Blow It Up
- Thread starter SLAB
- Start date
Yeah those picks are what do it. A while back I went thru the playoff teams from last year and was surprised by how uniformly they were led by guys who went 1-3. Even Celtics I would think of like that but Brown and Taytum both went at 3. Luka technically was even 3. You get situations like Bron and Davis both being #1s competing on new teams, but the league is run overwhelmingly by guys who went in the first 3.
Should be noted that our last two “playoff push” teams were led by guys who went 5.
Should be noted that our last two “playoff push” teams were led by guys who went 5.
But even Memphis. Recognizing Desmond Bane as late 1st. They aren't playing Brandon Clarke for whatever reason, but he's a absolutely a good NBA player. Dillion Brooks been a a multi-year starter as a 2nd round pick. Grabbing Melton off the scrap heap from Houston and he's developed into a starting-caliber player. Investing in quality young players like Kyle Anderson (signed his deal at 25) and Tyus Jones (signed at 23).
So while they drafted and hit on their 2 and 4 pick, they've clearly recognized they have to win in the draft in order to compete with the bigger markets. Something Sac could clearly learn from.
So while they drafted and hit on their 2 and 4 pick, they've clearly recognized they have to win in the draft in order to compete with the bigger markets. Something Sac could clearly learn from.
Of course. Even if you draft a star in the top 3 you'll end up having them demand a trade in a few years if you don't put pieces around them. 2nd rounders, free agents, GLeague standouts, even late 1sts once your team is too good to pick high.
The Warriors 1st championship team was a bit of an anomaly in that their best two players were drafted #7 & #11 but part of that was hitting on a possible HOF talent in the 2nd in Draymond. But they also went on to add complimentary pieces via trades, free agency, and the draft in Iguodala, Livingston, Barnes etc.
McNair has actually shown a decent ability to acquire complimentary players so far. The issue is the Kings don't have their foundational players. I hoped Fox would take a leap and be one of them but even if he had, they'd need one more star, likely one that makes Fox a solid #2 player at least.
I think that's why a rebuild appeals more now, other than the team being terrible for the 16th season in a row. Because I think we have a competent GM for the first time since Petrie who could actually make it work.
The Warriors 1st championship team was a bit of an anomaly in that their best two players were drafted #7 & #11 but part of that was hitting on a possible HOF talent in the 2nd in Draymond. But they also went on to add complimentary pieces via trades, free agency, and the draft in Iguodala, Livingston, Barnes etc.
McNair has actually shown a decent ability to acquire complimentary players so far. The issue is the Kings don't have their foundational players. I hoped Fox would take a leap and be one of them but even if he had, they'd need one more star, likely one that makes Fox a solid #2 player at least.
I think that's why a rebuild appeals more now, other than the team being terrible for the 16th season in a row. Because I think we have a competent GM for the first time since Petrie who could actually make it work.
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Yeah. People will point to Jokic, Giannis, and Kawhi, but superstars drafted outside the top 5 (and definitely ones taken after pick 10) are big exceptions. And here's the thing. Since 2006 the Kings have only had one top 3 pick and that was Bagley.
They had one #4 pick in Tyreke Evans who was ROY and looked like a potential building block but just never developed.
They had three#5 picks. Two of them were DMC and Fox, who were good enough to try to build around but never had enough other talent to make the postseason. The third was Thomas Robinson.
You're right. It's mostly top 3 or top 5 picks that power good teams. And we can't downplay that. If the Kings had Evan Mobley instead of Davion Mitchell their future would seem a ton brighter right now.
They had one #4 pick in Tyreke Evans who was ROY and looked like a potential building block but just never developed.
They had three#5 picks. Two of them were DMC and Fox, who were good enough to try to build around but never had enough other talent to make the postseason. The third was Thomas Robinson.
You're right. It's mostly top 3 or top 5 picks that power good teams. And we can't downplay that. If the Kings had Evan Mobley instead of Davion Mitchell their future would seem a ton brighter right now.
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Then you got ****ing Vlade basically throwing away second rounders and not even prioritizing getting extra first-round picks at all in trades. He's flipped his lottery picks into multiple lower ones before, but the only time he's actually traded for a pick using a pre-existing player was Bellinelli for #22 in 2016.
Which I think is actually the last time this franchise has made any trade for first round draft capital using a veteran player.
And that's goddamn sad.
Which I think is actually the last time this franchise has made any trade for first round draft capital using a veteran player.
