Cisco fractures right forearm.

[Kingster]

I think what people are failing to remember is this is the Kings we're talking about. While I don't question the use of the physioball - since I've never heard of one bursting before - it would seem that if one ever WAS going to burst it would be on the grounds of the Arco complex.

Sometimes **** happens. This is one of those freak accidents you hear about that make you scratch your head. I'm not about to start criticizing the training staff or questioning their abilities because of something like that.

Not that I'm quoting you King Baller and saying that was your intent; I just know how things sometimes get twisted around.

I'll criticize them. And management. Look, there was just a recent incident, widely reported, about a USC football player that nearly got killed when a 400 lb weight dropped on his neck. Don't you think it might be a teency bit reasonable for the Kings, other pro teams, other college teams, high scools, etc., to review their safety procedures on all of their weight training so everything is given a critical eye for safety? A poster on this board found out about the increased risk of using weights with a physio ball for gawd's sake. Give me a break. Don't these people have brains? It really makes you wonder.

 

[VF21]

I'll criticize them. And management. Look, there was just a recent incident, widely reported, about a USC football player that nearly got killed when a 400 lb weight dropped on his neck. Don't you think it might be a teency bit reasonable for the Kings, other pro teams, other college teams, high scools, etc., to review their safety procedures on all of their weight training so everything is given a critical eye for safety? A poster on this board found out about the increased risk of using weights with a physio ball for gawd's sake. Give me a break. Don't these people have brains? It really makes you wonder.

Whoa, cowboy. Back up that horse just a tad.

I did not say, nor did I even imply, that reviewing safety procedures would be unreasonable. What I was saying is that I don't think we should automatically jump to the conclusion that because this freak accident happened there has to be something wrong with the training regimen or practices.

Give me a break, dude. You're acting as though they were having players practice in the middle of I80 at night in dark jerseys.

 

[Telemachus]

Whoa, cowboy. Back up that horse just a tad.

I did not say, nor did I even imply, that reviewing safety procedures would be unreasonable. What I was saying is that I don't think we should automatically jump to the conclusion that because this freak accident happened there has to be something wrong with the training regimen or practices.

Give me a break, dude. You're acting as though they were having players practice in the middle of I80 at night in dark jerseys.

All I know is that I can count on one finger how many times I have heard of a physioball bursting. When something works 99% of the time (or more), you don't throw it all out because of one accident.

I used to have this problem when I worked making spa covers. One mistake would be made and one of my bosses would want to overall the entire procedure. I would simply point out that it had worked fine for the previous 300 or so we had made. Sometimes things just happen and you have to throw up yours hands and move on.

 

[VF21]

All I know is that I can count on one finger how many times I have heard of a physioball bursting. When something works 99% of the time (or more), you don't throw it all out because of one accident.

Exactly my point.

 

[fnordius]

Not utterly freakish or anything, though.

3,000,000 Fitness Balls Recalled Due to Fall Hazard and Explosions
(4/17/2009)

The U.S. Consumer Product Safety Commission, in cooperation with the firm named below, today announced a voluntary recall of the following consumer product.

Name of Product: Bally Total Fitness, Everlast, Valeo and Body Fit Fitness Balls

Units: About 3 million

Manufacturer: EB Brands, of Yonkers, New York

Hazard: An overinflated fitness ball can unexpectedly burst while in use, causing the user to fall to the floor.

Incidents/Injuries: EB Brands has received 47 reports of fitness balls unexpectedly bursting, including reports of a fracture, and multiple bruises.

Description: This recall involves rubber fitness balls sold in 55-, 65- and 75-cm diameter sizes. The fitness balls were sold with a pump and inflation instructions. The fitness balls were sold in various colors with the Bally Total Fitness, Everlast or Valeo logo printed on the ball.

Sold at: Department stores and fitness retailers nationwide from May 2000 to February 2009 for between $15 and $30.

Manufactured in: China

Remedy: Consumers should contact EB Brands to receive a copy of the updated instructions on how to safely inflate the ball.

