[Game] Bobcats-Kings - 1/4/14 - 7 p.m. PST
- Thread starter Tetsujin
- Start date
Woah. I have a q, when you were at the game was IT pissed throughout it? I think he's a leader and I give him credit for dogging the guys out, but he should take responsibility for himself sometimes. I think our entire team lacks chemistry..the only ones I can really think of are Williams and B-Mac, but that was a small sample before the Gay trade and MAYBE IT and DMC. IT is a nice trade commodity..something to keep in mind.
Iman Shumpert anyone? I remember there were trade rumors about him and I think the kings should pull the trigger. I'd have no problem with taking in STAT and his ugly contract as long as we get to relieve some of our horrible players. Shumpert, STAT, Hardaway, and Beno??? for IT, Ben, Thompson, Thornton, and Landry?
So Carmichael Dave mentioned on twitter that there are fractions in that locker room beteen players and Malone is holding it together with a sting and some bubble gum. He also said it will come out soon. Do people know who has it in for who? There WILL be trades, they just can't come around quick enough for us suffering fans.
Shumpert has talent and potential. His role this season has been so minimized that his numbers don't look terrible. You look at the games where they actually involved him in the game plan and you find that he was pretty decent. He's a good defender. STAT has been good in his limited role.. yes bad knees, but he can contribute from the bench..same with Hardaway. He's been very impressive with the limited minutes he's received. Landry is out... offensive vet with no defensive skill and long contract.. Thornton and Thompson are the players we're getting rid of... we don't need them and there's not too many ways we'll be able to move them without including IT or Ben. It does leave holes for us since our 2nd/3rd best player is gone. I doubt NY does this trade if we don't include IT. Added Ben in because we'd have too many sgs.
Carmichael Dave sits in press row. He sees things. And he knows a lot of players, having had them on his show at various times. He hears things. He isn't always right and he sometimes reverts to being "Dave from Carmichael" - the fan and not the radio personality - and just makes educated guesses.
One of the other things Dave said on Twitter tonight is that he thinks all the stuff is gonna bubble to the surface sooner rather than later.
One of the other things Dave said on Twitter tonight is that he thinks all the stuff is gonna bubble to the surface sooner rather than later.
Nope. Still a bad proposal. We suck and it makes us undervalue our pieces but remember NY sucks too. IT is a 6th man of the year type player. Landry was a 6th man of the year type candidate last year. JT is a very good 3rd big on a reasonable deal. Ben is a rookie with as much potential if not more than Shumpert. MT is crap so throw him in to whatever deal you can.
Shumpert has never been a great shooter or ball handler. He's a good defender who hasn't looked great on d all year. STAT plays limited minutes because his knees are done. Hardaway has looked nice.
Bottom line, not enough talent coming back to justify trading pieces we use that have value.
Must be Tyreke vs the rest again. That locker room cancer!
Seriously though, I strongly agree with Chubbs about IT. It's not that I think he's a cancer or anything like that .. his playing style doesn't mesh with Cousins' and as a PG his job is to keep the team intact, not yell at people when he himself gets beat every other play. Throughout the game while bringing up the ball he would be telling an obviously tired Cousins to get down court, to quickly get into the offense ... only to not even pass him the ball on the possession. People bring up Nash as a defensive comparison - well Nash was always high fiving guys, didn't really yell at them on D because he knew he was the weak link. How do you think JT would feel after that play by his POINT GUARD? It's not as if this was a one off thing - fans have noticed IT making bad defensive plays and blaming others for it. Even postgame I rarely hear him take personal responsibility for his mistakes, only for success. Again, it boils down to what IT's role on the team should be. He can be the man ala Iverson or Rose and behave this way, because well .. he'd be the man! But here he's not! He should be deferring to Cousins and Rudy. As a leader he should be keeping guys together, getting them involved and playing hard.
Seriously though, I strongly agree with Chubbs about IT. It's not that I think he's a cancer or anything like that .. his playing style doesn't mesh with Cousins' and as a PG his job is to keep the team intact, not yell at people when he himself gets beat every other play. Throughout the game while bringing up the ball he would be telling an obviously tired Cousins to get down court, to quickly get into the offense ... only to not even pass him the ball on the possession. People bring up Nash as a defensive comparison - well Nash was always high fiving guys, didn't really yell at them on D because he knew he was the weak link. How do you think JT would feel after that play by his POINT GUARD? It's not as if this was a one off thing - fans have noticed IT making bad defensive plays and blaming others for it. Even postgame I rarely hear him take personal responsibility for his mistakes, only for success. Again, it boils down to what IT's role on the team should be. He can be the man ala Iverson or Rose and behave this way, because well .. he'd be the man! But here he's not! He should be deferring to Cousins and Rudy. As a leader he should be keeping guys together, getting them involved and playing hard.
i am, indeed, in favor of "tanking" this season. the playoffs are well out of reach, and i am not convinced that this roster is even close to competing for the playoffs. the tremendously stacked 2014 draft class is then a very likely place to add a worthy piece to the puzzle without having to mortgage any assets in the process. if the kings lose enough games to put themselves in a position to draft, say, jabari parker, and then parker miraculously busts despite his motor, his competitive drive, his nba-ready body, and his nba-ready skillset, what did the kings lose, exactly, in a season that was already lost? and if parker or any other player the kings might pick near the top of the draft were to pan out according to widespread expectation and thorough scouting, well then it's rather obvious what the kings have gained through the nba's lottery system...
