Chances Salmons is traded?

[beb0p]

Right now, if there is a team out there either stupid enough or depserate enoguh to take a chance on John's inability to play with other good players,

Wait a minute, Brick. It's only about a month ago that you said Salmons is the guy to take New Orleans to the next level. What prompted the 180?

Well, at any rate. I'm glad you came around on John. It truly is something when the awfulness of the team prompts an agreement, at least on this issue, between you and me.

 

[HighTopKicks]

I feel like that takes things a little too far. John is a good defender, and he's almost always guarding the opponent's best 2 or 3. He's not SUPPOSED to be playing team defense, he needs to be keying on the other team's scorer and not letting them get easy looks. I wouldn't look a gift horse in the mouth on this one. On a team with terrible defenders he's the only passable one. He could stop playing defense altogether and it wouldn't really matter at this point, but he has the pride to keep on playing defense like the games matter. I don't think it's necessary to twist John's one unambiguous positive attribute and turn it into a negative.

The problem with John is that his offense depends on him having the ball and probing the defense one on one. He's not a spot up shooter, he's not someone who gets garbage points... he has to pound the ball to be effective and he has to have his number called. When he's not, he's not effective. That's just his game, and it's why he's destined to be a good player on a bad team.

Whether it's a character flaw or just a result of trying to do what he's best at I'll leave to the armchair psychologists. I tend to think he means well but is just a limited player.

Other than the obvious, that any players offense depends on him having the ball, what you describ as faults can be flipped and made to look like positives.

Everytime someone wants to put John down, they use the phrase "pound the ball". What does that mean? He dribbles the ball to get in position to drive past the man covering him. So, from the positive view, he's able to create & drive off his own dribble and doesn't need someone to screen for him. Well, I consider that a valueable talent.

Yes, sometimes he dribbles too long without getting by his man. And, sometimes he can't finish even if he does get by his man because it's too crowded in the paint. But, sometimes he does go all the way and scores and sometime he passes, everything isn't always bad. And, John can catch & shot. In fact, since Martins return his 3pt shooting has increased.

With Cisco & Martin out a majority of the year, Salmons was the man. Now, with everyone back, for the first time the team has the opportunity to learn to work together. I guess when I see, everyone giving Martin a pass on his defects and only looking at his positives, I get upset with eveyone harping on John's defects and ignoring his positives.

 

[Bricklayer]

Wait a minute, Brick. It's only about a month ago that you said Salmons is the guy to take New Orleans to the next level. What prompted the 180?

Well, at any rate. I'm glad you came around on John. It truly is something when the awfulness of the team prompts an agreement, at least on this issue, between you and me.

If John were to pull his head out, he could be. New Orleans does not need a star ot OG/SF, nor even anybody who makes his teammates better -- Paul has that covered. They need a solid contibutor, a man defender, and an extra guy who can create a shot. John would need to do nothing more than be better than Rasual Butler to help. In any case, they have already bounced back enough that they may not want to take the risk. Every extra game John plays and proves he doesn't mesh well with other players who need the ball is a day when his trade value slips a little further. It may never have been higher than it was the night before Kevin returned.

 

[Capt. Factorial]

The individual +/- for each player on the team is calculated according to how the team does with or without him -- otherwise they would be a simple expression of the team's ability.

I didn't realize that the +/- numbers you had were already corrected for the team's point differential. Clearly in the daily box score (at least according to Yahoo) +/- numbers are not corrected for the game's point differential so I hope you'll excuse the confusion.

Where do you find the corrected +/- numbers?

 

[Bricklayer]

I didn't realize that the +/- numbers you had were already corrected for the team's point differential. Clearly in the daily box score (at least according to Yahoo) +/- numbers are not corrected for the game's point differential so I hope you'll excuse the confusion.

Where do you find the corrected +/- numbers?

82games.com

They have all the esoteric stats over there. Have to be careful though -- they are interesting supplements, but often so contrived and niche-oriented that they can lead you badly astray. 10 levels down in stats I can probably cobble together an argument about how Luke Walton is better than Kobe.

 

[beb0p]

If John were to pull his head out, he could be.

I'm guessing by "pull his head out" it means Salmons finally figures out how to play with other players who demand the ball; to be unselfish, and to stop being a career loser. In other words, all the things he hasn't done and shows no sign of being able to do in the future.

And yeah, with each passing game that he shows himself to be less than a team player, his value goes down. The problem is, it really does take a desperate team to want Salmons.

 

[VF21]

..10 levels down in stats I can probably cobble together an argument about how Luke Walton is better than Kobe.

Maybe that should be our theme for next TDOS? Proving the most interesting comments via usage of statistics.

 

[Kingster]

Somebody help me out here. John is a good defender right? he has always been a decent ball handler for the 3 and a good passer for the 3. He has always been able to penetrate and get the short jumper or finish at the rim. I get the "good player on a bad team" thing. I have watched every kings game for years now. So with the aquisition of John its safe to say I have seen him play every game the last 3 years. I notice one thing this year that sets apart the years past. His 3pt shooting not only is he taking (becuase he used to pass it up and drive into traffic and drove me crazy) but his making them at 40% clip. He is now a 3pt threat. I thought early it was just a fluke but, he continues to take that shot and not force the drive and he has become a better player because of it. Now I know this is what makes his trade value climp the charts. I am just wondering what more could we ask of a SF? good defense good passer good ball handler able to finish at the rim a decent rebounder for the SF and a deep threat. Now I know he just turned 29. I know we are building for the future and all but he is starting to be a steal at this point.

Basically I need somebody to sell me on the point that he has to be traded right now.

Salmons is a good on the ball defender, but I don't know if I have seen him help out on D all year long. Can you recall him ever covering for someone else and taking a charge? Salmons either doesn't have the want-to or the quickness to do it. And he's a poor rebounder for a three. He certainly doesn't have any shot blocking ability as a three. So, all this talk about Salmons being an "A" defender is rubbish as far as I am concerned.

His age is why we need to trade him. We should be pretty good in three years; he'll be 31 then. Just about to go on the downhill slide. So what's the point? He plays two years with a pretty good team, and then he starts the downhill slide and then we can't get value for him.

 

[bench_blob]

Watch the magnificence of LeBron James for a lesson on sharing the ball with teammates. Here is a guy who passes up a lot of shots to keep his teammates engaged, to give them wide open looks, to keep the ball moving freely. By the way the Cavs are 34-8. As many games as we lose, they win.

Salmons plays the exact opposite way of LeBron James. LeBron knows the value of "throwing a dog a bone" so to speak so he throws the ball to role players Varaejo, Booby Gibson and J.J. Hickson to keep them involved. These teammates respond with intense defense and unselfish play. For a basketball purist, it is beautiful to watch.

LeBron knows when to pass (sometimes and often), and when to take over and score (within the flow and crunch time). Salmons knows when to pass (never or only as a last resort), and when to try to score (anytime, anywhere).

Salmons teammates respond to his selfishness by selfish play of their own. No one says Salmons is on par with King James. No one is as good as LeBron the Great. (Kobe is a shell of LeBron, IMHO) But there is no reason Salmons could not have adopted the same mentality as a player like LeBron, which is to approach the game the right way, the winner's way.

Of course, I have lost all hope Salmons will ever change. I hate to use a trite cliche, but this long into his career, "it is what it is".

That said, I would love to see Salmons traded anywhere. Maybe to the Bucks for rookie Joe Alexander. He is riding the pine and lost PT to their other rookie with the funny name. (MaHaBoottay?) From what I sensed on the TV broadcast, Jerry Reynolds was high on Alexander around draft time. It's wishful thinking, I know, but a fan can dream.