Bill Simmons Suggests a Trade

wicktron

Prospect
http://twitter.com/sportsguy33/status/8549579523

CHI gets R.Allen/House expirings (2010 cap space!); SAC gets Deng + T.Allen/Scal exp's; BOS gets K.Martin, Nocioni + Hinrich. Who says no?

I like this trade for everybody involved.

Chicago gets a huge expiring to attempt to get a big name FA in the offseason.

Boston gets a bunch of complementary talent to make a run for the title.

We get proven talent in Luol Deng AND expiring contracts. Sure it doesn't solve our logjam at the 3, but Greene can play the 2, and we can attempt to parlay another trade involving either Greene, Casspi, or Garcia to get a big man.

What say you, Kings Fans?
 
Needs?
Sure we need a big man, but that can come with another move involving any Spence, JT, Kenny, and/or Greene/Casspi/Garcia

Value for Kevin?
One could argue that Deng is a better, more complete player than Kevin.
 
No way. Replace Deng with Tyrus Thomas and I would consider it. We can getter a big that serves our needs better than Deng, esecially if we give up Kevin. Deng will not help our defense, and will not add low post scoring. He's a jump shooter. Better than JT, but doesn't help in areas where we need it.
 
It's not terrible. Deng is a good player. Good defender... Good all around talent. Still young, less ball dominant than Kevin. And we lose Nocioni.


I'm on my phone, so I'm not sure what Dengs contract looks like, but without that knowledge I'd consider it.
 
Simmons is a funny guy...this is no different. It's basically institutionalized -worthy from the Kings POV. It's AWFUL.
 
It's not terrible. Deng is a good player. Good defender... Good all around talent. Still young, less ball dominant than Kevin. And we lose Nocioni.


I'm on my phone, so I'm not sure what Dengs contract looks like, but without that knowledge I'd consider it.

That's cool having your 7'1 center being your #1 deepball threat.
 
Why does Bill Simmons hate Kevin?

I'd probably do this if nothing else materialized. About the only scenario I see us losing Noc, if that is really important to us.
 
That's cool having your 7'1 center being your #1 deepball threat.

Omri, Udrih, and Garcia can't shoot???

If the reason we aren't trading Martin is because we need a 3pt threat than that's dissapointing. You can always find shooters. How did we ever manage to hit 3s when Martin was hurt?
 
No way. Replace Deng with Tyrus Thomas and I would consider it. We can getter a big that serves our needs better than Deng, esecially if we give up Kevin. Deng will not help our defense, and will not add low post scoring. He's a jump shooter. Better than JT, but doesn't help in areas where we need it.

I'm not saying I like or dislike the trade, but to be fair, here are some stats.

Deng 17.7pts, 7.3rbs, 2.1asts, 1bpg in 38.3 minutes

Thomas 8.3pts, 6.50 rebounds, 1.1 asts, 1.6 bpg in 23.4 minutes

If you we do it strictly based on a mathematical equivalent (which isn't accurate) here is what Thomas' numbers would be in 38.3 minuts

Thomas 13.5pts, 10.6rbs, 1.8asts, 2.61 bpg, 38.3 minutes

Are Deng and thomas all that different? Thomas is 1 inch taller, might get you 1 extra block a game, a couple more rebounds, less points, and less assists.

It's kind of a wash, although it shows he might be a "tad" more defensive on some nights.
 
No way. Replace Deng with Tyrus Thomas and I would consider it. We can getter a big that serves our needs better than Deng, esecially if we give up Kevin. Deng will not help our defense, and will not add low post scoring. He's a jump shooter. Better than JT, but doesn't help in areas where we need it.
WTF. TT is basically a back up PF. He's playing behind rookie who was 26th pick. I would do this trade because we get to dump Noc's contract and Deng is better all around player than Kevin. Deng's contract is a year longer, but than he's like 2 years younger than kevin.
 
