Carmichael Dave innuendo, "We are officially at Defcon One"

[MassachusettsKingsFan]

In theory, I don't have an issue with Cousins or his agents flexing their muscles in order to get the right guy here. Lord knows this front office has had / is having issues finding the right guy.

In this case, however, I'm inclined disagree with how they feel to a certain extent. I'm not even a Karl guy, really, but as Brick mentioned, the options are limited. We don't know which way the agents are pushing. My guess would be that this is a Karl specific issue, meaning they don't want Karl specifically, and are not actually trying to control the coaching hire.

But that's incredibly dangerous to Cousins and this franchise. Again, not because I love Karl, or because I know Karl and Cousins will work (because I don't know that) but the other options scare the crap out of me. Cousins agents would probably be fine with Mark Jackson. In fact, I wouldn't be surprised if Jackson is number one on Cousins list. They have a relationship. NBA players love him. Cousins was in that meeting that took place about a month ago between Jackson and the front office.

PDA has the details. We don't. But if Cousins is pushing for Jackson (pure speculation on my part) or the other option is VDN for mid season guys, Gentry, McMillan, or Thibs for off season options .. that's a tough call.

Thibs is the only guy I'd be really bummed out about missing, but I can't imagine he'd take this job in the offseason. If Chicago lets him go, there should be 20+ jobs available to him.

So the question is, do you hire Karl even if he's not Cousins guy right now, and pray that relationship works, or do you hire a lesser overall coach? And then consider that the lesser coach probably isn't coming until the offseason, which means you run the risk of losing this year completely and further hurting the organizations relationship with Cousins.

It feels like it's going to be Karl or nobody if the change is going to be made mid season. That alone might make it worth doing even if Cousins isn't completely on board.

It's a tough one.

 

[HereWeBoogie]

I'd rather have Thibbs in a heartbeat over Karl. BUT Thibbs is still under contract by the Bulls. It could be a lose-lose scenario if we lose out on Karl to Orlando and the Bulls decide to stick with Thibbs at the end of the year.

We're in a sticky situation.

I would much rather have Thibbs because I think he might be able to utilize Cuz a little better. Plus, he'd probably make our team top 20 in defense.

i agree. But the odds Thibs and the Bulls part ways AND he actually chooses Kings over other options? not odds i want to bet on

 

[randymoss1881]

i honestly think Mullin/Vivek have had Pete handcuffed or he would have hired Karl 6 weeks ago

This is probably true and there's a Karl/Mullin beef rumor. Also I don't buy the Cousins agent thing if Cousins opinion matter we would be in the 8th seed with Malone preparing a gamelan for tonight.

 

[BenThePizzaGuy]

I'd rather have Thibbs in a heartbeat over Karl. BUT Thibbs is still under contract by the Bulls. It could be a lose-lose scenario if we lose out on Karl to Orlando and the Bulls decide to stick with Thibbs at the end of the year.

We're in a sticky situation.

I would much rather have Thibbs because I think he might be able to utilize Cuz a little better. Plus, he'd probably make our team top 20 in defense.

Can someone explain why Thibbs keeps being mentioned? What's going on with him and Chicago?

 

[BenThePizzaGuy]

I mean, one of the biggest annoyances in the NBA is how some big ego stars can dictate who to hire and who to fire. It's fine if the front office trusts the top player for their two cents, but to whine and throw a fit like a baby until the player gets their way (Chris Paul), I don't get it.

Not pointing any fingers at anyone. Just giving my take on the situation.

 

[PurpleHaze]

Sounds like a problem started by the clowns running us. You either don't fire malone or the logical leave Corbin as a interim coach instead of signing that clown to a season long contract.

Clowns is the operative word. We've sure come long way from In Petrie We Trust to FO bozo triumvirate, Mully, Vivek & Peety.

 

[HereWeBoogie]

This is probably true and there's a Karl/Mullin beef rumor. Also I don't buy the Cousins agent thing if Cousins opinion matter we would be in the 8th seed with Malone preparing a gamelan for tonight.

this is a great point

 

[rainmaker]

But that's incredibly dangerous to Cousins and this franchise. Again, not because I love Karl, or because I know Karl and Cousins will work (because I don't know that) but the other options scare the poopoo out of me. Cousins agents would probably be fine with Mark Jackson. In fact, I wouldn't be surprised if Jackson is number one on Cousins list. They have a relationship. NBA players love him. Cousins was in that meeting that took place about a month ago between Jackson and the front office.

From after their meeting STP.


Jason Jones ✔ @mr_jasonjones
I've also heard DMC is not a big fan of Mark Jackson, FWIW .... then again he liked Malone and ....?

 

[whozit]

http://www.usatoday.com/story/sport...ngs-coach-tyrone-corbin-george-karl/23035431/

.......As of early Saturday evening, however, a significant gap remained between the two sides when it came to salary and length of contract. If a deal is going to get done, it's likely going to take place on Sunday or perhaps Monday. The people spoke to USA TODAY Sports on the condition of anonymity because of the private nature of the process.

