Haha well not sure you got my point but basically I agree with you and far more. Tbh I'd personally let IT walk just because he's spoilt a lot of the fun that I used to have in watching the Kings and the Kings broadcast, even in losing years.
Boston perspective on Rondo trade rumors
- Thread starter CelticsFan
- Start date
Haha well not sure you got my point but basically I agree with you and far more. Tbh I'd personally let IT walk just because he's spoilt a lot of the fun that I used to have in watching the Kings and the Kings broadcast, even in losing years.
To be honest, the only people that see IT as a starter are kings fans.. Part of me thinks Jerry and Grant only say the stuff they do to hype up IT for others, but the other part of me thinks they just have weird man crushes on him. This is why I don't think he's worth more than 7 million a year. IT is only a starting pg because coach is scared to see what Jimmer might be able to do..
Why not?
I think the Suns would match, which just means they'd be in a deep salary situation. However, I think we should pursue Bledsoe this off season. It sucks that he's a RFA.
CelticsFan
Bench
I guess my post was more geared to TheBayGuy. Rondo is a really really good player the Celtics are just not going to take the Kings castaways for him. I'm surprised some people here would be hesitant to give up IT McLemore and a pick. Gay and Rondo are friends that would help with both decision to resign throw in the D Cuz factor.
Padrino
All-Star
and it's a dwindling number of kings fans, at that, who truly see IT as a starter...
CelticsFan
Bench
1 more thing I was hesitant to give up Al Jefferson at the time for KG. Al Jefferson was a big time big man talent and was really young he was drafted out of HS. We gave up at the time the 5th pick in that draft for Allen too, the picked turned out to be Jeff Green. The point is when superstar talent is available you go get it not all these young guys pan out. Celtics were a bad franchise at the time of those trades. Winners change the cultures of teams
TheBadGuy
Bench
It's TheBadGuy, IT for Rondo alone wouldn't work so that's why I mentioned MT,Landry/Outlaw.
CelticsFan
Bench
Those aren't good players though they are role players. Why on earth would the Celtics take a package like that. Who out of that cast would be the score for the Celtics? Again the guy didn't demand a trade and he is signed next offseason.
TheBadGuy
Bench
Landry can be a decent backup to Sullinger or Bass or whoever the Celtics' big man is, well MT can be effective if he gets into the rhythm plus his expiring contract and Ainge likes IT. I did not say Rondo demanded a trade, I am just basing the Rondo trade rumors after the Celtics FO mentioned they will go on a rebuilding mode, with Rondo their only star player left from the championship team will likely be traded.
rainmaker
Hall of Famer
Around here that qualifies as height prejudice.
May I ask, why do you hate short people?
You do realise the Celtics have an overload of players at the 4 right?
Come on man.. that's highway robbery.....
Landry is a bs player who provides nothing to the kings.
MT is a streaky shooter who cannot help any team out unless he is the 1st/2nd option.
Outlaw doesn't even't play...
So it's basically IT straight up for Rondo? What a horrible deal for the Celtics. IT would probably be behind Bayless in their depth chart.
TheBadGuy
Bench
Well some guy here maybe wants IT for Rondo straight up anyway, but it's unlikely the Celtics would do that.
randymoss1881
Starter
I was saying we do Bledsoe at 15mill instead of gay at like 17. I think I would pick Bledsoe over Gay did you see the way he played this year?! Plus he is an elite defender.
With the way Dragic/green are playing would they match our offer if it was max though. They would have to choose between Bledsoe or another free agent they can't offered both, there backcourt is proving to be outstanding without him. That might make them go in a different direction to beef up the team in weak areas (center/PF/SF). I could see them going after Monroe, Gay, bosh, deng, heyward, or turner.
Suns is still owned by Sarver, so they might squeeze Gay under the cap if Rudy opts out (if Frye wants salary bump this off-season, it becomes impossible), but Suns also have to think about summer 2015: Dragic and Morris twins will look for a big salary upgrades, that will most likely push Phoenix over the LT.
Or, to be honest, who EVER saw him fitting in that role.
Huh? My post was in response to TheBadGuy missing said wit and sense of humor..
ParniValjak
All-Star
Does anyone know when is the trade deadline? I know its sometime after the ASW but not sure of exact date.
I do get this sinking feeling that we won't make any deals or any significant deals. If we are to do anything it will be our trash for someone's trash.
I do get this sinking feeling that we won't make any deals or any significant deals. If we are to do anything it will be our trash for someone's trash.
macadocious
Starter
Feb 20
SacTownKid
Hall of Famer
Rajon Rondo is a good player, but he's no KG, never has been, and is coming off of a major knee injury. Though the knee doesn't really scare me personally, I think he'll be just fine long term but still, it factors in value wise. While I don't think Thomas should be equally compared with players like Stephen Curry or Kryie Irving, the fact that he's currently putting up production on their level can't be ignored.