Chicago doesn’t do the trade with just Tyrus Thomas leaving and not Deng. The idea from Chicago’s perspective is they can sign two max players if they move Deng and Heinrich. Mostly because there are rumors abound that James/Bosh are essentially a package deal and interest in the Bulls. Because Rose and Noah are on rookie contracts, that enables them to assemble a core of Rose, James, Bosh, and Noah – which gives James the best chance to win. Also, they could grab Bosh and Joe Johnson (who would fit great next to Rose.)
The Bulls are letting Tyrus Thomas walk at the end of the year. So you aren’t doing the Bulls any favors by including him in a deal. One, their goal is to clear cap space – so the relevant players are Deng, Henrich, and Salmons (that’s the list). Second, Thomas has proven to be a selfish player with a low basketball IQ. Thomas is not a top 3 guy on a good team. He’s a much much better young Stro Swift – with no ability to be coached or sacrifice himself for the team. Therefore, this deal won’t happen for just Thomas. The Bulls won’t do that. For the same reason, they won’t do Noah. Moreover, Deng is a better player than Thomas – he just is.
In addition, Boston doesn’t make the deal if they aren’t getting Martin. Between KG’s extension and Rasheed’s crappy deal – Boston isn’t taking on bad salary unless it’s got a lot up upside. Noc and/or Heinrich have been on the table for Boston for at least 5 months. Odd favor, they continue to pass. Taking on Martin’s deal to replace Allen would be very expensive – but is somewhat plausible.
Deng is almost as good as Martin and he fits well between Tyreke and Thompson – all three are talented and physical. It makes some sense.
The major objection here seems to be that the Kings aren’t getting a high quality big man for Kevin Martin in this deal. Frankly, no team is trading a high quality big man for an oft injured shooting guard that misses 15-20 games – where the money/length of contract is no better than a wash for other team. We know what’s out there – it’s the Delambert, Oakafor, ect bargain bin. You can get an overpaid so/so big man for Martin. Nobody is giving you a quality big man for Martin. Thus, I think the major objection here fails to acknowledge Martins’’ value, teams reluctance to trade big for small, and the money involved.
I would do this deal. Your core is Evans, Deng, Thompson – you draft the best big man on the board this year and move forward. With Caspi, Green, Garcia – you’ve got a bench / platoon at SG.
Finally, if you can get a decent PF/C in the draft – I envision a Thompson; PF/Center; and Hawes three headed monster that worked a lot like Davis; Davis; and Smits in Indy in the late 90s. All 3 guys can play/work together. With Thomson playing the role of Dale Davis and Hawes looking more and more like a more athletic Smits - but you need the third guy that plays both spots and offense and defense. As opposed to waiting for some team to gift wrap us a quality center for Martin, I think that’s how you move forward inside.
 
Whhhhhhhhhhy do would we need another ****ing small forward?????????????????????????????


I wish these guys would get their heads out of their asses before opening their mouths.
 
Chicago doesn’t do the trade with just Tyrus Thomas leaving and not Deng. The idea from Chicago’s perspective is they can sign two max players if they move Deng and Heinrich. Mostly because there are rumors abound that James/Bosh are essentially a package deal and interest in the Bulls. Because Rose and Noah are on rookie contracts, that enables them to assemble a core of Rose, James, Bosh, and Noah – which gives James the best chance to win. Also, they could grab Bosh and Joe Johnson (who would fit great next to Rose.)
The Bulls are letting Tyrus Thomas walk at the end of the year. So you aren’t doing the Bulls any favors by including him in a deal. One, their goal is to clear cap space – so the relevant players are Deng, Henrich, and Salmons (that’s the list). Second, Thomas has proven to be a selfish player with a low basketball IQ. Thomas is not a top 3 guy on a good team. He’s a much much better young Stro Swift – with no ability to be coached or sacrifice himself for the team. Therefore, this deal won’t happen for just Thomas. The Bulls won’t do that. For the same reason, they won’t do Noah. Moreover, Deng is a better player than Thomas – he just is.
In addition, Boston doesn’t make the deal if they aren’t getting Martin. Between KG’s extension and Rasheed’s crappy deal – Boston isn’t taking on bad salary unless it’s got a lot up upside. Noc and/or Heinrich have been on the table for Boston for at least 5 months. Odd favor, they continue to pass. Taking on Martin’s deal to replace Allen would be very expensive – but is somewhat plausible.
Deng is almost as good as Martin and he fits well between Tyreke and Thompson – all three are talented and physical. It makes some sense.
The major objection here seems to be that the Kings aren’t getting a high quality big man for Kevin Martin in this deal. Frankly, no team is trading a high quality big man for an oft injured shooting guard that misses 15-20 games – where the money/length of contract is no better than a wash for other team. We know what’s out there – it’s the Delambert, Oakafor, ect bargain bin. You can get an overpaid so/so big man for Martin. Nobody is giving you a quality big man for Martin. Thus, I think the major objection here fails to acknowledge Martins’’ value, teams reluctance to trade big for small, and the money involved.
I would do this deal. Your core is Evans, Deng, Thompson – you draft the best big man on the board this year and move forward. With Caspi, Green, Garcia – you’ve got a bench / platoon at SG.
Finally, if you can get a decent PF/C in the draft – I envision a Thompson; PF/Center; and Hawes three headed monster that worked a lot like Davis; Davis; and Smits in Indy in the late 90s. All 3 guys can play/work together. With Thomson playing the role of Dale Davis and Hawes looking more and more like a more athletic Smits - but you need the third guy that plays both spots and offense and defense. As opposed to waiting for some team to gift wrap us a quality center for Martin, I think that’s how you move forward inside.