......

Interesting update.

 

[LPKingsFan]

Also added that he thought the Kings were slow playing it for extra time to bring the Cousins camp on board

 

[VF21]

I absolutely refuse to believe that businessman like Vivek would balk at a couple a million. This franchise takes way over 100 million to run per season, and they're going to quibble over 2 million bucks?!?
No way. I think this front office is filled with morons who don't understand basketball, but there's no way they don't see the importance now of spending money to hire a strong, respected coach that has a chance of turning this shipwreck around.
The stark contrast between Karl and lesser coaches is so massive.
The one lesson this FO has to have learned from this season is that the coach IS important - in fact, the coach (and the players playing hard for/with him) is the difference between the Kings being a playoff team and being the worst team in the league.

Does it make ANY sense to anyone else to assemble a team who's players cost over $70 million, and then be hyper-concerned with the $2 million more it takes to make them play well (as opposed to playing horribly for some other, cheaper coach)?

Also, Voisin is wrong about Malone. He only continues to get paid if he is available to do the job and is kept from doing it by the Kings. (Just like unemployment0. He gets another job and he no longer collects from the Kings.

 

[VF21]

This is probably true and there's a Karl/Mullin beef rumor. Also I don't buy the Cousins agent thing if Cousins opinion matter we would be in the 8th seed with Malone preparing a gamelan for tonight.

Malone was fired without any consultation with any of the players, agents, etc. I think it's safe to assume Fegan would want to make sure his client's wants/needs are considered adequately before any new coaching decision is made. These dances have gone on for years, Until the explosion of social media, we just didn't hear about them.

 

[ParniValjak]

The Vaughn situation is pretty normal for a coach on the hot seat who's team is doing terrible and has tuned out the coach.

As for Karl, the biggest concern is whether Cuz is on board with it or not. That's what a lot of this boils down to. There's been a number of leaks suggesting Cuz would not be that thrilled with Karl. Who knows if it's true or not, time will tell. That's a big part of this however. If Cuz is on board and backs this hire, it's good, a real step forward. If Cuz isn't on board with it and we're doing it mostly because Karl is the only proven coach who'll consider this job after recent history, that's a different story.

I have to agree with this!

Cuz is the franchise and it is super important that whoever the new coach is, Cousins is 100% on board. If there is some doubt, then you simply don't do it!

Of all the available cocaches, Karl by far has the best credentials. He might represent pace but I hold hope that he will know how to use Cousins just like he knew how to use Gary Payton. Another thing with him is that he knows how to develop players and get the best out of the teams he coaches. Having said that, all of it becomes irrelevant if DMC himself (and not his agents) is not onboard with this move!

As much as I would like coach Karl, if its between Karl or Cousins its a no brainer for me!

 

[rainmaker]

Also, Voisin is wrong about Malone. He only continues to get paid if he is available to do the job and is kept from doing it by the Kings. (Just like unemployment0. He gets another job and he no longer collects from the Kings.

That's not true. Mike Brown as one example was getting paid by both the Cavs and Lakers at the same time and by both even after getting fired by both. Why? His contracts were guaranteed and are binding due to that.

Part is offset but a coach still gets his guaranteed money.

 

[John Galt]

It is inevitable!!!!

 

[Glenn]

That's not true. Mike Brown as one example was getting paid by both the Cavs and Lakers at the same time and by both even after getting fired by both. Why? His contracts were guaranteed and are binding due to that.

Part is offset but a coach still gets his guaranteed money.

I think VF21 is correct and I think you are correct so I don't know the issue.

 

[206Fan]

I hope Cousin's agent has completely 0 say in this.

I know Cousins is our franchise player, and you don't want franchise players to get a hold of the team.. let alone their agent.

If reports are true about Cousin's agent being sour about something in the past vs Karl, Cuz needs to tell him to grow up...

 

[206Fan]

Can someone explain why Thibbs keeps being mentioned? What's going on with him and Chicago?

There's been a lot of speculation and a few reports about the Bulls not being happy with where they currently are.. I think they feel like Thibb's ceiling as a coach is 2nd round. It's tough to do anything when your roster is never healthy though..

 

[Section 101]

That's not true. Mike Brown as one example was getting paid by both the Cavs and Lakers at the same time and by both even after getting fired by both. Why? His contracts were guaranteed and are binding due to that.

Part is offset but a coach still gets his guaranteed money.

The former team only has to make up any difference if the new contract is lower.

 

[John Galt]

Bruski sure does seem defensive over there on twitter doesn't he? What is the deal with him?

 

[VF21]

Bruski sure does seem defensive over there on twitter doesn't he? What is the deal with him?

He gets like that a lot recently. No idea why...just like I have no idea why Twitter brings out the worst in some people. (And I am NOT talking about present company. )

 

[John Galt]

lol about present company. I for sure have provoked those guys on twitter - tweeted stuff I regretted. I'm surprised that some journalists become so argumentative on there but I'd rather have the likes o Jason Jones, Aaron Bruski, or STR Greg tell me to "pace off", than have the likes of Marcos Breton block me... so I guess - let 'er rip its the new frontier.

