-3 positions are getting to the basket at will, the team needs an inside help defender.

 

[Kingster]

Ike cannot defend the paint. That's the issue. We desperately, desperately need somebody who can defend the paint. Not stand behind his own man. Fly around, block shots, and intimidate the scores of drivers running circles around our perimeter defenders. Its one of the most important functions in all of basketball, and we are a joke at it.

If you've been watching the playoffs, you know Birdman is weak in the post. Ike is definitely stronger. Now if you're looking for a weakside defensive guy, then yes, Birdman is superior. But for a guy to just stand in there and hold his ground against centers, Birdman is quite weak. So maybe we need Ike and Birdman to cover the bases...

 

[bajaden]

If you've been watching the playoffs, you know Birdman is weak in the post. Ike is definitely stronger. Now if you're looking for a weakside defensive guy, then yes, Birdman is superior. But for a guy to just stand in there and hold his ground against centers, Birdman is quite weak. So maybe we need Ike and Birdman to cover the bases...

In a perfect world where money doesn't count against the cap I would be happy with that. It would give nice depth and the ability to match up with a lot of different offenses. Not going to happen though.

 

[Kingster]

In a perfect world where money doesn't count against the cap I would be happy with that. It would give nice depth and the ability to match up with a lot of different offenses. Not going to happen though.

I really think Greene can be a pretty good weak side defender. He's already shown he can come quick from the weak side to get blocks. With more seasoning, he could be pretty good in that area, and definitely has more potential on O than Birdman. So, that's why I'd take Ike over Birdman. Currently we don't have anybody nearly as strong in the post as Ike. (Hopefully, in a couple of years Spencer will get there).

 

[CaminoChaos]

If our guards would somewhat stay in front of there guy on the perimeter we wouldn't need a shotblocker.

I believe if Hawes gets a little stronger we'll be fine. Kings are one of the VERY few teams that have BOTH of there Starting bigs in the Top 50 in Blocks/per48. I believe that our stating front court would be fine if our guards played better defense.

 

[Kingster]

If our guards would somewhat stay in front of there guy on the perimeter we wouldn't need a shotblocker.

I believe if Hawes gets a little stronger we'll be fine. Kings are one of the VERY few teams that have BOTH of there Starting bigs in the Top 50 in Blocks/per48. I believe that our stating front court would be fine if our guards played better defense.

I agree. That's why I'm hoping we'll draft a pg who has the potential to be very good defensively.

 

[Bricklayer]

You know, there have been times and places in history when making a statement that your 1.2blk a game a center and your 0.7blk a game power forward, anchoring the worst defense in the NBA, for a team that may well have allowed more points in the paint than any other team in the league on the way to being ranked 24th of 30 teams in shotblocking, would be just fine if the center got a little stronger...would have resulted in them locking you up. Probably right next to the guy who thought the solution was to hire a 6'0" PG to solve the problem.

Meanwhile in the NBA Finals the #6 team in the league in shotblocking, anchored by the league leader and Defensive Player of the Year and having just knocked off the #7 team in the league in shotblocking, faces off with the #10 team in the league in shotblocking, who would have been higher had their 7'1" center played more than half the season, and who just eliminated the #2 team in the league in shotblocking. The winner of the faceoff getting to take home the trophy annually won by teams anchored by Garnett/Perkins, Duncan, Shaq, Big Ben, Admiral etc. etc. etc.

But I'm sure if Spencer just gets a little stronger we'll be right there. Right there.

 

[CaminoChaos]

You know, there have been times and places in history when making a statement that your 1.2blk a game a center and your 0.7blk a game power forward, anchoring the worst defense in the NBA, for a team that may well have allowed more points in the paint than any other team in the league on the way to being ranked 24th of 30 teams in shotblocking, would be just fine if the center got a little stronger...would have resulted in them locking you up. Probably right next to the guy who thought the solution was to hire a 6'0" PG to solve the problem.

Meanwhile in the NBA Finals the #6 team in the league in shotblocking, anchored by the league leader and Defensive Player of the Year and having just knocked off the #7 team in the league in shotblocking, faces off with the #10 team in the league in shotblocking, who would have been higher had their 7'1" center played more than half the season, and who just eliminated the #2 team in the league in shotblocking. The winner of the faceoff getting to take home the trophy annually won by teams anchored by Garnett/Perkins, Duncan, Shaq, Big Ben, Admiral etc. etc. etc.

But I'm sure if Spencer just gets a little stronger we'll be right there. Right there.

All those bigs that you mentioned also had good perimeter defenders limiting the amount of times there guy got into the paint.

The reason we got killed in the paint so much was because our bigs would have to rotate off there man all the time to make up for the guards horrible defense.

 

[TTown Kings]

All those bigs that you mentioned also had good perimeter defenders limiting the amount of times there guy got into the paint.

The reason we got killed in the paint so much was because our bigs would have to rotate off there man all the time to make up for the guards horrible defense.

Not to mention switching on every single pick and roll...

 

[CaminoChaos]

Not to mention switching on every single pick and roll...

Exactly. Martin and Beno couldn't fight through screen if it was made out of toilet paper.

