Can the Kings Protest?
- Thread starter Merdiesel
- Start date
Glad to see they officially filed a protest. I really wouldn't be surprised if this was the first game the league overturned the result for given that the refs possibly blew it on two different reviewable parts of the play and the evidence is there to prove it definitively (hooray for math and physics!). I also wouldn't be surprised if they didn't overturn it and gave us a "Mistakes happen, we'll re-visit how these plays are reviewed after the season" and come up with a more accurate way of reviewing these last second shots.
Either way, I look forward to the ruling. I think only good can come of it, whether it be the result is overturned and we get the W or the league opens it's eyes and gets some smart people on their replay team who know how to use the technology correctly. Honestly, this shouldn't even be decided by the refs on the court. The NBA needs to invest in a full-time replay officiating unit like the MLB and NHL do and have them reviewing plays to expedite the process.
Either way, I look forward to the ruling. I think only good can come of it, whether it be the result is overturned and we get the W or the league opens it's eyes and gets some smart people on their replay team who know how to use the technology correctly. Honestly, this shouldn't even be decided by the refs on the court. The NBA needs to invest in a full-time replay officiating unit like the MLB and NHL do and have them reviewing plays to expedite the process.
interesting video posted in the Memphis forum that allows you to do slomo
http://official.nba.com/archive/387-last-second-field-goal-kings-at-grizzlies/
http://official.nba.com/archive/387-last-second-field-goal-kings-at-grizzlies/
That's what I think too. I agree that option #3 above will probably be the ruling here, but I sincerely hope that this ending shows the league that the on-court refs shouldn't be reviewing the replay on a final play of the game. They completely screwed this one up, and I think it's because (a) they thought they were right and (b) they wanted to get out of there.
Let the replay center make the actual decision at the end of the game, and let them use the cutting edge video replay technology and get it right. Otherwise, why are they there? To recommend that bad calls stand as called? We already had that, thanks.
Let the replay center make the actual decision at the end of the game, and let them use the cutting edge video replay technology and get it right. Otherwise, why are they there? To recommend that bad calls stand as called? We already had that, thanks.
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Wonder how many people already got payed out for betting on the Grizzlies. How does that work if the NBA changes the win to the Kings? 
Ive officially change my stance. There is a ice cubes chance in phoenix this gets overturned. Especially since silver just came out pro gambling. The gambling industry is very very powerful.
Yes, I had the same thought... but isn't this exactly what Donaghy accused the league of doing: valuing the financial bottom line over the unbiased outcome of a basketball game? If they decide not to overturn this because of pressure from the gambling industry, it's starting to look like the tail is wagging the dog at that point isn't it?
They only show the angles where the frame doesn't show Hollins' hand touch or pass through the ball. Also doesn't show the shot clock never starting. This kind of analysis is full of ignorance and horse blinders.
Two types of people I hate the most out of this fiasco:
1. Memphis fans ignoring the evidence so they can have their miracle 0.3 layup.
2. Everyone else for being complacent that the NBA will not change the game's outcome just to save face. No, if enough people care and actually voice their opinion and shove the evidence at the NBA from now til December 2nd, then justice will be served.
2.5. Everyone who says the Kings don't deserve the win for blowing a 20+ lead. No, that does not change the fact that the basket shouldn't count if Hollins did tip the ball (spin + trajectory change).
Two types of people I hate the most out of this fiasco:
1. Memphis fans ignoring the evidence so they can have their miracle 0.3 layup.
2. Everyone else for being complacent that the NBA will not change the game's outcome just to save face. No, if enough people care and actually voice their opinion and shove the evidence at the NBA from now til December 2nd, then justice will be served.
2.5. Everyone who says the Kings don't deserve the win for blowing a 20+ lead. No, that does not change the fact that the basket shouldn't count if Hollins did tip the ball (spin + trajectory change).
someone already sent it to him on Twitter. That's how i saw it.
But i think they need to focus on proving Hollins tipped the ball. With him holding the ball for .34 the NBA will just chalk up that .04 to human error on starting the clock and say no big deal. I'm sure a ton of game winners wouldn't count if someone went back afterwards and did a true analysis on how long the ball was in the players hand
But i think they need to focus on proving Hollins tipped the ball. With him holding the ball for .34 the NBA will just chalk up that .04 to human error on starting the clock and say no big deal. I'm sure a ton of game winners wouldn't count if someone went back afterwards and did a true analysis on how long the ball was in the players hand
I think you guys are becoming too invested in a very unlikely event.
