Bibby Injury Could Change Everything

Kingster

Kingster

Hall of Famer
No one with half a right mind can think they will get to the playoffs now. Their best player (Artest) is out for nearly a tenth of the season. Their 2nd or 3rd best player is out for about a third of the season. They stink at rebounding. Forget about it.

So, the question is: Does that change Petrie's thinking?

Is he still on the 2-3 year "refurbish" plan? Are we going to be an old cripple, limping with SAR, Miller, Thomas, Miki and Artest? Or is he going to finally going to cut the cord?

At least with youth there is athleticism, maturation, and hope for the future. Hospice care isn't a very rewarding spectator sport.
 
Keep everyone for another 2 years and do the best we can with what we have. In two years we will have approximately 27 million coming off the books with Miller, K9 and SAR contracts ending. We could use most or all of that money to go after a really big name such as LaMarcus Aldridge who will be looking for a new, much bigger deal at the same time. He will be about 25 years old and just hitting his prime.

We could have Kmart and Aldridge on the same team, along with some young up and comers like Hawes (will only be 21 or 22 then) Garcia, Douby and Salmons (well, not young). Our new PG will be replaced with the 14-15 million that Bibby leaves when his contract ends. Who knows who we could score in the draft in the next two years.

It will take two years of patience. We may all need to find a new hobby until then.
 
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kupman said:
Keep everyone for another 2 years and do the best we can with what we have. In two years we will have approximately 27 million coming off the books with Miller, K9 and SAR contracts ending. We could use most or all of that money to go after a really big name such as LaMarcus Aldridge who will be looking for a new, much bigger deal at the same time. He will be about 25 years old and just hitting his prime.

We could have Kmart and Aldridge on the same team, along with some young up and comers like Hawes (will only be 21 or 22 then) Garcia, Douby and Salmons (well, not young). Our new PG will be replaced with the 14-15 million that Bibby leaves when his contract ends. Who knows who we could score in the draft in the next two years.

It will take two years of patience. We may all need to find a new hobby until then.
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Aldridge is gonna get paid by the blazers dude, Paul Allen has billions of dollars.
 
as long as we dont continue to waste our mle every year; waiting would be a good plan... dont resign miller, reef, thomas, bibby... but who wants to see aldrige get a rashard lewis type deal? not me... i like him but not that much...
 
Kingster said:
So, the question is: Does that change Petrie's thinking?

Is he still on the 2-3 year "refurbish" plan?
Click to expand...

That is the question, all right. It's been the question for a while. And it left me with a real conflict with regard to Bibby's replacement. We can probably get Gary Payton, and still pull out a 30+ win season, but do we even want to?

Do we, Geoff?
 
Reality check kids... this team was not going anywhere BEFORE the Bibby injury. The only thing that has changed so far is the number of losses the Kings will pick up early in the season. What will be telling is HOW GP deals with the Bibby loss. There are a few options and each one tips his hand.

Option #1. Hit the FA market and bring in the BEST availalbe PG. This would seem like a no brainer since the Kings were alllready missing a relialbe back up. But it asumes that this squad CAN aspire to greater things than the #8 play off spot and actually would work to position the Kings poorly in this years draft which would apear to be very thin. So going with option one sends the mesage that the powers that be will persist in the delusion that they can "rebuild on the fly"

Option #2. Pick up some guy on waivers give him a short term contract and keep tying to develop Douby and Green or Shakur (It seems prety clear that Green will be the keeper over Shakur) This shows some faith in what we have and some comitment to the future. The right pick up might even become an upgrade tallent wise over Douby and Green.

Option #3 Prety much play with what we have, take our lumps and see what Douby and Green can really do. Lets face it either these guys are worth keeping or they are not, so lets find out now. BUT GP only does this if he RECOGNIZES that this team is not going anywhere and 10 or so extra losses will not chacnge anything except better positioning for the lotto.

Now option number #3 does not preclude the possiblity if not likelyhood of bringing in a fossile for apearances (read Gary Payton or Doug Christie) to keep ticket sales up and bring in a wise old vet to work with the kids.

