Carmichael Dave 5/29

VF21

Super Moderator Emeritus
SME
#31
To say the WNBA game is "unwatchable", is a statement of opinion, NOT fact -- more accurately stated as "I find the WNBA unwatchable".

To say NOBODY cares, is in fact UNTRUE, because I for one DO care. Therefore this statement is erroneous, and not worthy of ever being stated again.
Okay, pull the fangs in a bit... ;)

We try to maintain a modicum of civility around here. It doesn't do any good for people to get their hackles up. Nothing ever gets resolved that way.

I'm sure you understand that a LOT of sports fans do find the WNBA unwatchable. That doesn't make them right or wrong. It makes them different.

I, for one, have read dave's comments with interest because he does represent the other side of the coin, so to speak. Having a civil exchange with someone whose ideas differ from yours is really what a successful message board is all about.

:)

BTW? I've merged your three posts into one.
 
#32
You were miscontruing your relationship Ok, if it was Montemayor with Chantelle on his show, and presumably he had the same audience you do, weird huh, that he could get away with that?
Note that he is no longer here, and not to sound egotistical (although i know it does) but there is quite a ratings difference now.

To say the WNBA game is "unwatchable", is a statement of opinion, NOT fact -- more accurately stated as "I find the WNBA unwatchable".

To say NOBODY cares, is in fact UNTRUE, because I for one DO care. Therefore this statement is erroneous, and not worthy of ever being stated again.
sorry. i guess i should put an "IMO" at the end of everything I say. How's this: most everyone I speak to (with exceptions) find the game painful to watch. again, just opinions, reflected by lack of television coverage and most major online sites relegating it to the back page. I don't know how much better I can say this without getting slapped around. You like it? Good, seriously, good for you. Go stand on the street corner tomorrow at your local mall and poll 100 people as to whether or not they like the WNBA game. Maybe I'm wrong.

Oh Boy on this one, first off you need a new favorite writer, Simmons sucks, and I find him unreadable! Why does he insist on writing about that which he doesn't care for? Here's the insight -- there's a thousand things he doesn't care for or about, but he's not writing one whiff about them, no, he keeps coming back to ragging on the WNBA -- why? Because he feels better about himself by having somebody to put down, the WBA threatens him, the idea of women who could KICK HIS @SS in basketball does not compute in his male ego mind. It's safer for him to say the whole thing is a joke.
Again, here we go. Bill Simmons happens to be the most popular writer BY FAR on the entire website. Considering ESPN.com is the most read sports website in the world, that's saying something. Note his very visible place on the front page, while other writers share blocks with each other. He must be on the same page with some other people, otherwise he wouldnt be so tremendously read.

Also, I am not buying for a second, that these types of comments are not swipes at women in general. It's almost comical how utterly clueless the guys who make them are to their misogyny. Except it's not funny.
If you want to get militant, that's fine. Just because someone says "the wnba sucks" doesnt mean they're a woman hater. i don't particularly care for rap music. am I a racist?

Yeah, the language is loaded, but I agree with him here Dave to a degree. And if you had addressed the topic on your show more cogently I probably wouldn't have called you out. But here's what I've preached forever to Val Ackerman the previous commish. "Stop with the talk that you are the 5th major sport. You're not." We are along the lines of every other sport trying to find a niche. The majors are sucking off the tailpipe that is ESPN and Fox, don't forget that Dave as long as that gravy train continues those sports will be flush and as long as ESPN and Fox dictate what is hip and not, and don't think that y'all don't dictate what is hip and "acceptable" to watch by what you say and what you air. Sure its generated by ratings but you have to power to influence what the marketers/advertisers think they want to buy into. You have as much power to create an audience and you know that. Well, not you but the royal "you."
You're talking to a guy who has been completely alone for the past couple years in promoting another fledgling sport that got zero mainstream coverage, the UFC. This is a sport that I found EXTREMELY entertaining, but when i started pushing it, my colleagues looked at me like I was nuts. I have had to basically CREATE an audience, sell the sport, have more fighters on in a month than all other mainstream stations combined in a year, and fight public misconceptions.