As I said at the time its important to fight it and go through the motions, but you can't get to the point where you actually expect it or worry if its not changed. Many more games to be played, and would be a fairly unprecedented action. If it happens, great. If it doesn't...well save your ire for when we miss the playoffs by 1 game.
As I said at the time its important to fight it and go through the motions, but you can't get to the point where you actually expect it or worry if its not changed. Many more games to be played, and would be a fairly unprecedented action. If it happens, great. If it doesn't...well save your ire for when we miss the playoffs by 1 game.
Someone posted a good counter-argument to this video on reddit. Basically, we really need to count on there being enough evidence that Hollins tipped the ball.
Fans and officials can harp on about this forever, but Bricklayer is right. Lucky for us the team already moved on to focus on their next games.
Fans and officials can harp on about this forever, but Bricklayer is right. Lucky for us the team already moved on to focus on their next games.
There was a baseline camera angle that was shown while they were shuffling through the replay angles on tv that showed Hollins hand being bent backwards in an unnatural way as the ball passed it. Following this the direction of the spin on the ball immediately changed. It would require a miracle of physics for these things to happen without hollins's hand touching the ball.
Fair warning. If past performance is the best indicator of future action (and it is) Then it is extremely likely the NBA will change nothing, but might acknowledge the problem and even offer a future fix. They MIGHT do something they have very rarely done in the past and order a replay of the last .3 of the game. ("You mean there's a chance?") But I don't even know how to calculate the odds of them doing something they have NEVER done before and just flat intervene and change the final sore and change the L to a W.
The NBA will not replay the last 0.3 seconds. That makes absolutely no sense at all. There was an instance many years ago where they replayed the final minute of a game because they mistakenly disqualified Shaq from the game despite Shaq having only 5 fouls. That absolutely had the potential to affect the outcome on the floor. But the issue here, whether NBA were to rule that the tip occured (a possible ruling) or that Lee held the ball too long (a very unlikely ruling), would be moot. In either case, the game clock has run out before the shot, therefore the game is over. You don't pretend that the Grizz are the 1972 Russian Olympic Team and keep giving them more and more chances to score. Either Lee's shot was good, or it did not get off in time, and the game result depends on that and that only.
Most likely, the NBA falls back on "non-reversal of a judgment call" to keep the result the way it is. But the only logical remedy that they can take, if they choose to take one, is to reverse the game result.
Most likely, the NBA falls back on "non-reversal of a judgment call" to keep the result the way it is. But the only logical remedy that they can take, if they choose to take one, is to reverse the game result.
indeed. "non-reversal of a judgment call" seems the most obvious course of action. the league will absolutely hesitate to set an unnerving precedent for end-of-game scenarios such as this one, regardless of how justified the kings may be in their appeal. the only way i see the nba reversing the game result is if they truly feel pressured by the realities of the social media age. with so many fans able to watch, capture, and dissect video footage, there's an entirely new and burgeoning contingent of forensics "experts" out there, doing the dirty work that professional sports leagues are ordinarily disinclined to shine a big, bright light on. that said, i give adam silver a lot of credit for projecting immense strength as commish since he took over for david stern; i sincerely doubt that he'll throw his refs under the bus over a judgment call during a regular season game in november...
Well if you wanted to quantify the probability you could if you like. In 65 years how many times has the NBA supported the call on court? How many times have they asked the teams to replay the last part of a game and how often have they changed the out come of a game. I honestly was not interested enough in the precise numbers to hunt down the data but but my to the best of my limited knowledge in virtually every protest situation the NBA had let the score stand. Hence my use of the term "extremely likely" in only a few situations has the NBA supported the protest. In the Stern years there was the Hawks Heat, and under O'Brien there were 2 the Plilly Nets game in 78 and the famous Nixon balk in the Spurs Lakers play off game in 82, both of which resulted in the teams replaying the last second or so on the clock. Some one with a better memory than mine might remember the details but I believe that there might have been a few others under Kennedy and Podolof. But I am pretty sure none of the protests ever led to the NBA actually changing the outcome of the game directly, there MO in the only 3 examples I can remember was to replay the disputed time. In this case the argument really boils down to a miss-started clock no matter how you slice it. Again I think we both agree that in all likely hood the league will do as is usually does and we get bubkiss. I just expect that if they do support the protest they are likely to do as they have rarely done rather than as they have never done.
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This probably would have been 100% correct last season,....but things have changed now, with addition of the replay center. I think it greatly increases the chances of this getting overturned. It takes much of the focus off of the officials for this game, because what is being considered is not really possible to see with the human eye at real speed...or even looking at a replay and trying to decide within a "reasonable" amount of time at the game