My opinions are no secret on this subject. I'd love to see GP take option #3 AND bring in Payton, or Christie to school the kids. I don't think Douby has the goods to play point but he might be able take the spot in SPESIFIC line ups... it will be good to KNOW that one way or the other. I also think Green might well have what it takes to be solid PG with an eye on defese... again it would be good to KNOW it one way or the other.
 
Excellent analysis, Celt. I'm tired of delusion so, I too, would stay away from option #1. Option #3 is an excellent choice. Not only do we get to see what the youngsters can really do, but we, the fans, can enjoy the fast pace and athleticism that some of the youngsters provide. I am long past worrying about winning or losing. I just want to enjoy watching some fun basketball.
 
GP will pick up either Gary Payton or Earl Boykins to help out until Bibby is back. Then when Bibby is back they will just back Bibby up. Earl would be ideal in the running game.
 
BMiller52 said:
Aldridge is gonna get paid by the blazers dude, Paul Allen has billions of dollars.
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The Aldridge example was just that - an example. We could try and snag another big star in 2 years. Plus, Allen may have billions, but I do not think that he wants to burn his money - especially after he was burned on the arena deal. I doubt that he will be willing to pay LA, Oden and Roy a sum 70 million+ and end-up with a payroll like the Knicks.....but I digress.

I guess my main point would be do what you can with what you have now and purchase a big time player in 2 years........I like Celts #3 as well.
 
I say pick up no one. Run point guard by committee, led by Cisco. His hustle and defense brings a lot to the table. We don't need to spend anymore money. Garcia, Douby, Greene, that is your rotation for point guard. Garcia can also share time with Salmons until Artest is back.

It's time to find out if Cisco is worth keeping. He is good on defense, and brings lots of hustle. Just not sure if he's a keeper. He maybe a nice piece to keep for the bench. Don't think he'll be a starter, just makes to many bad decisions, and tries to force things.
 
DocHolliday said:
I say pick up no one. Run point guard by committee, led by Cisco. His hustle and defense brings a lot to the table. We don't need to spend anymore money. Garcia, Douby, Greene, that is your rotation for point guard. Garcia can also share time with Salmons until Artest is back.

It's time to find out if Cisco is worth keeping. He is good on defense, and brings lots of hustle. Just not sure if he's a keeper. He maybe a nice piece to keep for the bench. Don't think he'll be a starter, just makes to many bad decisions, and tries to force things.
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I agree with you. this opens up time for Garca and Douby they get 2 months to prove that they are what you need for the future. If they don't improve or show they are capable of improving then you know where you need to go with the teams future.
 
I'm hoping we don't try and get some veteren, the kids need the experience so give it to them.

Seeing the young guys makes things so much more exciting, they will play hard and get better the more time they get so even with the losing that makes things not so bad.
 
Jechtsphere said:
I'm hoping we don't try and get some veteren, the kids need the experience so give it to them.

Seeing the young guys makes things so much more exciting, they will play hard and get better the more time they get so even with the losing that makes things not so bad.
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Thing is that in this situation Geoff has jsut about ALWAYS brought int he veteran. He is actually more responsible for any kid squishing we've had than any of the coaches. He just absolutely insists on adding that one extra veteran body to throw in the path of kid after kid after kid. You've got your Hedo? Meet Jim Jackson. You've got your Gerald? Hey let's sign Anthony Peeler. Kevin? Bonzi. Cisco? Salmons. Justin/Hawes? Mikki. Year after year after year. Sometimes they were good moves, sometimes not. But the idea of letting a kid emerge uncahllenged seems anathema to him.

Biggest hope this time is that he has already blown all his money on Mikki. Will not stop him from signign a scub of the month though. Or a 40 yr old yabbering idiot from the Bay Area. Fans love exception level vets. Ain't it obvious?
 
