Carl Landry is proving to be our future star power forward
- Thread starter K F Jay
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Bricklayer
Don't Make Me Use The Bat
Adjectives to describe Landry would be more like good, solid, productive, tough. Thats not a star, thats a roleplayer. If Landry could bring down 10 a game then he would be a borderline all star. But unfortunately he only has 2 or 3 10reb games all year. He should have better rebounding numbers, especially with Hawes in there doing nothing half the time. All in all he is a great 6th/7th man who just happens to be playing on a young team where he's able to start. Great scoring efficiency but thats about it. All in all I'm happy with the trade.
Bricklayer
Don't Make Me Use The Bat
Quite a few, but that's not it. Mailman was a full, and I do mean FULL sized PF, one of the most powerful of all time. And Barkley was a complete athletic freak. People throw that name around who maybe didn't see him to realize just how freaky he was. Could just flat out jump out of the gym. Had freakish strength. Arms down to his ankles. Comparing anyone to him based just on height is ridiuclous. Its like pointing to Ime Udoka and saying well he's 6'8" like Gerald Wallace.
Sparky6string
Bench
According to who? Not the tape when his shoes were off.
Chuck had a great two foot planted vertical. Moved well and never had a strength issue versus other PFs. Ye Olde Kenny Thomas had a great leaping ability as well, but never the strength or basketball wits of Chuck. Landry is just crafty inside, but he's never going to be dunking in people's faces. I keep seeing him as the PF version of Bojax. Ideally, you want him charging off the bench.
Henkel
Starter
I agree with every word of this post.
People need to stop talking like we have a shot of getting Bosh. Not happening.
Sparky6string
Bench
Chuck also had a massive wing span, what I was getting at was that they used what they had.
But I disagree about Carl's hops- he can jump and dunks in people's faces regularly.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JfTos3znToY
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5HIbzmJeB9U
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5ZpTLoQaWxQ
Plenty more on Youtube.
Sparky6string
Bench
I don't understand. So I can't compare short people to Barkley? What if they had long arms and could jump, then can I? I was pointing out that there is a place for shorter people at the 4 if they know what to do with what they have.
Isn't Corey Maggette at the 4 for GS? Nellie probably had more centers and PFs under 6'8 than over. Like Byron Houston. Remember how Hakeem used to keep Shaq off the block? I don't care what Randy Newman says, it just takes smarts.
bajaden
Hall of Famer
bajaden
Hall of Famer
It didn't hurt that Barkley had a great post game. Bernard King wasn't a giant either, but you couldn't stop him once he got near the basket. Dantley was another one. Were talking about very skilled as well as good athlete's.
The question to ask is whether West, or Milsap, or Haslem etc. are stars. Because thats where I see Landry. In that group. And there's nothing wrong with that group. But please don't compare him with the likes of Malone or Barkley. Not you of course Bricky.
bajaden
Hall of Famer
You were doing real well until you brought up Nellie and Maggette. Please, there's Nellie's world of basketball and then there's the real world of basketball.
bajaden
Hall of Famer
By the way, after doing some research this was the best I could do..
Some barefoot heights from the Olympics
1992 Olympics
Charles Barkley 6'4 5/8"
Karl Malone 6'8"
Magic Johnson 6'7 1/4"
John Stockton 6'0"
Clyde Drexler 6'5"
So that would make Malone 6'9" in shoes.. Plus Barkley would be closer to 6'6" in shoes, which I believe is what he was listed at in the NBA.
Some barefoot heights from the Olympics
1992 Olympics
Charles Barkley 6'4 5/8"
Karl Malone 6'8"
Magic Johnson 6'7 1/4"
John Stockton 6'0"
Clyde Drexler 6'5"
So that would make Malone 6'9" in shoes.. Plus Barkley would be closer to 6'6" in shoes, which I believe is what he was listed at in the NBA.
roasthawg
Starter
Yeah, exactly... he's in that group of players. All of those guys are good power forwards and Landry is too. The great thing about Landry is that he's a good starter that can also come off the bench if we are able to acquire a star PF. But he's good enough to start there for us too and allow us to look at other positions (namely Center).
ParniValjak
All-Star
Landry is a good player in this league. Ideally, you want him as a the 6th man on your team. However, if he were to be your full time sarter then you have to make sure that your center is one hell of a rebounder/defender/shot blocker with genuine size. Landry's rebounding for a PF is below average. Hell even Amare is grabbing more rebounds than Landry.
Seriously can anyone here see Landry having a 20 rebound game?! He struggles to get up to 10 for most of the season.
SacTownKid
Hall of Famer
The one advantage of a player like Landry is that your most assuredly going to pay less for him than that of a Bosh level player. It allows you to build a much stronger overall unit, and if the savings and timing is right, maybe fill the position next to him with a superstar level player. Then you're all the better off in the end.
Sparky6string
Bench
Wow 4 posts in a row! Yeah well he shows that what some of us believe impossible to be possible. I hear you, and he drives me nuts sometimes but there is something to his ideas sometimes.
SacTownKid
Hall of Famer
Which shouldn't be the most difficult thing in the world to do. Put him next to a rebounding/shotblocking machine a la Marcus Camby and you have an excellently complimentary front court. If you pack in the talent at the SG and SF spots we could easily get away with having a player like Tyson Chandler, Marcin Gortat, Kendrick Perkins, Sam Dalembert, Brendan Haywood, Hasheem Thabeet, Emeka Okafor, or Joel Przybilla manning that spot. Just so happens some of those players could be available and there are a few more in the same mold in the upcoming draft if they so choose to declare.
Tetsujin
The Game Thread Dude
Just got back from the Season Tix Holder event. Carl seemed like a real nice guy. I was the last guy to get his autograph before he left. He took my pen on his way out though.
