CBS13 Tours Anaheim’s Honda Center

Mike0476 said:
This is what we're up against. It's also about time our local media did a story like this to help educate the people of Sacramento.

http://sacramento.cbslocal.com/2011/02/24/cbs13-tours-anaheims-honda-center/
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I've been to both Honda Center and Staples Center and I have to say I actually like Honda Center more. The interiors are about the same to me. But I like the surroundings of the Honda Center much more because there is less traffic jam, the streets are cleaner, wider and way less "ghetto" comparing the Staples area.

I think what the people of Sac are up against is more than the arena really. Because its the full package of the city that includes the TV deals, sponsorships, value of the team, attractiveness to free agents, among other things.

On the local radio station, I hear that the TV deal for the Kings in Anaheim would be worth around $30 to $40 million (Fox Sports West + possibly KCAL), while only $15 million if they are in a smaller market such as Louisville. The lakers just dropped Fox Sports + KCAL and to sign a new deal with Time Warner to have their own lakers channel. This leaves a void for free TV and basic cable. There will be no NBA on free TV and that gives the Kings a perfect chance to cash in. I read this today in the Sac based articles too. If the arena is the only thing that matters to the Maloofs, they would be talking to Kansas City and Louisville instead of Anaheim.

Also, Honda Center is supposedly offering 5 years of free rent for the Kings to move in. Thats a huge incentive and when you add in the much higher TV revenue per year, the Maloofs can recoup any relocation cost and pay back some of their loans within that 5 years.

Moving to Anaheim also instantly increases the value of the team, simply because of where they are located. The Knicks are always #1 in terms of team value because they are in NY. Also, the Maloofs have to wonder if they can get more free agents by being in Anaheim.

To me, I think the Maloofs already know what they are going to do. I don't know what that is because I don't know what the real numbers are, how much of what the media reports is true and what kind of money can they get in Sac for TV deals in sponsorships. Only they know. But I think they already have a good idea what they want to do. Just trying to get the most money out of the deal, whatever that may be.
 
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I've read the TV deal too. But the question would have is why would Fox Sports and KCAL want the Kings over the Clippers? The Clippers have their fan base there already and have a marketable star in Blake Griffen. I know we have a bias here in Kings country, but Reke and DMC aren't as big as Griffen is now. It's not a ready made market for the Kings... yet.
 
Now their only problem is to steal fans away from the Lakers and the Blake Griffen Clippers. All the more reason to build an arena.
 
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JB_kings said:
I've read the TV deal too. But the question would have is why would Fox Sports and KCAL want the Kings over the Clippers? The Clippers have their fan base there already and have a marketable star in Blake Griffen. I know we have a bias here in Kings country, but Reke and DMC aren't as big as Griffen is now. It's not a ready made market for the Kings... yet.
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The way the LA Fox Sports works is they have #1 and #2, basically 2 channels. One covers the Clippers and the other covers the lakers. When the lakers got that $3 billion 20 yr deal, they dropped Fox + KCAL.

So now one of the two Fox Sports channels will be without NBA programming and KCAL loss their only sports program too. Fox Sports is the one that will almost step up for certain to pick up the Kings if they do move to Anaheim. I'm not sure about KCAL, they may wait for the Kings to build up a fan base first initially. Thats why the deal is suppose to be between $30-$40 million, assuming they work out the deal correctly.
 
Peter_Gibbons said:
...I think what the people of Sac are up against is more than the arena really. Because its the full package of the city that includes the TV deals, sponsorships, value of the team, attractiveness to free agents, among other things.

On the local radio station, I hear that the TV deal for the Kings in Anaheim would be worth around $30 to $40 million (Fox Sports West + possibly KCAL), while only $15 million if they are in a smaller market such as Louisville. The lakers just dropped Fox Sports + KCAL and to sign a new deal with Time Warner to have their own lakers channel. This leaves a void for free TV and basic cable. There will be no NBA on free TV and that gives the Kings a perfect chance to cash in. I read this today in the Sac based articles too. If the arena is the only thing that matters to the Maloofs, they would be talking to Kansas City and Louisville instead of Anaheim.