Bricklayer said:
Thing is that in this situation Geoff has jsut about ALWAYS brought int he veteran. He is actually more responsible for any kid squishing we've had than any of the coaches. He just absolutely insists on adding that one extra veteran body to throw in the path of kid after kid after kid. You've got your Hedo? Meet Jim Jackson. You've got your Gerald? Hey let's sign Anthony Peeler. Kevin? Bonzi. Cisco? Salmons. Justin/Hawes? Mikki. Year after year after year. Sometimes they were good moves, sometimes not. But the idea of letting a kid emerge uncahllenged seems anathema to him.
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Ack! Now I have a headache... :mad:
 
Bricklayer said:
Thing is that in this situation Geoff has jsut about ALWAYS brought int he veteran. He is actually more responsible for any kid squishing we've had than any of the coaches. He just absolutely insists on adding that one extra veteran body to throw in the path of kid after kid after kid. You've got your Hedo? Meet Jim Jackson. You've got your Gerald? Hey let's sign Anthony Peeler. Kevin? Bonzi. Cisco? Salmons. Justin/Hawes? Mikki. Year after year after year. Sometimes they were good moves, sometimes not. But the idea of letting a kid emerge uncahllenged seems anathema to him.

Biggest hope this time is that he has already blown all his money on Mikki. Will not stop him from signign a scub of the month though. Or a 40 yr old yabbering idiot from the Bay Area. Fans love exception level vets. Ain't it obvious?
Click to expand...

But at this point in time. The guy he brought in would have right now 3 days to practice. That would not be good for chemistry he would have to learn the offense, get up to speed on phisically, and by the time he gets into the flow Bibby comes back. So whats the point? You might as well go with the players that have been here for a month and know exactly what is expected. Can they pull it off? We will see. Nobody gets hurt.
 
The one postion you do NOT want to run by committee is PG (asuming we are talking traditional points here who innitate the play for the team) For consistant team play you need for evey one on the court to know their role and who is calling the shots and that takes practice and CONSISTANCY. Now one interesting innovation since we have 2 small forwards with excellent passing skills and good court vision is to have the 1 gaurd bring the ball up to the 4 then inniate action from there. But that kind of thinking outside the box is doubtfull.

Brick is correct that Petrie's MO has allways been to get a middling vet even at the expense of young tallent, and it does remain to be seen IF we have young tallent at the PG spot. But that boat may have sailed. There is no real money for a workable vet so all that is left will be decripit fossiles or waived kids that may or may not even be upgrades over what we have. In short much like a maxed out credit card prevents further beinge spending GP may have done the young gaurds a favor when he tried to screw the young forward/Centers.
 
I hope not. If he's had surgery today, then we do NOT want him to come back too quickly. The off-hand is integral to balance in shooting, so if it's not right, his shot won't be right.

It's not like we're contending for the finals or anything.
 
I'd say don't get any vet FA and let's play with what we have. This situation actually tests the team's capability of running plays without Bibby(we been planning to ship him anyway) so better try and look what the team can do without him.

On the first 7 games without Artest and Bibby, how about we play with this lineup.
PG - Douby/Green/Salmons
SG - Martin/Green/Cisco
SF - Salmons/Cisco/KT
PF - Moore/Reef/Watkins
C - Miller/Moore/Watkins

Without Artest, moving KT to SF may give us some more benefits at rebounding(with more big Watkins/Miller at PF/C). This will prevent us from overusing Salmons/Garcia switching from PG/SG/SF. This for sure will make the team slower. But with what I see in the lineup, were gonna be fielding enough perimeter defenders(Green, Salmons, Garcia) so teams should not be able run easy plays against us at the perimeter. Except that we have slow bigs(Miller/Reef) but with mix of Watkins(hopefully Justin) and Moore we can at least add one quicker big for transition defense.

Martin and Miller (and maybe Reef) should carry the offense with both Artest and Bibby out.

Once Artest is back, things should be more stable(since we can have another GO TO guy). In the absence of Bibby, I think Salmons should be able to bring the ball up, if Green/Douby isn't capable enough. :D
 
Entity said:
VF you are going to have to Mark my words for the 2nd time today here they are. Bibby will be back in 2007.
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Sure, he might be back in December. That doesn't mean that he'll be able to shoot though. Dejavu all over again. At this point it wouldn't surprise me if they/him rush back - again - he gets hit on that hand - again, and again, and again. And, he'll be lousy - again.
 
