T
thesanityannex
Guest
VF21 said:He did something in the last game I haven't seen him do very often. He made an assertive two-handed dunk that looked pretty good.
So next year...Peja, the dunk-monster?
i liked the dunk, granted there was a fifteen foot lane for him to drive through and i think jerome james was picking his nose so the shot was not contested.
Bricklayer
Don't Make Me Use The Bat
Re: the Peja post move
And this is exactly the same thing I said last year...Peja does NOT need a post move to beat players his own size. With the exception of guys like Tayshaun Prince or Andrei Kirilenko, who realistically I don't think Peja will ever be able to beat consistently, he does well against bigger players. Actually I think he does BETTER against bigger players than littler ones. They are not quick enough to smother him, which is where he really gets in trouble, and he can normally get his normal array of outside shots off over them.
What he needs the (and I say "the" on purpose -- needs only one) post move for is to beat those smaller defenders. To get them off of him, and to make it too expensive for opposing teams to just switch puffed up OGs over on him to outquick him and take him entirely out of his game. And because of that, it doesn't even have to be that GREAT of a post move. The idea would be that he is going to be significantly bigger than almost anybody he uses it against. a 6'5" guy should not be able to consistently block or alter a solid turnaround jumper from a 6'9"/6'10" player.
But Peja has to do several things:
1) overcome his extreme aversion to contact -- Post work is (in my best wrestling voice) "man's work". You're going to get bumped, beat up, you have to fight to hold your position. Can't be wussy or it won't work. But if the post move is primarily for use against smaller guys, should limit how physical it should be. Afraid of contact or not, Peja should be able to establish postition against a guy 4 or 5 inches shorter.
2) settle down -- Peja's normal offensive game is constant motion. Run around, run around, never settle down. The only time he stops normally is when he decides to rest by standing in the corner. For a post game to really be effective, that has to change. He has to be willing to stop, move to the post. Settle, fight to hold his position, recieve the ball, and take the shot. Not run around. But run right to a point, seal his man, and wait to get the ball. That is anathema to Peja's normal game. But if the purpose of the post game is to punish smaller players and get them switched off him, it cannot be a flow thing. It has to be a play we can call, it has to be organized and guaranteed. Clear out the side get the ball to Peja against the smaller man, let him punish him.
3) convert from the post -- and most obviously he has to make them,. His currnet post moves, such as they are, are incredibly feeble. A moving bounce leading to a deep one-legged fadeaway jumper. Quite obviously that scares nobody. And this is where Peja would have to do the work. he needs hundreds of reps every day all summer. He needs to have a rhythm, to have the footwork down, and to be able to convert 50%+ of those shots over smaller defenders. Otherwise its no deterrent at all.
And this is exactly the same thing I said last year...Peja does NOT need a post move to beat players his own size. With the exception of guys like Tayshaun Prince or Andrei Kirilenko, who realistically I don't think Peja will ever be able to beat consistently, he does well against bigger players. Actually I think he does BETTER against bigger players than littler ones. They are not quick enough to smother him, which is where he really gets in trouble, and he can normally get his normal array of outside shots off over them.
What he needs the (and I say "the" on purpose -- needs only one) post move for is to beat those smaller defenders. To get them off of him, and to make it too expensive for opposing teams to just switch puffed up OGs over on him to outquick him and take him entirely out of his game. And because of that, it doesn't even have to be that GREAT of a post move. The idea would be that he is going to be significantly bigger than almost anybody he uses it against. a 6'5" guy should not be able to consistently block or alter a solid turnaround jumper from a 6'9"/6'10" player.
But Peja has to do several things:
1) overcome his extreme aversion to contact -- Post work is (in my best wrestling voice) "man's work". You're going to get bumped, beat up, you have to fight to hold your position. Can't be wussy or it won't work. But if the post move is primarily for use against smaller guys, should limit how physical it should be. Afraid of contact or not, Peja should be able to establish postition against a guy 4 or 5 inches shorter.