But Aaron seems dejected like people aren't giving him credit for being on top of the Karl story or something... I just don't know where he's coming from on that.

 

[VF21]

lol about present company. I for sure have provoked those guys on twitter - tweeted stuff I regretted. I'm surprised that some journalists become so argumentative on there but I'd rather have the likes o Jason Jones, Aaron Bruski, or STR Greg tell me to "pace off", than have the likes of Marcos Breton block me... so I guess - let 'er rip its the new frontier.

But Aaron seems dejected like people aren't giving him credit for being on top of the Karl story or something... I just don't know where he's coming from on that.

I think he's just now realizing that he's missed a lot of clues coming out of Sacramento regarding George Karl's situation. But I could be completely wrong.

 

[Gary]

http://www.usatoday.com/story/sport...ngs-coach-tyrone-corbin-george-karl/23035431/



Interesting update.

That's probably Carmichael Dave right there... (the source hat wishes to stay anonymous).

 

[Warhawk]

While Karl might have been the first choice, I do believe the front office thought Corbin could step in and be adequate. They totally misread the entire scenario, however, and had no idea things would get as bad as they have.

I get that, but.....

If Karl IS your first choice, then you don't wait months after canning Malone, you go get the guy that you want ASAP. This season is about wins, remember? You don't mess around with a "substitute teacher" hoping the guy you want will still be there in 6 months.

If you aren't in a big enough hurry to get Karl (your stated number one choice) now, why fire Malone and compound the mistake by making Corbin more than an interim coach? Corbin wasn't your pick for assistant and he doesn't have a great history record-wise. What is the rationale for thinking that was going to turn out well? The entire internet exploded with "WTF?" when Malone was fired. Is our front office the only trio that was really that clueless??? If Malone and PDA were not communicating well, Vivek should pull them into a room and bang their heads together and say that they need to put their big boy underoos on and work together. If that doesn't work and you do have to fire someone, make sure you have a plan to replace that person with someone better BEFORE you show them the door during the middle of the season.

 

[lawlman91]

Hopefully the players have something to look forward to tonight, and we see something different on the floor. Maybe not a win, but at least some passion

 

[206Fan]

I get that, but.....

If Karl IS your first choice, then you don't wait months after canning Malone, you go get the guy that you want ASAP. This season is about wins, remember? You don't mess around with a "substitute teacher" hoping the guy you want will still be there in 6 months.

If you aren't in a big enough hurry to get Karl (your stated number one choice) now, why fire Malone and compound the mistake by making Corbin more than an interim coach? Corbin wasn't your pick for assistant and he doesn't have a great history record-wise. What is the rationale for thinking that was going to turn out well? The entire internet exploded with "WTF?" when Malone was fired. Is our front office the only trio that was really that clueless??? If Malone and PDA were not communicating well, Vivek should pull them into a room and bang their heads together and say that they need to put their big boy underoos on and work together. If that doesn't work and you do have to fire someone, make sure you have a plan to replace that person with someone better BEFORE you show them the door during the middle of the season.

Draft pick. Check out the 2015 draft prospects thread...this year is really good.

 

[VF21]

I get that, but.....

If Karl IS your first choice, then you don't wait months after canning Malone, you go get the guy that you want ASAP. This season is about wins, remember? You don't mess around with a "substitute teacher" hoping the guy you want will still be there in 6 months.

If you aren't in a big enough hurry to get Karl (your stated number one choice) now, why fire Malone and compound the mistake by making Corbin more than an interim coach? Corbin wasn't your pick for assistant and he doesn't have a great history record-wise. What is the rationale for thinking that was going to turn out well? The entire internet exploded with "WTF?" when Malone was fired. Is our front office the only trio that was really that clueless??? If Malone and PDA were not communicating well, Vivek should pull them into a room and bang their heads together and say that they need to put their big boy underoos on and work together. If that doesn't work and you do have to fire someone, make sure you have a plan to replace that person with someone better BEFORE you show them the door during the middle of the season.

You're asking valid questions but I seriously doubt if we'll ever know the answers. My head actually hurts from all this stuff. I'm not going to second-guess them any more or waste any more time trying to figure them out. I'm just going to hold my breath and hope this time the rumors are right and George Karl (with all his faults, warts, wrinkles, etc.) is sitting on the Kings bench in the very near future.

 

[rainmaker]

The former team only has to make up any difference if the new contract is lower.

Yes, that's the part which is offset, which is why it's incorrect to assume Vivek won't be on the hook for part of Malone's salary just because he signs another HC deal, if and when he does, as it'll depend on how much that yet to be signed contract is worth, or when it's even signed.

The previous poster had it wrong. You have it right. It's all in the details of the next contract, not that the contract he signed here immediately becomes obsolete when he finds a new job. That's dependent on how much his next contract pays.

 

[206Fan]

http://www.cbssports.com/nba/eye-on...usins-camp-against-potential-george-karl-hire

CBS picking it up as well