We should just go with what we have, like someone else said either the kids can or they can't and this is the perfect situation to find that out. Let Greene, Douby, and Shakur fight it out for the PG minutes and by the time Bibby comes back we should all have a pretty good idea if any of them are the long term answer as either starters or backups. There should be absolutely no pressure or expectations to make the playoffs now, at least I really hope the powers that be can finally come to that realization.

This injury sure makes waiting for Bibby to "raise his trade value" seem like another very stupid idea.
 
jimbodan said:
We should just go with what we have, like someone else said either the kids can or they can't and this is the perfect situation to find that out. Let Greene, Douby, and Shakur fight it out for the PG minutes and by the time Bibby comes back we should all have a pretty good idea if any of them are the long term answer as either starters or backups. There should be absolutely no pressure or expectations to make the playoffs now, at least I really hope the powers that be can finally come to that realization.
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Completely agree.
But from what I saw in the preseason, I would send Shakur to the development league to find his shot. Give the point guard position to Green and Douby and see how they respond.
IMHO, Douby's playmaking is very weak, but his ball handling shows potential. What a great opportunity we have here for these two guys!
Let's just hope Geoff can accept this approach, which is not to say we can't make the playoffs, but it is to say we believe in these guys and we know they will get better.
However, if Aaron Brooks gets released by Houston, I would want Geoff to pick him up and make room on the bench for him. I wouldn't expect him to help right away, but he's got potential to be the starting PG in a couple of years.
 
I'm all for letting young guys develop, but, if you talking about the pt position, there's no one on this team that going to develop into a pt of the future. And, so whats the point. Bringing in an experienced pt at this time isn't going to hinder the growth of anyone on this team, and, if Petrie can pull of a trade for a Brooks or someone of similiar ilk, then maybe we would have the beginning of a new look for the futrue.
 
Yeah, as much as like bibby i just dont want them to rush him back and i dont want him to be stubborn and force a comeback either. Remember the second game of last season when bibby had a similar injury and he had 11 turnovers against chicago? Do we really want to see that again?
 
I completely agree, this is the perfect chance to see what our young guys can do. There really is no reason at this point to bring in a guy like Payton or Boykins, Payton is too old and Douby will be better than Boykins anyway. There is also no reason to bring in some journeyman PG because we already have that in Greene. There are only two outside moves I would be happy with.

1. Trade for or sign Aaron Brooks from Houston if he's released. I doubt he'll be released though, this guy has serious game and he'll be a quality starter in this league at some point. In fact I remember Petrie was trying to acquire another pick in the last draft to take him so you know he likes him and would be happy to get him now.

2. Sign Doug Christie. I know this will get some flack but even though he has primarily played SG he is a fantastic ballhandler, passer, and creator. He would definitely be a calming presence for our young guys and will put some fans back in the stands.
 
Brooks is not being released. The only thing I can attribute that to is Amick all of a sudden going Sam Smith on us and writing articles about what he would wish will happen, not what will. Houston is rumored to be releasing John Lucas (scrub), Jackie Butler (INTERESTING -- he is a big center who was rumored to be one ofth epices we were trying to get back in the aborted Bibby trade thsi summer), Bobby Sura (essentially retired due to injury), and then they will have to release ONE more guy. I think they still have Novak, and I think Landry around as well. One of those guys will be the victim. Not their own #1 draft pick signed to a guaranteed deal. I mean, come on.

The player coming out of Houston most in danger of making an appearance at Arco might be none other than Steve Francis. Stevie screwed up this summer, blew off teams with real need (and money) to return to Houston, only to find that Rick Adelman has no place for a selfish fool at PG. He might be entierly out of the rotation, and is already grumbling about "something having to be done". Well, its not inconceivable that that something could be just releasing a potential cancer for them out onto the open market again. Clips might call once more, but they may also have moved on with Knight and Dickau. We have no money, but do have an obvious hole which might attract him. After Payton (wanting to come home and use us as a retirement home) and Boykins (still looking for money), Francis might be the biggest name who could hit the market.
 
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