Ben Wallace to Bulls...

[Bricklayer]

Why is everyone so ga-ga la dee da-da over Tyson Chandler....just b/c he possesses a few skillz we lack along the front-line...a block here and there is great but how many times will you have to watch the perfect drive and dish by Bibby or Ron to Chandler only to watch him bobble it out of bounds OR miss an easy put in.....

Fundametally flawed players really limit what u can do as a team....if he was so special the Bulls would not want to unload him....and fans would not be hankering to ship him out either....Tyson Chandler is a marginally better player than Kwame Brown....

Did the Lakers light the league on fire with Kwane Brown???

Not quite.

The good news is Geoff Petrie shares my sentiments....based on his history of personnel moves....he has NO ZERO ZILCH NADA interest in Tyson Chandler....so if you want Chandler in a Kings jersey, you might just want to check into a room at the reality inn.

Yes, fundamentally flawed players like Ben Wallace, Bruce Bowen, Dennis Rodamn etc. etc. sure do limit what you can do as a team. Its terrible.

And BTW, to the degree that Geoff Petrie does NOT have an interest in players lie that, it may help explian nearly 20 years of GMing wihtout a ring.

 

[Kings113]

Indeed... that's why we need to get defense and athleticism in our weak, medicore front-court right now.

 

[BMiller52]

Not even in the same league as a guy like Chandler in those areas, and its only going to get worse. Heck in 10min less per game last year Chandler STILL beat Brad as a rebunder/shotblocker etc. And now in a new system which cannot possibly be as well suited to Brad's unorthodox "big man" game, the strengths get even less well used. Chandler is not Big Ben, not yet (remmeber it took Ben a few years to blossom too), but claim's of Brad's superiority based on...well, his ability to hit a jumper basically raises the question is Brad really supposed to be better than Big Ben too? Badly outscores and passes him as well.

And you still didn't explain why Brad can't return to the 03-04 form.

 

[GoGoGadget]

Why is everyone so ga-ga la dee da-da over Tyson Chandler....just b/c he possesses a few skillz we lack along the front-line...a block here and there is great but how many times will you have to watch the perfect drive and dish by Bibby or Ron to Chandler only to watch him bobble it out of bounds OR miss an easy put in.....

You answered your own question.

Fundametally flawed players really limit what u can do as a team....if he was so special the Bulls would not want to unload him....and fans would not be hankering to ship him out either....Tyson Chandler is a marginally better player than Kwame Brown....

Did the Lakers light the league on fire with Kwane Brown???

Not quite.

Stocking up on multiple players that possess the same qualities REALLY limits what you can do as a team. Sometimes it's less about having the better player, and more about having the player that's better for you. Reality of the situation is that Brad's a softie who's just getting softer and we need something else.

The good news is Geoff Petrie shares my sentiments....based on his history of personnel moves....he has NO ZERO ZILCH NADA interest in Tyson Chandler....so if you want Chandler in a Kings jersey, you might just want to check into a room at the reality inn.

You're very right about Petrie's history. Hopefully he's looking at what this team had in terms of rebounding/shot blocking when it was at it's very best and remembering that he put that team together, too.

 

[GoGoGadget]

And you still didn't explain why Brad can't return to the 03-04 form.

The areas in which Brad has dropped off are not ones that usually improve with age, firstly.

Secondly, I don't know that his 03-04 form is really THAT spectacular that it wouldn't be better to look elsewhere even if he were able to turn back the clock. Brad was once a slightly nastier version of what he is now, but unless I'm forgetting something, he's never been that beast we need.

And, make no bones about it, if this team is ever going to get serious about winning it all, we absolutely need a beast in the middle.

 

[Kings113]

And you still didn't explain why Brad can't return to the 03-04 form.

No, I'm not Brick...

But think he likely won't due to age and past injuries. I think coming off the bench or in a lesser role would be good for him so he wouldn't have to do much and have less pressure on him. Then he could maybe hustle and be tough again.

If he stays, I want a defensive PF next to him or it's not gonna be good. Or, the above . Even with getting a new back-up C, that's not near enough what we need.

Honestly, I don't think it's worth waiting for him to return to his 03-04-self. Who knows how effective he'd be now like that, and how much he'd do that?

I think we need to revise the front-court and get him out, or get a couple defensive bigs around him and SAR. Preference to the former.

 

[BMiller52]

You guys are forgetting his game was never based on athleticism anyway. It was based on effort and rebounding(which he was never really that great at in the first place, but he was decent). What happens after Adelman coaches him for more than one season? He sucks at those. Adelman is much less demanding than Eric Musselman and that is a fact. He was a good defender because he gave hard fouls and tried harder. You think that age is going to stop him from giving hard fouls or putting in more effort than he did last season?

