Best way to make kings more defensive???

Best way to make kings a defensive minded team???

  • Fire Rick Adelman; hire a defensive minded coach

    Votes: 21 21.0%
  • Add Defensive Roll Players (like Seattle did); but keep core (Bibby, Peja, Miller intact)

    Votes: 62 62.0%
  • Trade for a Defensive Stud; (i.e. Peja for Artest)

    Votes: 30 30.0%
  • Blow the whole team up and start the rebuilding process with defensive players

    Votes: 8 8.0%

  • Total voters
    100

Bricklayer

Don't Make Me Use The Bat
#31
They can score, but people really have to watch the playoffs even when the Kings aren't involved. They can NOT score in the ways you have to be able to when the games get rough, tough, slowdown etc. Tough inside play is what matters when it matters. Shooting is nice, especially from your role players. But playoff games, particularly late games deep in the playoffs, are won by inside play. History is littered with softie shooting/run and gun teams that looked all kinds of pretty in the regular season and then got chewed up and spit out when it mattered.


We need a post player. We need one or more passers who make the game easier for everybody else on the floor. Those two elements alone are more important than having all of the softie shooters in the world. Shooting is a complimentary skill that can separate two teams equally matched on the inside, but its not a primary championship skill that's going to beat a team by itself. And without those other players (post players, creative players) creating easy opportunities for the shooters, the shooting WILL go away for you when it matters. We will run into San Antonio, or Detroit, or even a lesser defensive team. It will be the playoffs. They will get tough. They will squeeze us. Pummel us in the middle. And the open looks will evaporate. Guaranteed. And then next offseason will be sitting here having the same conversations mystified that somehow having the world's greatest H.O.R.S.E. team doesn't translate into victory in the rough and tumble world of professional sports played at the highest level.
 
#33
Bricklayer said:
Hell, he probably DESERVED that strangling from Spree he was such a notorious jerk. .
That's assault brotha. NO COACH deserves to ever be strangled. Coaches should never be disrespected like that.

Sure, we did lose alot of our personel this past 2-3 seasons and that is a huge reason. But, I'm saying, our players should learn to play D with a passion. I think our team could have played twice as better defense with that squad against the Sonics. Now I rather have Phil or LB in a second. But my reason for PJ is because he's been out for 3 years. and under those 3 years he had the best damn tutoring, of DEF and Discipline, anyone can have under coach Popa. And I'm sure by watching Pop, he's learned alot and matured.
 
#34
Ah, the quick fix. The ONE move that will restore order and re-make this team into one that can contend again. If only it were really that simple. It's going to take a combination of things, not the least of which is LUCK to make this team over. Petrie will have to realy earn that rep this off season.
 

Bricklayer

Don't Make Me Use The Bat
#35
stevetaebo said:
That's assault brotha. NO COACH deserves to ever be strangled. Coaches should never be disrespected like that.

Sure, we did lose alot of our personel this past 2-3 seasons and that is a huge reason. But, I'm saying, our players should learn to play D with a passion. I think our team could have played twice as better defense with that squad against the Sonics. Now I rather have Phil or LB in a second. But my reason for PJ is because he's been out for 3 years. and under those 3 years he had the best damn tutoring, of DEF and Discipline, anyone can have under coach Popa. And I'm sure by watching Pop, he's learned alot and matured.
He's 50 or whatever, and has been coaching for 25 years. And now a couple of years on the San Antonio bench is susposed to cause him to renounce/rethink his entire philosophy? Doubtful.

As for coaches, they are just people. And just like people, some of them deserve to be strangled. :p Now I don't actually advocate the actual act itself ;) , but hey, we all know a lot of people and lot of coaches out there who deliver a pop right to the nose whether they actually get it or not. I threatened to kill my offensive coordinator back in high school. Not one of my smarter moments and almost got me kicked off the team, but if I had actually done it there probably would have been a few "Bricklayer for President" buttons worn around campus. He was an arrogant, abusive jerk, coach or not.
 
#36
I think the Kings need a defensive minded coach. I mean look at the guys from Detroit, Rip Hamilton is skinny somewhat smallish player but plays decent defense on the team's defensive rotations, not to mention Billups who before Detroit is all offense. But with a defensive minded coach in Larry Brown they are part of the Detroit's line-up as a top defensive team. Looking at the Spurs, just look at Tony Parker and Ginobili. Euro guys but are able to play decent defense under GregP. Add ofcourse a big man that can rebound and block shots and you have more or less a championship caliber/contending team.
 
