WCS trade scenario

[twslam07]

I've been thinking up some trades with Cauley-Stein and I landed on this one:
BOS Gets: Willie Cauley-Stein & Omri Casspi
BOS Gives: Terry Rozier & Kelly Olynyk

MIA Gets: Terry Rozier, Kelly Olynyk, & Ben McLemore
MIA Gives: Goran Dragic

SAC Gets: Goran Dragic
SAC Gives: Willie Cauley-Stein, Ben McLemore, & Omri Casspi

• Boston adds an athletic big that would theoretically pairs nicely with Horford (and Stevens would probably be able to get a lot out of him). Casspi gives them a good shooting option at SF for this season.
• Miami pushes forward with the rebuild and acquires a promising young PG, a stretch big that complements Whiteside well, and McLemore who has been showing signs of life this year.
• Sacramento cashes in on some of their depth and youth to get another go-to scorer (while pushing Collison to the bench as our 6th man)

If we made this trade, I'd want us to also make this trade with Chicago:

CHI Gets: Anthony Tolliver & SAC 2017 1st Protection Lowered to Top 7 (Chicago would get the worse of the SAC/PHI 1st rounder if pick falls between 8-10)
CHI Gives: Taj Gibson

SAC Gets: Taj Gibson
SAC Gives: Anthony Tolliver & SAC 2017 1st Protection Lowered to Top 7 (Chicago would get the worse of the SAC/PHI 1st rounder if pick falls between 8-10)

We'd then have this roster:

PG - Dragic (20 min) / Collison (28 min) / Lawson
SG - Afflalo (26 min) / Dragic (12 min) / Temple (10 min) / Richardson
SF - Gay (34 min) / Temple (14 min)
PF - Gibson (28 min) / Barnes (20 min) / Labissiere
C - Cousins (34 min) / Koufos (14 min) / Papagiannis

Cousins - 34 min
Gay - 34 min
Dragic - 32 min
Collison - 28 min
Gibson - 28 min
Afflalo - 26 min
Temple - 24 min
Barnes - 20 min
Koufos - 14 min

The addition of Dragic should give us plenty of scoring and allow us to not be so reliant on Cousins & Gay each and every game. It would also give us a great 6th man option in Collison to bring the scoring behind our 3 main scorers (Cousins/Gay/Dragic). Gibson would also allow Cousins to move back to his natural position while also providing good defense at PF and spacing on offense. It would definitely be an "all-in" type of move, but I'd find it hard to believe that Joerger could not turn that roster into a playoff team.


EDIT: that starting lineup has all positive On/Off numbers right now as well:
Dragic = +5.7
Afflalo = +9.0
Gay = +23.2
Gibson = +3.6
Cousins = +12.9

 

[Section 101]

Can't do anything with the pick unless Philly agrees since it impacts them.

 

[twslam07]

Can't do anything with the pick unless Philly agrees since it impacts them.

That's incorrect.

Philly would still have the option to swap 1-10. If our pick falls in 8-10 & the Sixers finish with a better pick (closer to #1) than us , the Bulls would receive our pick. If our pick falls in 8-10 and the Sixers finish with a worse pick (closer to #30) than us, the Sixers swap their pick with our pick and then the Sixers' pick they just swapped goes to the Bulls.

 

[KingMilz]

WCS/Casspi/Ty for Portis/Grant

Grant actually reminds me of a bigger Darren Collison


WCS/Rudy/Casspi or Ben or Richardson for Ronda Hollis Jefferson/Trevor Booker/Bogdanovic (we can have both Bogdanovic's)

 

[Section 101]

Because

That's incorrect.

Philly would still have the option to swap 1-10. If our pick falls in 8-10 & the Sixers finish with a better pick (closer to #1) than us , the Bulls would receive our pick. If our pick falls in 8-10 and the Sixers finish with a worse pick (closer to #30) than us, the Sixers swap their pick with our pick and then the Sixers' pick they just swapped goes to the Bulls.

Doesn't work that way.

 

[206Fan]

That's incorrect.

Philly would still have the option to swap 1-10. If our pick falls in 8-10 & the Sixers finish with a better pick (closer to #1) than us , the Bulls would receive our pick. If our pick falls in 8-10 and the Sixers finish with a worse pick (closer to #30) than us, the Sixers swap their pick with our pick and then the Sixers' pick they just swapped goes to the Bulls.

There were rumors about the Kings trying to do a Gasol trade last season that involved lowering our pick protection...but it also started circulating that the Sixers were part of that rumor too because we needed to involve them.

As part of the Nik Stauskas trade the Sixers have the right to swap draft picks with the Kings in 2016 and 2017 as long as the Kings pick falls inside the top-10.
Because of this, the Sixers have to agree to any alterations on the protections on the pick which could impact their swap rights, essentially forcing the Kings to make this a three-team trade with Philadelphia included. http://www.phillymag.com/news/2016/02/18/report-sixers-involved-in-discussions-with-kings-and-bulls/

Dumb trade by Vlade. We can't even lower our own pick protection to the Bulls without the Sixers getting something out of the deal.

 

[kingsboi]

There were rumors about the Kings trying to do a Gasol trade last season that involved lowering our pick protection...but it also started circulating that the Sixers were part of that rumor too because we needed to involve them.


Dumb trade by Vlade. We can't even lower our own pick protection to the Bulls without the Sixers getting something out of the deal.

which is precisely why you don't include picks in a trade with that low of a protection unless you are getting a sure thing in return that will make you a winner

 

[Hoovtrain]

Because

Doesn't work that way.

