Brick, thank you for the lecture but I know the salary rules. I am thinking about using Bonzi in a sign and trade because no one wants part with their good big man for Kenny Thomas straight up. However, a number of teams would be interested if we bundle Bonzi into the deal. Of course, in an ideal world, we want to trade Brad, KT, and Corliss for a star level big man and a backup point guard but do you know any team that wants to trade away their quality big man for Brad after seeing how he performed in this playoff series? I am just being realistic here. The Kings have to trade one of their impact players (Artest, Bibby, and Bonzi) in order to acquire a star level big man. Bonzi is the most replaceable among the three impact players we have since there is no quality back up players, who can shift into the starter role，in the point guard or small forward spot.
Bonzi's Stock Will Soar....
- Thread starter ForlornKing
- Start date
SacTownKid
Hall of Famer
The thing is, most GM's, well...most GOOD GM's won't go out and throw the bank at Bonzi for his playoff performance. Don't forget that a lot of teams, maybe even the Kings, will be afraid to sign Bonzi long term with the rapsheet (true or not) he has.
Just because of this playoff series we are not exactly going to be able to get KG with a deal contructed around Bonzi Wells.
Just because of this playoff series we are not exactly going to be able to get KG with a deal contructed around Bonzi Wells.
Bricklayer
Don't Make Me Use The Bat
yanon said:
Trading an impact player to get another impact guy doesn't really get you anywhere.
Kings fans are also doing their normal thing when it comes to Brad -- suddenly he's horrible and NOBODY would trade Calvin Booth for him. Which is just silly. And you are also forgetting 2 or 3 interesting names which could be dangled -- Reef, Cisco and Kevin -- as well as our #1 pick. We've also got a pair of ending contracts (Corliss, Potapenko) for teams looking to dump salary. We are actually in pretty good position to make a move. Variety of assets before we start tearing the heart out of the team that has challenged the champs here.
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beemerr23
Guest
VERY well said, and that's why I said that Miller and Thomas will be gone regardless, but throwing Bonzi into the mix could get us a nice C. Martin can run the SG position just fine, also try to pick up a nice PG while trading Hart. Keep Corliss though, the fans love him here.yanon said:
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beemerr23
Guest
It does when you have someone suitable to play the SG position and you're lacking shotblocking/Rebounding.Bricklayer said:
BALLER4LIFE
G-League
Bricklayer said:
Here’s the deal. The kings must look at their weakest links in the teams and try to trade them off. Personally I feel the weakest links are Miller, and Kenny because he is undersized. Miller gets abused in the post and Kenny just does not have a consistent jump shot. Corliss will be an interesting piece to throw in because of his expiring contract. But I feel the kings will need to include Bonzi to get a quality player. Sure bonzi has been playing out of this world so far in the playoffs but will he remain that same player after he gets his huge contract? I personally feel bonzi is too injure prone to offer a big contract. Martin is beginning to come in his own which is great. We should really consider packaging bonzi and Kenny/miller in a sign and trade because the kings NEED a quality big man. If we can get a quality big man, with artest and bibby, this team will be very, very dangerous!
Bricklayer
Don't Make Me Use The Bat
We CAN'T just "package Bonzi in an S&T". He's not ours to package. He can just walk away for free, and if we are LUCKY enough to even get a chance to S&T him, it will be to the team of his choice, not ours.
P.S. As an aside Bonzi's too injury prone based on what? He had a single injury. No history of it. Pretty much plays 70+ games every season.
P.S. As an aside Bonzi's too injury prone based on what? He had a single injury. No history of it. Pretty much plays 70+ games every season.
Once before we had a true warrior. A lot of us tried to explain that you don't just trade that kind of player away or let him walk. But he was traded...and for an infinitely better set of reasons than anything ANYONE has come up with regarding Bonzi.
What happened after the trade? Look at the numbers. Decide for yourselves...
If we do NOT sign Bonzi to a contract the hue and cry among Kings faithful will and shoud be enough to topple Arco Arena.
Bonzi Wells is just what the team needed. Petrie went out and got him and he and Artest are truly forces of nature.
You don't trade away one of your best and create a gaping hole just to shore up another gaping hole.
What happened after the trade? Look at the numbers. Decide for yourselves...
If we do NOT sign Bonzi to a contract the hue and cry among Kings faithful will and shoud be enough to topple Arco Arena.
Bonzi Wells is just what the team needed. Petrie went out and got him and he and Artest are truly forces of nature.
You don't trade away one of your best and create a gaping hole just to shore up another gaping hole.
nbrans
All-Star
Bonzi's been great in the postseason, but there's the flip side that it's the apex of a mostly disappointing career. This is the best Bonzi anyone will ever see. This playoff series has been the perfect storm of contract year/good matchup/playoffs that Bonzi will find, and he's probably going to cash in.
