Trade for Draymond

sauce-26

sauce-26

Starter
Listening to Carmichael Dave today he was suggesting trading Holmes and Barnes for Draymond. I think that actually could help us quite a bit. Thoughts?
 
That's a big nope.

The only "main" guy I'm dealing right now is Holmes because he's not in the rotation. But we're 7-2 over the last 9 games, the team is just getting better every game and we're coming off just an absolute trouncing of the Nets on National TV. I don't think the locker room has been this healthy in 16 years.

ESPECIALLY for a guy like Draymond where you have no idea how he'd react to be trading and could just totally blow things up if he's not committed. Maybe in the off-season, you go sign him if he actually wants to be here, but I'm not doing it mid-season and throwing that potential land-mine into this locker room.
 
I hate Draymond, and that’s an immediate yes. Holmes is deadweight, and Barnes brings nice intangibles and solid play but if the replacement is Draymond? You do this without even thinking twice.

Warriors laugh and hang up on us though.
 
SLAB said:
I hate Draymond, and that’s an immediate yes. Holmes is deadweight, and Barnes brings nice intangibles and solid play but if the replacement is Draymond? You do this without even thinking twice.

Warriors laugh and hang up on us though.
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Im not sure they do. Draymond does many things for them, but this season, he has not been doing those things well. Currently, the warriors are only getting wins when steph plays well. Their D has been garbage and still steph is the main engine. Draymond is not distributing well and if the games with the Kings showed anything, he COULD NOT handle Sabonis in the post. His one job out their is defend, rebound and distribute...none have been done well this year. With his rumors about needing a max/long term deal, and the warriors not having ponied up so far, I bet he will be moved before he walks. Wiseman and Kuminga no playing well hurts the warriors position vis a vis Draymond, but I still dont think they will pony up big bucks given his tirades and attack on a team mate. They just dont feel gelled like warriors teams do. I feel honestly, that Klay, Steph are looking like Dons/Kingpins and Draymond their enforcer. They seem to be distinctly separated from the rest of the team. So I think the warriors currently are in trouble Draymond is probably a big reason why. Barnes does many of the things draymond is supposed to (maybe not to the same level), but at least wont be a distraction. Steph being a supremely good shooter and very good playmaker, could probably utilize Holmes better than Fox/Sabonis and get the guy Hali used to run PnR with back to his former self. So I think the Warriors would consider it. I dont think it would be good for the Kings. I do think Draymond would be on good behavior here, but would leave and do a tell all episode on his podcast leading to probelms in the offseason.
 
I would probably do it. On a stacked offensive team he could be the piece that puts your defense in the top 17. Best case scenerio you make a serious run in the playoffs. If he opts out of his deal and wants to sign elsewhere you just opened up the books. I’m sure GS would expect off night too. That gets tough. I expect the Warriors to turn it around but if they don’t, they may have to trade DG
 
jiimbob said:
I’d like to get Mike Brown’s take on this trade.
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That actually didn't click for me, great point. Seems very unlikely that Dray would come here and cause problems for Mike, especially with how glowingly he talked about him last season. And talk about getting "the" best captain for the Kings defense who knows all the ins and outs of his system.

Still, I think the Warriors probably require Davion in any Dray package. And if we're trading Davion, I want a cost-controlled asset, not one who can walk in UFA after this season.
 
I'm just not sure after the locker room issues with him. I don't know what the locker room environment is with the Kings right now so adding a personality like Draymond could change the whole dynamic. He'd be the type of move you make if and when you stagnate. We don't even know what this teams ceiling is yet.
 
The_Jamal said:
Still, I think the Warriors probably require Davion in any Dray package. And if we're trading Davion, I want a cost-controlled asset, not one who can walk in UFA after this season.
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Monte would have to believe that Monk TD and Ellis offsets the loss off Off Night.

For this season you could bring Keegan off the bench and let him continue to grow.