2) settle down -- Peja's normal offensive game is constant motion. Run around, run around, never settle down. The only time he stops normally is when he decides to rest by standing in the corner. For a post game to really be effective, that has to change. He has to be willing to stop, move to the post. Settle, fight to hold his position, recieve the ball, and take the shot. Not run around. But run right to a point, seal his man, and wait to get the ball. That is anathema to Peja's normal game. But if the purpose of the post game is to punish smaller players and get them switched off him, it cannot be a flow thing. It has to be a play we can call, it has to be organized and guaranteed. Clear out the side get the ball to Peja against the smaller man, let him punish him.
3) convert from the post -- and most obviously he has to make them,. His currnet post moves, such as they are, are incredibly feeble. A moving bounce leading to a deep one-legged fadeaway jumper. Quite obviously that scares nobody. And this is where Peja would have to do the work. he needs hundreds of reps every day all summer. He needs to have a rhythm, to have the footwork down, and to be able to convert 50%+ of those shots over smaller defenders. Otherwise its no deterrent at all.
bozzwell
Starter
And that my fellow Kings' fans was that: "Man's Work" Remedial Class.
I tried to address every aspect of Pedja's game that he could do some work with in the off season, while others (most notably - Brick) limited suggestions to his post game, but in a nutshell, I think what we're all trying to say is an abbrevated, simplified version of "toughening up" for wincers.
I am not trying to dump on Pedja, by all accounts he is a good person and we know that he is a great shooter and I am sure that he will remain to be a consistent and prolific shooter on Kings or any other team. The same way that his man-on-man defense is simple and requires him just to be comitted to it in order to do good on this team, I hope that he will comit to aclimitizing himself with the post game to the same extent. It can't hurt (pun intended).
I tried to address every aspect of Pedja's game that he could do some work with in the off season, while others (most notably - Brick) limited suggestions to his post game, but in a nutshell, I think what we're all trying to say is an abbrevated, simplified version of "toughening up" for wincers.
I am not trying to dump on Pedja, by all accounts he is a good person and we know that he is a great shooter and I am sure that he will remain to be a consistent and prolific shooter on Kings or any other team. The same way that his man-on-man defense is simple and requires him just to be comitted to it in order to do good on this team, I hope that he will comit to aclimitizing himself with the post game to the same extent. It can't hurt (pun intended).
Bozzwell, I have to disagree with points 2 and 3 from your previous post. Peja, and every other King, could benefit alot from an offseason weight program. Lifting increases athleticism a great amount. Football players do not have 40" verticals because they dunk basketballs all day, but because they do Olympic lifts like cleans. Those improve jumping ability tremendously. He is also at the perfect age to really start a dedicated program. At about 27-28 is when that "old man" strength starts to set in. If he intends to get in the post every now and then next year, he really must work on his legs.
bozzwell
Starter
Venom said:
It's entirely possible and I didn't mean to suggest that he shouldn't work on it. However, as I stated there I am sceptical that he could take it to a whole new level and that is why I may have downplayed it. But, he doesn't seem to be able to dunk the ball without run up and at 6'9''/6'10'' that is not a good start.
I do see your point though. I quit smoking and started working out hard at the age of 33 due to what turned out to be a minor health scare. One nice side effect was that I started leaping again so I know what you're talking about. Maybe I am handiccaping Pedja's ability too much and he will still have to keep working as much as he used to on his shot.
It's his contract year and I certainly hope he's greedy.
It's the same old story. Everyone loves Peja when he's our developing draft pick filling the hoop from three point land. Everyone loves him because he's going to get better. The sky's the limit. But then what happens is that he establishes himself and we all realize that he isn't superman, he isn't going to single handidly lift us from obscurity to the heights of basketball success. He's a flawed human being just like the rest of us. There's some things he does really well. He wouldn't be getting paid millions of dollars a year if there weren't. And there's other things he doesn't do as well. So now people can't be rid of him soon enough. Let's bring in someone else to be our superman and keep them only as long as it takes to realize that they're human too.
Alright so he's not the messiah. But he's still a damn good basketball player. And he's our damn good basketball player at that, which I think should count for something.