And that's goddamn sad.
The Hawks did a pretty good job of assembling a cohesive team. They had 4 top 10 picks from 2018 to 2020 (Young, Hunter, Reddish, & Okongwu who were taken #5, #4, #10, and #6 respectively) but Trae is the only one that you could say is a star.
But Schlenk did a good job making all the puzzle pieces fit. He also had the cap space to sign Bogdanovic, absorb Gallinari's deal and re-sign John Collins along with smaller deals for Solomon Hill and Kris Dunn. Long term they can't afford everyone but they made a great run last year and can keep enough core pieces to probably be a playoff team for years.
Schlenk was a guy that I thought the Kings might consider before they hired D'Alesandro and was definitely on my short list after PDA was fired.
Schlenk might not have been ready for the big job back in 2012 (I believe he'd only been assistant GM for the Warriors for 1 season at that point) but he's showing he would have likely been far better than Vlade.
Oh well.
But Schlenk did a good job making all the puzzle pieces fit. He also had the cap space to sign Bogdanovic, absorb Gallinari's deal and re-sign John Collins along with smaller deals for Solomon Hill and Kris Dunn. Long term they can't afford everyone but they made a great run last year and can keep enough core pieces to probably be a playoff team for years.
Schlenk was a guy that I thought the Kings might consider before they hired D'Alesandro and was definitely on my short list after PDA was fired.
Schlenk might not have been ready for the big job back in 2012 (I believe he'd only been assistant GM for the Warriors for 1 season at that point) but he's showing he would have likely been far better than Vlade.
Oh well.
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I'd trade Mitchell too, and leaning towards keeping Hali but am wondering about his value to a rebuild.
Both of those guys were picks that were meant to help the pre-existing core. Hali was meant to be a complimentary piece to Fox and Mitchell was to help with this group's woeful defensive performance the year before.
But Mitchell is a 23 year old rookie whose offense sucks all kind of butt and I don't really think he's going to end up that good of a player. Hali will probably be the same vein as Lonzo or Mikal Bridges and we need like two better prospects than him to make it worth keeping around the next cycle.
I guess just load up on as many picks and prospects as you possibly can. There are teams in contention or trying to win now that have recent lottery picks buried on their bench.
Guys like Moody, Kuminga, Bouknight, etc,
Both of those guys were picks that were meant to help the pre-existing core. Hali was meant to be a complimentary piece to Fox and Mitchell was to help with this group's woeful defensive performance the year before.
But Mitchell is a 23 year old rookie whose offense sucks all kind of butt and I don't really think he's going to end up that good of a player. Hali will probably be the same vein as Lonzo or Mikal Bridges and we need like two better prospects than him to make it worth keeping around the next cycle.
I guess just load up on as many picks and prospects as you possibly can. There are teams in contention or trying to win now that have recent lottery picks buried on their bench.
Guys like Moody, Kuminga, Bouknight, etc,
Mitchell’s offense going to the basket is just fine. He likely won’t be a volume scorer like Fox but he can be a very efficient scorer and is already scoring at a higher percentage inside than Fox. He’s a perfectly fine piece to keep around as a possible starting PG and would be great next to a star wing if we managed to draft one. Elite defenders don’t grow on trees, certainly not the ones in Sac
If we trade Fox now we can likely get good picks or young players. It’s also a move that by itself might be enough to seriously tank the season to get in that top 5 range everyone wants.
If we trade Fox now we can likely get good picks or young players. It’s also a move that by itself might be enough to seriously tank the season to get in that top 5 range everyone wants.
I don't know what the next move would be other than a major roster change. If we don't make the playoffs this year, then what? Big roster change after that? Seems like delaying the inevitable. Do we think this is a playoff team? If so, is it a playoff team that will progress into a mainstay playoff team? I don't think there is any way that the FO sees that at this point.
being a competent GM requires more than being a good drafter.
Monte has shown to be a good Drafter so far but you can’t call him great when he has failed to obtain a quality wing.
he has done poorly in pretty much all his trades to date and the roster fit has also been poor. Both of those are important parts of being a competent GM.
Monte has shown to be a good Drafter so far but you can’t call him great when he has failed to obtain a quality wing.
he has done poorly in pretty much all his trades to date and the roster fit has also been poor. Both of those are important parts of being a competent GM.
We’ll see what his learning curve is like, because being a competent drafter is huge when you’re a small market dumpster fire team. Can you imagine what McNair would do with the picks Vlade squandered? We’d be in much better shape today.
