Can the Kings Protest?

Bricklayer

Bricklayer

Don't Make Me Use The Bat
#151
#151
well the report that we were appealing was spread far beyond just Kings boards, so I assume that we did.

Its actually an interesting situation in that its the one and only situation where they could theoretically overturn a call, change the outcome of the game, without it having any secondary reprecussions. It was the final play of the game, make or miss. That said its virtually impossible to imagine them actually overturning it. Maybe just maybe we could get a baseball style oopsy! admission, but given how incredibly tight the call was even on replay, I have my doubts. Important to protest it, to show you're going to fight for everything you're due. But we ain't going to get it.
 
HereWeBoogie

HereWeBoogie

Hall of Famer
#154
#154
Bricklayer said:
well the report that we were appealing was spread far beyond just Kings boards, so I assume that we did.

Its actually an interesting situation in that its the one and only situation where they could theoretically overturn a call, change the outcome of the game, without it having any secondary reprecussions. It was the final play of the game, make or miss. That said its virtually impossible to imagine them actually overturning it. Maybe just maybe we could get a baseball style oopsy! admission, but given how incredibly tight the call was even on replay, I have my doubts. Important to protest it, to show you're going to fight for everything you're due. But we ain't going to get it.
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I agree. I have a feeling they will say something like "Though it appears the ball was tipped by Ryan Hollins, these videos that show it are not officially licensed NBA videos" or some crap like that
 
G

Gilles

Starter
#155
#155
Well, it's a question of what really happened, so unless they challenge the authenticity of those amateur videos, they can be entered as "new evidence". :D
Still I agree chances of anything happening is extremely slim as in close to 1 in 10000, but their widely advertised multimillion system really failed to get a clean look at a really important moment of a game, which is pretty embarrassing regardless of the result.
 
2

206Fan

All-Star
#156
#156
nebs said:
I saw Pete D on the local news being interviewed and he was saying they were going to do everything in their power to try and get it overturned.
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Thanks! I hope we get it overturned. I think the new commissioner will look good if he gives the Kings the correct call.
 
2

206Fan

All-Star
#157
#157
Gilles said:
Well, it's a question of what really happened, so unless they challenge the authenticity of those amateur videos, they can be entered as "new evidence". :D
Still I agree chances of anything happening is extremely slim as in close to 1 in 10000, but their widely advertised multimillion system really failed to get a clean look at a really important moment of a game, which is pretty embarrassing regardless of the result.
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That's what pissed me off more than anything... stupid refs decided to look at an angle where the ball already hit his hand... I'm not sure why they didn't slowly stop it frame by frame to see the ball rotate caused by a deflection. It looked like the Refs had all the power there. I'm pretty sure these refs just wanted to leave... they literally take longer to review flagrant and clear path fouls... this call determines the game.

The NBA Replay Center has failed the Kings.
 
M

mdme

Bench
#158
#158
It's not that we deserved to lose. ...it's that Memphis didn't deserve to win because at the end of 48 minutes, they scored 1 less point than us.

Simple as that.

That being said I hope this galvanizes the team to learn to play for the full 48 minutes and not relax once they get a lead.

I hope this galvanizes the team to play with a chip on its shoulder and finally play FOR each other.
 
IfAt1st

IfAt1st

Starter
#160
#160
If we're all waiting for some national/league outlets to pick up this "hot story" of how the Kings got royally screwed, I think we'll be waiting a long time - it seems to have been ignored almost completely in the hustle and bustle of the NBA schedule.

If any fuss is going to be made, we (the fans) will have to talk loudly, and repeatedly, that we were wronged in this game, and hope it curries favor down the road somewhere.
But nobody is going to talk up this "screwed" point if we don't (and I seem to remember a couple fanbases were like dogs with bones last year or so in similar circumstances, and it made a dent in the national perception).
 
Kingston Jamaica

Kingston Jamaica

Bench
#161
#161
IfAt1st said:
If we're all waiting for some national/league outlets to pick up this "hot story" of how the Kings got royally screwed, I think we'll be waiting a long time - it seems to have been ignored almost completely in the hustle and bustle of the NBA schedule.

If any fuss is going to be made, we (the fans) will have to talk loudly, and repeatedly, that we were wronged in this game, and hope it curries favor down the road somewhere.
But nobody is going to talk up this "screwed" point if we don't (and I seem to remember a couple fanbases were like dogs with bones last year or so in similar circumstances, and it made a dent in the national perception).
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I agree with you. Shooting the ball in 0.3 seconds is not possible theoretically. Human motion and reaction time does not allow it. It becomes possible only because the person starting the clock will also react late and the time expands. In 0.3 secs you can only tip the ball, i.e. change the direction. That's not what happened.
 
King Baller

King Baller

All-Star
#162
#162
I am 100% behind the protest. on The last play I think the ball was tipped and I think the timekeeper started time too late.

