Collison....

[Gary]

Anyone watching him and wishing he was wearing a Kings uni this year? Ugh, who would have ever thought.. He wasn't even supposed to be better than Holiday or even Westbrook (after the year Westbrook filled in for Collison when he was injured)..



Being that New Orleans has two PGs that are able to lead a team do you think they hang one out for trade bait come draft time in order for them to build a bit through the draft? I watched his 20 assist night yesterday... Wow.. He looked pretty sharp.. Does not play like a rookie at all.



Does not have the rookie jitters. If Paul had been injured all year does anyone think he would have a place in the ROY balloting?



22ppg 8.8apg 3.7rpg Those stats above are definite ROY stats..

 

[gunks]

I'd rather have Reke.

Definately impressed though, at least with his statlines...I've yet to actually SEE him play. Hard to ignore a 20 assist game though.

 

[Gary]

I'd rather have Reke.

Definately impressed though, at least with his statlines...I've yet to actually SEE him play. Hard to ignore a 20 assist game though.

Was thinking they could play together in the same back court. Collison has played with players that needed the ball to be effective i.e. Westbrook and Holiday (also Love to a lesser extent), and Farmar.











I would rather have Reke too.

 

[jalfa]

Nothing against Collisson, he's definitely great. But that 20 assist game is a bit suspect.

 

[Bricklayer]

Nothing against Collisson, he's definitely great. But that 20 assist game is a bit suspect.

Yeah, here's a stat for you:

Darren Collison home games: assists 6.2
Darren Collison road games: assists 3.8

Now there is sometimes a gap between hom eand road production. But that's a bit eye opening. 26.4min per home game, 23.1min on the road. So a little bit can be explained there. But only a little.

Others:

Curry
Home: 6.0ast
Away: 4.8ast

Jennings
Home: 6.0ast
Away: 6.1ast

Evans
Home: 5.3ast
Away: 5.6ast


So that Collison number looks pretty shaky. Actually that Curry number looks alittel shaky too, especially given how desperate that organization has been in promoting his ROY canidacy. But 6.2 to 3.8? That's not even the same player.

 

[Grawlix]

Collison is a solid player and he looks amazing out there.

However, he is benefiting from a more talented team than most teams with rookie starters with the exception of maybe the Bucks (!). The Hornets would likely make their shots even if no one passed them the ball.

I see Collison as an Andre Miller type of player. A solid talented PG with the skills to be a player for a long career, but maybe not an all-star.

 

[Kingstime]

Collison is a solid player and he looks amazing out there.

However, he is benefiting from a more talented team than most teams with rookie starters with the exception of maybe the Bucks (!). The Hornets would likely make their shots even if no one passed them the ball.

I see Collison as an Andre Miller type of player. A solid talented PG with the skills to be a player for a long career, but maybe not an all-star.

Exactly. Collison is VERY talented but let's not look past the team he is on.

New Orleans has a solid squad and a couple years ago were nearly annointed the next big thing in the NBA. But the fact that they refuse to get somebody in the backcourt with CP3 that can create their own shot haunts them.

However they still have David West and a bunch of other talented players at his disposal as well.

Also watch out for Marcus Thornton I see him having more of a career than Collison in the long run IMO.

 

[Capt. Factorial]

Yeah, here's a stat for you:

Darren Collison home games: assists 6.2
Darren Collison road games: assists 3.8

Now there is sometimes a gap between hom eand road production. But that's a bit eye opening. 26.4min per home game, 23.1min on the road. So a little bit can be explained there. But only a little.

Others:

Curry
Home: 6.0ast
Away: 4.8ast

Jennings
Home: 6.0ast
Away: 6.1ast

Evans
Home: 5.3ast
Away: 5.6ast


So that Collison number looks pretty shaky. Actually that Curry number looks alittel shaky too, especially given how desperate that organization has been in promoting his ROY canidacy. But 6.2 to 3.8? That's not even the same player.