Also, Honda Center is supposedly offering 5 years of free rent for the Kings to move in. Thats a huge incentive and when you add in the much higher TV revenue per year, the Maloofs can recoup any relocation cost and pay back some of their loans within that 5 years.

Moving to Anaheim also instantly increases the value of the team, simply because of where they are located. The Knicks are always #1 in terms of team value because they are in NY. Also, the Maloofs have to wonder if they can get more free agents by being in Anaheim.
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I hate to say it but you're absolutely correct. The only way the Kings in Anaheim flops is that people do not go to the games at all. I don't see that happening. There aren't too many unknowns in Anaheim. The instant increase value of the team and TV revenue possibilities in Anaheim would be so tempting. If the Maloofs end up staying in Sac its because they truly love the city and earning MORE profits isn't everything to them.
 
Ok I can see that Fox has two channels. But I know the Lakers were worth the 30-40 million to them, are the Kings worth that? They don't have Kobe or Blake Griffen to market. Now if they are already paying the Clippers 40 million, I can see them coming in at 30-40 for the Kings. Again the Kings are not a hot property in SoCal. Maybe in the days of Webber, Bibby and Divac they had some attractive power. I guess the Maloofs might look at it as the market will draw the stars. But does Fox see that? They aren't fans, they are business men. And they just saw a perfect example in Carmelo going to the Knicks and not the Nets. It's the name team in the market that draws the stars onto their teams - not just any team in the market. If I'm fox, sell me on why I'm going to get an TV audience to see these Kings.
 
ArcoKings said:
I hate to say it but you're absolutely correct. The only way the Kings in Anaheim flops is that people do not go to the games at all. I don't see that happening. There aren't too many unknowns in Anaheim. The instant increase value of the team and TV revenue possibilities in Anaheim would be so tempting. If the Maloofs end up staying in Sac its because they truly love the city and earning MORE profits isn't everything to them.
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Then why arent the ducks selling out every game?
 
JB_kings said:
Ok I can see that Fox has two channels. But I know the Lakers were worth the 30-40 million to them, are the Kings worth that? They don't have Kobe or Blake Griffen to market. Now if they are already paying the Clippers 40 million, I can see them coming in at 30-40 for the Kings. Again the Kings are not a hot property in SoCal. Maybe in the days of Webber, Bibby and Divac they had some attractive power. I guess the Maloofs might look at it as the market will draw the stars. But does Fox see that? They aren't fans, they are business men. And they just saw a perfect example in Carmelo going to the Knicks and not the Nets. It's the name team in the market that draws the stars onto their teams - not just any team in the market. If I'm fox, sell me on why I'm going to get an TV audience to see these Kings.
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True, they may not get $40 million, but it will be definitely more than they would in a smaller market. Amick also talked about how he hears that the TV deal is more of a driving force than people think.

Fox has to replace the lakers with something. They can't just fold the channel in that region. I mean they can, but what happens to the other shows that runs on that channel currently? There are 3 million OC residents that are potential viewers before factoring in any neighboring cities. Thats why Fox does it.

Once the Kings starts to show improvement, more stars will be willing to sign. Most of the hot free agent cities don't have cap space to make any moves. Then it comes down to.. would you rather go to Anaheim or Indiana?
 
Section 101 said:
Then why arent the ducks selling out every game?
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You need to understand that OC or LA in general is definitely not a hockey town. Not close. I don't think schools plays any hockey as their PE curriculum. Not many people even know the rules to a hockey game.

The fact that the Ducks, being one of 2 teams in a non hockey area, is able to draw around 15,000 fans a game is actually surprising to me. Also, we are talking about the NHL here. I don't know how many NHL teams actually still sells out. Probably the Canadian teams and some east coast teams.

I read earlier that the Clippers drew over 17,000 every single time they played at Honda Center. OC/LA is a much much bigger basketball town than hockey.
 
I'm not saying they won't get a TV deal. But they aren't going to hit the jackpot either until they show they aren't team #3 in a three team market. The channel may live on, but channels run off of advertisement. Advertisers aren't under long term commitments to run ads on a certain channel. The Lakers got the deal through Time Warner and I fully expect all their advertisers to follow them.

