Can Artest and Bibby coexist?

And1

G-League
http://msn.foxsports.com/nba/story/6277948
Charley Rosen / FOXSports.com

Even after Sacramento's stunning 98-97 come-from-behind win in Utah, one question still shadows the Kings: Can Ron Artest and Mike Bibby coexist?

Let's examine the latest evidence.


The usual procedure is for a team to run its first offensive play for its big man, the idea being to get his engine running from the get-go so that he'll be willing to rebound, set screens, and defend. But the Kings initial possession was a clear-out for Artest, a strong indication that Eric Musselman either believes, or wants to believe, that Ron-Ron is the team's leading man. Unfortunately, Artest wound up throwing the ball away.

From there, the Kings began the game in slow-motion. Once the ball crossed the time-line, shots were launched after only one or two passes. The Kings played like they were strangers on both ends of the court. And after bagging his first jumper, Bibby mostly fired blanks for the rest of the half.

Up until then, neither Artest nor Bibby showed any trace of leadership.

Indeed, it wasn't until Mussel-person yanked Artest (after his 2nd foul) and Bibby, and inserted his second unit midway through the first quarter that the Kings started to show some life. If John Salmons (1-4, 2 points), Shareef Abdur-Rahim, and Corliss Williamson were virtually useless, the quickness of Ronnie Price (1-5, 5 points), and Francisco Garcia (3-5, 9 points) was instrumental in leading the Kings on a 12-4 tear that put them back in the ball game.

The starters re-entered the game and played the Jazz even until the intermission, but Artest's play was uneven. He did a good job of stifling Carlos Boozer with fronting, denying defense, and by not allowing the bigger man to bully him. His stubborn defense forced Boozer into a turnover, and was beaten only when Boozer slipped a screen/roll and scored a layup.

One particular play illustrated just how good a defender Artest really is. He made an aggressive show on another S/R, so much so that Utah's ball-handler (Deron Williams) was forced to back up, then Artest was quick enough to jump back into Boozer's lap and resume his nagging defense on the home team's high scorer.
Yet Artest also spent a great deal of his court-time trying to check Andrei Kirilenko (while either Williamson or Abdur-Rahim attended to Boozer), and AK-47 proved to be more than he could handle. Artest bit on a pair of fakes that ultimately led to a dunk and an assist. While Artest did post-up his skinnier opponent and powered his way to a 3-point play, Kirilenko also ripped him once and blocked two of his shots. (In his only post-up versus Boozer, Artest had another shot swatted.) Kirilenko also beat Artest on a dribble-drive from 20-feet out, when the latter was so intent on trying to steal the ball that his arms were too extended and his body was tilted too far forward.


At age 27, Artest has lost some of his youthful speed and is much more effective guarding bigger, stronger, more immobile opponents than he is defending quicker ones. At the other end of the floor, Artest did force a couple of shots, but he was also looking to pass the ball. His final numbers amounted to 3-9 (including 1-4 from downtown), 6 rebounds, 4 assists, 1 steal, 1 turnover, and 11 points.

Meanwhile, Bibby continued looking for his jumper, and showed a reluctance to drive the ball into the paint. Indeed, he took the rock to the ring only five times, with the following results: Drawing a non-shooting foul. Throwing a pass that was intercepted. Making a pass that gained no advantage. Getting a shot blocked. And finally, in the 3rd quarter, he scored on a power layup and was fouled.

Why this disinclination to drive? It certainly looked as though at age 28, Bibby has also lost a step.

On defense, Bibby had his hands full chasing the hot-footed Williams around the court. The Kings starters resumed their lethargic play to commence the second half. At best, their offense consisted of 2-man games (none of which paired Bibby and Artest). Their defense was likewise lacking in intensity, especially off the ball. Virtually every time one of the Jazz made a baseline cut from the weak-side to the strong-side he was wide open. Not even the second-stringers could rescue the Kings. Price threw a foolish behind-the-back pass that botched a 3-on-2 fast break. Garcia unleashed an air ball. Abdur-Rahim's adventures in the pivot led to repeated turnovers. The return of the starters led to more of the same.