but people like to conflate this desire to "tank" with lofty notions of dishonorable sportsmanship. for the record, i do not actively root for the kings to lose games. i do not advocate the purposeful throwing of games. i root for the kings to win just like the rest of kf.com. however, i do consider it wise for ownership/management/coaching to consider tactics that could very well place the team at a competitive disadvantage. starting the extremely raw and mistake-prone ben mclemore is among those tactics. limiting demarcus cousins' minutes due to foul trouble is another of those tactics. upgrading talent by trading for players like derrick williams and rudy gay without addressing the team's glaring defensive needs is yet another of those tactics. playing small in the 4th quarter, when the kings need to secure key defensive rebounds, is yet another of those tactics. etc. the kings have accomplished all of the above this season. none of these tactics limit the team's effort. none of these tactics ask the team to throw a game. none of these tactics prevent the team from trying to win...
one can, of course, make the pedantic argument that such tactics do not necessarily equate to "tanking." fine, you win. personally, i could care less about such classification, as long as the kings are positioning themselves to pick well in a draft that can make a huge difference, particularly when it comes to the acquisition of two-way players. a great many posters at kf.com thought i was crazy by insinuating that the rudy gay trade, despite being a clear talent upgrade, would make the kings worse in the short term, due in no small part to the reinsertion of isaiah thomas to the starting lineup. i haven't been proved wrong yet, and i maintain that a PF/SF duo that can't help to compensate for demarcus cousins' defensive weakness, coupled with one of the most disastrously terrible defensive backcourts in the nba, is a very simple, very obvious recipe for losses, "tanking" or otherwise. unless yet another major trade occurs that corrects these issues, i don't expect to see a big shift towards the win column, and i do expect a top-5 draft pick to remain firmly a part of the conversation...
but people like to conflate this desire to "tank" with lofty notions of dishonorable sportsmanship. for the record, i do not actively root for the kings to lose games. i do not advocate the purposeful throwing of games. i root for the kings to win just like the rest of kf.com. however, i do consider it wise for ownership/management/coaching to consider tactics that could very well place the team at a competitive disadvantage. starting the extremely raw and mistake-prone ben mclemore is among those tactics. limiting demarcus cousins' minutes due to foul trouble is another of those tactics. upgrading talent by trading for players like derrick williams and rudy gay without addressing the team's glaring defensive needs is yet another of those tactics. playing small in the 4th quarter, when the kings need to secure key defensive rebounds, is yet another of those tactics. etc. the kings have accomplished all of the above this season. none of these tactics limit the team's effort. none of these tactics ask the team to throw a game. none of these tactics prevent the team from trying to win...
one can, of course, make the pedantic argument that such tactics do not necessarily equate to "tanking." fine, you win. personally, i could care less about such classification, as long as the kings are positioning themselves to pick well in a draft that can make a huge difference, particularly when it comes to the acquisition of two-way players. a great many posters at kf.com thought i was crazy by insinuating that the rudy gay trade, despite being a clear talent upgrade, would make the kings worse in the short term, due in no small part to the reinsertion of isaiah thomas to the starting lineup. i haven't been proved wrong yet, and i maintain that a PF/SF duo that can't help to compensate for demarcus cousins' defensive weakness, coupled with one of the most disastrously terrible defensive backcourts in the nba, is a very simple, very obvious recipe for losses, "tanking" or otherwise. unless yet another major trade occurs that corrects these issues, i don't expect to see a big shift towards the win column, and i do expect a top-5 draft pick to remain firmly a part of the conversation...
I'm for putting the team at a competitive disadvantage to get this pick as well but I don't think we are there post gay trade. Not many teams who will likely select top 5 can go toe to toe with heat, spurs, rockets in consecutive nights. We have been playing poorly lately but as the new players gel I personally don't expect this play to continue
in my opinion, the rudy gay trade was indicative of nothing other than upgrading talent. a follow-up trade or two before the deadline that brings back veteran defensive/rebounding talent could convince me that the front office is truly attempting to "win now," but i fully expect these kings to give up 113 to teams like the bobcats much more often than i expect them to go toe-to-toe with the heat, spurs, rockets, etc. they'll certainly have their share of competitive games (bad teams beat good teams all the time in an 82-game regular season), but this kings roster is just far too abysmal, defensively, to consistently serve up wins...
That's a poor argument and frankly not true either. On the average night in December, any team can beat any other team. Philly just won in Portland, for example. This was the argument some were using when we lost a close one to OKC. Losing is losing, and we do it MOST of the time. Every team beats teams they should lose to and vice versa.
Yeah, it was more subjective opinion unless you had some historical data on how very bad teams fare against topcompetition as opposed to semi bad teams. Philly is turning their season around the maturation of a nice young core. Bottom line is that I personally feel we have a notch more talent than teams like the bucks and cavs in the competition in the tank but would love to be wrong. We'll see