Yep. Actually, the whole assist fudging thing is pretty endemic. A while ago I did a plot of home/away assists per 36 minutes for the top 50 assist players of last season. Here's the plot:

It's pretty obvious (and statistically significant) that players get more assists at home than on the road. Looks like only 14 of 50 guys had fewer assists at home. One of the two outliers at the top is Chris Paul (of the Hornets! Hmm!) who had 1.7 more assists at home than on the road. Collison for the season has even a bigger split - 2.6 more at home, and his totals are lower, resulting in a 144% inflation of Collison's assists at home (Paul "only" had a 118% inflation last year). By comparison, Curry has a 116% assist inflation in terms of per-minute stats.

 

[bajaden]

Collison is a solid player and he looks amazing out there.

However, he is benefiting from a more talented team than most teams with rookie starters with the exception of maybe the Bucks (!). The Hornets would likely make their shots even if no one passed them the ball.

I see Collison as an Andre Miller type of player. A solid talented PG with the skills to be a player for a long career, but maybe not an all-star.

Can he defend like Miller? I don't want to throw a wet blanket on this discussion, but I would like to see what he can do when he plays an entire year. Not saying he wouldn't be successful, I just have more of a wait and see attitude. And to be fair, I take the same attitude when someone starts out playing poorly.

 

[Grawlix]

Can he defend like Miller? I don't want to throw a wet blanket on this discussion, but I would like to see what he can do when he plays an entire year. Not saying he wouldn't be successful, I just have more of a wait and see attitude. And to be fair, I take the same attitude when someone starts out playing poorly.

I'll clarify. I don't believe Collison plays like Andre Miller but rather that his ceiling is an Andre Miller type career. You are right that it is too early to tell, but the way he handles the ball and executes the offense will keep him in the league for awhile, with few if any accolades.

 

[bajaden]

I'll clarify. I don't believe Collison plays like Andre Miller but rather that his ceiling is an Andre Miller type career. You are right that it is too early to tell, but the way he handles the ball and executes the offense will keep him in the league for awhile, with few if any accolades.

I would agree..

 

[Henkel]

I though he was going to be a bust. From what I saw Farmar looked like the better of the two while playing in the same system at UCLA and Farmar is a pretty average nba player. Shows what I know.

I think he would be a nice fit with Reke. Not a great outside shooter but everything else he brings to the table seems to compliment Evans game. I wonder what we would have to give up?

 

[Arby's Roast Beef]

Just goes to show you that speed/athleticism with passing ability kills. With greater floor spacing and a penchant for fast paced offense in the NBA he can simply thrive. Like Russell Westbrook.

I just traded him in my fantasy league though thinking that CP3's return would cause his numbers to go down. He's definitely a ball dominant guy and I doubt he can play off the ball with CP3, and CP3 is such a minutes sponge as well. It would be interesting to see that dynamic. By the way, for Danilo Gallinari.

 

[DoDiGaG0]

Collison's D is absolutely horrid, take that into consideration

might be the worst defender ive seen @ the PG since Bryce Drew

 

[Arby's Roast Beef]

Collison's D is absolutely horrid, take that into consideration

might be the worst defender ive seen @ the PG since Bryce Drew

Man, Bryce Drew was atrocious. I mean, Darren Collison does play bad D, for sure, but to compare him to Drew?

 

[Gary]

I though he was going to be a bust. From what I saw Farmar looked like the better of the two while playing in the same system at UCLA and Farmar is a pretty average nba player. Shows what I know.

I think he would be a nice fit with Reke. Not a great outside shooter but everything else he brings to the table seems to compliment Evans game. I wonder what we would have to give up?

I was seriously thinking the same thing.. Well maybe not bust but I was thinking that guys like Holiday, and Westbrook would be better than he is.

Anyone else think that New Orleans might try to hang him out there around draft time to pick up a low 1st rounder? Being that this is a "big man" draft they might have a reason to do this.

Just seemed like an interesting deal here.. Not sure I would give up a lottery pick for him just yet, but it would be interesting to see what it would take to get a look at him.

That being said has anyone seen Holidays game as of late? Seems he has a couple great games thrown in there. Seems they are playing a 2 combo guard lineup in Philly, with Williams dominating the ball a bit more than Holiday (like they did in UCLA last season with Collison/Holiday) but Holiday seems to be thriving. I cannot wait to see how good Holiday can become.