Fox Monk
Huerter TD Ellis
Barnes Murray
Green Lyles
Sabonis Metu
 
Barnes has played out of his slump. I don't know what he's like in the locker room but have always heard he's a leader which is just as much a reason he's around as much as his actual play.

Two weeks ago I wouldn't have thought twice. Right now, not so sure. Especially since this is just as likely to help the Warriors who are presently in a tailspin.
 
Normally, even with the poor start to the season by both Draymond and the Warriors as a whole, Golden State wouldn't even consider trading him. But after he clocked Poole (with the leaked footage showing exactly how bad that situation was) and with him talking about an extension at age 32, they actually might.

But putting aside whether the trade itself is feasible, here's my issue: Harrison Barnes is shooting about as poorly as he has at any point in his career and he's still shooting 25% from 3 on 3.4 attempts per game. Green is shooting 21% on just over 1 attempt per game. The Kings offense needs shooters around Sabonis & Fox to be effective.

Now, if you told me that Green would be happy in a role as Sabonis' backup, then he's a very expensive luxury, but pretty much a perfect fit there. But I don't see that he would. And as a starter he duplicates some of what Sabonis does on offense (playmaking, screening, some interior scoring) while not stretching the floor.

From a talent perspective it's a good deal for the Kings. But I don't know that it would actually make them better.
 
funkykingston said:
Normally, even with the poor start to the season by both Draymond and the Warriors as a whole, Golden State wouldn't even consider trading him. But after he clocked Poole (with the leaked footage showing exactly how bad that situation was) and with him talking about an extension at age 32, they actually might.

But putting aside whether the trade itself is feasible, here's my issue: Harrison Barnes is shooting about as poorly as he has at any point in his career and he's still shooting 25% from 3 on 3.4 attempts per game. Green is shooting 21% on just over 1 attempt per game. The Kings offense needs shooters around Sabonis & Fox to be effective.

Now, if you told me that Green would be happy in a role as Sabonis' backup, then he's a very expensive luxury, but pretty much a perfect fit there. But I don't see that he would. And as a starter he duplicates some of what Sabonis does on offense (playmaking, screening, some interior scoring) while not stretching the floor.

From a talent perspective it's a good deal for the Kings. But I don't know that it would actually make them better.
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If we are to try on a defensive player with a limited offense toolset and potential off-court issues, I'd check Ben Simmons' availability first.
 
QWERTYLICIOUS said:
If we had to pick between going after Simmons, or going after Draymond, I'd go after Draymond 9.9/10 times.
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Simmons is an even worse fit with Fox & Sabonis because if you take the ball out of his hands he's not at all useful on offense and if you let him essentially be the PG you're diminishing De'Aaron and Domas' value on offense.
 
funkykingston said:
Normally, even with the poor start to the season by both Draymond and the Warriors as a whole, Golden State wouldn't even consider trading him. But after he clocked Poole (with the leaked footage showing exactly how bad that situation was) and with him talking about an extension at age 32, they actually might.

But putting aside whether the trade itself is feasible, here's my issue: Harrison Barnes is shooting about as poorly as he has at any point in his career and he's still shooting 25% from 3 on 3.4 attempts per game. Green is shooting 21% on just over 1 attempt per game. The Kings offense needs shooters around Sabonis & Fox to be effective.

Now, if you told me that Green would be happy in a role as Sabonis' backup, then he's a very expensive luxury, but pretty much a perfect fit there. But I don't see that he would. And as a starter he duplicates some of what Sabonis does on offense (playmaking, screening, some interior scoring) while not stretching the floor.

From a talent perspective it's a good deal for the Kings. But I don't know that it would actually make them better.
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Yeah and him playing significantly better since the CLE game is a big reason we're on the 4-game win streak. While Huerter has absolutely carried the spacing and you expect him to regress, I think Barnes is already showing signs of good positive regression going 6/14 from 3 for 42% over the last 4 games.