That said this game underscores the importance of the little things that happen in a game. Technical fouls, missed free throws, giving up easy baskets, not blocking out and allowing put backs, hustling for loose balls, putting the correct players to match up on the floor (let the SG's cover the SG's), etc..... Once a team is playing competitively it is managing all the little things that win these close games. This is mostly learned through game experience and the Kings should improve as the season rolls on.
 
Fireplug

Fireplug

Bench
#165
#165
Actually the Refs made a fundamental reasoning error from the get-go and that is why the Kings should appeal.

We all heard exactly what the refs were talking about when they were reviewing the play. They specifically commented that because they could see space between Hollins’ fingers and the ball (well, Rudy’s arm they said, but meant the same thing) then that was the evidence they would use to justify that Ryan didn’t touch the ball.

Problem is, the first replay they looked at from a different angle clearly showed that Ryan’s fingers were actually higher than the ball, and it was the SIDE of his hand they should have focused on if that was the sole evidence they were going to use to decide the game as they did.

The freeze frame directly before the one they based their decision on was the one they actually should have used then, because it showed the side of Ryan’s hand overlapping the ball.

By their own reasoning, this should have given Kings the game and this was all available to them on the scene. Using the reasoning the refs used to call the game, and showing what they should have looked at to decide the final answer, could give Kings a break.



 
Fireplug

Fireplug

Bench
#166
#166
And I videoed 5 different angles of the Lee shot with a stopwatch in the frame, then rewatched them in slowmo frame by frame and came to the conclusion that, believe it or not, Lee DID take exactly .3 seconds from touch to release. (So it CAN be done, and that is why the NBA rule book says .2 or less must be a tip, but not .3 or more.) So the only protest the Kings will have is whether Hollins tipped it or not. I expect the Kings will have the SportsVu camera feeds which will show a deflection trajectory when viewed from above.
 
pdxKingsFan

pdxKingsFan

So Ordinary That It's Truly Quite Extraordinary
Staff member
#170
#170
Hopefully when the NBA says "We won't overturn the result" they refund the 10k and tacitly admit they done f'd up.
 
Chubbs

Chubbs

Starter
#171
#171
It's hard to imagine the Kings won't be able to prove hollins touched the ball based on the exact angles the officials had available.

The problem with the refs on the court making these calls is that they are biased. They made the call in the first place. If there's "doubt", they won't overturn their own call cause that admits a mistake. These calls must be decided by trained replay officials, like in the Nfl. At least in the last two mins if they are concerned with making the calls quickly. That needs to change asap before they blow a playoff game call too. No one (in the media) cares about the result of a Memphis/sac game now. If that's the NBA finals, you better believe people will care.
 
Glenn

Glenn

Hall of Famer
#172
#172
I presume they sent the appropriate "tapes" if only to show that there might be a bias against the Kings. Plant a seed in the brains of the NBA. I expect no action to be taken. I still wonder how Lee caught the ball and shot it in less than .3 seconds. The NBA did a lot of research a few years ago on this kind of thing. Although I can imagine a guy catching the ball up high and shooting it, Lee caught it at waist level, and moved it up, all in less than .3 seconds. I don't think it can be done.
 
N

New Era

Starter
#174
#174
So what is the deal with the protest? If they officially protested then the league would have to formally accept or reject it, correct? Why would it take this long?
 
Spike

Spike

Subsidiary Intermediary
Staff member
#176
#176
Glenn said:
I presume they sent the appropriate "tapes" if only to show that there might be a bias against the Kings. Plant a seed in the brains of the NBA. I expect no action to be taken. I still wonder how Lee caught the ball and shot it in less than .3 seconds. The NBA did a lot of research a few years ago on this kind of thing. Although I can imagine a guy catching the ball up high and shooting it, Lee caught it at waist level, and moved it up, all in less than .3 seconds. I don't think it can be done.
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I tend to agree. Just because a shot can be made in .3 seconds, doesn't mean it was done in .3 seconds. This was not a quick catch and shoot type situation - there was clear handling of the ball and manipulation in the air. From a holistic standpoint, I think "yeah, we lost, move on." We shouldn't have put ourselves in this situation. From a more Mr. Slim Citrus pedantic point standpoint, I believe that rules that exist need to be enforced. From a strict rules perspective, the Kings are right on at least two fronts. Even if the NBA doesn't overturn the call, they need to look into how their process is handled, and clean it up before it becomes an issue in the playoffs. Can you imagine if this was a series clincher?
 
pdxKingsFan

pdxKingsFan

So Ordinary That It's Truly Quite Extraordinary
Staff member
#177
#177
It took between .3 and .5 seconds, there is pretty much no way it took .3 or less, but considering that the NBA would probably allow for clock operator reaction time (.1-.2 seconds) it would stand. I think the tip is the far bigger thing, and why it was ignored or replay couldn't get right.
 
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