As of a couple of weeks ago, ESPN, CBSsportsline, Sports Illustrated, and Fox have all jumped online. I have traveled back and forth to Vegas, Stockton, LA, SF, and many other locales to make this happen, and usually out of my own pocket. I believe in the sport, and was willing to gamble my ratings (my job) and reputation to stoke the fires. Its paying off in droves.

If you have ever listened to my show, you know that I am the LAST guy in this market to follow a company line, and to be afraid to push something that might be "uncool". Heck, I'm doing a live remote on location for the release of "Harry Potter and the Deathly Hallows" in July.

I just find the game unwatchable. The original start of this thread was me finding a way, any way, to get the sport talked about on the air, with it being interesting to my young, typical male audience.

You want me to talk about more WNBA? Everyone sits around and wonders why it isnt being talked about or covered more? The numbers to call in arent a secret. Use them. It shocks me that as committed and almost militant as many fans of the league are (as I am with the UFC), why WNBA fans in different cities havent gotten together on message boards like this one, and filled up the phone lines with WNBA questions.

Seriously, pause and think about that for a second. I'm really trying to help here.

It costs no money, and forces the subject to be spoken about. Most shows run no longer than 3 hours. Imagine what happens when 20 calls in those 3 hours are WNBA related. Would it be that hard?

Just my .02
 
#34
My turn to be in and out now...

Re: Chantelle, yes she is. and btw...there are 13 other women in town who I would suggest are the same way...and perhaps the nearly 155 women around the league not named Chantelle Anderson.

I'm not talking about ratings per say, more so the demographics. You and Montemayor should at least share the same demographic...who are hating the fact that they aren't listening to gawd knows what instead of Monarchs basketball. I'm damn, they sit around and what, call for the 3 hours slotted for a Ms game and ***** about the fact that the game is on? I love that lemming behavior, it amuses me. Just like I would sit on hold for Monarchs Talk and listen to these folks wait for an hour to call in and complain about the W. I'm always thinking, dude (and more often than not its a guy) you just spent an hour of your life you will never get back waiting to ***** about something you don't like. Geezus. Go out and do something else.

I'll be back later, because I do want to continue about some of the things you've just posted.
 

VF21

Super Moderator Emeritus
SME
#35
If you want to get militant, that's fine. Just because someone says "the wnba sucks" doesnt mean they're a woman hater. i don't particularly care for rap music. am I a racist?
Come on, Dave. I asked the poster to whom you're replying to pull in the fangs just a little. I'd like to ask you to do the same. Thanks.

You want me to talk about more WNBA? Everyone sits around and wonders why it isnt being talked about or covered more? The numbers to call in arent a secret. Use them. It shocks me that as committed and almost militant as many fans of the league are (as I am with the UFC), why WNBA fans in different cities havent gotten together on message boards like this one, and filled up the phone lines with WNBA questions.

Seriously, pause and think about that for a second. I'm really trying to help here.

It costs no money, and forces the subject to be spoken about. Most shows run no longer than 3 hours. Imagine what happens when 20 calls in those 3 hours are WNBA related. Would it be that hard?

Just my .02
Okay, I have a legitimate question. If you did receive those calls, would they get aired? And would the callers be treated with anything resembling respect? I'm serious. Your demographics - just like any other radio show- somewhat rule the day, don't they? Would you be able to seriously talk about the WNBA if it's brought up by a caller without shaping your comments to appeal to your 25-40 male listeners?
 
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#36
I don't expect or care, if some people don't like the WNBA anymore than I care or expect everybody to like figure-skating as much as I do. I prefer the NHL to what I consider an "unwatchable" sport these days, MLB. (And I grew up as a die hard baseball fan.)

What bothers me is there are all kinds of sports all over television. ("Sport" being a loose term for some of them, IMO) I can't believe some of them have more than a miniscule audience, probably less than the WNBA.

Yet for some reason, sports media people and a vocal part of their audience(mainly male) seem hell-bent on ranting and raving over and over and over about the existence of female professional basketball and how pathetic it is. If the WNBA is that bad, why do they waste so much airtime and/or ink discussing it at all?