 

[drogba]

i saw him play a few times.
so first their other guy Thorenton is a great athletic player with a bright future too. and he can score like crazy.
both are not as good as Reke, but they are playing great, and especially collison are a team players who think on passing first.
Collison reminded me Isea Thomas, not Miller, he is lightning quick and a good passer with a soft shot, while Thorenton is very athletic and a good scorer.

 

[bajaden]

i saw him play a few times.
so first their other guy Thorenton is a great athletic player with a bright future too. and he can score like crazy.
both are not as good as Reke, but they are playing great, and especially collison are a team players who think on passing first.
Collison reminded me Isea Thomas, not Miller, he is lightning quick and a good passer with a soft shot, while Thorenton is very athletic and a good scorer.

Thornton was noted for his defense in college. Just goes to show you.

 

[Merdiesel]

Anyone watching him and wishing he was wearing a Kings uni this year? Ugh, who would have ever thought.. He wasn't even supposed to be better than Holiday or even Westbrook (after the year Westbrook filled in for Collison when he was injured)..



Being that New Orleans has two PGs that are able to lead a team do you think they hang one out for trade bait come draft time in order for them to build a bit through the draft? I watched his 20 assist night yesterday... Wow.. He looked pretty sharp.. Does not play like a rookie at all.



Does not have the rookie jitters. If Paul had been injured all year does anyone think he would have a place in the ROY balloting?



22ppg 8.8apg 3.7rpg Those stats above are definite ROY stats..

According to who? Was it the same guy who said Evans would turn out to be another Larry Hughes?

 

[KingsCitizen]

Collison is probably Ramon Sessions 2.0. But I haven't seen him play yet.

 

[Gary]

According to who? Was it the same guy who said Evans would turn out to be another Larry Hughes?

Was the reason Collison stayed in school longer. His draft position was hurting because of Westbrook + his injury, and then when Holiday came along I believe Holiday was #3 or #4 ranked HS player in all of America and was #1 or #2 PG prospect.. People were thinking Collison was going to the NBA, but he did come back, and had a decent year although he and Holiday looked kind of bleh together in regards to chemistry in the back court. There were also smaller issues with his size. If I remember correctly (I love to do amateur scouting BTW) Westbrook was not really sought after out of high school. I believe he was supposed to commit to San Diego State. If you are talking out of High school then yes, Collison was a higher ranked recruit by a large margin. But college wise Both Westbrook, and Holiday entering the draft were players that supposedly had much higher ceilings than Collison. If you do not believe me check virtually every since mock site, and report that goes along with it. I said above I may well be wrong on this, but I think all three should have decent careers.. I just picked Holiday, and Westbrook over Collison.

Who said Evans was Hughes BTW? Was it me in June when I was upset that we got him? If so I do not remember.

 

[Merdiesel]

Was the reason Collison stayed in school longer. His draft position was hurting because of Westbrook + his injury, and then when Holiday came along I believe Holiday was #3 or #4 ranked HS player in all of America and was #1 or #2 PG prospect.. People were thinking Collison was going to the NBA, but he did come back, and had a decent year although he and Holiday looked kind of bleh together in regards to chemistry in the back court. There were also smaller issues with his size. If I remember correctly (I love to do amateur scouting BTW) Westbrook was not really sought after out of high school. I believe he was supposed to commit to San Diego State. If you are talking out of High school then yes, Collison was a higher ranked recruit by a large margin. But college wise Both Westbrook, and Holiday entering the draft were players that supposedly had much higher ceilings than Collison. If you do not believe me check virtually every since mock site, and report that goes along with it. I said above I may well be wrong on this, but I think all three should have decent careers.. I just picked Holiday, and Westbrook over Collison.

Who said Evans was Hughes BTW? Was it me in June when I was upset that we got him? If so I do not remember.

No. Just most of the mock draft sites.

 

[DoDiGaG0]

Man, Bryce Drew was atrocious. I mean, Darren Collison does play bad D, for sure, but to compare him to Drew?