Consumer Contact: For additional information, contact EB Brands at (800) 624-5671 between 9 a.m. and 5 p.m. ET Monday through Friday, or visit the firm?s website at www.ebbrands.com

http://www.fit-pro.com/ME2/dirmod.a...0&tier=3&nid=C86843C101644D60A5A41AD8D56197D1

 

[VF21]

Hrm... Very interesting. But I'm still not ready to castigate the Kings over this. The company had 3 million units subject to recall (because of incorrect instructions???) after 47 reports of bursting instances, with multiple bruises and "A FRACTURE" occurring. Not exactly a smoking gun but I do concede it has happened...

This, to me, seems more like the type of situation that led to "do not use while bathing" warnings on hair dryers than anything else.

 

[Showtime]

Sorry about his discomfort, but from a team standpoint, I this is actually helpful. Why? Because Garcia is who he is, and he's not getting any better. By removing him from the lineup, it forces the coach to give time to the younger guys so they can develop. Donte and Casspi could use those minutes instead of giving them to an established player who isn't going to get any better, nor get this team anywhere. They will still be at the bottom of the west, and probably the bottom of the Pacific Division with or without Garcia, but at least the team will give minutes to guys who need to develop.

 

[Gary]

When something works 99% of the time (or more), you don't throw it all out because of one accident.

If that were the case I would have 20 kids instead of 1..

Just kidding.. I don't have any children, but that line made me think back to my sex ed classes lol.

 

[Bricklayer]

All I know is that I can count on one finger how many times I have heard of a physioball bursting. When something works 99% of the time (or more), you don't throw it all out because of one accident.

I used to have this problem when I worked making spa covers. One mistake would be made and one of my bosses would want to overall the entire procedure. I would simply point out that it had worked fine for the previous 300 or so we had made. Sometimes things just happen and you have to throw up yours hands and move on.

Whoa...wait...you used to make spa covers? My mom's got trashed and now she wants to try to make a new one herself. Any professional advice?

 

[Insomniacal Fan]

Hah, you laughed, but now aren't you glad Petrie fortified the SF position? The man can see the future!

 

[Kingster]

Whoa, cowboy. Back up that horse just a tad.

I did not say, nor did I even imply, that reviewing safety procedures would be unreasonable. What I was saying is that I don't think we should automatically jump to the conclusion that because this freak accident happened there has to be something wrong with the training regimen or practices.

Give me a break, dude. You're acting as though they were having players practice in the middle of I80 at night in dark jerseys.

Obviously, there was something wrong with the training procedure. Obviously it was preventable. Obviously, with a modicum of due diligence the Kings org would have stopped such training practices. Does it take a genius trainer to actually google up "safety and physio balls"? Is it really that difficult to review the exercises for injury risk? Hell no. Tell me this - what plastic ball filled with air never pops? Look, if there was a bar bell that broke because of a flaw in the steel, that would be a freak unpreventable accident. This was not.

 

[Kingster]

All I know is that I can count on one finger how many times I have heard of a physioball bursting. When something works 99% of the time (or more), you don't throw it all out because of one accident.

You sure as heck do if thast accident is highly costly. Do you think the Kings are going to allow the same type of exercises with weights on physio balls? Hell no. They just lost a several million dollar asset for four plus months. And there is never a guarantee that asset is going to be the same. Of course they are going to discontinue that exercise. It would just compound their stupidity otherwise.

 

[VF21]

Obviously, there was something wrong with the training procedure. Obviously it was preventable. Obviously, with a modicum of due diligence the Kings org would have stopped such training practices. Does it take a genius trainer to actually google up "safety and physio balls"? Is it really that difficult to review the exercises for injury risk? Hell no. Tell me this - what plastic ball filled with air never pops? Look, if there was a bar bell that broke because of a flaw in the steel, that would be a freak unpreventable accident. This was not.