With Peja's game, it's not about him being selfish enough to demand the ball. He's never been a great one-on-one player, but then the Kings didn't rise to recognition in the league as a great one-on-one team. For Peja to be effective, his teammates have to get him the ball in positions where he'll be effective. If that isn't happening, it's not entirely Peja's fault. If he's a primary scoring option (and clearly based on the numbers he's put up, he should be) than the offense should be designed in such a way as to get him good looks. He doesn't have to 'create his own shot' as the announcers like to say. I saw Paul Pierce 'create his own shot' the other night. He was double-teamed so he dribbled a little and got enough space to fire a fade-away which didn't even draw rim. That's what we should hope for? If there's no shot, then you pass the ball. If you're being double-teamed than somebody is open. You can cut to open up space for someone else to drive to the basket. 24 seconds is an eternity if you have a solid offensive plan. Keep the ball moving, take the high percentage shot. That's Peja's game and it's the King's game too. I'm not so anxious to see it replaced with something else.
I really don't understand the panic about us losing in the first round and how we've got to rebuild now. And how we'll never excel in the playoffs if we count on Peja. That's overreaction. The Kings lost because they didn't have enough time together as a team to develop a solid game plan and execute it when it counts. There was moments when it looked like they were putting it together, but the playoffs is really not the best time to be figuring out how to play as a team. We knew that was the case going in, so why should the outcome be shocking in any way? The path to success is not that far away. Keep Adelman, keep the motion offense, keep Miller, Bibby, and Peja - the three guys on the team whose skills are most suited to that style of offense. Work on the game plan with whoever comes in this summer and spend the next season improving the execution. That's where this all started, and it can all happen again. Whenever I see this team getting into trouble it's because they're panicking. They start thinking that all they need to do to get back in it is score baskets. So Mobley or Bibby or Kenny Thomas or someone else goes down there and forces a shot. You don't win that way. You've got to keep playing your game and playing it as best you can. The team that wins in the playoffs is the one that forces the other into playing their game. This year Seattle was more succesful at that. Which is not surprising considering they've had a whole year to perfect it while we were playing musical chairs. I like the moves, I'm not saying they were mistakes. I just think the plan was to build for the future not for the 2005 playoffs.
So anyway, I think the whole 'trade Peja at all costs' vibe I've been getting from this site is pretty misguided. He's not why we lost. He's a big reason why we've been succesful for the past few years and to turn on him now because he didn't do so well surrounded by a bunch of new players that couldn't or wouldn't get him the ball when it mattered, to do that is to forget what made the Sacramento Kings successful in the first place. We don't want a Kobe Bryant on this team. This is a team where players share the ball. Where everybody makes each other better by playing to win and staying on the same page.
I think a post move would improve Peja's game. It would allow him to punish smaller, weaker players inside. And when you can do that, it forces them to put stronger, slower players on you who you can punish on the perimeter. Or you can pass out when they double-team you inside. Then you rotate outside, get the ball back, and put it in the net. That makes him that much more dangerous and that much more useful to the team game. In fact, I think it's the best thing he can work on in the off season for that reason.
I know there's a certain length beyond which people tend not to read posts, and that wasn't a very organized way of making my point, but anyway I just wanted to say that I think it's wrong to bash the guy when he's done so much for us in the past. If you're going to critisize what he doesn't do, you should also take a look at what he does do because it's the kinds of things any team in the league would be happy to have.
Alright so he's not the messiah. But he's still a damn good basketball player. And he's our damn good basketball player at that, which I think should count for something.
With Peja's game, it's not about him being selfish enough to demand the ball. He's never been a great one-on-one player, but then the Kings didn't rise to recognition in the league as a great one-on-one team. For Peja to be effective, his teammates have to get him the ball in positions where he'll be effective. If that isn't happening, it's not entirely Peja's fault. If he's a primary scoring option (and clearly based on the numbers he's put up, he should be) than the offense should be designed in such a way as to get him good looks. He doesn't have to 'create his own shot' as the announcers like to say. I saw Paul Pierce 'create his own shot' the other night. He was double-teamed so he dribbled a little and got enough space to fire a fade-away which didn't even draw rim. That's what we should hope for? If there's no shot, then you pass the ball. If you're being double-teamed than somebody is open. You can cut to open up space for someone else to drive to the basket. 24 seconds is an eternity if you have a solid offensive plan. Keep the ball moving, take the high percentage shot. That's Peja's game and it's the King's game too. I'm not so anxious to see it replaced with something else.