Yes. Bonzi's been an impact player in the playoffs, and he has played like he means it and has given the Kings everything he has and more. But there isn't a long history of players who just happened to "get it" when they are 30 and in a contract year, and then go on to great heights afterwards.
If you look at Bonzi's two best years in the league, one was this year (contract year) the other was 2001-2002 when he averaged a career high 17 points and a career high 6 rebounds. It also just happened to be a contract year. The year after the Blazers gave him a big contract? Fewer points, fewer rebounds, and a certain comment about the fans not mattering. Every single year after 2002-2003 marked a new low in almost every relevant scoring and rebounding category (not to mention ever-increasing off the court issues)... until this year, when he magically turned it around and morphed into a model citizen. Again, just happens to be a contract year.
Maybe I'm cynical, but I don't think it helps to get emotional about someone like Bonzi even though he's showing how great he can be when he is focused and is in the right situation. But you can't deny that he's the poster child for the Contract Year effect.
I don't agree with Bricklayer that we can just re-up Bonzi at $8 million and it's a wash. That's a big chunk of salary that could become a very large albatross very quickly, it's probably more than he's worth, and it's money that could be used on a big man. The Maloofs have stated that they don't want to be tax payers, and if they overpay Bonzi Petrie probably won't have room to use the full MLE on a big man.
And I'm not some Bonzi hater -- my first post on Kingsfans.com was about bringing Bonzi to Sacramento. I just think Petrie should be rational about Bonzi in the offseason, and let someone else overbid based on one great playoffs in an otherwise disappointing career. Hopefully he can get something good in a sign and trade.
Yes. Bonzi's been an impact player in the playoffs, and he has played like he means it and has given the Kings everything he has and more. But there isn't a long history of players who just happened to "get it" when they are 30 and in a contract year, and then go on to great heights afterwards.
If you look at Bonzi's two best years in the league, one was this year (contract year) the other was 2001-2002 when he averaged a career high 17 points and a career high 6 rebounds. It also just happened to be a contract year. The year after the Blazers gave him a big contract? Fewer points, fewer rebounds, and a certain comment about the fans not mattering. Every single year after 2002-2003 marked a new low in almost every relevant scoring and rebounding category (not to mention ever-increasing off the court issues)... until this year, when he magically turned it around and morphed into a model citizen. Again, just happens to be a contract year.
Maybe I'm cynical, but I don't think it helps to get emotional about someone like Bonzi even though he's showing how great he can be when he is focused and is in the right situation. But you can't deny that he's the poster child for the Contract Year effect.
I don't agree with Bricklayer that we can just re-up Bonzi at $8 million and it's a wash. That's a big chunk of salary that could become a very large albatross very quickly, it's probably more than he's worth, and it's money that could be used on a big man. The Maloofs have stated that they don't want to be tax payers, and if they overpay Bonzi Petrie probably won't have room to use the full MLE on a big man.
And I'm not some Bonzi hater -- my first post on Kingsfans.com was about bringing Bonzi to Sacramento. I just think Petrie should be rational about Bonzi in the offseason, and let someone else overbid based on one great playoffs in an otherwise disappointing career. Hopefully he can get something good in a sign and trade.
M
MrBiggs
Guest
BALLER4LIFE said:
I'm tired of people lumping Bonzi Wells with guys like Curry, James, and Dampier. Bonzi has always been a high intensity guy who's always turned it up in the playoffs even when he wasn't in a contract year.
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beemerr23
Guest
I agree completely, let other teams go nuts on him and then use him to get a good big man. Bonzi is a good player don't get me wrong - he's had an absolute stellar playoffs, but that's just because of the mismatches. I think we could use this year's playoffs to our advantage and let Martin run the SG position and go for a solid big mand and bench.nbrans said:
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beemerr23
Guest
If they do that's great, just know that you better get a good C and improve our bench in return.VF21 said:
[http://probasketball.about.com/od/newsrumorsopinion/a/nbafreeagents06.htm
Mario Kasun signed with a Spain team already. Carroll/Anderson have had their options exercised,
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For just FAs at our needs:
PG: Mike James/Marcus Banks/Tyronn Lue. Would have Claxton there, but he's made it clear he's gonna stay a Hornet.
PF/C: Joel Pryzbilla/Nazr Mohammed/Francisco Elson/Kelvin Cato (if he's healthy)/Melvin Ely/MBenga/Lorenzen Wright.
Swingman, if Bonzi's gone (starting, or likely not): Jumaine Jones/Rasual Butler/Matt Harpring/DeMarr Johnson/Matt Barnes/Greg Buckner/Laron Profit.