Parenthetically, it certainly seemed as though the referees were gunning for Artest. Only one of the three fouls called against him was legit. The second foul was whistled when Artest was caught up in a traffic jam that clustered around a S/R, even though he committed no illegal act. The third foul was called by a ref who was behind the play and needed to have X-ray vision to determine whether or not Artest hit Kirilenko's hand as he attempted to deflect AK's dribble. The camera had a much better view and showed plenty of air between Artest's outstretched hand and Kirilenko. But, even though the calls were blatantly unjust, Artest maintained his cool.

Before delving into the exciting climax of the game, let's scout the Kings supporting cast. Brad Miller — 5-11, only 3 rebounds, 2 assists, 3 turnovers, 10 points — was slower than slow. In fact, if he ever loses another step he'd only be able to move in reverse. Miller did hit a few mid-range jumpers, converted on one hard drive, and also scored on a tip-in. But his defense was awful, his hands were flabby, and he couldn't bend to catch any pass (or loose ball) that didn't bounce up to at least his waist. Overall, Miller did more harm than good.

Ken Thomas — 0-1, 4 rebounds, 2 turnovers, 1 blocked shot — wasn't ready to play until the second half.

John Salmons never did show up.

After a do-nothing first-half, Williamson — 3-6, 6 points — began to move without the ball, and also took a turn banging Boozer around.
Kevin Martin — 2-12, 2 assists, a steal, and several turnovers, and 13 total points — occasionally flashed his brilliant speed, but forced too many shots, and was mostly a non-factor.

After sparking the team in the first half, Francisco Garcia did nothing thereafter. Abdur-Rahim's boardwork, defense on Boozer, all-around hustle, and timely shooting were all vital parts of the Kings comeback. His line showed 6-8, 8 rebounds (including 5 offensive), 2 assists, 2 steals, and 21 points — all in less than 19 minutes!

At the last mandatory time-out of the third quarter, the Kings were down 84-64, and Mussel-boy stood on the court by himself as his players wandered over to the bench. The young coach looked shocked, resigned, despaired, and at least 80 years old. But, lo and behold, the Kings fashioned a riotous fourth quarter rally.

Suddenly, Abdur-Rahim began collecting garbage points — and even hit an awkward 18-foot jumper. At the same time, the Kings defense got hyped. Bibby drew a charge on Williams. Utah's precision offense developed glitches and they started missing jumpers and losing the ball. And, most importantly, Sacramento's slothful dormant offense came alive when Bibby's bombs began homing in on the basket.

Indeed, the primary catalyst for the turn-around was Bibby's heroic perimeter shooting.

And then the game boiled down to the critical play: The Kings trailed 97-95 and had the ball with the game clock ticking down to 60 seconds.

To whom would Musselman the Younger assign the win-tie-or-die shot?

Up till that point Bibby had registered 8-18, 8 rebounds, 5 assists, and 19 points. And his hand was the hottest in the building.
But Artest's number was called. There he was, dribbling like a mad scientist in the middle of the court, and totally ignoring Bibby. Then Artest darted toward the foul line, and kicked the ball to Abdur-Rahim, who uncorked a trey that split the net. His first successful 3-pointer of the season.

These were the last points scored, and the Kings were the unlikeliest of winners. So, then, who is the leader of the team? Bibby? Artest? Both of them?

Ah, teams that have two heads eventually are pulled in two opposing directions. Think of the old Sixers with the Julius Erving faction versus the George McGinnis faction.

So, short of trading one or the other, what can the Kings do about the not-so-private contention between Bibby and Artest?

The answer is deceptively simple. Have the two of them hook up in perpetual S/Rs. Again, and again, and again, and … At least two dozen times per game. Until they accept that they'll either succeed or fail in tandem. Until they discover that their respective talents can compliment each other. If a few games are lost while this forced harmony is being formed, the losses in December and January will turn to victories in March, April, and possibly beyond.
Meanwhile, the brothers Maloof should make it clear that Musselman's job is secure. While they're at it, they should also procure a big man who can rebound and block shots. The Kings dramatic win in Salt Lake City proves that, in the wonderful world of the NBA, miracles are routine events. Hey, even Shaq and Kobe were able to make nicey-nicey.
 