I really don't understand the panic about us losing in the first round and how we've got to rebuild now. And how we'll never excel in the playoffs if we count on Peja. That's overreaction. The Kings lost because they didn't have enough time together as a team to develop a solid game plan and execute it when it counts. There was moments when it looked like they were putting it together, but the playoffs is really not the best time to be figuring out how to play as a team. We knew that was the case going in, so why should the outcome be shocking in any way? The path to success is not that far away. Keep Adelman, keep the motion offense, keep Miller, Bibby, and Peja - the three guys on the team whose skills are most suited to that style of offense. Work on the game plan with whoever comes in this summer and spend the next season improving the execution. That's where this all started, and it can all happen again. Whenever I see this team getting into trouble it's because they're panicking. They start thinking that all they need to do to get back in it is score baskets. So Mobley or Bibby or Kenny Thomas or someone else goes down there and forces a shot. You don't win that way. You've got to keep playing your game and playing it as best you can. The team that wins in the playoffs is the one that forces the other into playing their game. This year Seattle was more succesful at that. Which is not surprising considering they've had a whole year to perfect it while we were playing musical chairs. I like the moves, I'm not saying they were mistakes. I just think the plan was to build for the future not for the 2005 playoffs.
So anyway, I think the whole 'trade Peja at all costs' vibe I've been getting from this site is pretty misguided. He's not why we lost. He's a big reason why we've been succesful for the past few years and to turn on him now because he didn't do so well surrounded by a bunch of new players that couldn't or wouldn't get him the ball when it mattered, to do that is to forget what made the Sacramento Kings successful in the first place. We don't want a Kobe Bryant on this team. This is a team where players share the ball. Where everybody makes each other better by playing to win and staying on the same page.
I think a post move would improve Peja's game. It would allow him to punish smaller, weaker players inside. And when you can do that, it forces them to put stronger, slower players on you who you can punish on the perimeter. Or you can pass out when they double-team you inside. Then you rotate outside, get the ball back, and put it in the net. That makes him that much more dangerous and that much more useful to the team game. In fact, I think it's the best thing he can work on in the off season for that reason.
I know there's a certain length beyond which people tend not to read posts, and that wasn't a very organized way of making my point, but anyway I just wanted to say that I think it's wrong to bash the guy when he's done so much for us in the past. If you're going to critisize what he doesn't do, you should also take a look at what he does do because it's the kinds of things any team in the league would be happy to have.
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hrdboild - I think you're mistaking bashing for criticism, at least in some cases. And I don't think any player on the Kings is above criticism. For some reason, Peja never seemed to be the one being criticized. He was always the "golden child," if you will.
The BASHING that went on stopped. Now, some people are not happy with him and they're expressing it, which I think they have a right to do. Just like people had a right to discuss their frustration, etc. with Webber when he came back last season. There's a line people shouldn't cross that turns criticism into bashing and I think we all do a pretty good job around here of trying to remember where that line is.
Having said that, I think you've made some really good points about Peja and our expectations for him. I just hate to see it end with the "I think it's wrong to bash the guy"...
One more thought just popped in. You said, "He's done so much for us in the past." Well, that might be true but this is sports. It isn't about the past, it's all about what have you done for me lately and what can you do for me in the future...
The BASHING that went on stopped. Now, some people are not happy with him and they're expressing it, which I think they have a right to do. Just like people had a right to discuss their frustration, etc. with Webber when he came back last season. There's a line people shouldn't cross that turns criticism into bashing and I think we all do a pretty good job around here of trying to remember where that line is.
Having said that, I think you've made some really good points about Peja and our expectations for him. I just hate to see it end with the "I think it's wrong to bash the guy"...
One more thought just popped in. You said, "He's done so much for us in the past." Well, that might be true but this is sports. It isn't about the past, it's all about what have you done for me lately and what can you do for me in the future...
bozzwell
Starter
VF21 said:
On the balance, you're probably right. Except one or two posters with turrets syndrom I don't see anyone really bashing Pedja and even his boosters are easily fooled into raising their expectations of Pedja and demanding improvements. By implication, if you demand improvements or "else" we're being critical of him (not bashing), but as I said when Webber was traded - Pedja is fair game now.