All I can say is, if listeners get that worked up over Monarchs basketball taking up a few hours of airtime, they really need to get a life.

Sports radio is on 24 hours a day. If Monarchs occupied an entire 8 hours a week (which I'm pretty sure it doesn't) that's less than 5% of the total weekly airtime available. For a couple of hours, they can't change the channel or turn off the radio and go watch a gazillion sports choices on TV, or read about sports in newspapers, magazines or online, or talk to their friends about sports?

I don't listen to KHTK 24 hours a day (sorry). I find things to occupy me when KHTK is broadcasting something I don't care to listen to. I don't feel compelled to write nasty e-mails or make whiny phone calls about KHTK (or any other media outlet) not always broadcasting something I want to listen to, either.

Why? Because I understand there are sports subjects/events that some other people do want to listen to and discuss, even if I don't. I can't imagine being angry about that. I mean how self-centered does a person have to be to not acknowledge that the entire human race doesn't have exactly the same interests? Or how selfish does a person have to be to expect that one's own interests should always be catered to above everyone else?

As to the idea that the WNBA is being shoved down anyone's throat, that's just baloney. Every person can choose to ignore what doesn't interest them.

Altho I will admit, when my son was growing up, I did resent NBA basketball supporting the shoving of $200-300 Nikes at my son. It was hard to get HIM to ignore it.;)

Many of the same comments directed at the WNBA could be aimed at a lot of other niche or fledgling sports, but I can't recall it happening with anything near the same level of vitriol.

I don't think someone is misogynist, because they don't like or want to watch the WNBA. But the amount of time and effort expended by so many people on bashing the WNBA and the intensity of the loathing expressed, leaves me to conclude it has to be fueled by some general level of misogyny. Which, sadly, is hardly a new phenomenon.
 
#37
Come on, Dave. I asked the poster to whom you're replying to pull in the fangs just a little. I'd like to ask you to do the same. Thanks.



Okay, I have a legitimate question. If you did receive those calls, would they get aired? And would the callers be treated with anything resembling respect? I'm serious. Your demographics - just like any other radio show- somewhat rule the day, don't they? Would you be able to seriously talk about the WNBA if it's brought up by a caller without shaping your comments to appeal to your 25-40 male listeners?
1. I thought the "militant" comment might get taken the wrong way, but i tried to follow up in the same post saying i was also "militant" about the UFC. Wasnt trying to bite, but its all good.

2. As to your question, it is a very, very VERY good question. And yes, I must admit that it depends on the person calling in. I have no problem messing with people, but it depends on the individual. If some dingdong kid calls in being a goofball, i will goof on them. And yes, the first couple to few Monarchs calls may be met with a bit of goofing. I'm just being honest.

My point is, should those calls persist, and keep steady in their flow, we as hosts, and the audience, would be obligated to speak on the subject, and do some research on the topic. That would breed curiousity, which would grow into interest, possibly.

It cant hurt, can it?

BTW, Koz brought up this thread to me on our crosstalk this evening. I was wondering how long it would take before those emails started flowing his (and others) way. I certainly hope you all take the effort i am putting in to talk about this as a fair and open dialogue, and nothing more. I have no agenda, other than the fact that it wasnt too long ago I was a message board poster just like everyone else. In fact, I believe VF remembers that too. Actually, I still consider myself a message board addict, just one who has a mic in front of him for 3 hours a night. Truth be told, I miss being able to spout off without worrying about rules and who might say what to whom.

:)
 
#38
I go away for a few days and look what I missed......

I am a longtime Monarchs and a fan of the Carmichael Dave show(Well... Most days... Some are just unbearable frankly and Sean Thomas gets on my nerves when hes talking about Webb) Its a show for 18-34 guys and it shows on a lot of occasions.


With that said, I heard about this discussion mentioned last night when Koz mentioned it. And I heard last nights C Dave Show in which Dave talked about it while at a MMA show.

