bibby rated 8th best point guard in the nba

kennadog

kennadog

Dog On It!
#31
#31
I still am holding my breathe about Ron. Of course I hope for the best, but I can't pretend that a few months of good behavior is a certain indicator that a lifetime of behavioral issues is will not reassert itself.

Mike shot a lot last year, yes. For a good portion of the year he carried us and had to be the scorer. He had no back-up to speak of and other teams focused their defense on him. I am very interested to see if he gets more rest this year (without the team falling apart on the floor offensively) and how he'll do under Muss.

Going to be an interesting year, no matter what. :)
 
T

Troy

Starter
#32
#32
bibbinator said:
My friend, a life-long Pacer fan, absolutely despises Artest, passionately. He says it's only a matter of time until Artest blows up and takes the team with him. No need to borrow trouble though, I say. He may have learned his lesson.
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That's true with the Pacers and I don't think it will be the Kings. Ron seems to have grown up and learned from his mistakes both in terms of reputation and missed salary.

Pacer fans are also sore for giving up Artest for nothing now since Peja signed with NO.
 
ParniValjak

ParniValjak

All-Star
#33
#33
Kings113 said:
That's what just about every Pacer fan says, it's definitely understandable because of Ron's past there. But, it's also one-dimensonal and not that realistic anymore.
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Why? Because he is a King? :rolleyes:

Fact is, Artest has been a nutjob ever since he entered the league. Even in his Chicago days he was a nutjob. Thats the reason why he got traded off to Indiana. When he got to Indy he was on his best behaviour for a while. Then things started to crumble and he almost single handedly ruined that franchise. If anyone is qualified enough to comment on Artest it is the Indiana fans and organization. They saw the good Artest turn into a bloke who went into the stands and punched up fans. They saw the good Artest in his early Indiana games turn into a player who was a smidgeon away of being kicked out of the NBA by Stern.

To say that Artest is a new man now is dangerous. I love him as a player and he has done nothing wrong in Sacramento for me to dislike him but having said that, I don't trust him as far as I could throw him. In thins case I am sleeping with one eye open. He has started off the same way in Indy as he did here. Hopefully for our sake, he has learned a lesson and truly turned the corner.
 
K

Kings113

All-Star
#34
#34
Čarolija said:
Why? Because he is a King?

Fact is, Artest has been a nutjob ever since he entered the league. Even in his Chicago days he was a nutjob. Thats the reason why he got traded off to Indiana. When he got to Indy he was on his best behaviour for a while. Then things started to crumble and he almost single handedly ruined that franchise. If anyone is qualified enough to comment on Artest it is the Indiana fans and organization. They saw the good Artest turn into a bloke who went into the stands and punched up fans. They saw the good Artest in his early Indiana games turn into a player who was a smidgeon away of being kicked out of the NBA by Stern.

To say that Artest is a new man now is dangerous. I love him as a player and he has done nothing wrong in Sacramento for me to dislike him but having said that, I don't trust him as far as I could throw him. In thins case I am sleeping with one eye open. He has started off the same way in Indy as he did here. Hopefully for our sake, he has learned a lesson and truly turned the corner.
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No, not just because he's a King. And yeah, I know about Ron's past in Chicago and Indiana. If he does something of wild-child proportions again, I'll be quite surprised.

Well, aside from what you quoted, I still stand by what else I've posted in this thread about Ron and his stability.
 
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KP

KP

Starter
#35
#35
Čarolija said:
Why? Because he is a King? :rolleyes:

Fact is, Artest has been a nutjob ever since he entered the league. Even in his Chicago days he was a nutjob. Thats the reason why he got traded off to Indiana. When he got to Indy he was on his best behaviour for a while. Then things started to crumble and he almost single handedly ruined that franchise. If anyone is qualified enough to comment on Artest it is the Indiana fans and organization. They saw the good Artest turn into a bloke who went into the stands and punched up fans. They saw the good Artest in his early Indiana games turn into a player who was a smidgeon away of being kicked out of the NBA by Stern.

To say that Artest is a new man now is dangerous. I love him as a player and he has done nothing wrong in Sacramento for me to dislike him but having said that, I don't trust him as far as I could throw him. In thins case I am sleeping with one eye open. He has started off the same way in Indy as he did here. Hopefully for our sake, he has learned a lesson and truly turned the corner.
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Man, this post is right on^. He's a great defender and a really good player but to say this guy has turned the corner(mentally) after a little less than half a season you gotta be optimistic, very optimistic... Ron=Unpredictable... as soon as you try to predict how he's going to act, you're in trouble.
 