I think the Bibby and Artest relationship will mirror how well (or poorly) the team is doing. Both of them are who they are, and are not going to change (at least not much). When Bibby slacks off on defense (as he is prone to do), you can see how it affects Artest. When Artest hogs the ball and repeatedly takes bad shots (and misses), you can see how that affects Bibby. It's on their faces and in their body language.
 
Some of these observations are ridiculous Charley Rosen-isms, but has anyone else noticed that Artest's defense has not been what it used to be? Seeing him have problems with AK47 last night was kind of eye-opening. I know he's had the back injuries and maybe that's still affecting things, but evne if he's making some great steals with his hands he is getting beat more than I've ever seen.
 
Some of these observations are ridiculous Charley Rosen-isms, but has anyone else noticed that Artest's defense has not been what it used to be? Seeing him have problems with AK47 last night was kind of eye-opening. I know he's had the back injuries and maybe that's still affecting things, but evne if he's making some great steals with his hands he is getting beat more than I've ever seen.

I don't think you can make a blanket statement about Ron's defense based on AK47. That guy is flat out fast and I can't think of very many people who could guard him all the time.

And this article is just humorous, IMHO. It is nice to see that Charley Rosen still doesn't get it when it comes to the Kings.

;)
 
trade artest/thomas and filler for kg.... very simple solution
 
trade artest/thomas and filler for kg.... very simple solution

I think the solution is even simpler:

Shareef Abdur Rahim is a proven scorer in this league, and needs more isolation looks with his back to the basket. The Kings should look to get him going as soon as he's on the floor...whether off the bench or as a starter. The problem is that as soon as he makes a turnover or misses a shot, the ball goes away from him. I don't see the same trend with Bibby or Artest.

I've been saying for a while that the Kings need to decide where their identity truly lies. Is it in Bibby & Miller doing their high-post stuff, or is it in Artest and SAR on the block, or is it KMART? I think the two most important people to get going offensively are KMart and SAR because if they get going early, they are tough to stop. They are our only two players who can consistently create a shot for themselves...(Artest can as well on occasion...but I think his D can better open up his offense). It's evident that when KMart and SAR get going, they are unstoppable, so if they get into the flow of the game early, they'll be consistent threats the rest of the game.
 
Ehh some of what Rosen said was true, some wasn't. I don't think Ron and Mike were fighting though, IIRC when Mike took a charge Ron and another player immediately ran to help him up and see if he was ok. I agree with him they should run S/Rs instead of dribbling around and jacking up jumpers. Artest tried to get a look inside and Mike was at the 3 point line, covered. Artest gave SAR a good shot, although since SAR is a PF and was 0/4 from the 3 point line before this you'd never know it.

Also I don't think they've declined, I think they've got nagging injuries. Ron's defense has definitely been effected by his back, but he was also very effective guarding Boozer. It was a nice win but I don't think it's a game that you judge the team off of. They definitely could've played better through the first 3 1/2 quarters.
 
I find the decision to go to Reef in the corner for the three a bit odd myself. Of course it worked and we are glad it did. But I'm not really in favor of dog earing that page in the playbook. If you watched the post game interview, Bibby was clearly puzzled by that same decision. Reef's value is in the post and drawing double teams. The more they run that, the better they'll get.
 
Ron doesn't look slow, but this article brings up some good points.

Bibby looked annoyed and gave a rolling of the eyes jester when Ron went to work on the game winning play. Don't know if these guys can co-exist, we'll see.
 
Normally I hate Rosen's stab-stab-stab style articles but one thing in there that I thought was good was this:

The answer is deceptively simple. Have the two of them hook up in perpetual S/Rs. Again, and again, and again, and … At least two dozen times per game. Until they accept that they'll either succeed or fail in tandem.