I think IT with the pick or Ben is the limit, if you're giving up up more, you better be getting a Kevin Garnett level player.
beb0p
Starter
A lot of ink has been spend on a trade scenario that will never ever happen. Like never, never, ever. Let us count the ways:
1. The Kings want 3 pt shooting. They let a non-shooting SG walked, drafted a great 3-pt shooter (at least in college), signed a big man (Landry) who mastered the art of setting screens to open up shooters in GS, and dreamt of Klay Thompson. If it isn't obvious to everyone, let me spell it, the Kings want bombers out on the wings to open things up for Cousins inside.
2. The Kings can't trade the #1 pick before the trade deadline.
3. The Kings' offense is built on guards who can shoot. If we get Rondo, Malone will literally have to revamp the entire offense.
4. Even if the Kings can trade the #1 pick, IT + BMac + 1st rd pick are WAY TOO MUCH for Rondo. Let's think about the future - if BMac blows up into a 20 pt scorer and if the #1 pick turns out to be another stud; then you've basically traded away a dynasty for Rondo. Is Rondo a good player? Sure. If he worth the potential you're giving up? No. Seriously, this is the type of trade that could look very bad for PDA years from now and could possibly get him fired. PDA is NOT going to pull the trigger on this one. You can count on it.
5. Rondo is no angel himself. A locker room with Rondo and Cousins? The question is is Malone up for it?
6. The Kings need to accumulate talent, they're in no position where it makes sense to give up three very talented players for one, unless that one is like a Durrant level player.
7. Lets look at it from Cousins' point of view - you took away a PG that he developed great chemistry with and is a leader in the locker room and a great three-pt shooter; and replaced him with a great defensive passer who can't shoot and not a great locker room guy. Is he thinking, "Great! I continue to get touches... same as always" or is he thinking, "WTF! Teams are triple teaming me and my passes are not being converted. I have less space to work with because my PG refuses to shoot! To top it off, the new guy is moody just like me and I'd hate to deal with me!"
8. What guarantee do you have that Rondo will stick around? Answer: None. This could turn out to be a 1 1/2 season rental... for the price of IT, a young promising SG, and a lottery pick in a deep draft.
9. Keep in mind. Rondo becomes a FA in 2015. Which two teams have lots of caproom in 2015? The Knicks and the Lakers. If the Knicks or Lakers chase after Rondo what is the chance that he picks Sacramento?
.
1. The Kings want 3 pt shooting. They let a non-shooting SG walked, drafted a great 3-pt shooter (at least in college), signed a big man (Landry) who mastered the art of setting screens to open up shooters in GS, and dreamt of Klay Thompson. If it isn't obvious to everyone, let me spell it, the Kings want bombers out on the wings to open things up for Cousins inside.
2. The Kings can't trade the #1 pick before the trade deadline.
3. The Kings' offense is built on guards who can shoot. If we get Rondo, Malone will literally have to revamp the entire offense.
4. Even if the Kings can trade the #1 pick, IT + BMac + 1st rd pick are WAY TOO MUCH for Rondo. Let's think about the future - if BMac blows up into a 20 pt scorer and if the #1 pick turns out to be another stud; then you've basically traded away a dynasty for Rondo. Is Rondo a good player? Sure. If he worth the potential you're giving up? No. Seriously, this is the type of trade that could look very bad for PDA years from now and could possibly get him fired. PDA is NOT going to pull the trigger on this one. You can count on it.
5. Rondo is no angel himself. A locker room with Rondo and Cousins? The question is is Malone up for it?
6. The Kings need to accumulate talent, they're in no position where it makes sense to give up three very talented players for one, unless that one is like a Durrant level player.
7. Lets look at it from Cousins' point of view - you took away a PG that he developed great chemistry with and is a leader in the locker room and a great three-pt shooter; and replaced him with a great defensive passer who can't shoot and not a great locker room guy. Is he thinking, "Great! I continue to get touches... same as always" or is he thinking, "WTF! Teams are triple teaming me and my passes are not being converted. I have less space to work with because my PG refuses to shoot! To top it off, the new guy is moody just like me and I'd hate to deal with me!"
8. What guarantee do you have that Rondo will stick around? Answer: None. This could turn out to be a 1 1/2 season rental... for the price of IT, a young promising SG, and a lottery pick in a deep draft.
9. Keep in mind. Rondo becomes a FA in 2015. Which two teams have lots of caproom in 2015? The Knicks and the Lakers. If the Knicks or Lakers chase after Rondo what is the chance that he picks Sacramento?
.
Hadlowe
Starter
I'll address this point by point. 1. Thomas isn't really a spot up shooter right now. He is a good three point shooter, but takes most of his threes off the dribble and in transition. Thomas is most effective in the lane where he is good at drawing contact and getting to the line and occasionally kicking the ball out to the perimeter. We don't run many pick and roll sets to free him up for a shot, and when we do, he takes most of those shots in the mid-range and not behind the arc. I don't see much different between how Rondo would run the team and how Thomas currently does other than that Rondo is a FAR superior floor general (really, there is almost no comparison between the two) while IT is more prone to get fouled and get to the line.