No, the obvious thing is there is a problem with the ball itself, not the training procedure. If there wasn't some kind of flaw in the apparatus itself, it wouldn't be subject to bursting to begin with. Should the Kings have known? Probably. Did they know and follow proper instructions as issued by the manufacturer? I'd surely hope so. Since THAT would be the due diligence you're speaking about, I still fail to be inclined to join the mob with torches and pitchforks quite yet.

But hey, you and I are not going to agree on this at any point in time so why quibble?

Peace.

 

[Bricklayer]

Accidents do happen people. An odd thing for a lawyer to be saying, I know. But I consider slip and fall personal injury types to be vermin. Sometimes **** just happens, and it sucks, but you move on. Doesn't always have to be a villain.

If it was an old beat up ball which should have been replaced but was not due to finances or some such, sure. I did not even know they could pop, but a professional should. If they were doing something wildly dangerous or explicitly advised against, sure. But without knowing any of that, this is just bad luck. Cisco on a physio ball lifting two barbells is probably still only = Sean May, so unless we are just eliminating any of the bigger guys using them, the weiught should not be extreme (I assume here that they did not have him doing a full on bench press with 4 plates or some such).

 

[Superman]

Accidents do happen people. An odd thing for a lawyer to be saying, I know. But I consider slip and fall personal injury types to be vermin. Sometimes **** just happens, and it sucks, but you move on. Doesn't always have to be a villain.

If it was an old beat up ball which should have been replaced but was not due to finances or some such, sure. I did not even know they could pop, but a professional should. If they were doing something wildly dangerous or explicitly advised against, sure. But without knowing any of that, this is just bad luck. Cisco on a physio ball lifting two barbells is probably still only = Sean May, so unless we are just eliminating any of the bigger guys using them, the weiught should not be extreme (I assume here that they did not have him doing a full on bench press with 4 plates or some such).

I can't imagine that it was just the weight that caused the ball to pop, unless he's throwing up 225 on an exercise ball, and why would anyone do that? The ball would either have to be worn/defective, or something punctured it. They don't just pop. I'm sure they're tested to at least 500 pounds or so.

 

[bajaden]

Interesting, I was watching an episode of the biggest loser that I had recorded from the prior week, and guess what? There was one of the contestants lying on a physio ball lifting weights. I would guess that his personal weight without the dumbells in his hands would have exceeded Cisco's weight all by himself. No insights here! It just appears that type of exercise is fairly common. As Bricky said, sometimes **** happens!

 

[Kingster]

No, the obvious thing is there is a problem with the ball itself, not the training procedure. If there wasn't some kind of flaw in the apparatus itself, it wouldn't be subject to bursting to begin with. Should the Kings have known? Probably. Did they know and follow proper instructions as issued by the manufacturer? I'd surely hope so. Since THAT would be the due diligence you're speaking about, I still fail to be inclined to join the mob with torches and pitchforks quite yet.

The Kings should have known what King Baller found out with a Google search. Here we have so called experts - professionals - with the Kings who didn't do the due diligence of King Baller. Yeah, welcome to the Kings all right...

 

[Bricklayer]

Interesting, I was watching an episode of the biggest loser that I had recorded from the prior week, and guess what? There was one of the contestants lying on a physio ball lifting weights. I would guess that his personal weight without the dumbells in his hands would have exceeded Cisco's weight all by himself. No insights here! It just appears that type of exercise is fairly common. As Bricky said, sometimes **** happens!

I do want to know however is there some reason why just doing that exercise on the traditional bench is unfashionable? Much as I say this was just an accident, you wouldn't catch me dead lifting weights on a giant beach ball. Even apart from the looking like an idiot part I mean. Benches don't pop.

 

[Capt. Factorial]

I do want to know however is there some reason why just doing that exercise on the traditional bench is unfashionable? Much as I say this was just an accident, you wouldn't catch me dead lifting weights on a giant beach ball. Even apart from the looking like an idiot part I mean. Benches don't pop.

My understanding is that doing it on the ball forces you to work your core much harder to maintain balance, so it strengthens core simultaneous with the upper body.