I think Dray is better suited as a guy to go get in FA so you're 100% convinced he's going to buy-in with Brown. Trading mid-season with the team chemistry at it's peak form and the Kings being an elite offense so far.... probably not the smartest move.
 
The thought i have is we have the 2nd highest ranked offense in the league but like 27th ranked defense. While losing barnes offense could potentially sting, assuming you get draymond’s typical defensive presence it could be enough to drastically improve our defense enough to put us middle of the pack.
 
funkykingston said:
Simmons is an even worse fit with Fox & Sabonis because if you take the ball out of his hands he's not at all useful on offense and if you let him essentially be the PG you're diminishing De'Aaron and Domas' value on offense.
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Good point. I had failed to remember that he was the once-in-a-lifetime PG prospect coming out of college and all his efficiency comes from having the ball in his hands. I was only under the assumption that he'll be a 6'11" wing but then again he couldn't even 3-and-D for anybody without the ball.
 
The_Jamal said:
Yeah and him playing significantly better since the CLE game is a big reason we're on the 4-game win streak. While Huerter has absolutely carried the spacing and you expect him to regress, I think Barnes is already showing signs of good positive regression going 6/14 from 3 for 42% over the last 4 games.

I think Dray is better suited as a guy to go get in FA so you're 100% convinced he's going to buy-in with Brown. Trading mid-season with the team chemistry at it's peak form and the Kings being an elite offense so far.... probably not the smartest move.
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Yeah, risky to take him on.

But I think our biggest need is the offseason is a 3/4 flex who can come off the bench for 25 minutes and be as important as Monk except with a commitment to wing defense. And then maybe a 16 MPG shotblocker.

You can find those guys, and find those guys who don't have baggage on top of it.

And honestly, keep this up and I think we should be starting to look at a Barnes extension. He's more valuable to us than anyone else really, and more valuable on a good team than as the vet to a rebuilding one.
 
funkykingston said:
Normally, even with the poor start to the season by both Draymond and the Warriors as a whole, Golden State wouldn't even consider trading him. But after he clocked Poole (with the leaked footage showing exactly how bad that situation was) and with him talking about an extension at age 32, they actually might.

But putting aside whether the trade itself is feasible, here's my issue: Harrison Barnes is shooting about as poorly as he has at any point in his career and he's still shooting 25% from 3 on 3.4 attempts per game. Green is shooting 21% on just over 1 attempt per game. The Kings offense needs shooters around Sabonis & Fox to be effective.

Now, if you told me that Green would be happy in a role as Sabonis' backup, then he's a very expensive luxury, but pretty much a perfect fit there. But I don't see that he would. And as a starter he duplicates some of what Sabonis does on offense (playmaking, screening, some interior scoring) while not stretching the floor.

From a talent perspective it's a good deal for the Kings. But I don't know that it would actually make them better.
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Spot on. We all love what Draymond would bring on defense but he's not a good fit on offense considering we'd be losing one of our (statistically) better shooters to fit him into the lineup and he's too expensive to gamble on. The team is rolling right now anyway so there's no urgency to make a change. Good players are available at the trade deadline every season and seeing a "once in a generation" talent there at the top this year is probably going to push even more teams than usual to clear house and race for the bottom. We just need to be patient.
 
The Effort Police said:
Yeah, risky to take him on.

But I think our biggest need is the offseason is a 3/4 flex who can come off the bench for 25 minutes and be as important as Monk except with a commitment to wing defense. And then maybe a 16 MPG shotblocker.

You can find those guys, and find those guys who don't have baggage on top of it.

And honestly, keep this up and I think we should be starting to look at a Barnes extension. He's more valuable to us than anyone else really, and more valuable on a good team than as the vet to a rebuilding one.
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Yeah, HB that drops 16-8-2 on 7 shots and 7-8 from the FT line absolutely deserves an extension. Where things get weird is if you resign him, the Kings are basically out of money for like the next 5+ years. Monk/Sabonis extension the year after, Fox is the year after that, then Davion/Keegan are off their rookie deals. So while I don't think we'll have a ton of cap, I'm pretty sure this is probably the last summer where the core we might be able to do something in UFA.