I also heard the show that started this thread. The impression I got from listening to it was that Dave was being sardonic. Knowing the reaction it would cause and because he came on after a Monarchs game, decided talk about it and get a reaction. He did both positively and negatively. Although he kept saying he was serious it never really came off that way.

I dont call much, rarely in fact but If I were to talk about the Monarchs on the station is would be Koz. Koz is the only one who seems to actually take the Narchs seriously and not think its a sport to drive 1140 busses over it cackling and making fun of it.

Rise Guys: Whitey is a fan. Phantom seems to be but F.P is fits ito the above. To the point where I want to pummel him into mush after each very cheap shot he delivers because he thinks its funny. Coach Boucek was on yesterday. F.P was silent.... thankfully

Sportsline: Neither care at all. It is known that callers are banned from talking about certain topics and im guessing the WNBA is on the banned list. Hard to say as I haven't listened much the last few months

Koz: Awesome.


If I recall correctly, Didn't the NHL help out the NBA in the beginning? I seem to remember reading that somewhere. NBA.com or something similiar.

btw Dave, That lady that you said you'd like to call your show is Keisha.
 
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VF21

Super Moderator Emeritus
SME
#39
BTW, Koz brought up this thread to me on our crosstalk this evening. I was wondering how long it would take before those emails started flowing his (and others) way. I certainly hope you all take the effort i am putting in to talk about this as a fair and open dialogue, and nothing more. I have no agenda, other than the fact that it wasnt too long ago I was a message board poster just like everyone else. In fact, I believe VF remembers that too. Actually, I still consider myself a message board addict, just one who has a mic in front of him for 3 hours a night. Truth be told, I miss being able to spout off without worrying about rules and who might say what to whom.

:)
Oh yes - I remember it well. ;)

And I want to thank you for taking the time to have this dialogue here. You're expressing the feelings of a lot of people and as long as the exchange of thoughts and beliefs can continue we all benefit IMHO.

Now, figure out a way for KHTK to reach all the way up here where I am and I might even call in one night.

:)
 
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#40
Let me start out addressing the caller thing...thank you for asking that VF21...I'll toss out what I'm going to affectionally call the "Grant Napear Corollary" Your station Dave, save Jim Kozimor's
Showgram or King/Monarchs Talk, is not very welcoming of WNBA callers. Hell, its barely welcoming to the WNBA at all. The reason why I've dubbed this after your colleague at the station - is that he says similarly to you..."I'd talk about it if anybody calls but nobody calls me therefore its not important enough to talk about" I think the implied portion of that corollary is "I can therefore also mock the league and its fans and everything they stand for" This sort of passive aggressiveness is a turnoff to callers Dave. FYI. If I can rip on Napear a moment...;) I am very anti-hypocrisy. VERY. The funny thing is that Napear USED to talk about the W and the Monarchs, I remember him hosting nearly a full hour of his drivetime show after the Monarchs had beaten a conference rival (the 2x defending league champions at the time) for the first time at ARCO back in 1999. The guy seemed genuinely excited as his callers were about how big that win was for this franchise. Somewhere, somehow the guy became anti-league and Monarchs. Not sure where that came from, but it bubbled up into him using an on air rip of MonarchsTalk as a promo for his show and him now saying nobody calls him anymore. Well, no %*%* they don't call him anymore.

The reason I am a long-time fan of Kozimor's is that his second night ever on KHTK, he introduces himself as the new host of KingsTalk and gives his background. He talked about his body of work as a broadcaster and spoke of his career with the Houston Comets with as much reverence and pride as any NBA team he has been a part of. That resonates to people and thusly he gets callers - not many but he gets the W callers. I can talk W during a call to his Showgram and even during a KingsTalk. He's that open. I don't listen to the Rise Guys all that much so I can't speak to how many callers they get. But, see the difference? It might be a chicken/egg situation - do we need to call to get you to take the league seriously or do you need to take the league seriously to get us to call. I have no idea. It might be useful to have callers call to talk about the game, but since you say you don't watch it and your audience doesn't watch it why would folks want to call your show and talk about it?