 

[Capt. Factorial]

The Kings should have known what King Baller found out with a Google search. Here we have so called experts - professionals - with the Kings who didn't do the due diligence of King Baller. Yeah, welcome to the Kings all right...

Or you could look at it this way - according to the article Fnordius found (also in a web search), a batch of 3 million physioballs were recalled after reports of just 47 failures. That's 1 in 150,000. And "a" fracture, meaning out of 3 million defective units, there was a 1 in 150,000 chance of failure and one broken bone as a result of failure. Presumably the numbers for non-defective units would be even more favorable. So maybe, just maybe, the Kings training staff had actually considered the chance that such an event might occur and believed that the probability was too low to worry about.

Shoot, your odds of breaking a bone (tearing a tendon, ligament, muscle...) are higher out on the basketball court. Maybe we should stop the games while we review the safety procedures.

Hey, here's a good one! In the US last year there were 43,313 fatalities in auto accidents among a population of about 304 million - which means that the odds of being in a fatal car accident are almost exactly the same as having a physioball failure (and perhaps 50 times greater than breaking a bone during a physioball failure). Perhaps the Kings management should look into this and build the players mandatory residences on the Arco Arena grounds so as to avoid a (worse) repeat of the Bobby Hurley incident.

On the bright side, my Dad once completely tore his Achilles tendon tripping on a concrete parking divider - but to my recollection there aren't any of those in the Arco parking lot. THAT'S safety dedication for you!

I could continue, but I really gotta go run and cover myself in bubble wrap. Well, not run, walk. Umm, crawl. Maybe I'll just lay down on the floor and kind of squirm over towards it...

 

[fnordius]

I can't imagine that it was just the weight that caused the ball to pop

...

October 13, 2008 8:56 PM 12 Comments
Curry's bubble bursts in more ways than one »

By Frank Isola

Poor Eddy Curry. He sat on the giant blue physio-ball during a break from Monday’s practice and the ball exploded. Eddy fell and scraped and his wrist but should be okay. The ball, which is used for stretching exercises, was pronounced dead at the scene.



Read more: http://www.nydailynews.com/blogs/knicks/2008/10/currys-bubble-bursts-in-more-w.html#ixzz0TlL8dg9S

Or you could look at it this way - according to the article Fnordius found (also in a web search), a batch of 3 million physioballs were recalled after reports of just 47 failures. That's 1 in 150,000.

That's 1 in 150,000 that were reported to the manufacturer as having exploded. But I've had hundreds of consumer products break or wear out, some of them quite unexpectedly, and never reported a single one to the manufacturer. I'd imagine a lot of people have similar habits. I have no idea what 47 reports translates to in that way.

 

[Capt. Factorial]

That's 1 in 150,000 that were reported to the manufacturer as having exploded. But I've had hundreds of consumer products break or wear out, some of them quite unexpectedly, and never reported a single one to the manufacturer. I'd imagine a lot of people have similar habits. I have no idea what 47 reports translates to in that way.

Of course it's difficult to say. Unreported failures almost certainly occurred. But I would guess that major injuries are probably not severely under-reported given the litigious nature of our society. I think that even without definite quantification, the failure rate of the defective balls could be characterized as "low", and the injury rate as "very low".

 

[VF21]

The Kings should have known what King Baller found out with a Google search. Here we have so called experts - professionals - with the Kings who didn't do the due diligence of King Baller. Yeah, welcome to the Kings all right...

Oh please. If you want to continue to beat the dead horse, feel free to do so but would you leave me out of it at this point? You've gone beyond the rational well into the realm of the absurd in your reasoning and discussing it with you further would be akin to me trying to argue politics with my four-year-old granddaughter.

I get it. You think the Kings training staff is a bunch of uninformed buffoons who don't know what they're doing. If I recall, you might even have posited this POV in regards to a prior accident. Yep, accident... as in unexpected action that was not due to anyone's intentional misdeed and resulted in an injury.