#37
I think the ideal scenario would be surrounding a core of Bibby and Miller with three athletic defensive players. Whether Cuttino re-signs with you guys or not, I think the SG position is in good shape with Kevin Martin. (If it's true the position will be handed over to him next year) IMO, that leaves you in need of a SF who plays kick-*** defense, and a well-rounded PF, preferably with potential to be great.

The first thing the Kings should do is call up Mark Cuban, and try to set up some sort of package that essentially results in Peja-for-Josh Howard. While I don't think Cuban would do it, his moves aren't exactly the most logical most of the time.

If that falls through, I would float Peja for Bobby Simmons and Chris Wilcox. If they can't get Simmons to return, the Clippers will be desperate for a shooter.

I also think the Kings should look into a sign-and-traded Mobley for Nene and filler.

Those moves would probably be the closest thing to a one-year team philopsophy turnaround there is, although a coaching change would probably be needed, someone who could help the young guys realize their defensive potential.
 
#39
Bricklayer said:
They can score, but people really have to watch the playoffs even when the Kings aren't involved. They can NOT score in the ways you have to be able to when the games get rough, tough, slowdown etc. Tough inside play is what matters when it matters. Shooting is nice, especially from your role players. But playoff games, particularly late games deep in the playoffs, are won by inside play. History is littered with softie shooting/run and gun teams that looked all kinds of pretty in the regular season and then got chewed up and spit out when it mattered.


We need a post player. We need one or more passers who make the game easier for everybody else on the floor. Those two elements alone are more important than having all of the softie shooters in the world. Shooting is a complimentary skill that can separate two teams equally matched on the inside, but its not a primary championship skill that's going to beat a team by itself. And without those other players (post players, creative players) creating easy opportunities for the shooters, the shooting WILL go away for you when it matters. We will run into San Antonio, or Detroit, or even a lesser defensive team. It will be the playoffs. They will get tough. They will squeeze us. Pummel us in the middle. And the open looks will evaporate. Guaranteed. And then next offseason will be sitting here having the same conversations mystified that somehow having the world's greatest H.O.R.S.E. team doesn't translate into victory in the rough and tumble world of professional sports played at the highest level.
Very spot on assessment, Brick.
 
#40
Definitely need to move one of the alleged "core" for a defensive captain. A guy like Artest would make sense. Petrie is pissing in the wind if he thinks this "core" is ever going to win anything significant. Year in and year out the team with the best defense wins in this league. Name the last time one of the top defensive teams in the league did not win the title. And if you say Showtime Lakers you are wrong again. Those teams had some SERIOUS defensive competitors that played hard.

I find teams like the Spurs and Pistons to be highly exciting. There's nothing like watching a team systematically dismantle its opponent in crunch time. To see basketball played that fluidly and that efficiently, and watch 5 guys play seamless, intense defense is beautiful. But perhaps that is just the coach in me. It's like watching the Patriots.
 
#41
Bricklayer said:
And then next offseason will be sitting here having the same conversations mystified that somehow having the world's greatest H.O.R.S.E. team doesn't translate into victory in the rough and tumble world of professional sports played at the highest level.
why can't there be professional H.O.R.S.E. on ESPN?!?!?! then we can cheer for a winner!!!
 
#45
I checked them all. Fact is your core players, Miller, Peja, Biiby, are all subpar defenders. At very most a good defensive team can tolerate one subpar defender starting and even that is a stretch depending on how subpar the player is.
 
#46
rexb_kings said:
I think the Kings need a defensive minded coach. I mean look at the guys from Detroit, Rip Hamilton is skinny somewhat smallish player but plays decent defense on the team's defensive rotations, not to mention Billups who before Detroit is all offense. But with a defensive minded coach in Larry Brown they are part of the Detroit's line-up as a top defensive team. Looking at the Spurs, just look at Tony Parker and Ginobili. Euro guys but are able to play decent defense under GregP. Add ofcourse a big man that can rebound and block shots and you have more or less a championship caliber/contending team.
i agree, if Manu played on any other team, coaches would have wanted to use his athletism for scoring and he wouldn't have been the great defenisve player he is now. It's coaching that can teach softees such as Rip and Larry Hughes into tough D players.