As for Amick, his rep has sort of hit the skids around these here parts with some headlines that turned out to be dudlines. He was towards the end of the line at the Bee on talented sports writers. He has contacts, but they might not be solid ones.

And FYI, Sacramento fans averaged 17,000 attendance for years, not for a handful of games. Despite all this mess, it's not a backwater market with nothing to offer. It's like almost all the other small markets that suffered when player salaries got out of control. As long as they win they are safe, but fail on the floor and fail at the box office.
 
JB_kings said:
I'm not saying they won't get a TV deal. But they aren't going to hit the jackpot either until they show they aren't team #3 in a three team market. The channel may live on, but channels run off of advertisement. Advertisers aren't under long term commitments to run ads on a certain channel. The Lakers got the deal through Time Warner and I fully expect all their advertisers to follow them.

As for Amick, his rep has sort of hit the skids around these here parts with some headlines that turned out to be dudlines. He was towards the end of the line at the Bee on talented sports writers. He has contacts, but they might not be solid ones.

And FYI, Sacramento fans averaged 17,000 attendance for years, not for a handful of games. Despite all this mess, it's not a backwater market with nothing to offer. It's like almost all the other small markets that suffered when player salaries got out of control. As long as they win they are safe, but fail on the floor and fail at the box office.
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Attendance goes up with a better performance, that goes in any market. As I said, its more than just the arena. Another example is that even if Sac OKs the arena project, it will take at least 2 yrs to build. Can the Maloofs wait that long and leave profit on the table?

Not everyone can afford the premium channel that the lakers is going to be. There is still a high demand for "free" basketball. Keep in mind the Kings do have a guy name Tyreke and a guy name DeMarcus. They may not be as hyped as Blake, but they are 2 of the top young players in the league. Another top 5 pick is coming. I wouldn't doubt there will be support for a young exciting team with cap space.

It really comes down to the opinions of Sac natives vs others on these issues. I'm not going to try to convince you to believe the takes of others. Because we can go back and forth for a long time. Really I'm just sharing what I heard in LA and what the people are talking about.
 
I think they'd sell a ton of season ticket packages right away, and maybe you wouldn't be at 100% for the season, but 85% isn't unrealistic. And that's in the first year.

And there would be a huge market for a television deal. A lot of advertisers are going to get priced out because of the Lakers new TV deal. And then there's all the Angels and Ducks advertisers. By the way, the three ownership groups would surely be looking to create their own OC network with tons of sports programming.

The league is still looking into OC as a legitimate destination, but I think they'll find that it's more than viable for an NBA team.
 
All interesting points. But it assumes a very green grass on the other side.

No matter how you frame the arguments, there are still two NBA teams in the greater LA area. That is something that is not going to change in the near future and not a problem easily solved. This has to concern the NBA and the two teams already there. They are all fighting for the same fan base. I doubt the number of new fans to the NBA is going to jump much. So it's going to be a cannibalization of each other. You may not hear it publically right now, but I can assure you neither LA team is going to be ok with this. And getting a few million thrown their way is not going to make them ok with the move.
 
This is a great thread, and finally touches on the issue of why the Maloofs would do this.

I think there's one other issue, but this is just my theory (sorry if someone else already said it): I think Samueli has volunteered to be a White Knight to prop up the Maloofs just in case something happens in Vegas or with the Kings. If the Maloofs need to sell debt, Samueli will buy it to keep Harrah's at bay.

So, better TV market, plus a financial backstop.

I think the Maloofs have already made up their minds. This is their chance to keep their team. That's what they want. I view this deadline extension as a cynical way to extract a few more bucks from Sacramento. That arena would be empty for the last games if the Maloofs filed March 1. They're avoiding losing $1-$3 million by extending the deadline.
 
Arena Skeptic said:
This is a great thread, and finally touches on the issue of why the Maloofs would do this.

I think there's one other issue, but this is just my theory (sorry if someone else already said it): I think Samueli has volunteered to be a White Knight to prop up the Maloofs just in case something happens in Vegas or with the Kings. If the Maloofs need to sell debt, Samueli will buy it to keep Harrah's at bay.

So, better TV market, plus a financial backstop.