I can’t disagree about our roster construction. It’s not ideal, but McNair was left a pretty bare war chest of tradable assets by Vlade, and what competent FA wing is going to willingly come here, when the position is at a premium? Oh yeah, lemme sign in Sac and have my career destroyed…
Hopefully he can swing a Buddy trade to even things out roster wise, but Buddy isn’t doing his trade value any favors lately!
All of your McNair criticism would be perfectly valid if he was here for 3+ years. I think he needs one more offseason before we can judge fairly.
I can’t disagree about our roster construction. It’s not ideal, but McNair was left a pretty bare war chest of tradable assets by Vlade, and what competent FA wing is going to willingly come here, when the position is at a premium? Oh yeah, lemme sign in Sac and have my career destroyed…
Hopefully he can swing a Buddy trade to even things out roster wise, but Buddy isn’t doing his trade value any favors lately!
All of your McNair criticism would be perfectly valid if he was here for 3+ years. I think he needs one more offseason before we can judge fairly.
In my opinion, if you like the player, he's a good player and you feel he still has upside, it doesn't matter in the least that Mitchell is 23 years old. You have older rookies on a cheap rookie contract going into some of their prime years. You draft teenagers for the upside potential, but often need to make a difficult call on their second (BIG) contract while they are still so young and still developing. Of course, if you don't like Mitchell then that's a different story, but I don't think he's scratched the surface of what he will become (and no, I don't believe he'll ever be a superstar or all star).
It's like some of you just absolutely refuse to acknowledge what a crap-show Vlade left him: $100 mil losing core (if we kept Bogi), and basically a team that was already in their prime. No future 1st rounders, no real intriguing developmental prospects that could maybe spike and help boost the team up.
Vlade left this team in basketball purgatory. It was either blow the whole thing up (which likely ownership would never had allowed his 1st year on the job), or try to win on the fringes with no money, no good draft picks/assets. The hope here is Vivek actually lets McNair rebuild this the way he wants with his coach. If not, and we continue to try to win, my guess is McNair gets 1 year with his coach and if things still stuck in year 3, he's fire in year 4. We're left yet again in a situation where we fire the GM and a coach in year 2 of coaching deal from a previous regime. It's just a damn never ending cycle.
Vlade left this team in basketball purgatory. It was either blow the whole thing up (which likely ownership would never had allowed his 1st year on the job), or try to win on the fringes with no money, no good draft picks/assets. The hope here is Vivek actually lets McNair rebuild this the way he wants with his coach. If not, and we continue to try to win, my guess is McNair gets 1 year with his coach and if things still stuck in year 3, he's fire in year 4. We're left yet again in a situation where we fire the GM and a coach in year 2 of coaching deal from a previous regime. It's just a damn never ending cycle.
Even if he wasn't encouraged by Vivek to try to make it work with Luke or told that a few key assets (Fox) are untouchable I think he's been here 14 or 15 months? He was a late September hire if I remember correctly.
Most GMs are allowed to put their stamp on a team out of the gate, he's been extremely hamstrung by most accounts, even if Vivek is "getting better" by getting out of the way. Hopefully we'll see how creative he can be restoring some balance to the roster this year.
Most GMs are allowed to put their stamp on a team out of the gate, he's been extremely hamstrung by most accounts, even if Vivek is "getting better" by getting out of the way. Hopefully we'll see how creative he can be restoring some balance to the roster this year.
You're right, but you don't start judging years down the road, you start from day 1 but judging all things individually and then relating it back to the bigger picture is key. So far he's not truly committed to anything and so far, even when it came to correcting a failing coaching situation (1 year was enough and 1 year and some months just made the inevitable outcome more drastic time wise), he's put himself behind the 8 ball. He simply has. Obviously he gets more chances but so far, not so great I'd say. Not terrible either. C-, D+? Still passing. And no, Vlade didn't hand him an Isiah Thomas level disaster either. Vlade was somewhat smart about committing but not committing till the end of time, and when he did create a Dedmon style mess, he corrected it rather efficiently or as best he could.
It still somewhat comes back to reality, and the reality is stacking positions with lottery picks unless that involves a lot of versatility rarely works. When it comes to PG's especially you're playing with fire. The only other recent scenario where it even somewhat worked I can recall being similar is Phoenix with KJ, Kidd, and Nash. It didn't last because at some point even if it does work another team will potentially poach somebody.