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Entity

Entity

Hall of Famer
#37
#37
thats part of his intimidation. I want him to stay unpredictable. I don't want a year long suspension or anything, but a 3 game suspension from time to time for reminding someone he can go off is something i look foward to. Now as far as Leaders go. I have gave my assesment of that before but here it is again. These MEN are making Millions and Millions of dollars. I highly doubt they need a guy that is their peer maybe even younger at times to be their leader. They are all players on a TEAM. The coach is the leader of the team
 
Bricklayer

Bricklayer

Don't Make Me Use The Bat
#38
#38
Entity said:
thats part of his intimidation. I want him to stay unpredictable. I don't want a year long suspension or anything, but a 3 game suspension from time to time for reminding someone he can go off is something i look foward to. Now as far as Leaders go. I have gave my assesment of that before but here it is again. These MEN are making Millions and Millions of dollars. I highly doubt they need a guy that is their peer maybe even younger at times to be their leader. They are all players on a TEAM. The coach is the leader of the team
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All teams need leaders. In fact not only all teams, all human organizations. In the absence of one, a non-leader will get elevated to try to fill the role however inadequately. Its part and parcel of human socialization in any significant grouping. And its precisely int he pros where the coach as leader becomes LESS adequate, and I sometimes think people have a hard time understanding that when their own backgrounds are from younger/lower levels of sports in high school or even college where there's a clear kid/adult do as your told type relationship. In the pros, they are ALL adults (even if some do not act it), and the presumption of the somewhat older adult (normally) automaticlaly being leader no longer really applies. A coach CAN be the leader, but its far from a sure thing.
 
SoupIsGood

SoupIsGood

Bench
#41
#41
Jerryaki said:
there are shades of gray to those statements. artest was being phased out of their offense, and i think pacers management was already actively shopping him behind the scenes (referencing an espn column i read on it during the time, don't know if they archive links).

he knew what was going down and decided to strike first. didn't go about it the best way, but this isn't a clear "ron's being crazy again."

indiana wanted him out.
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Simply not true. To start the season, we were giving him the ball a lot, and he was doing a lot with it. I remember thinking that he has finally made the leap into being a 20+ ppg scorer.

In the (whopping) 16 games he played with us this season, he took 15 shots and 8 freethrows a game, averaging just under 20 points. (On awesome percentages, too.) In Sacto, he got roughly the same amount of shots. He was defintely not being phased out of the offense. He was a huge part of it, especially that NJ game where he ate Richard Jefferson for dinner.

Edit - I just want to say that the brawl, and all the crazy flagrant fouls, things like that, are not what you should be worried about when it comes to Ron's past. A lot of what happened with Ron + The Pacers got swept under the rug, thanks to Pacers management and some reporters at the local newspaper. IMO it is that stuff that made Bird/Walsh give up on him, not the crazy public stunts that you think of when you think of Ronnie.

Edit2 - Sorry bout the double post.
 
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Jerryaki

Jerryaki

Starter
#42
#42
^k, i apologize if i restated something that was inaccurate. was it the case that (or did you as a pacer fan feel that) mgmt had already given up on Ron, and that his trade demand was his reaction to that?

that was the tone i got from the article.
 
SoupIsGood

SoupIsGood

Bench
#43
#43
No, I don't think management gave up on him. Management was crazy enough to place themselves on the cover of SI with him. He effectively gave up on management.

He was not just a person who did some silly things like the brawl and such, he was a serious locker-room cancer. I hope he doesn't bring the same things to you guys... but just don't be surprised if he does. I made the mistake of getting caught up in the Ronnie hoopla, it ain't fun.
 
B

BMiller52

All-Star
#44
#44
Look at his APG in Indy and his APG in Sac... IIRC he said he liked being able to bring the ball up the floor, initiate an offense, shoot Js, drive, instead of just being mainly a post up guy.
 
Bricklayer

Bricklayer

Don't Make Me Use The Bat
#45
#45
BMiller52 said:
Look at his APG in Indy and his APG in Sac... IIRC he said he liked being able to bring the ball up the floor, initiate an offense, shoot Js, drive, instead of just being mainly a post up guy.
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That's fine. Its also of course the doing of our since departed coach. Heaven forbid Muss actually do something Ron doesn't like.

Nonetheless going nutso and abandoning your team because poor little Ronnie didn't get to handle the ball enough is completely inexcusable. Its not even like it was a new system, new coach, or new players. The whole bleeping franchise and fanbase got behind him in his return and put themselves and their future at risk by supporting him, and he bent them over the wash barrel.
 
S

Spanishfree

Guest
#46
#46
Hey, We got Artest. Im just excited to root and toot for a caliber player again. I mean, WE GOT Artest. He relishes defending centers. i cried when i read that. Ron is not crazy, or stupid, or anything other than amazing. I would bet pesos to pennys he isn't going to ruin this franchise. I dont even think he ruined Indiana's, who from Larry Bird's camp said the franchise was ruined. Last I heard they made the playoffs. Back to Bibby. I dont like him, i dont like his crew b/c they haven't provided bibby with the proper motivation to perform like his contract says he will perform. Other than that, he got game. And we cant think about replacing/trading him untill some one better comes along.
 
acisking

acisking

Bench
#47
#47
bajaden said:
As for him being the leader of this team, not going to happen. Your either a leader or you not. Artest is. And maybe he's the first leader this team has had since Valde.
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Ron might be the franchise player - but he has in no way shown himself to be a leader. Leaders lead by example - something that Ron has never done at any point in his career. As of this time, it seems ridiculous to state that Ron is anything on this team other than a very talented - but extremly volatile - player.
 
K

Kings113

All-Star
#48
#48
Ron hasn't been a leader with us? Wow, you're way off or haven't payed attention to obvious details involving leadership. They were around during countless games, after games were over, with this years summer league, and in various articles and interviews since he's gotten here. In general, Ron isn't the type who shys.
 
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LPKingsFan

LPKingsFan

All-Star
#49
#49
Agreed. It remains to be see whether Ron can singlehandedly take over the games like a superstar, but he's got it in the leadership category. Leaves it all on the court, sets a great example, etc.
 
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