I think the Maloofs have already made up their minds. This is their chance to keep their team. That's what they want. I view this deadline extension as a cynical way to extract a few more bucks from Sacramento. That arena would be empty for the last games if the Maloofs filed March 1. They're avoiding losing $1-$3 million by extending the deadline.
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ding ding ding
 
i feel bad for you sacramento people, but lets face it the writing is on the walls, and it makes complete sense to move to anaheim. Honda Center is a very good arena, and the tv deals, so cal free agent draw, only add to it. The maloofs options 1. go to anaheim with all the above mentioned. 2. stay in sacramento and play in the same old archaic building, with little fan support and hope for a new arena deal, something they have been waiting ten or more years for.

It would be a miracle if the kings don't move to Anaheim.

oh and If they move I wont have to buy nba league pass anymore. HOOORAYYYY!
 
Arena Skeptic said:
If this item doesn't seal the deal, then what will it take?

http://www.sacbee.com/2011/02/25/3432023/mayor-slams-kings-for-failing.html

Look, this is just ugly now. I fear for KJ's sanity. But not giving the documents really sends a signal. And no, the signal is not, "We're really looking forward to another 20 years in Sac!".
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Geez, I never realized the Maloofs were so hated per the article's comments. People are making them out to be like villains. Bad businessmen, bratts, wasted their 'inheritance', etc. etc. I don't know about Sacramento anymore. Very sad indeed.
 
ArcoKings said:
Geez, I never realized the Maloofs were so hated per the article's comments. People are making them out to be like villains. Bad businessmen, bratts, wasted their 'inheritance', etc. etc. I don't know about Sacramento anymore. Very sad indeed.
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This shouldn't surprise you. People are feeling hurt. They have to take their anger out on someone. Ultimately, the Maloofs would be pulling the team out of the city. Whether they are justified or not is a totally separate issue, at least as a practical matter it is. So you gotta expect people to direct their anger to those who they see as in control of the problem. After all, these people (us) have no control over what is happening at the moment. Feelings of helplessness is a PITA.
 
Arena Skeptic said:
If this item doesn't seal the deal, then what will it take?

http://www.sacbee.com/2011/02/25/3432023/mayor-slams-kings-for-failing.html

Look, this is just ugly now. I fear for KJ's sanity. But not giving the documents really sends a signal. And no, the signal is not, "We're really looking forward to another 20 years in Sac!".
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KJ and all these other public knobs should just shut the hell up! Their macho crap and "educated" opinion will only do one thing and thats push the Maloofs and the Kings into the open arms of Anaheim!

I just wish they would shut up and work behind the scenes to get things done. Making public dummy spits does not put out the fire, it adds more fuel to it and certainly doesn't help already tense relationship between Maloofs and Sacramento.
 
ArcoKings said:
Geez, I never realized the Maloofs were so hated per the article's comments. People are making them out to be like villains. Bad businessmen, bratts, wasted their 'inheritance', etc. etc. I don't know about Sacramento anymore. Very sad indeed.
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The Bee commenting section is like the Mos Eisley Spaceport - "you've never seen such a wretched hive of scum and villainy" etc. etc. Several of the posters there post under multiple names to make their bile and hatred appear even more common than it is. We can only hope that the Maloofs understand that the loudest noise is made by a minority of pathetic and bitter individuals as we the reasonable fight to keep our team.
 
I still don't see where the incentive is for Samueli. He is going to let the Kings play rent free and undoubtedly, he will lose some fans as there are going to be people who watch the Ducks just because they are the only tenant at the building. A lot of those fans will now look at the NBA as a better option so I see Samueli losing on that.

I could be wrong. Maybe naming rights go up if there is an NBA team or Samueli thinks that the revenue he generates from concession sales and parking at 42 King games will offset the Duck ticket base that he'll be losing. Does anyone else see this as a risk of sorts to Samueli's NHL franchise?
 
Trueblood said:
I still don't see where the incentive is for Samueli. He is going to let the Kings play rent free and undoubtedly, he will lose some fans as there are going to be people who watch the Ducks just because they are the only tenant at the building. A lot of those fans will now look at the NBA as a better option so I see Samueli losing on that.