(Not really related to the topic but I really didn't feel like elaborating and/or making a new topic)
(Not really related to the topic but I really didn't feel like elaborating and/or making a new topic)
Sparky6string
Bench
Job perqs- he's got a hell of a pen collection.
Tetsujin
The Game Thread Dude
lol. He was taller than Dorsey, which I wasn't expecting.
The Brockness Monster scared me. Probably the nicest mean guy around.
He's good at making his guys take contested jump shots. That's all you can ask for. It works against most NBA players in the league only when an Al Jefferson comes to town and is knocking 'em down. Against the Raps Bosh was clanking them so it works both ways. That's why every team in the league has to double team those types of players when they catch fire. Landry is a scrappy defender as well who does the little things to create turnovers such as deflecting passes, etc..
w/Hou 0.4 SPG
w/Kings 1.1 SPG
*Steals per game. He's also had 1 block in 4 out of the last 5 games.
It must suck entering the NBA and fans want to label you a sixth man before you even get a chance to prove yourself. And to clarify any misunderstandings I didn't mean to sound like Landry is already a star. He's not, but he might one day "future" become one. So yes if we were to get a Bosh, Jefferson, etc type player then its ok to move Landry to the bench. I'd much rather focus on getting Defense Interior help first. Put a BIG Interior Defender next to Landry and we should be ok.
w/Hou 0.4 SPG
w/Kings 1.1 SPG
*Steals per game. He's also had 1 block in 4 out of the last 5 games.
It must suck entering the NBA and fans want to label you a sixth man before you even get a chance to prove yourself. And to clarify any misunderstandings I didn't mean to sound like Landry is already a star. He's not, but he might one day "future" become one. So yes if we were to get a Bosh, Jefferson, etc type player then its ok to move Landry to the bench. I'd much rather focus on getting Defense Interior help first. Put a BIG Interior Defender next to Landry and we should be ok.
Bricklayer
Don't Make Me Use The Bat
There are actually three flaws wiht Carl's game, and I don't think they are significantly correctable this late into his career (and well past any potential growth spurt):
Here are his stats for us:
17.1pts 6.8reb 0.8ast 1.1st 0.5blk 1.5TO
The things highlighted in red are the issues, or indicative of them.
1) he is a very poor rebounder for his position. Not semi-poor. But very poor. Let's put it this way, he is 160th in the league in Reb/48 this season. The three players just ahead of him on the list this year are Desmond Mason, Charlie Villanueva, and Vladimir Radmanovic. This is a major issue closely tied to his lack of size. And some small guys have a knack for overcoming it. Carl clearly does not. Unless we pair him with Dwight Howard up front we will get beat in the frontcourt on the glass nearly every night.
2) He is a bit of a black hole. Once that ball goes into him in the post, it does not come out. It makes it hard to run a fluid offense. And nothing about Carl Landry remotely suggests a selfish player. But on the court the effect is the same. The ball goes in, it does not come out. And his numbers are similar to what they have been his whole career. He is a scorer, but rarely a passer. This is the one area where he could improve, but as noted, this has consistently been him. And before you say well hes a PF, he does not need to pass, its a matter of degree. Less than one assist a game is normally reserved for big lumbering centers with no offensive skills and bad hands. Even noted blackhole Zach Randoplh averages 1.9ast. Its a very distinct trait with Carl. Would not surprise me if his is the lowest number of any starting PF in the league.
3) I highlighted the shotblocking, because of course that will always be true -- he's too small to be much of ahelp defender. But defense as a whole will always be somewhat of an issue. And on this one he;s at least a tough and physcial guy who will compete. But he's too small, and so its kind of like the Kenny Thomas thing, except wihtout the rebounding. He will compete, but he will always be vulnderable to being overwhelemd or shot over.
And the funny thing is despite all that, I like him. He feels very solid, very dependable, very professional out there. At the very least a solid trustworthy fill in guy for however long we need it. His impact feels bigger than the numbers, and he's stabilized a messy position for us. But he's got a variety of key traits that are not just mediocre, but actually well below average, and unless we can somehow magically find a way to start him alongside a big defensive post playing monster of a center who can cover for him, his traits really do have the long term mark of more of a 6th man. Holes in his game, not looking to pass, but comes in firing and looking to attack on offense every second.
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I kind of agree. Knowing Petrie, I am pretty sure all the Kings would be ble to come out in that posisiton is a 6th man type player like Landry, except when he gets lucky to pick a star-level power forward in the coming draft. Landry looks very good indeed in this unbalanced team just like Martin had looked good with us for a long time before.
BTW, are you referring to that future as the time when we are ready to contend for the playoffs and when Landry has to match up with the likes of Pau Gasol, Lamar Odom, Kevin Garnett, ( etc. )or even Dwight Howard at times?
If yes, then goodluck to us fans especially that it looks like Hawes will also be the "future center" to be paired with Landry.
Sparky6string
Bench
Excellent post Brick and I agree. More than anything I wish he had a knack for the glass, I could let everything else go. Regarding the assists in Houston he was more of a garbage scorer wasn't he? When he gets the ball here it's often Tyreke passing after penetrating to the guy in best scoring position. Even still those numbers are low though. What blocks he does get come from help defense because of his leaping ability but I guess he lacks the timing necessary for it to be a regular tool.
What I would prefer is to see snappier team defense out of him and the other guys. No Carl won't block guys shots in their face like Camby but he can deny his man position and rotate quickly. Actually I wish we had better team offense too, with better ball movement on the perimeter.
What I would prefer is to see snappier team defense out of him and the other guys. No Carl won't block guys shots in their face like Camby but he can deny his man position and rotate quickly. Actually I wish we had better team offense too, with better ball movement on the perimeter.