I agree with you to a certain extent. Even bashing really doesn't bother me, people interpret things how they like. I guess what I meant by that is that I'm seeing a lot of criticism of Peja lately without any corresponding acknowledgement that he remains one of the top shooters in the league as well as an above average passer for his position and at least an average rebounder for a perimeter player. He's active on defense even if he isn't the fastest guy on the court and sometimes gets burned. It's the overwhelming majority of the criticism that bothers me a bit because I think people would miss him a lot more than they think on the court.
Actually, it has more to do with the trade proposals than anything else. Somehow he's become 'the guy to trade which will make this team better' and I just don't see it. If you look at some of the other fans' trade proposals across the league, almost every one of them that involves the Kings involves Peja. What does that tell you? Other fans want this guy on their team. He's just as important to our offense as Brad and Bibby are, and probably a better defender at his position than those guys are too. And I also wanted to point out that his productivity is directly dependent on how good of a job his teammates do of getting him the ball. Why does he tend to disappear in the fourth quarter? It's because the other guys panic and start forcing up shots instead of staying calm and moving the ball. Watch for that the next time there's a game (if Peja's still here that is). He looks invisible because he isn't touching the ball, he's running around getting open and nobody on the team is finding him. Maybe that's lock down defense by the other team, denying him the ball. But if that's the case, the rest of the team should attack the basket to force them to guard them more.
So yeah, I didn't mean to say criticism is wrong. I just wanted to point out that I think a lot of the criticisms of Peja really miss the point. Why criticise somebody for something they've never been? Especially when what they have been is an all-star? Mike Bibby has his weaknesses and yet his value to this team is clear. Personally, I think the same is true of Peja and Brad.
Actually, it has more to do with the trade proposals than anything else. Somehow he's become 'the guy to trade which will make this team better' and I just don't see it. If you look at some of the other fans' trade proposals across the league, almost every one of them that involves the Kings involves Peja. What does that tell you? Other fans want this guy on their team. He's just as important to our offense as Brad and Bibby are, and probably a better defender at his position than those guys are too. And I also wanted to point out that his productivity is directly dependent on how good of a job his teammates do of getting him the ball. Why does he tend to disappear in the fourth quarter? It's because the other guys panic and start forcing up shots instead of staying calm and moving the ball. Watch for that the next time there's a game (if Peja's still here that is). He looks invisible because he isn't touching the ball, he's running around getting open and nobody on the team is finding him. Maybe that's lock down defense by the other team, denying him the ball. But if that's the case, the rest of the team should attack the basket to force them to guard them more.
So yeah, I didn't mean to say criticism is wrong. I just wanted to point out that I think a lot of the criticisms of Peja really miss the point. Why criticise somebody for something they've never been? Especially when what they have been is an all-star? Mike Bibby has his weaknesses and yet his value to this team is clear. Personally, I think the same is true of Peja and Brad.
hrdboild said:
You're going to continue to see criticism, just as you'll see criticism of Bibby for his lack of defense, Miller for his lack of rebounding (especially lately), Cuttino for his lack of passing (if he stays), etc. NO PLAYER IS PERFECT. What happens sometimes is the pendulum swings too far first one way so people feel they have to overcompensate in the other direction. (BTW, I don't think you can use average rebounder to describe Peja. He's 6'10" for God's sake. He should be able to get more boards...)
Why do people mention him in trades? Well, partially because there's just not much discussion about the potential for improvement with a Daniels/Tag trade. As far as his productivity based on other guys getting him the ball and they don't do that in the 4th because they panic, hogwash. That's an excuse, not an explanation. Peja has - MORE THAN ONCE - gotten the ball for a key shot and instead of taking the shot, he's passed the ball away. That could be a reason they don't pass to him as much.
Why criticize somebody for something they've never been? Because there is ALWAYS room for improvement. Peja COULD become a better rebounder. And the all-star label thing is getting very old, very fast. Peja HAS to be good because he's an all-star? Maybe, but that doesn't mean he can't improve.