 

[Bricklayer]

All those bigs that you mentioned also had good perimeter defenders limiting the amount of times there guy got into the paint.

The reason we got killed in the paint so much was because our bigs would have to rotate off there man all the time to make up for the guards horrible defense.

If they rotated at all. Not to mention that they could do absolutely nothing once they got there.

 

[SacTownKid]

You know, there have been times and places in history when making a statement that your 1.2blk a game a center and your 0.7blk a game power forward, anchoring the worst defense in the NBA, for a team that may well have allowed more points in the paint than any other team in the league on the way to being ranked 24th of 30 teams in shotblocking, would be just fine if the center got a little stronger...would have resulted in them locking you up. Probably right next to the guy who thought the solution was to hire a 6'0" PG to solve the problem.

Meanwhile in the NBA Finals the #6 team in the league in shotblocking, anchored by the league leader and Defensive Player of the Year and having just knocked off the #7 team in the league in shotblocking, faces off with the #10 team in the league in shotblocking, who would have been higher had their 7'1" center played more than half the season, and who just eliminated the #2 team in the league in shotblocking. The winner of the faceoff getting to take home the trophy annually won by teams anchored by Garnett/Perkins, Duncan, Shaq, Big Ben, Admiral etc. etc. etc.

But I'm sure if Spencer just gets a little stronger we'll be right there. Right there.

Jason has potential, serious potential to be a 3rd big/defense type of player IMO. If he gets his head to catch up with his feet and hands he should be a 1+ bpg player easily. Spencer showed some of his shotblocking potential last year, he did tail off towards the end of the season but when he isn't scared of picking up ticky tack fouls he should be fine. A team that would arguably be "right there" in the thick of things if healthy (and not so worried about free agency) would be the Utah Jazz and they have a PF and C that both block about 1 shot a game COMBINED. Of course, they do have that defensive backup in Milsapp, but we can find that.

 

[CaminoChaos]

If they rotated at all. Not to mention that they could do absolutely nothing once they got there.

We could have Bill Russel back there but it's not going to make a difference if the perimeter defenders let there guys in the paint.

BTW, Golden State and LA Clippers were #1 and #3 repectively in blocks/game. A team good in the blocks catagory doesn't translate into good team defense. The reason those teams suck is because of defense collectively as a team. They both have great shot blocker and one even has last years DPOY.

 

[CaminoChaos]

Jason has potential, serious potential to be a 3rd big/defense type of player IMO. If he gets his head to catch up with his feet and hands he should be a 1+ bpg player easily.

Actually he did averave 1+ blocks after Brad and Mikki left and he saw more minutes.

 

[Bricklayer]

Jason has potential, serious potential to be a 3rd big/defense type of player IMO. If he gets his head to catch up with his feet and hands he should be a 1+ bpg player easily. Spencer showed some of his shotblocking potential last year, he did tail off towards the end of the season but when he isn't scared of picking up ticky tack fouls he should be fine. A team that would arguably be "right there" in the thick of things if healthy (and not so worried about free agency) would be the Utah Jazz and they have a PF and C that both block about 1 shot a game COMBINED. Of course, they do have that defensive backup in Milsapp, but we can find that.

Andrei Kirilenko.

And no, they are not a serious contender. The reason why? They play no defense and can't defend the rim.

As an aside, Jason looked lost, and scared absolutely nobody on defense. He's also not very long and is quite old for a 2nd year player -- not much is going to change. His potential as a shotblocker is very limited. And you are right he might get 1per game in big minutes. 1 per game sucks. Its nothing at all on the defensive intimidation/anchor scale.

 

[Bricklayer]

We could have Bill Russel back there but it's not going to make a difference if the perimeter defenders let there guys in the paint.

BTW, Golden State and LA Clippers were #1 and #3 repectively in blocks/game. A team good in the blocks catagory doesn't translate into good team defense. The reason those teams suck is because of defense collectively as a team. They both have great shot blocker and one even has last years DPOY.

I think you simply fundamentally misunderstand the impact of a shotblocker back there. Not a guy who sometimes blocks shots. A shotblocker. give me Bill Russel on this team and I will shave, with not a single other move made, 5 ppg off of our points against. Easy. Maybe more.

There is no position, no other trait, NOTHING that makes as big a difference on defense. And this foolishness of rather than getting a shotblocker yeah we'll just draft a whole team of perimeter stoppers is just duh. Yeah, that's the better approach -- jsut draft 15 guys to do the work of 1. You will eventually need 1, maybe even 2. But the heart and sole is the backline. The backline players, by their very position ont he court, not to mention by being bigger than anybody else (and thus able to intimidate anybody), make your whole team better. Nobody else does that. You give me Bill Russel, not only does he directly block 3 or 4 shots or whatever. Not only does he intimidate or alter another 6 or 8. But he makes every single perimeter defender better by his mere presence back there. Everybody gets to crowd their man an extra foot. Everybody can gamble. Because they all know there is a goalie behind them. You have 1 1/2 men guarding every one of their perimeter players, and a lot of guys won't even challenge and just settle for jumpers.

Listening to Jerry Reynolds on shotblocking will end up leaving you with a career record very much like his.