I keep hearing about the kid and have only watched him play 2 times..

his #'s are great and all but he looked horrid on D..probably the worst defender I have seen since Bryce Drew. I thought it may have just been me noticing this or he had an off game or something so I decided to do a little numerical analysis:

Heres what opposing PG's have done in the last 7 games:

Westbrook : 17(7-13)
Parker: 20 (8-12)
Conley: 26(11-18) ** CAREER HIGH
CJ Watson: 12(4-9)
Parker: 18(9-15)
Kidd: 13(5-12)
Nelson: 19(9-14)

thats a combined average of 18 ppg on 65% shooting from the floor

I understood when he was getting backed down by defenders because of his lack of bulk, but for a guy so fast going up and down the court it really blew my mind that Jason Kidd was blowing by him at will..he seems to have really..really..really.. bad defensive fundamentals.. and the type that I don't see ever improving..

take it with a grain of salt and it was just by observation after 2 games..but I'd love to hear some of your opinions..

 

[est.1999]

You gotta take into account that collison played 4 years of college. I believe he played in 2 championship games(?). He has a lot of experience under his belt. Where as a player like Evans only has one year of college. Not a knock on collison at all though, I really like him and his game. I just get te sense that he is what he's going to be which is not bad at all. Just not reke status

 

[bajaden]

I keep hearing about the kid and have only watched him play 2 times..

his #'s are great and all but he looked horrid on D..probably the worst defender I have seen since Bryce Drew. I thought it may have just been me noticing this or he had an off game or something so I decided to do a little numerical analysis:

Heres what opposing PG's have done in the last 7 games:

Westbrook : 17(7-13)
Parker: 20 (8-12)
Conley: 26(11-18) ** CAREER HIGH
CJ Watson: 12(4-9)
Parker: 18(9-15)
Kidd: 13(5-12)
Nelson: 19(9-14)

thats a combined average of 18 ppg on 65% shooting from the floor

I understood when he was getting backed down by defenders because of his lack of bulk, but for a guy so fast going up and down the court it really blew my mind that Jason Kidd was blowing by him at will..he seems to have really..really..really.. bad defensive fundamentals.. and the type that I don't see ever improving..

take it with a grain of salt and it was just by observation after 2 games..but I'd love to hear some of your opinions..

In fairness to Collison the year that UCLA made its last big plunge into the tournament the team was noted for its defense, and Collison was a part of that. He probably should have come out that year because his stock was pretty high, despite Westbrook. At the time there were a lot of questions about Westbrook. The same kind of questions that surrounded Evans when he came out. There were no such questions about Collison. Instead he chose to stay another year and had the bad luck to pick a year where the draft was loaded with very good point guards.

 

[asakkings]

Collison got destroyed by Derrick Rose in the final four game. It wasn't even close, I believe that game was the reason for him staying.

 

[bajaden]

Collison got destroyed by Derrick Rose in the final four game. It wasn't even close, I believe that game was the reason for him staying.

I don't know if that was the reason or not. Westbrook couldn't stop Rose either, so Collison wasn't the only one to blame. It was a great game for Rose though..

 

[Tetsujin]

I don't know if that was the reason or not. Westbrook couldn't stop Rose either, so Collison wasn't the only one to blame. It was a great game for Rose though..

I think Westbrook had the last laugh though as he's become the more effective player on the next level.

 

[Kingster]

Collison got destroyed by Derrick Rose in the final four game. It wasn't even close, I believe that game was the reason for him staying.

Exactly. If the coach would have put Westbrook on Rose, that game could have turned out much differently, and Collison's draft status could have ended up much higher. No doubt in my mind Westbrook could have neutralized Rose.

 

[OnYouLikeGlue]

Watching the Hornets/Nuggets game and just saw Collison get another absolutely absurd assist.

Coming down on a break he attempted to lob a pass to West. The ball was tipped by Billups and West after which it went off the backboard. West gathered in the loose ball and scored the layup and Collison got credited with the assist.

Seriously, how is that score keeper allowed to keep his job.