If you go back a year, Peja brought all of this on himself. He's the one that first put the trade scenario out there. Before that, virtually no one talked about trading him. Now, the cat's out of the bag, so to speak, and it's perfectly acceptable to talk about trading him.
burekijogurt
Starter
Peja might be unable to add a decent turnaround jumper. It seems so simple but for some reason I think it may be IMPOSSIBLE for him to do so. I mean that one legged mounstruosity has to come out of necessity and nothing else.
The criticism/"bashing" of Peja is a direct result of the unrealized potential in the man that almost any fan can see. For he or the coaching staff to be satisfied with his game so far means that all that is expected of him is to be our designated 3 pt shooter. Some staffs have role players whose job it is to specialize in one particular aspect of the offense. I don't think this is the case with the Kings but his rep is that of a long distance marksman (which is a low percentage shot). His ability to move without the ball and benefit from slick passing by past teammates made it seem as if he was a legitimate inside/outside threat. His occasional post up move of doing a fall back jumper on someone 5 inches smaller than he was frustrating to all of us since, once again, he chose a low percentage shot. He's shown that he can beat most defenders off the dribble for at least the first two steps (which they often invite him to do) but then he gets blocked at the rim. He needs to just pull up for the 15-18 footer to make them pay. He could also go to Pete Newell's big man school that he holds every summer which teaches the basics...footwork, blocking out, jump hooks and other back to the basket techniques. Defensively he needs to use his fouls by putting a body on someone down low, not on ticky tack reach in fouls and must move his feet instead of reaching in. I swear, if I ever saw him take a charge I wouldn't know if I'd just _ _ _ _ or go blind. Perhaps when he gets a max type contract from someone they will demand he stay home in the summer and work with someone who will force him to realize some of the potential we all see but are frustrated at not seeing realized.
mbkings10
G-League
During his time off, Peja should watch some tapes of Dirk Nowitzki. Here is a 7 ft man who can shoot just as well as peja, draw fouls by taking the ball to the hoop against bigger defenders and punish smaller defenders with his post up game and little fade away shot. Plus he isn't afraid to rebound in traffic, almost 10 boards a game the past few years. Dirk went to the free throw line 708 times this past year, an average of 9 trips per game, Peja only 275, an average of 4 trips per game. With Peja being such a good free throw shooter, there is no excuse why he shouldn't be more aggressive and take the ball the the basket more. Yes his one on one game is a bit suspect, but that is one part of the game he should really work on.
Yoda
Bench
I enjoyed reading this. Nicely put VF21.VF21 said:
Im thinking a trade would do both sides well. Peja may need something different to improve. Maybe a different system, teammate, coaches, market, etc. With Peja not improving this team cant go where it wants to go. I think that the senerio Id like to see. A championship parade in Sacamento and an all-star Peja in an environment that best helps him suceed.
Rowdyone -
My first thought when you mentioned Pete Newell's big man camp was that Peja wasn't big enough... then I remembered.
I have to also agree about the reach-in fouls. They drive me nuts.
Good comments and I wish someone close to Peja could get him to read them. If he could, for example, develop a consistent pull-up 15 foot jumper I'd certainly be impressed!
My first thought when you mentioned Pete Newell's big man camp was that Peja wasn't big enough... then I remembered.
I have to also agree about the reach-in fouls. They drive me nuts.
Good comments and I wish someone close to Peja could get him to read them. If he could, for example, develop a consistent pull-up 15 foot jumper I'd certainly be impressed!
Bartking
G-League
Yoda said:
Listening to the coach on the Sacramento Kings is strictly optional. I'm sure he tells them to box out, but nobody does (since Pollard and maybe the new guys)...and what happens? Nothing.
We had a certain PF who loved to bring the ball up once per game leading to a near-turnover every single time. Any problem? Nope, the players' coach just let it be. How about guys jacking up a shot with 20 seconds on the shot-clock - no problem.
I'm not even sure a coach can keep his job while coaching modern NBA players if he doesn't kiss *** constantly (unless he's seriously established). They might just mutiny.