**** happens. Learn to live with it or live in a freaking bubble.

 

[Telemachus]

Whoa...wait...you used to make spa covers? My mom's got trashed and now she wants to try to make a new one herself. Any professional advice?

If just the outside of the cover is messed up (the vinyl), she might be able to sew one herself. If the inside is messed up, I doubt she will be able to fix it. Probably better off just buying one.

 

[Telemachus]

Or you could look at it this way - according to the article Fnordius found (also in a web search), a batch of 3 million physioballs were recalled after reports of just 47 failures. That's 1 in 150,000. And "a" fracture, meaning out of 3 million defective units, there was a 1 in 150,000 chance of failure and one broken bone as a result of failure. Presumably the numbers for non-defective units would be even more favorable. So maybe, just maybe, the Kings training staff had actually considered the chance that such an event might occur and believed that the probability was too low to worry about.

It should also be pointed out that this a SINGLE company that makes these balls. And I find it hard to believe that the physioballs that are used by professionals cost $15 - $30. Maybe someone has checked there average price, but I would have to guess these are the lower end balls made for your average household.

 

[King Baller]

Hey I am with Kingster and Brick here. I am not a Professional Trainer, but I did get an A in Physics

You would not catch me balanced on a ball lifting weights. Core, smore, I would work the core other ways and lift weights on good old fashioned weight benches.

I m really sorry this happened to Cisco. I like his determination and hustle. I hate to seem him injured and sidelined.

KB

 

[rainmaker]

Doing the bench press on a physio ball is extremely common, for both pro athletes and regular people working out in gyms. I don't know how much experience everyone here has with physio balls, but the are very sturdy(for a ball), and have pretty tough exterior. Point being, when your bench pressing on top of one you don't feel as if your doing something dangerous or putting yourself at risk.

But accidents happen. Cisco just happened to be extremely unlucky, and thats going by the numbers I have seen in the fitness industry. They have a reputation for being pretty safe. Its more likely that you'll tear your achilles running on the treadmill than having a physio ball pop on you.

But I also understand the arguement that if your paying a player 6M, and you have a lot invested in him, than try to make every exercise in the weight room as safe as possible.

 

[kennadog]

No matter how careful any person is, accidents happen. Any piece of exercise equipment could potentially cause a serious injury. Heck, any exercise could cause a serious injury. The point is that you almost always have to weigh the benefits of something versus the potential for injury. Otherwise, most of us would never consider getting into a car.

All of these things have some chance of causing injury: weightlifting, treadmills, stairsteppers, running (especially with scissors ), aerobics, swimming, etc. And any single piece of exercise equipment could be defective, regardless of how many times or how many people have used that type of equipment safely.

Do you suppose that college football teams have abandoned weightlifting, because of what happed to the USC football player? Not likely, because the benefits outweigh the risks. Sure they'll check over safety procedures, but they won't stop. So I guess they're all ignorant or negligent?

Rainmaker is right. They try to make it as safe "as possible." That doesn't mean 100% safe. Not much is.

 

[bloom]

4 months…I feel bad for Cisco. The poor guy wasn’t even playing the game and he gets injured. I really think this is Omri’s and Donte’s time to shine. It seems that Omri understands how to get in the game but I just hope Donte figures it out soon.

Remember that urban legend about Arco being built atop an old Indian burial ground? It must have extended beneath the Training Facility, too.

I was thinking about that..we seriously need a new arena. But this could also be a blessing for both Omri and Donte.

 

[carmichaeldave]

PS - On the Carmichael Dave show a week or so ago, they were taking bets on who'd be injured first, Cisco or Kevin. I didn't expect to know the winner THIS early!

I want to make something clear: John Dickinson was filling in for me, and I was calling outside a Safeway on my day off. That was John's segment, and I refused to give a prediction for this exact reason: Karma....

Yes, the two players brought up were Cisco and Kmart, and look what happened. No, I am NOT a fan of the prediction game when it comes to injuries....I would surely blame myself if I had participated.