PG: Mike James/Marcus Banks/Tyronn Lue. Would have Claxton there, but he's made it clear he's gonna stay a Hornet.
PF/C: Joel Pryzbilla/Nazr Mohammed/Francisco Elson/Kelvin Cato (if he's healthy)/Melvin Ely/MBenga/Lorenzen Wright.
Swingman, if Bonzi's gone (starting, or likely not): Jumaine Jones/Rasual Butler/Matt Harpring/DeMarr Johnson/Matt Barnes/Greg Buckner/Laron Profit.
nbrans made some good points. S&T Bonzi for a big man wouldn't be that bad for this team because we have Martin who is good enough to start. However, I just want to make one thing clear to everyone is that I only want to see Brad and Bonzi to be in a trade for a big man of KG's magnitude. If that is not possible, then either trade Miller and Corliss (expiring contract) or Bonzi and Kenny (large bad contract) for a good C/PF and a decent backup point guard.
SacTownKid
Hall of Famer
Apparently some of you haven't followed Bonzi Wells career. He has been far from a disappointment on the court.
nbrans
All-Star
Padrino said:
I just don't feel like it works to overpay players, period. I don't think Philadelphia looks at Samuel Dalmebert and says, "well, at least we have a starting center." If Bonzi reverts to his career averages, which is a pretty good bet, the Kings could potentially have a 12/5/3 shaky character guy making $8 million over the next 5/6 years. Meanwhile, they're bumping up against the luxury tax threshold and they have a cap albatross where they could have had room under the cap in 2007.
I'm not trying to make this out to be an easy decision, and I really like what Bonzi did this year, I think I'm mostly trying to preemptively stick myself in front of the angry mob that will try to burn down Arco when Bonzi walks or is used in a S&T.
Padrino
All-Star
nbrans said:
you make good points, but i don't think the maloofs will have to grossly overpay bonzi. having cap room in 2007 is one thing, but is it worth it to sit there with cap room and question marks? i think there is a point at which you have to spend the extra buck for security reasons. i look at the kings bench and i see shareef abdur rahim, kevin martin, and francisco garcia. i look at the starting unit and i see potential, but most of that potential starts with artest, wells, and bibby. brad miller could easily force himself into that mix, but he has to pull his head out of his *** first, and who knows how long that will take?
i guess what i'm saying is that the kings risk taking a step backward if they let bonzi walk. they have something to build on here with an all-toughguy-wells-artest combo. after a few years of stumbling and bumbling through rotations, the kings have taken a step in the right direction and have found themselves a mismatch. why screw with it? is the 2007 free agent market so appealing that the money we don't spend on bonzi could go to a better mid-level salary player? i just don't see the upside of waiting around for another steal like wells or artest. re-sign wells, draft a young big guy with potential, and dump the bad contrats rotting on the bench. those are the first three steps, and the easiest to resolve, imo. next, you think about major trades, possibly involving brad miller.
nbrans is talking about fiscal prudence. The Kings already have three overpaid players. KT (7 millions), Brad (9.6 millions), and Bibby (12.5 millions). Unless they get rid of one of those contracts, they will not have the money to acquire the impact low post big man who can help them get over the hump.
nbrans
All-Star
Padrino said:
I think it all depends on how much. If his deal starts $6 million or lower, great. That will put the Kings low enough under the luxury tax threshold to also possibly use the MLE on a big or a backup point guard. Awesome, re-sign Bonzi. $7-$8 million I'd probably swallow the bitter pill, but I'd also listen to S&T offers and would make a major push for someone like Nene.
Over $8 million? Barring a S&T, I think I'd let him walk. Yes, it's a talent drain, it doesn't send the right message, it's a step backward etc. etc. etc. But is a 12/5/2 guy really worth $8 million a year? Even one who has proven he can step up in the playoffs? I think that over that $8 million mark it becomes a major risk. You have a 30 year old and counting perpetual malcontent (except this year) who would not have a very attractive deal to trade partners. You have more than half of your cap tied up by three guys (Bibby, Miller and Bonzi) who aren't getting any younger or any better.
And the X factor is Kevin Martin. Who knows what the Kings have in him? They could have a 10 point guy or they could have a 20 point guy. Who knows. But at the very least he's proven he can be a starter in the league and he's making $1 million the next two years. If the Kings can address their pressing concerns (post, backup PG) by letting Bonzi walk or using him in a S&T Kevin Martin makes it a less horrifying situation.
SacTownKid
Hall of Famer
In the bee today it said that the Maloofs have already talked to Bonzi's agent and told him they want him back and him to be fair with them.
Bricklayer
Don't Make Me Use The Bat
SacTownKid said:
Great news -- answers half of the question (whether we would try to get him back).
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