Your example re: UFC? Welcome to our world Dave. You see the difference between you and us? You have 50,000 watts of voice to give it legitimacy. Its a lot of work to get people to change their perceptions and take something serious innit? Monarchs fans need to use the 2 hours of 50,000 watts they get weekly too. Can't stress that enough.

As for Koz finding out about this thread and your musings about it and who else may have been contacted about it. I continue to be intrigued as to why you are concerned about that and treading dangerous waters. I mean you spent two hours spouting off Tuesday night and the reach of 1140's airwaves is a lot broader than than perhaps the number of people who have read this thread as I look at the view count. To me, you were far more offensive on air than you have been here. But also worth noting, MSE does lurk in our forum, probably more frequently than they lurk down the hall on the Kings side of this site, possibly because they need to know what we're thinking more because they are trying to grow the fan base . But they do lurk here.

On this we agree, WNBA fans need to be more "militant "and I've suggested in other threads, more proactive. MonarchsTalk equivalents are non existent across the league. If I can be so bold to go here...I believe we Monarchs fans have almost an obligation to support this show but since I'm being bold and reaching for my soapbox again, also of News10 and the Sacramento Bee. If you measured the amount of media we get here in Sacramento and compared it to other WNBA cities, we are nearly head and shoulders above what other teams get. Other fans around the league are starving for what ever media crumbs get thrown their favorite team's or the league's way. We get a dedicated show weekly and we need to support that. We need to let the Bee and News10 know we appreciate their coverage too.

No, the call-in numbers aren't secret, I or somebody else post them here every week. You want us on your show Dave, you won't get anybody to call to be for your or your audience's amusement. So if you are expecting that, I'd suggest you perhaps may need to lower your expectations. And since we're being honest? I would have called your show Tuesday night, but I honestly could not formulate airable comments. And you weren't talking about anything I felt worthy of addressing. You are much more engaging here and your comments are much more addressable here.

No, I don't want you talking about the W if you don't "feel it" that does this sport no good to introduce it to folks who know nothing about it except to take on your negative perceptions of it. If you need to feel the beast that is your anit-WNBA audience and that's a bigger priority for you, that again is not welcoming to the league's fans. Your show is likely going to follow every weekday home game or west coast road game the Monarchs have. If fans called to talk about the game that preceded your show, how could we if you say you don't watch it or care about it? Are you saying if we called you would be forced to do that?

That said, I'll call your show if you come to a regular season game...
 
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#41
p.s.. Dave...I'm watching the Connecticut Phoenix game at the moment. I'm sure you'll be shocked....but their arena is almost full to capacity. I haven't verified for sure....since I came into this game a lil after tip...but...I think all these people are there without having bought season tickets to their non-existent NBA franchise (unless the NBA expanded - then I'll stand corrected) I also can't verify if anybody's promised to dunk, or if they lowered the rims or shortened this court.

I also let you know if I can make out any conversations...they have the coach's mic'ed so that's interfering with my ability to hear the people talking in row W of section 212. That and the cheering these folks are doing...

Just thought you might want to tune in and see for yourself if you were near a television....

;)
 
#42
p.s.. Dave...I'm watching the Connecticut Phoenix game at the moment. I'm sure you'll be shocked....but their arena is almost full to capacity. I haven't verified for sure....since I came into this game a lil after tip...but...I think all these people are there without having bought season tickets to their non-existent NBA franchise (unless the NBA expanded - then I'll stand corrected) I also can't verify if anybody's promised to dunk, or if they lowered the rims or shortened this court.

I also let you know if I can make out any conversations...they have the coach's mic'ed so that's interfering with my ability to hear the people talking in row W of section 212. That and the cheering these folks are doing...

Just thought you might want to tune in and see for yourself if you were near a television....

;)
wow. you're right.

I did tune in.

I especially liked the 44.4 to 36.2 percent shooting from the field.

And you were also dead on. That 8,811 attendance (of which I'm sure were all paying customers, its not like a casino gives away comp tickets or anything) sure sounded deafening.

Since you decided to bring the nba into it, i believe the lowest NBA attendance was Memphis with 14,688 on average. This was the game you decided to use as an example?