Even if Adelman is preaching defense, I think players are just take it as being routine and aren't as psyched up to play defense. Possibly time for new blood if we can get a very respectiable coach in here.
 

VF21

Super Moderator Emeritus
SME
#47
Got any "very respectable coach" in mind?

It's easy to talk about replacing Adelman. Actually finding someone who could do a better job - bottom line - than he has done, especially considering the plague of injuries we've incurred ISN'T as easy.

Manu didn't just learn his defense from Pop, by the way. He did pretty well on the Argentina national team in that regard...
 
#48
VF21 said:
Got any "very respectable coach" in mind?

It's easy to talk about replacing Adelman. Actually finding someone who could do a better job - bottom line - than he has done, especially considering the plague of injuries we've incurred ISN'T as easy.

Manu didn't just learn his defense from Pop, by the way. He did pretty well on the Argentina national team in that regard...
actually a really , really good defensive minded coach just got hired by the cavs....mike brown will be a star one day...probably not at cleveland...but soon thereafter...shame the kings couldnt have got him...might have been a match made in heaven, believe it or not...
 
#49
foretaz said:
actually a really , really good defensive minded coach just got hired by the cavs....mike brown will be a star one day...probably not at cleveland...but soon thereafter...shame the kings couldnt have got him...might have been a match made in heaven, believe it or not...

I don't think we need a coach that will be a star one day when we have a coach that has proven himself to among the elite right now. We have enough to worry about with players who "may be a star one day," without adding a coach to the list.

Of the available coaches, I do not think there is anyone that would be enough of an improvement to justify a change. Unfortuantely, coaches are the easiest component to replace, so I will not be surprised if he is not on the sideline come next season.
 
T

thesanityannex

Guest
#51
As I've said before, defense is overrated, just score more than the other team. "wink"
 
#52
thesanityannex said:
As I've said before, defense is overrated, just score more than the other team. "wink"
Exactly... people make it so complicated.

How to win a game: Put your basketball in the opponents hoop more times than they put it in yours.
 

VF21

Super Moderator Emeritus
SME
#54
foretaz said:
actually a really , really good defensive minded coach just got hired by the cavs....mike brown will be a star one day...probably not at cleveland...but soon thereafter...shame the kings couldnt have got him...might have been a match made in heaven, believe it or not...
I think it's just about a certainty the Kings will be getting a new coach sooner than later. And I also think it's close to a certainty that it will be someone who doesn't have previous NBA head coach experience because if we don't get it all done this year - and I have little reason to make that big of a leap of faith at this point in time - that the Maloofs will demand a total and complete retooling from top to bottom. And, all things considered, I won't blame them. I just don't look forward to it - It's the slide that is so hard to take. Once you hit bottom and start the upward progression, then it's back to being something you can cheer for and look forward to. Right now, we're just in basketball purgatory...and it sucks.
 
#56
Folsom Al said:
It's interesting that you'd say that ....

Watching Detroit and San Antonio IN THE PAST ... and in comparison to Dallas, Phoenix, Seattle and yes - Sacramento .... boring ball was the term used in classifying their style.

I could be OUTTA MY MIND, but as I watched these two team this past season, although the scores are low, the games are intense ... because of the defense being played, all possessions are important and treated as such. It's not like there are a ton of turnovers or they walk the ball up the court on each possession .... they are playing intense ball !!!

I agree...
IF boring Basketball brings you a championship, then dammit bring me a boring TEAM.....
 
#57
Sorry, the way the question was worded there can be NO OTHER ANSWER than blowing up the team and starting over with a new SET of defensive-minded players. A new coach does nothing for our defensively-challenged core. Adding ROLE players to this core will not turn the trick. One D-stud will help a bunch but is not enough.

Now, add some TOP NOTCH defensive players at the 2 and 4/5, like, gimme a Bowen and Big Ben, both fairly inept offensive players but fine defensive stalwarts, and I'll believe that we can become truly defensive-minded in very short order.

Any other way, which is likely to happen, will be a PROCESS.

And NOT a short-term one either.