I think if you really want this team to improve in any significant way, you need to find a way to take Corliss, Skinner, Thomas, Jackson, OTag, DSong (maybe), Mobley (maybe), and our draft pick and turn them into a couple players who are really going to help us. There's no way 12 players are going to get playing time so half of those guys are wasted on the bench and the money they're making isn't doing us any good. It's debatable whether a Peja for Artest or Peja for Pierce trade (with appropriate throw-ins) even makes us any better. I understand the desire to float Peja in deals that will net a superstar. What I don't understand is the notion that that alone is enough to make us a contending team. You want to swap out Peja for someone else with similar potential? Fine. But you're still going to have to do something else about all those mid-level contracts we've got. You've got to plug the hole you're opening up at SF and you've still got to bring in a starter at PF. If people want to post the 600th Peja trade proposal, the least they could do is include another trade or two to make an actual team.
People are going to do whatever they like, whether I like it or not, it's all I can do to tell them why I don't like it. Let's get KG. Let's get Artest. Let's trade Peja for Pierce. Blah. That's why you're fans and not the GM I guess. I wish people would at least try to be a little more intelligent than that. Come up with some realistic trades for guys that might be undervalued right now, probably involving guys on our team who aren't coming off of bad years themselves. Just think about this, if Petrie didn't trade Peja last year when his value was at it's highest, much higher than it is now, why would he trade him now? I guess I just expect too much.
People are going to do whatever they like, whether I like it or not, it's all I can do to tell them why I don't like it. Let's get KG. Let's get Artest. Let's trade Peja for Pierce. Blah. That's why you're fans and not the GM I guess. I wish people would at least try to be a little more intelligent than that. Come up with some realistic trades for guys that might be undervalued right now, probably involving guys on our team who aren't coming off of bad years themselves. Just think about this, if Petrie didn't trade Peja last year when his value was at it's highest, much higher than it is now, why would he trade him now? I guess I just expect too much.
We've got a really good trade thread going, hrdboild. This one started out as a discussion about whether or not Peja can/will improve over the off season...but, as is the wont, it has taken a slight turn.
As far as expecting purely logical and rational trade proposals, you indeed are setting a very high - and probably unreachable - goal.
It's TDOS. At some point, you will most likely see EVERY possible combination included as trade fodder. It's just the way the off-season goes around here.
Trying to inject logic at this point is only liable to lead to a lot of headaches.
As far as expecting purely logical and rational trade proposals, you indeed are setting a very high - and probably unreachable - goal.
It's TDOS. At some point, you will most likely see EVERY possible combination included as trade fodder. It's just the way the off-season goes around here.
Trying to inject logic at this point is only liable to lead to a lot of headaches.
F
Fillmoe
Guest
i was thinking about Pejas rebounding situation and i figured he does take alot of 3's and perimeter shots which does make it hard to rebound...... but his lack of hustle is beyond me.......
There has been a lack of effort at times, particularly this season. The addition of a post move would be nice. It would make our offense a little more versatile and Peja himself a little less predictable/one sided. But more than anything else, it would be nice to see the effort there on a consistent basis. Jumping for rebounds, not just waiting for them to come to him. Being tenacious on defense, anticipating passes and disrupting things. Energy and effort basically. And maybe more of a killer instinct in critical moments. That's not about getting better, it's more about attitude. Is it possible to teach that? I like Adelman, but he doesn't seem like he's the guy to teach attitude and tenacity.
Stojakovic
Bench
mbkings10 said:
7 7 42.0 45-128 .352 4-14 .286
Hm...maybe he should check somebody elses tapes.
So you're saying Peja is better than Dirk? Or worse? Or what?
From purely a non-statistical viewpoint, I think it's widely believed that Dirk is considered - and I think rightly so - to be much more valuable as he is much more flexible and brings more to the table.
From purely a non-statistical viewpoint, I think it's widely believed that Dirk is considered - and I think rightly so - to be much more valuable as he is much more flexible and brings more to the table.
Stojakovic
Bench
VF21 said:
I'm not saying anything...Dirk is the better player, but not a great playoff performer. I don't think that it's widely believed that Dirk is much more valuable than Peja, but that's me. He is better though, no doubt.
Stojakovic
Bench
VF21 said:
Oops sorry ... those are Dirk's playoff numbers from the first round with Houston.
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