What was I thinking. If you don't like that, you don't like WNBA basketball.
 
#44
10 NBA teams shot 45% or less for the entire 06/07 season (82 games). Including the Kings. Startling difference.
all i know is that in the two games i've paid ANY attention to this week, 3 of the 4 teams shot under 37 percent.

and again, i would stay away from vs. kings comparisons. then i come back and say that the kings shoot under 45% in front of 17,000 plus, also dunk, have every single game televised because the public craves watching them.....and it eventually degenerates into me being told if i dont like it, dont watch.....why am i comparing the two......etc etc....
 
#45
See? Toldya...Glad you did your homework and checked the stats. I might also suggest a big fat thank you since you seem to be the one causing the shooting to sink below 40% "regularly" in the games you watched. Hopefully you did not watch the Monarchs game tonight or pay attention to any of the other games tonight, since those games the percentages were "regularly" 40% or over.

Yeah, ticket giveaways. Novel idea there. Add that list to the ones you've suggested. Makes a helluva lotta sense for them to give tickets away since they do have to cover expenses on another ledger of their books.

I'm done here...
 
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#46
See? Toldya...Glad you did your homework and checked the stats. I might also suggest a big fat thank you since you seem to be the one causing the shooting to sink below 40% "regularly" in the games you watched. Hopefully you did not watch the Monarchs game tonight or pay attention to any of the other games tonight, since those games the percentages were "regularly" 40% or over.

Yeah, ticket giveaways. Novel idea there. Add that list to the ones you've suggested. Makes a helluva lotta sense for them to give tickets away since they do have to cover expenses on another ledger of their books.

I'm done here...
You're done?

Well, I for one have certainly enjoyed the last week of discussion. What started out as a comment on a show segment i did has turned into a cool exchange. I cannot say my opinion has changed, but that's what the world is for....differentiating opinions.

I admire and respect the people who do enjoy the sport, to each his/her own. I certainly am a fan of many sports (soccer, UFC, etc) that are sometimes met with indifference, or even rabid dislike.

Regardless of how I or any other people choose to spend their free time or television viewings, no one can take away that sports brings together all different walks of people, and creates spirited debates. IMO, that's the beauty of sport. Like it or not, it fills your spare time in one way or another, if you let it.
 
#47
Thank-you for ending on a positive note. Yes sports is a place to let go & live the dream through these talented athletes. Watching a WNBA game on TV is o.k , but nothing can compare to being in the Arena & watching the game live.So keep on comparing stats & attendance...& we true dedicated passionate fans will keep coming out & supporting our teams...Win or Lose.Most of the time if you love the sport of basketball...like myself, I watch it all college, high school, NBA, WNBA, ...Living in Sacramento, I support my home teams....Kings , Rivercats, & Monarchs.Come on out, sit with some fans, cool off on a summer eve. You won't be dissapointed.
 
#48
Carmichael Dave does have some valid points...money and ratings does talk and thus for those sports that does generate ratings/revenues, they will be accorded the most attention. For him, the WNBA does neither hense the minimal amount of air time on his show regarding the Monarchs or the WNBA.

If I use this logic and if I were in the same job position as Carmichael Dave, I might devote less air time to mixed martial arts ( a sport that CD appears to enjoy ) because I perticularly do not like the sport. HOWEVER, I would not go out of my way to bash a sport, it's fans or their players just because I do not like that sport.....this negative attititude is what I have the most frustrating time adjusting to when it comes to with the Monarchs or the WNBA in general
 

6th

Homer Fan Since 1985
#50
If it was positive airtime, then I am all for it. Thanks to everyone for a good and lively discussion while still keeping it respectful.
 
#51
Just thought I'd share the Monarch home opener stats (40 min):

51.6% FG
50.0% 3 pt FG
84.2% FT
11 Off RB
26 Total RB
17 Asst
9 Steals

And the Sparks were right there. The only big negative for the night was TOs to the tune of 20 each. Other than losing DeMya for the season, it was an exciting game.:)