Trading the pick is more difficult, but not impossible. We would have to involve Chicago in the trade somehow or get a pick back in return.
While I disagree about getting a guard who can shoot, you're not wrong about having to revamp the offense. Doc Rivers' offense in Boston was one of the more sophisticated offenses in running precise off-ball movements where Ray Allen would run through a gauntlet of screens that either freed him for a jumper or caused a bad rotation leading to a mismatch on Garnett or Pierce. While Malone is certainly better than Smart in running plays, his offense is still fairly basic, running mostly flex sets leading to low post opportunities for cousins or wing/high post takes for Gay. Asking the team to learn an entirely new offensive system based on Rondo being floor general is going to be ugly this year. It should pay dividends next year, though.
The problem is that BMac isn't going to be a 20 ppg scorer with IT running point. IT is the 20 ppg scorer there. BMac would potentially be a great fit with Rondo. However, he's not the only guy who could be a great fit with Rondo. Really, you want a more developed guy than BMac in the starting lineup if you're going with a win-now scenario in getting Rondo, and, preferably, a guy who can score 12-15 points and defend the perimeter well. You can probably get Jodie Meeks, P.J. Tucker, or Brandon Rush for relatively cheap as replacement in the off-season, fitting any one of those guys under MLE. In the meantime, I think Thornton mights experience a mini-revival if he was getting the ball more than 3-4 times per game and getting it in good spots to shoot.
This is a legitimate concern. Still, I would rather have a winning team with some contention than a losing team that has barbeque at each other's houses on Fridays. Michael Jordan didn't get along with all his teammates. He punched Steve Kerr in the face at practice on that '96 bulls squad.
Fit matters. Timing matters. BMac may be a very good NBA player in 3 to 5 years. That isn't the timeline the team is working on now. Boogie and Gay need complementary players to help them win next year/2 years from now. BMac doesn't fit that timeline. IT doesn't fit the skillset/demeanor. The draft pick very likely does not fit the timeline. While Sacramento has not been a free agent destination in the past, if you tell some vets that you can get them playing time with Rondo/Gay/Cousins, you have an easier time persuading them to sign 1-2 year cheapie deals to try to make the playoffs.
I disagree with the chemistry issue. From the beginning, having IT/Cousins/Gay on the floor is a bit of an odd mix because you have 3 high usage guys and both IT and Cousins want to score on the left block (IT on drives, Cousins on post-ups/high post iso). Rondo scores well, despite not being a scorer. He generally converts at just a shade under 50% from the field, but the major reason you bring him in is because of his gaudy assist%. If you want a happy big man, give him easy looks at the basket.
But the biggest reason you swap Ben/IT/Pick for Rondo is the defensive differential. The Kings NEED better perimeter defense. IT's perimeter defense, even when he is in the mood to play it, is subject to being shot over, and laughed at when he gets switched onto a big man. Rondo (pre-injury) was the single best defensive point guard in the league.
This is true, and it's a concern. You would have to hope that we start winning games next year and make a playoff push. That wouldn't guarantee that Rondo stays, but it would certainly lend itself to a strong argument. The team also has a fair amount of cap space to resign Rondo/Gay in 2015.
It would be contingent upon winning. That's certainly an argument the Knicks will not be making next year (and probably not in 2015, either). The Lakers may be able to turn things around with a healthy Kobe/high pick/big free agent signing next year. I don't see Rondo and Kobe co-existing well, though. He and Nash were lackluster in the time they shared on the floor. I would give the advantage to Sacramento where the team would (presumably) be built around Rondo/Gay/Cousins with defensive roleplayers and 3 and D guys at the 2.
At this point we still don't know, if FO is going "win now" route. There are rumors about true PG, but not any about defensive players. I think FO is moving towards competitiveness, but I'm not sure they are at "cash all chips" stage. Two trades so far were opportunistic talent gathering ones.
Kingster
Hall of Famer
We have an incredibly short memory around here. As far as the chemistry of Cousins, Gay and IT, it was a very nice compound up until Cousins and Gay got injured, and then when Cousins came back and got his self esteem injured from the All Star snub. Reading some of these posts, it's as if the healthy Cousins/Gay/IT trio never had a good game together. Really, it's just the opposite. They looked great together when healthy. What didn't look great was the bench. And why should we be surprised about a depleted bench when we traded away our bench to get Gay?
If Cousins, Gay and IT are healthy physically and emotionally, they will again look very good together and will start winning some games against some good teams. Remember when the Kings shellacked Chicago? Was it so long ago you can't recall? Hang in there and review some tape of only a few weeks ago to get your confidence back.
If Cousins, Gay and IT are healthy physically and emotionally, they will again look very good together and will start winning some games against some good teams. Remember when the Kings shellacked Chicago? Was it so long ago you can't recall? Hang in there and review some tape of only a few weeks ago to get your confidence back.
Gary
All-Star
Well, according to what they have "said", they're building for the future. I assume we will have a playoff team by the time we open the new building?
Obviously that is the plan. We are also setting ourselves up to possibly have the chance of a big free agent splash in that offseason.
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