Boston perspective on Rondo trade rumors

[TyFreak Evans]

If we're gonna get Rondo, we're gonna have to give something of potential high value...and what the OP is saying is that they'd like to take a chance on Ben along with a draft pick. Danny Ainge is not going to make our lives easy by taking only what we're able to easily part with.

Good point, but I still wouldn't part with Ben that easily...Just my opinion....I'd rather part with a couple of draft picks instead, and some cash....But not Ben (and yes, I will be very sad if I see Ben go so soon)

 

[CelticsFan]

What would you want from the kings ideally? Unrelated q, were you also pushing for a DeMarcus Cousins trade last year? I remember many articles where it stated Jarred Sullinger and Fab Melo for Cousins...

IT, Mclemore and a 1st. I wasn't pushing for Cousins last season because believe it or not I wasn't sold on him, I didn't like his attitude. Clearly I was wrong the kid is a stud!

 

[VF21]

Good point, but I still wouldn't part with Ben that easily...Just my opinion....I'd rather part with a couple of draft picks instead, and some cash....But not Ben (and yes, I will be very sad if I see Ben go so soon)

We don't have the picks to part with. And if sending Ben (and IT) to Boston got us Rondo, I'd drive him to the airport and wave buh-bye. Ben is an unproven rookie...who may or may not develop into a rounded player. Rajon Rondo is a superior player who would immediately elevate the Kings into playoff contention. When you've been in the cellar as long as we have, you make the big moves. PDA already got us Rudy. Getting us Rondo would be the shot heard round the world.

 

[TyFreak Evans]

We don't have the picks to part with. And if sending Ben (and IT) to Boston got us Rondo, I'd drive him to the airport and wave buh-bye. Ben is an unproven rookie...who may or may not develop into a rounded player. Rajon Rondo is a superior player who would immediately elevate the Kings into playoff contention. When you've been in the cellar as long as we have, you make the big moves. PDA already got us Rudy. Getting us Rondo would be the shot heard round the world.

Personally, I would not be willing to take the gamble.

If we acquire Rondo, and it works in our favor, I will be one of the first ones to praise the organization for taking a risk, you can bank on that. I will even point out my arguments tonight, and remind people that I was against the move at one point. With that being said.....We shall agree to disagree.

 

[CelticsFan]

Didnt realize but we are playing each other tomorrow! Lets get something done while you guys are here in Boston

 

[CelticsFan]

We don't have the picks to part with. And if sending Ben (and IT) to Boston got us Rondo, I'd drive him to the airport and wave buh-bye. Ben is an unproven rookie...who may or may not develop into a rounded player. Rajon Rondo is a superior player who would immediately elevate the Kings into playoff contention. When you've been in the cellar as long as we have, you make the big moves. PDA already got us Rudy. Getting us Rondo would be the shot heard round the world.

VF could we instead of trading picks give the option to swap? The Celtics have a 2nd first this season and may acquire another late 1st for 2014

 

[twslam07]

No offense, but can't we just try to sign him in 2015 when he becomes a free agent? The Kings will have plenty of cap space then. I would much rather hold on to McLemore and our 2015 draft pick and try to sign him. If we traded for him, we would have no guarantees that he would resign with us.

Also do the rest of you think that Rondo, Gay, and Cousins can coexist? I don't know why, but I get the feeling that Cousins and Gay would be better off with a less ball dominant PG who can defend and knock down threes (like a Lowry). I don't see Rondo as much of an off the ball player, and Cousins and Gay like to operate with the ball in their hands. They aren't just finishers. They are creators as well.

I can be persuaded to see Rondo as a good fit, I just thought I would voice my concern to see if anyone had similar thoughts.

 

[DesertFox]

No offense, but can't we just try to sign him in 2015 when he becomes a free agent? The Kings will have plenty of cap space then. I would much rather hold on to McLemore and our 2015 draft pick and try to sign him. If we traded for him, we would have no guarantees that he would resign with us.

Also do the rest of you think that Rondo, Gay, and Cousins can coexist? I don't know why, but I get the feeling that Cousins and Gay would be better off with a less ball dominant PG who can defend and knock down threes (like a Lowry). I don't see Rondo as much of an off the ball player, and Cousins and Gay like to operate with the ball in their hands. They aren't just finishers. They are creators as well.

I can be persuaded to see Rondo as a good fit, I just thought I would voice my concern to see if anyone had similar thoughts.

Never really considered the ball issue.