Can you explain the picks and what restrictions are on what next year? I am too tired to try to figure this out. Feel free to explain it to me like a child...in fact that might actually help me

 

[206Fan]

Can you explain the picks and what restrictions are on what next year? I am too tired to try to figure this out. Feel free to explain it to me like a child...in fact that might actually help me

Chicago: They get the pick if it falls between 11-30.

Kings: They get to keep the pick if it falls anywhere between 1-10.

Sixers: If Kings end up keeping their pick(means it falls somewhere between 1-10), then the Sixers can change their 2017 1st round pick for our 2017 1st round pick.

This is why the Sixers trade could be bad. For ex, let's say the Kings get the #2 pick, and the 76ers get the #5 pick. Well, they can decide to switch draft picks with us. So we'll get their #5, and they get our #2 pick instead. This is bad for 2 reasons. A) prevents the Kings from picking #1 overall no matter what.

 

[twslam07]

Because

Doesn't work that way.

Your evidence is overwhelming. How can anyone deny this reasoning...

 

[twslam07]

There were rumors about the Kings trying to do a Gasol trade last season that involved lowering our pick protection...but it also started circulating that the Sixers were part of that rumor too because we needed to involve them.


Dumb trade by Vlade. We can't even lower our own pick protection to the Bulls without the Sixers getting something out of the deal.

We can lower the protection of the pick. However, the Bulls would get the worse pick between 76ers/Kings if we do end up in the bottom 10. It would work like this if we lowered the protection to Top 7 (right now it's at Top 10) for example...

If our pick lands 11-30, Chicago gets the pick.
If our pick lands 8-10, Philly can choose to swap their pick with ours. Whatever pick we end up with will go to Chicago.
If our pick lands 1-7, Philly can choose to swap their pick with ours. We get to keep the pick.

It's pretty simple really...

 

[Tetsujin]

Chicago: They get the pick if it falls between 11-30.

Kings: They get to keep the pick if it falls anywhere between 1-10.

Sixers: If Kings end up keeping their pick(means it falls somewhere between 1-10), then the Sixers can change their 2017 1st round pick for our 2017 1st round pick.

This is why the Sixers trade could be bad. For ex, let's say the Kings get the #2 pick, and the 76ers get the #5 pick. Well, they can decide to switch draft picks with us. So we'll get their #5, and they get our #2 pick instead. This is bad for 2 reasons. A) prevents the Kings from picking #1 overall no matter what.

To be fair, even with their improved play the Sixers are probably ending the season with a worse record than the Kings barring a Boogie trade (in which case, this season's pick doesn't end up meaning much anyways).

 

[Capt. Factorial]

We can lower the protection of the pick. However, the Bulls would get the worse pick between 76ers/Kings if we do end up in the bottom 10. It would work like this if we lowered the protection to Top 7 (right now it's at Top 10) for example...

If our pick lands 11-30, Chicago gets the pick.
If our pick lands 8-10, Philly can choose to swap their pick with ours. Whatever pick we end up with will go to Chicago.
If our pick lands 1-7, Philly can choose to swap their pick with ours. We get to keep the pick.

It's pretty simple really...

Actually, I don't see why this doesn't work. There are essentially three separate conditions put on the pick, in this order:
1) If it is 11-30, Chicago gets it.
2) If it is 1-10, Philly has a swap option.
3) If it is 8-10, Chicago gets it following Philly's swap option.
(or alternately, 3a) If it is 8-10 following Philly exercising their swap option, Chicago gets it. These are slightly different. Note that 3) and 3a) could both be included as mutually exclusive options.)

But the third condition does not in fact impinge on the second condition, which itself does not impinge on the first condition. This would be a very marginal conditional pick swap, so I don't know if Chicago would find it very valuable, but it seems legal to me.

 

[bajaden]

That's incorrect.

Philly would still have the option to swap 1-10. If our pick falls in 8-10 & the Sixers finish with a better pick (closer to #1) than us , the Bulls would receive our pick. If our pick falls in 8-10 and the Sixers finish with a worse pick (closer to #30) than us, the Sixers swap their pick with our pick and then the Sixers' pick they just swapped goes to the Bulls.

Nope, that's not how it works!

 

[Section 101]

Actually, I don't see why this doesn't work. There are essentially three separate conditions put on the pick, in this order:
1) If it is 11-30, Chicago gets it.
2) If it is 1-10, Philly has a swap option.
3) If it is 8-10, Chicago gets it following Philly's swap option.
(or alternately, 3a) If it is 8-10 following Philly exercising their swap option, Chicago gets it. These are slightly different. Note that 3) and 3a) could both be included as mutually exclusive options.)

But the third condition does not in fact impinge on the second condition, which itself does not impinge on the first condition. This would be a very marginal conditional pick swap, so I don't know if Chicago would find it very valuable, but it seems legal to me.

You cant have multiple conditions on a pick only one.

 

[KingsFanSince85]

This is bad for 2 reasons. A) prevents the Kings from picking #1 overall no matter what.

Considering the lottery history of the Kings -- especially since the ping pong ball era -- it really isn't a risk at all. The Kings are never getting #1 in a draft with an elite prospect. They never have. The best odds they've ever held netted them #4.

I for one and not worried about the draft swap. Even if fate somehow gave the Kings #1 so that Philly could then swap it, I'd still be firmly convinced the same thing wouldn't have happened without the restriction.