 

[Jerryaki]

yes. well, i think so, anyway. it's hard to turn back three years of mental conditioning.

 

[Kings113]

You guys are forgetting his game was never based on athleticism anyway. It was based on effort and rebounding(which he was never really that great at in the first place, but he was decent). What happens after Adelman coaches him for more than one season? He sucks at those. Adelman is much less demanding than Eric Musselman and that is a fact. He was a good defender because he gave hard fouls and tried harder. You think that age is going to stop him from giving hard fouls or putting in more effort than he did last season?

I mentioned effort, and he's been inconsistent there.

And the injuries he's had. I've already said how I feel on keeping Brad around to see if he gets back to his old 03-04 self, or the Brad of last season.

 

[GoGoGadget]

You think that age is going to stop him from giving hard fouls or putting in more effort than he did last season?

Yep.

We're not talking about a rookie, here. Find it hard to believe that someone Brad's age would need a coach to tell him to work hard. And, more importantly, I find it disconcerting if that's actually the case.

Coach's aim is to tell Brad what to do and when to do it, not to ask him to work hard. Effort/motivation is either there, or it's not. And, if it's not there at 30, doubtful it's going to get there.

 

[Mr. S£im Citrus]

And you still didn't explain why Brad can't return to the 03-04 form.

I don't know if he did, but I sure as hell did. I made this comment last week, and I stand by it one hundred percent: Brad Miller will never be as good as he was playing alongside Vlade Divac, because he was never that good to begin with. I don't think that it's a coincidence that the only time in Miller's career that he's put up anything close to the numbers he did in the seventy games he played alongside Divac were the fifty-six games he played alongside Chris Webber. So, unless you've been holding out on another one of those, I wouldn't hold your breath about Miller suddenly playing like that again.

Miller's career rebounding and shot-blocking numbers make one thing abundantly clear: his performance was a by-product of the system, and the teammates he played with. Divac and Webber made the game easier for him, and that enabled him to become a more effective help defender then he ever was before, and ever will be again. To paraphrase Pitino, Vlade Divac and Chris Webber ain't walkin' through that door, and Miller's not going to duplicate those numbers ever again, unless Petrie can somehow trade for Garnett or somebody.

 

[Kings113]

Good post, Slim. Agreed.

Yep.



We're not talking about a rookie, here. Find it hard to believe that someone Brad's age would need a coach to tell him to work hard. And, more importantly, I find it disconcerting if that's actually the case.

Coach's aim is to tell Brad what to do and when to do it, not to ask him to work hard. Effort/motivation is either there, or it's not. And, if it's not there at 30, doubtful it's going to get there.

Also good points...

 

[Jerryaki]

... unless Petrie can somehow trade for Garnett or somebody.

ding ding ding! there's our answer!!! you know what to do geoff; potapenko, thomas, and hart for KG. hop to it!

 

[Mr. S£im Citrus]

You guys are forgetting his game was never based on athleticism anyway. It was based on effort and rebounding(which he was never really that great at in the first place, but he was decent). What happens after Adelman coaches him for more than one season? He sucks at those.

Right... he was so decent before playing for Adelman that his career rebounding average before coming to Sacramento was 6.8 per game... Meanwhile, he averaged better than nine per in his three seasons playing for Adelman, and his worst season out of the three was, not coincidentally, the first season that he had to play without Webber or Divac.

But, why blame the player for being sorry when you can point your finger at the coach, right?

 

[VF21]

Right... he was so decent before playing for Adelman that his career rebounding average before coming to Sacramento was 6.8 per game... Meanwhile, he averaged better than nine per in his three seasons playing for Adelman, and his worst season out of the three was, not coincidentally, the first season that he had to play without Webber or Divac.

But, why blame the player for being sorry when you can point your finger at the coach, right?

Rick Adelman is also responsible for too few parking spaces at the Mall on holiday weekends AND the traffic jams on I-5, I-80 and 99 for a couple of hours before every game at Arco.

I also heard he just might have been the real reason the Alhambra Theatre was torn down.

 

[Mr. S£im Citrus]

Perhaps we should reprise the old "Blame Finley" thread with Adelman?

Ryle would have, like a thousand posts in that thread alone...

 

[VF21]

Perhaps we should reprise the old "Blame Finley" thread with Adelman?

Ryle would have, like a thousand posts in that thread alone...