But KG PP and Allen were creators on their old teams too. Rondo grew around them just fine and vice versa.

 

[twslam07]

Never really considered the ball issue.

But KG PP and Allen were creators on their old teams too. Rondo grew around them just fine and vice versa.

You're right. Rondo did grow around them just fine. But can he readapt again to what this team needs? I don't know. I really don't have a very good grasp on how he would fit in on this team. I haven't watched him enough to comment on how he plays. However, I do know that he is a stellar defender, and if there is one thing we need, it's defense.

 

[mac]

You're right. Rondo did grow around them just fine. But can he readapt again to what this team needs? I don't know. I really don't have a very good grasp on how he would fit in on this team. I haven't watched him enough to comment on how he plays. However, I do know that he is a stellar defender, and if there is one thing we need, it's defense.

Well it works both ways. Cousins and Gay would also have to learn to play off of Rondo as well, to get themselves in position to be set up as opposed to just getting the ball and going 1 on 1 (or in Cousins' case at times 1 on 3).

 

[fanop]

You're right. Rondo did grow around them just fine. But can he readapt again to what this team needs? I don't know. I really don't have a very good grasp on how he would fit in on this team. I haven't watched him enough to comment on how he plays. However, I do know that he is a stellar defender, and if there is one thing we need, it's defense.

Lowry is more of a ball dominant pg than Rondo is.. Rondo runs the offense and can get his teammates easier shots. If you think about it, he did play with Paul Pierce and KG. Both players demand the ball a lot and like to run the offense from time to time. He'd have no problem letting Gay dribble the ball up.

I think this would be something new that the kings never had... a pg who actually knows how to run a team. Right now we're just accustomed to isos, and poor shots. I think we've seen too many times where IT/Tyreke either dribbles the ball down to 5s left then taking a bad shot. We also let Cuz work in the post a lot, and we rarely run a PnR. Rondo could give Cuz those easy shots we saw Jimmer give to him against Chicago. I think Gay is a great shooter, but he has poor shot selections, however most of his contested last minute shots always make it in for some reason.

I think Rondo will help out ball movement in the team and make life easier for everyone.. plus he defends!

 

[Glenn]

I hope it is absolutely clear that the Kings cannot trade their 1st round pick this year before the trade deadline this year. It is tied up in another trade.

 

[Gary]

IT, Mclemore and a 1st. I wasn't pushing for Cousins last season because believe it or not I wasn't sold on him, I didn't like his attitude. Clearly I was wrong the kid is a stud!

I am seriously not knowing where this comes from. Yes he does have the most technical fouls but it's not like he's out there picking fights every night or anything. He's actually been really mellow this year, yet people still bring it up as if he's being a malcontent.

 

[KingsCitizen]

The Kings pick is top 12 protected. If Kings draft position fall to 1-12, it will be Kings' pick and Kings 2015 first round will be owned by the Bulls.
I doubt that prevents the Kings from trading it as say a top 5 protected 2014 with condition that if the pick goes higher than 5 or lower than 12, Celtics will own our 2016 or 2017(if consecutive years of no first round pick is not allowed) first round pick.

 

[ParniValjak]

I would agree it would take less to trade for Lowry but he is a FA after this season so he would be a 1/2 season rental. I really like Rondo he would be a perfect fit for the Kings

Its a big assumption to make that Lowry would be a one year rental. There is absolutely no reason why we could not re-sign him. Cousins-Gay-Lowry is still a framework of a play-off team and with a couple of more moves a good chance to contend.

 

[KingMilz]

I honestly would prefer some other guards to Rondo tbh just cause we would have to literally give up the world for him and I don't even know how well he would fit, for some reason I had a feeling Rudy Gay would fit in but I just don't have that with Rondo tbh I would prefer a Kyle Lowry/Jeff Teague (not saying they better) over him with the Gay Cousins combo and they are cheaper as well.

 

[Mass]

DMC and Gay are playing great right now, and they have IT at PG. And that's a ball dominant PG! Rondo is a willing and great passer, maybe the best in the league today. He has played with stars before, and he knows what it takes to win. As I said in another thread, I'd give them anybody not named Cosuins and Gay for him. Once you have Rondo, Gay and Cuz, you have a legit core and you just fill the roster with veterans and role players.

I also don't care about this year's draft pick. We won't get a top 3 pick in this draft, and I don't think you can find players of Rondo's level at the 6-10 range.