My first reaction was against this trade, but after reading your post I'm warming up to it. I agree with you that no one is going to give us a quality big man for Kevin Martin. Just not going to happen, unless it's for a disgruntled big man (like the Webber for Mitch Richmond trade). If Chicago throws in their first round draft pick, then I would definitely do this deal. Then we would have two 1st round picks, and we could draft some big men to shore up our front line.
 
Chicago doesn’t do the trade with just Tyrus Thomas leaving and not Deng. The idea from Chicago’s perspective is they can sign two max players if they move Deng and Heinrich. Mostly because there are rumors abound that James/Bosh are essentially a package deal and interest in the Bulls. Because Rose and Noah are on rookie contracts, that enables them to assemble a core of Rose, James, Bosh, and Noah – which gives James the best chance to win. Also, they could grab Bosh and Joe Johnson (who would fit great next to Rose.)
The Bulls are letting Tyrus Thomas walk at the end of the year. So you aren’t doing the Bulls any favors by including him in a deal. One, their goal is to clear cap space – so the relevant players are Deng, Henrich, and Salmons (that’s the list). Second, Thomas has proven to be a selfish player with a low basketball IQ. Thomas is not a top 3 guy on a good team. He’s a much much better young Stro Swift – with no ability to be coached or sacrifice himself for the team. Therefore, this deal won’t happen for just Thomas. The Bulls won’t do that. For the same reason, they won’t do Noah. Moreover, Deng is a better player than Thomas – he just is.
In addition, Boston doesn’t make the deal if they aren’t getting Martin. Between KG’s extension and Rasheed’s crappy deal – Boston isn’t taking on bad salary unless it’s got a lot up upside. Noc and/or Heinrich have been on the table for Boston for at least 5 months. Odd favor, they continue to pass. Taking on Martin’s deal to replace Allen would be very expensive – but is somewhat plausible.
Deng is almost as good as Martin and he fits well between Tyreke and Thompson – all three are talented and physical. It makes some sense.
The major objection here seems to be that the Kings aren’t getting a high quality big man for Kevin Martin in this deal. Frankly, no team is trading a high quality big man for an oft injured shooting guard that misses 15-20 games – where the money/length of contract is no better than a wash for other team. We know what’s out there – it’s the Delambert, Oakafor, ect bargain bin. You can get an overpaid so/so big man for Martin. Nobody is giving you a quality big man for Martin. Thus, I think the major objection here fails to acknowledge Martins’’ value, teams reluctance to trade big for small, and the money involved.
I would do this deal. Your core is Evans, Deng, Thompson – you draft the best big man on the board this year and move forward. With Caspi, Green, Garcia – you’ve got a bench / platoon at SG.
Finally, if you can get a decent PF/C in the draft – I envision a Thompson; PF/Center; and Hawes three headed monster that worked a lot like Davis; Davis; and Smits in Indy in the late 90s. All 3 guys can play/work together. With Thomson playing the role of Dale Davis and Hawes looking more and more like a more athletic Smits - but you need the third guy that plays both spots and offense and defense. As opposed to waiting for some team to gift wrap us a quality center for Martin, I think that’s how you move forward inside.

I agree with just about all of this. Although of the two I think Martin is the one who's almost as good as Deng and not the other way around. Also, I think Deng is a much better fit next to Tyreke. The fact that we get to dump Noc's contract in it, would make it a pretty easy win.