I could be wrong. Maybe naming rights go up if there is an NBA team or Samueli thinks that the revenue he generates from concession sales and parking at 42 King games will offset the Duck ticket base that he'll be losing. Does anyone else see this as a risk of sorts to Samueli's NHL franchise?
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I've seen all sorts of risks in moving to Anaheim. It's not a pot of gold at the end of the rainbow. The trouble with the Maloofs is that they are a highly emotional gang. They are like the fans in some sense and get really high on the highs and lower on the lows. They have all sorts of guys paid to balance that out and do the real digging and advise. But the end decisions are made by them. These are the same guys that jumped into all sort of questionable business ventures that lost them money. They gamble and lose more than they win. It's not me being a bitter guy, it's the truth. They got into the music biz, entertainement, bad investments and their supposed success is the Palms and that is bleeding money out faster than coming in. The basketball side is no different as we know they've mucked up coach firing and hiring and even forced questionable trades. So who is to say they are listening and heading advice of those that point out Anaheim carries lots of risk?
 
Trueblood said:
I still don't see where the incentive is for Samueli. He is going to let the Kings play rent free and undoubtedly, he will lose some fans as there are going to be people who watch the Ducks just because they are the only tenant at the building. A lot of those fans will now look at the NBA as a better option so I see Samueli losing on that.

I could be wrong. Maybe naming rights go up if there is an NBA team or Samueli thinks that the revenue he generates from concession sales and parking at 42 King games will offset the Duck ticket base that he'll be losing. Does anyone else see this as a risk of sorts to Samueli's NHL franchise?
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I don't think he would lose ticket sales from the Ducks to the Kings. Hockey fans will go to hockey games, the same with basketball fans. I lived right down the street from the Pond when it opened and never went to a Ducks game, (I don't like hockey), but I did go to basketball games there.
 
Peter_Gibbons said:
The way the LA Fox Sports works is they have #1 and #2, basically 2 channels. One covers the Clippers and the other covers the lakers. When the lakers got that $3 billion 20 yr deal, they dropped Fox + KCAL.

So now one of the two Fox Sports channels will be without NBA programming and KCAL loss their only sports program too. Fox Sports is the one that will almost step up for certain to pick up the Kings if they do move to Anaheim. I'm not sure about KCAL, they may wait for the Kings to build up a fan base first initially. Thats why the deal is suppose to be between $30-$40 million, assuming they work out the deal correctly.
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Unfortunately, this is what I'm thinking as well.

I don't find it ironic one bit that the Anaheim talks started heating up as soon as the Lakers jumped to the Time Warner deal. FSW started scrambling and that's probably where behind the scenes talks began between Time Warner, the Kings and Samueli. I could be wrong but I wouldn't be surprised at all if that's what happened.

This could very well be about more than the arena. The potential tv contract is much more lucrative then whatever extra percentage of suite revenue they get from Anaheim that they can't get in Sacramento. I would go so far as saying that the tv contract is a much bigger incentive to move than the Honda Center.
 
hoopsfan said:
I don't think he would lose ticket sales from the Ducks to the Kings. Hockey fans will go to hockey games, the same with basketball fans. I lived right down the street from the Pond when it opened and never went to a Ducks game, (I don't like hockey), but I did go to basketball games there.
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It's possible. I was at the Clippers first ever exhibition game at the former Pond when it opened in '93. They played the Warriors and Danny Manning got booed since he was trying like heck to get out of there. In fact, he often says that he would've signed a 5 year extension had Sterling made the move to Anaheim when the building opened up as opposed to just being a temporary tenant for 5 games a season.

OTOH, getting back to your post, is how many of those are hockey fans and how many are just fans who root for the home team since there is no other tenant in the building right now? Is the Duck fan base a diehard hockey fan base or just a diehard pro OC fan base? If it's the latter, a lot of them will switch over to the more popular socal sport and that's basketball.
 
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Of the friends and people I know who go to Ducks games...they are diehard hockey fans, happy that the have a local team to go see. I don't think many people would go to a hockey game that they don't understand, to watch a team that they really don't care about and spend 2 1/2 hours sitting in a freezing cold arena just for the hell of it. There's too many other things to do in the area IMO.
 
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