I still have hope for McLemore, but I'd trade him for Rondo without even thinking about it. B-Mac will never be at Rondo's level. When you have the chance to get a 27-year-old 4 times all star with championship experience, you have to go for it.

 

[CelticsFan]

Its a big assumption to make that Lowry would be a one year rental. There is absolutely no reason why we could not re-sign him. Cousins-Gay-Lowry is still a framework of a play-off team and with a couple of more moves a good chance to contend.

Lowry and Gay just played together and it didn't really work, Lowry has played better since Gay has been gone. When Lowry and Gay where together in a weak east with arguably better pieces they couldn't do it. Being mediocre in the NBA sucks! It's very hard to get superstar players like Rondo they just don't get traded often in their primes.

 

[Hadlowe]

No offense, but can't we just try to sign him in 2015 when he becomes a free agent? The Kings will have plenty of cap space then. I would much rather hold on to McLemore and our 2015 draft pick and try to sign him. If we traded for him, we would have no guarantees that he would resign with us.

Also do the rest of you think that Rondo, Gay, and Cousins can coexist? I don't know why, but I get the feeling that Cousins and Gay would be better off with a less ball dominant PG who can defend and knock down threes (like a Lowry). I don't see Rondo as much of an off the ball player, and Cousins and Gay like to operate with the ball in their hands. They aren't just finishers. They are creators as well.

I can be persuaded to see Rondo as a good fit, I just thought I would voice my concern to see if anyone had similar thoughts.

There is a significant difference between a ball-dominant, pass-first point guard and a ball-dominant, score-first point guard. While Rondo may be pounding the ball for 12-15 seconds of the shot clock, he is looking for passing seams and ways to get a rim attack or corner three for his teammates the entire time. There is only one other point guard who gets their big men easy looks at the rim and their wings wide-open jumpers as frequently as Rondo, and I think Chris Paul is a little bit unattainable.

I would hate to give up McLemore to get Rondo. If anyone is going to help McLemore polish his game, it's the guy who made Ray Allen a champion.

 

[CelticsFan]

DMC and Gay are playing great right now, and they have IT at PG. And that's a ball dominant PG! Rondo is a willing and great passer, maybe the best in the league today. He has played with stars before, and he knows what it takes to win. As I said in another thread, I'd give them anybody not named Cosuins and Gay for him. Once you have Rondo, Gay and Cuz, you have a legit core and you just fill the roster with veterans and role players.

I also don't care about this year's draft pick. We won't get a top 3 pick in this draft, and I don't think you can find players of Rondo's level at the 6-10 range.

I still have hope for McLemore, but I'd trade him for Rondo without even thinking about it. B-Mac will never be at Rondo's level. When you have the chance to get a 27-year-old 4 times all star with championship experience, you have to go for it.

I agree with your Mass though they obviously play different positions IF McLemore grows up to reach Rondo level you would be really lucky. We know how most of these guys pan out. From a Boston's perspective I look at it as McLemore has talent but I wouldn't be sold on him as our SG of the future. He hasn't done anything, I dont see him like you guys every night but I envision him being a really good player off the bench on a good team. Maybe he blossoms into a starter. I would still want Boston to target a FA SG in the off season if we decide to move on from Bradley, Lance Stephenson or do some kind of sign and trade for Hayward.

 

[Kingster]

Rose goes down with a major knee injury; comes back; then he goes down again.
Westbrook goes down with a major knee injury; comes back; then he goes down again.

What's that phrase about things happening in threes?

 

[mac]

Rose goes down with a major knee injury; comes back; then he goes down again.
Westbrook goes down with a major knee injury; comes back; then he goes down again.

What's that phrase about things happening in threes?

Yes because Rajon Rondo plays exactly like Rose and Westbrook, and no other player has ever come back from a knee injury before.

 

[Telemachus]

Rose goes down with a major knee injury; comes back; then he goes down again.
Westbrook goes down with a major knee injury; comes back; then he goes down again.

What's that phrase about things happening in threes?

Didn't Kobe already fill that roll?

 

[Hadlowe]

Rose goes down with a major knee injury; comes back; then he goes down again.
Westbrook goes down with a major knee injury; comes back; then he goes down again.

What's that phrase about things happening in threes?

Rose and Westbrook are speed demons and rim attackers. That is almost the entirety of their game. While Rondo is(was) very quick, he thrives in the half-court and doesn't get his points by jumping into 250 pound dudes in an attempt to get free throws. He gets them by passing to his own 250 pound dudes or wide-open wing players.