Makes perfect sense to me. I don't think (actually I have no idea) they have a fundamental problem with each other, but its easy to imagine as the team is losing there's a sort of natural "Stop taking bad shots!" and "Yeah well play some defense!" kind of bickering thats bound to happen with two guys who hate to lose.

Bibby's game is most effective working off of other players. He needs people to set him up and to get him the ball when he's open for 3. He's not really getting the ball back at the proper bibby moment when he's supposed to take his shot. He needs the dropoff bounce pass for those curls to the hoop. I'd like to think Artest could learn to work with the strengths of Bibby's game, seems like it should be possible.

Sometimes during the games it does seem like Artest avoids passing it to Bibby though.
 
To me, it almost seems that the media is trying to create a rivalry between the two of them. This has been written about in the past few days by a couple of different people, but it doesn't seem like there is a lot to support it at this point. Maybe there is... but you don't see it on the court enough to give it as much thought as it is being discussed lately.

IMO, people are always going to want to say that Artest is involved in some scandal, and with all of the attention that Bibby has had lately due to the Iverson thing (plus he has been struggling in his game), he's an easy target for the media.
 
I hope you guys take note of the fact that CHARLIE ROSEN wrote this article. In case you don't know, his articles are consistently utter nonsense. Believe me, he's made several allegations of team infighting and none of them have ever come true.

Take it with a grain of salt, I'm sure things are better than what Rosen would have you think they are
 
I hope you guys take note of the fact that CHARLIE ROSEN wrote this article. In case you don't know, his articles are consistently utter nonsense. Believe me, he's made several allegations of team infighting and none of them have ever come true.

Take it with a grain of salt, I'm sure things are better than what Rosen would have you think they are
Can't be said too often. Pretty much garbage.
 
The Chicago Tribune today added fuel to this fire

[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Kings: It's practically open warfare between Ron Artest and Mike Bibby, with Artest taking shots at Bibby about defense and suggesting he might have to defend the point guard too. Artest also said he's one of the league's dominant players and needs to shoot more. It's Shaq/Kobe II. You could get Bibby, but he makes $12.5 million. Kenny Thomas has been mentioned, as has Shareef Abdur-Rahim, one of my longtime favorites for the Bulls.

The "you could get Bibby" comment is Chicago looking at possible trade for Bibby. Hmmm
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The Chicago Tribune today added fuel to this fire

[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Kings: It's practically open warfare between Ron Artest and Mike Bibby, with Artest taking shots at Bibby about defense and suggesting he might have to defend the point guard too. Artest also said he's one of the league's dominant players and needs to shoot more. It's Shaq/Kobe II. You could get Bibby, but he makes $12.5 million. Kenny Thomas has been mentioned, as has Shareef Abdur-Rahim, one of my longtime favorites for the Bulls.

The "you could get Bibby" comment is Chicago looking at possible trade for Bibby. Hmmm
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Link doesn't work, but that little blurb sounds like Sam Smith? I rarely listen to Sam Smith. He spends his lifetime making stuff up and throwing crap on the wall and hoping something sticks. Especially has an amusing tendency to invent 1000 fantasy trades for his hometown Bulls every season.

In any case, his first line there sounds like basically he's read the same quotes we all have in the Bee.
 
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Sam Smith is as bad if not worst than charlie rosen. So i do not accept neither's crap.:mad: .

Although I will say that the Kings chemestry is as bad as it has ever been. I can't put my finger on it, but it seems like this team just do not mix together in personality.
 
Link doesn't work, but that little blurb sounds like Sam Smith? I rarely listen to Sam Smith. He spends his lifetime making stuff up and throwing crap on the wall and hoping something sticks. Especially has an amusing tendency to invent 1000 fantasy trades for his hometown Bulls every season.

In any case, his first line there sounds like basically he's read the same quotes we all have in the Bee.

I fixed the link and yes, as you thought, it's Sam Smith.

And that pretty much should put an end to any question of credibility...

First Rosen and then Smith? What's next? Ric Bucher?

;)
 
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