TD and Lyles have been great, but I think it's fairly unlikely we keep them past this season. So, ideally, you'd want to get some sort of return, but they've also been crucially important role players off the bench. Holmes is the biggest available "trade" piece, but you're basically hoping you can get someone to bite on an expiring for him at this point. It's tricky because McNair is now in a spot where the offense is so much better than initially expected, that you don't want to move any of the core pieces, but you're out of picks/trade ammo to find players that can fix the defense. Davion is probably the "most" expendable of the core guys, but on a team full of not good defenders, it doesn't really make sense to me to trade the only good one on the team. And as we saw tonight, he can just straight up win you a game with that defense.
 
The_Jamal said:
Yeah, HB that drops 16-8-2 on 7 shots and 7-8 from the FT line absolutely deserves an extension. Where things get weird is if you resign him, the Kings are basically out of money for like the next 5+ years. Monk/Sabonis extension the year after, Fox is the year after that, then Davion/Keegan are off their rookie deals. So while I don't think we'll have a ton of cap, I'm pretty sure this is probably the last summer where the core we might be able to do something in UFA.

TD and Lyles have been great, but I think it's fairly unlikely we keep them past this season. So, ideally, you'd want to get some sort of return, but they've also been crucially important role players off the bench. Holmes is the biggest available "trade" piece, but you're basically hoping you can get someone to bite on an expiring for him at this point. It's tricky because McNair is now in a spot where the offense is so much better than initially expected, that you don't want to move any of the core pieces, but you're out of picks/trade ammo to find players that can fix the defense. Davion is probably the "most" expendable of the core guys, but on a team full of not good defenders, it doesn't really make sense to me to trade the only good one on the team. And as we saw tonight, he can just straight up win you a game with that defense.
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I don't think it gets quite as dire, Fox has one more year than what you thought and Huerter and Murray are locked up through theirs at the same rate. Ideally, I'd like to get Barnes on a 3 year deal to coincide with when Huerter, Fox, and Murray are up for new deals.

I just don't know who we're going to get that's better than Barnes going forward unless we're in position to draft another Murray. Unless you can get a star forward (not happening) or pilfer a rookie-deal prospect (also not happening), we have to work in that Barnes/Bojan/J. Grant tier of forwards. That's the most important position in the NBA by a long shot right now, and we're still a bit lean on it without many ways to upgrade it.

Hence the 25 MPG 3/4 flex, ideally I'd like to squeeze the TD/Lyles part of the rotation to one player who impacts the game more than both of them do individually. And I'm not really interested in players that are going to break the offensive flow in exchange for their defense a la Ben Simmons or Draymond. OPJ if he opts out of his contract maybe?

And maybe Bismack Biyombo or Ibaka as the bargain bin back-up center. I would've said Brook Lopez but whoops looks like he's not slowing down yet.
 
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If we could get a warm body over 6’9 that can shoot just 25% from deep and play defense I’m trading Holmes for them. Metu is not good enough to get this much playing time considering the rest of our rotation. Lyles has his moments. Holmes needs to go and I’m willing to throw in 1st rounder this year for the right guy
 
Green is one of the biggest a holes in NBA history. Just when the Kings are finally playing like a team you want to bring in a jerk with a bad attitude. He is like Cousins without the scoring.
 
ppine said:
Green is one of the biggest a holes in NBA history. Just when the Kings are finally playing like a team you want to bring in a jerk with a bad attitude. He is like Cousins without the scoring.
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I can understand not wanting Green but I don’t think this is an accurate assessment. He is a complainer on the court but as far as I can tell well liked and respected among NBA players. He’s crossed the line a couple times but has also been one of the best defenders in the game and a solid connector.
 
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