 

[King-Da-Yah]

I am seriously not knowing where this comes from. Yes he does have the most technical fouls but it's not like he's out there picking fights every night or anything. He's actually been really mellow this year, yet people still bring it up as if he's being a malcontent.

You should have heard the Celtics announcer on Keith and Dave's show this morning, talking about how the kings are dysfunctional and cousins needs to mature. Nobody actually pays attention to us, they just regurgitate whatever the talking heads say/think. Compared to years past we have been better off this season IMO.

 

[Kingster]

Kobe was an achilles.

How soon after Rose and Westbrook came back from injury did they go down again?
Tick. Tick. Tick.

Aren't you all a little worried about another A C L?

I'd like to know from the docs that specialize in that injury what the recidivsm rate is. Also, I'd like to know if there is a declining curve on the recidivism rate. If he gets past a month without another
A C L, do the odds of injury recurrence go down? After 2 months, is it less than one month? Is there a pattern at all that one can glean from previous injuries? Giving up a lot for Rondo and then having him go down with another A C L would not be a happy experience.

 

[Gary]

Its a big assumption to make that Lowry would be a one year rental. There is absolutely no reason why we could not re-sign him. Cousins-Gay-Lowry is still a framework of a play-off team and with a couple of more moves a good chance to contend.

I usually shy away from combos that have not worked in the past. I know it was probably mostly DeRozan but this would be a trade that I would get Rudy's stamp of approval first.

 

[Gary]

You should have heard the Celtics announcer on Keith and Dave's show this morning, talking about how the kings are dysfunctional and cousins needs to mature. Nobody actually pays attention to us, they just regurgitate whatever the talking heads say/think. Compared to years past we have been better off this season IMO.

Yikes. I might have to pull a few Celtic programs up when I am at work to see what they're saying. We're 50 games in and Cousins has been doing great, all things considered.

 

[LPKingsFan]

I usually shy away from combos that have not worked in the past. I know it was probably mostly DeRozan but this would be a trade that I would get Rudy's stamp of approval first.

You can go to basketball reference and see that, while the Gay/Lowry combo was -1.6 points/100 possessions this season, that appears to have been his best combo with the Raptors this season. The Gay/DeRozen pairing was -5. (for what it's worth, Gay/McLemore is -7.5!). Link here.

Last season, Gay/Lowry was +4 while Gay/DeRozen was +3.1.

 

[Capt. Factorial]

The Kings pick is top 12 protected. If Kings draft position fall to 1-12, it will be Kings' pick and Kings 2015 first round will be owned by the Bulls.

That 2015 first round pick is also protected 1-10 or it passes to 2016 (1-10 protected) or 2017 (1-10 protected), or at worst becomes a 2017 second-rounder.

I doubt that prevents the Kings from trading it as say a top 5 protected 2014 with condition that if the pick goes higher than 5 or lower than 12, Celtics will own our 2016 or 2017(if consecutive years of no first round pick is not allowed) first round pick.

Your doubt does not hold as much weight as the actual rule. The Stepien Rule stipulates that a team cannot make a trade which will (or might) leave them without a first-round pick in two consecutive drafts. If we were to attempt to make the trade you suggest, it would fall afoul of the Stepien Rule because there is a way that we would not have a first-round pick in both the 2014 and 2015 drafts (e.g. Kings draft #8 in 2014 -> Celtics; Kings draft #18 in 2015 -> Bulls).

There are ways to trade the 1-12 portion of our 2014 pick, but they rely on either getting an unprotected 2014 pick back in (or before) that trade, or doing it on draft day (when it is no longer a future pick). Oddly enough, it would be much harder for us to trade a protected portion of the 1-12 protected 2014 pick than to trade it unprotected, because if we put protection on it then even though we would have acquired a 2014 pick in the meantime so that we are in compliance with the Stepien Rule for the 2014/2015 drafts, we might still keep our own 2014 pick and instead end up without a pick in 2015/2016. We'd either have to get unprotected picks in every draft through 2017 (right!), or trade a protected portion of the 2014 pick that extinguishes if not conveyed (again, right!), or trade a protected portion of the 2014 pick that becomes a 2019 pick if not conveyed (I don't know if this big gap in years would be legal; I've never seen that happen but I've seen anything say it's not legal).

Alternately, instead of outright trading our pick, we could trade the "right to swap", with protections against conveyance to Chicago. That however would probably not be a very attractive option to the Celtics because they will probably have very good draft position for their own draft pick over the next few years.