The SF/SG logjam actually improves a little because we ship out two guys in Martin and Noc and bring back only one (forget Allen and Scalabrine). Deng, Casspi, and Greene replicate a lot, but some minutes can spill into Deng being a small ball 4 where he's actually quite good. Most likely at least one of them would become an extremely valuable trade asset.

To me the question is not whether this is a good trade, because I think it clearly is, but is it the best trade?
 
Thanks. Yea that's steep. Deffinetly a possible deal breaker.

We actually save 6.5 Million in 10/11 and 11/12 through this deal. It's only in 12/13 and 13/14 that we payout more, but I don't think that should be a problem.

I have always liked Deng and would love to have him on this team. He would also be a better fit with Tyreke than Martin. This would also allow us to start Garcia at his natural position (SG) and he could take over a lot of the ball handling for Tyreke. We would also help the minutes crunch by combining two players into one.

Lastly this would stop the constant revolving door at SF since we would have an established starter. So I would definitely go for it if I was Petrie.
 
I agree with just about all of this. Although of the two I think Martin is the one who's almost as good as Deng and not the other way around. Also, I think Deng is a much better fit next to Tyreke. The fact that we get to dump Noc's contract in it, would make it a pretty easy win.

The SF/SG logjam actually improves a little because we ship out two guys in Martin and Noc and bring back only one (forget Allen and Scalabrine). Deng, Casspi, and Greene replicate a lot, but some minutes can spill into Deng being a small ball 4 where he's actually quite good. Most likely at least one of them would become an extremely valuable trade asset.

To me the question is not whether this is a good trade, because I think it clearly is, but is it the best trade?
I agree with LD's and your analysis. I'd like to find a better trade, but this really is pretty decent on its own. Kenny could still be moved for a 2nd tier big that would be an improvement on our current situation, and then we could look to the draft for a permanent solution. Would Chicago throw in a pick to sweeten it? I'm not sure.
 
I agree with LD's and your analysis. I'd like to find a better trade, but this really is pretty decent on its own. Kenny could still be moved for a 2nd tier big that would be an improvement on our current situation, and then we could look to the draft for a permanent solution. Would Chicago throw in a pick to sweeten it? I'm not sure.

I look at Kenny Thomas a little differently. 9 million expiring is HUGE bargaining chip.

You need to find a seller. Someone a solid quality player, who needs to/wants to salary dump. You take advantage of them and give them the likes of Thomas, May, Armstrong, Sergio, anyone that's expriing at the end of this season.

That's VALUABLE to them. And, if you can't find that deal, don't trade him. I'm tired of making moves for average, or "2 tier" guys and settling. Why don't WE use that cap space at the end of the year for ourselves and take a shot at someoen we truly want?

And if you swing and you miss...fine...but at least you aren't stock piling a mixed bag of 2nd tier players. You have too many 2nd tier players, and you'll always be a 2nd tier team....period.
 
I didn't say we had to go after a second tier big, just that Thomas could net us Dalembert or Okafor. He won't get us Bosh or even a Jefferson.

I don't think any big name free agents will be coming to Sacramento this offseason with all the teams in major cities stockpiling expiring deals. But that's just my opinion.
 
I don't like it. I was only half heartedly on board with swapping KMart for Iggy and Iggy is far more talented than Deng. Maybe I'm looking through rose colored glasses but I beleive we have great options at the 2/3 with Omri/Donte/Cisco/Beno and they're all significantly cheaper than KMart and the wings people talk about trading KMart for.

I'm in favor of trading KMart because I beleive the guys we have behind him on the depth chart are cheaper and can provide what we need out of that spot. In other words, we don't need a $10 million plus guy at the 2/3. If we are trading KMart it needs to be for either a big or expirings +draft picks which gives us a chance at buying or drafting a big.

If you aren't getting capspace or draft picks for dealing Kevin I just don't see the purpose. He really isn't a terrible fit next to Tyreke in that he's a great shooter/scorer. He's just expensive and we have so much depth he's a little redundant.
 
So Derrick Rose, Paul Pierce, Kevin Garnett, and Rondo aren't better than or as good as Kevin Martin?

Honestly, given their age and the big dollars on their contracts, I think you can safely say that Pierce and Garnett would not be as valuable to a rebuilding Kings team as Martin. If we were gunning to win it this year, that's a different story. But I wouldn't even entertain the thought of trading Martin for Garnett or Pierce right now - we need young talent, not the last few, expensive years of fading stars.
 
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