I honestly believe a thread like that could actually boost Ryle's post total past mine in a matter of days.

 

[Kings113]

Not 52.... SIXTY MILLION OVER 4 YEARS...:

While the offer was first thought to be a four-year, $52 million deal, a source close to the negotiations told ESPN.com that the deal is actually for four years and $60 million, with a starting salary of nearly $14 million a year.

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=2508742

Holy crap, lol

I remember they wanted a 9-figure deal, but wow.

 

[VF21]

Holy crap is right...

 

[jacobdrj]

In the immortal words of Lewis Black:

It has gotten exponentially worse in my lifetime. I use the word exponentially because I learned it in a math class, and that's the first sentence I've ever been able to use it in. By exponentially, I mean crapier and crapier and crapier. And this year was the worse. It was brought to you by MTV. Because when I think music, I think MTV. The people who during my lifetime have done everything they can to destroy music. Because as we all know MTV is to Music as KFC is to Chicken.

This sort of sums up my day.

It started bad, and just kept getting worse (real life too, not sports or TV or anything like that), culminating with the Ben Wallace news.

I found outabout this after July 3rd, but it happened on July 3rd, so it is the last bad thing that happened to me on that day...

 

[Gary]

Wow! This just made us players for Chandler. Throw some cap relief the Bulls way and they might part company with Chandler. Williamson, Hart, Potapenko and who else do we have that are expiring after this year. This might be a blessing in disguise!

 

[Kings113]

Chandler is basically a Hornet.... just that the trade isn't announced yet.

Hopefully that rumor and guy is wrong.

 

[Gary]

Brad is WAY better then Chandler. This move is silly. 2 time all-star for an injury prone underacheiver.

Just because Brad had a rough finish to last year, the rest of his career should not be ignored.

What about moving Brad back to PF. His best year with us was when he was at the PF spot (15/10/4/1.5/all-star). Put Chandler at C, and try to move KT, and have SAR backup the 4-5 depending on the lineup situation. We are still a bit thin, but this will solve some of our rebounding/blockshots/interior defensive woes.

 

[Gary]

Chandler is basically a Hornet.... just that the trade isn't announced yet.

Hopefully that rumor and guy is wrong.

Ahhh, havent been watching sports center today. Oh well. Maybe we can get something done lol.

 

[BMiller52]

So you guys are honestly saying Chris Webber and Vlade Divac made him play better defense? I'm not just talking about the rebounding, I'm talking about how he was considered a tough defender before he came to Sac.

 

[Mr. S£im Citrus]

What about moving Brad back to PF. His best year with us was when he was at the PF spot (15/10/4/1.5/all-star). Put Chandler at C, and try to move KT, and have SAR backup the 4-5 depending on the lineup situation. We are still a bit thin, but this will solve some of our rebounding/blockshots/interior defensive woes.

Unless Chandler morphs into either Vlade Divac or Chris Webber, Miller's not going to put up those kind of numbers ever again, no matter which position he starts at. So he might as well stay at center, which is his real position, and at which he actually has an advantage on offense over a few of his opponents.

 

[Kings113]

So you guys are honestly saying Chris Webber and Vlade Divac made him play better defense? I'm not just talking about the rebounding, I'm talking about how he was considered a tough defender before he came to Sac.

I think that comes from injuries, an increased role in an offensive-minded system and an increased role in general, and age. Also having no back-up since he's been a starter.

I've already said how I feel on keeping Brad around to see if he gets back to his old 03-04 self, or the Brad of last season.

 

[Mr. S£im Citrus]

So you guys are honestly saying Chris Webber and Vlade Divac made him play better defense? I'm not just talking about the rebounding, I'm talking about how he was considered a tough defender before he came to Sac.

What tough defense? He didn't rebound, he didn't block shots, he didn't change shots, he didn't keep people out of the paint, he didn't get steals and he didn't force turnovers. Knowing how to push Shaq's buttons and not cowering in fear when he takes a weak swing at you from behind does not equal tough defense.

There are some players that make a defensive impact despite not accumulating a great deal of the traditional defensive numbers. Bruce Bowen, Jason Collins and Tayshaun Prince are examples of such players. Brad Miller is not; even guys like Adrian Griffin and Desagana Diop are much better at those defensive "intangibles" than Miller is (well Diop gets blocks, but nothing else).

Miller is not of the same caliber of player, in terms of somebody who makes a defensive impact despite not having impact numbers... and he never was. For a player like Miller, the numbers are the only reasonably accurate indication of how good a defender he is; and the numbers show that he doesn't get it done.