Basketball "enforcers" -- do you want one?

[fnordius]

If we acquired a player like Bowen, Fortson, Horry or Najera, what would your reaction be?

(You can watch a little Bowen while you think about it.)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aFvk4qHkT10

 

[VF21]

I don't think we will because that's not the type of player Petrie goes after. If we did I would be: 1) very surprised and 2) less inclined to buy tickets and attend games, especially if it were a player like Danny Fortson who is nothing more than a thug with little real basketball talent.

Bowen at least has skills and my only dislike for Horry comes from a certain three-point shot. Najera isn't even in the same category as Fortson.

A better player to ask about might, in fact, be Matt Harpring.

 

[kingsfan916]

Man i would HATE that i hate players like danny fortson and Bowen even though hes good

 

[fnordius]

A better player to ask about might, in fact, be Matt Harpring.

There are no perfect examples, I think of Fortson as 95% thug, 5% skilled player; Najera isn't so much a thug but is also not much of a player; Bowen's thuggery is slightly offset by the occasional 3, but his offensive numbers are really nothing to get excited about. Horry and Harpring both have basketball skills, and those muddy up the decision making process, because some of us might want them for other reasons than their willingness to put the hurt on other players. I wouldn't ask about Malone-Stockton or Rodman for the same reason; of course we'd take them, or any other HOFer types, regardless. I would ask about Laimbeer, but half of our posters probably don't remember him.

Naismith's original basketball rules said that if a player committed a foul with intent to cause injury, then that player would be ejected, and his team would have to play out the rest of the game 4-on-5. Naismith's emphasis on skill over physical force obviously didn't survive into the pro arena intact, but I'm wondering whether fans really want that or not.

I guess if you're unsure how to answer, you can just ask yourself whether you'd prefer, if an opposing player seemed likely to score, that we regularly prevent that by kicking, tripping, elbowing in the head, etc.

 

[Circa_1985_Fan]

I dont mind watching a player that plays aggresively, but those guys are dirty, and they way they 'enforce' could end someone's career someday. I'm all for the guys who bang down low, and do the dirty work, but to the guys that purposly try to trip up players, and push them into scoring tables...um...no.

 

[VF21]

TNaismith's original basketball rules said that if a player committed a foul with intent to cause injury, then that player would be ejected, and his team would have to play out the rest of the game 4-on-5. Naismith's emphasis on skill over physical force obviously didn't survive into the pro arena intact, but I'm wondering whether fans really want that or not.

I guess if you're unsure how to answer, you can just ask yourself whether you'd prefer, if an opposing player seemed likely to score, that we regularly prevent that by kicking, tripping, elbowing in the head, etc.

I'm not unsure how to answer, as evidenced by my answer within my post above.

I think, however, the term "enforcer" is still one that is pretty subjective. There is such a difference between Horry and Fortson that there really is very little they share in common except that they both play in the NBA.

I would take a player like Harpring or Horry but I would never willingly accept a player like Danny Fortson.

 

[kingsfan101]

If we acquired a player like Bowen, Fortson, Horry or Najera, what would your reaction be?

(You can watch a little Bowen while you think about it.)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aFvk4qHkT10

I would be disappointed.

I know lot of us feel irritated by our finesse guys, and would like someone, in the paint in particular, who could deter the opposing slashers, and stand up for some of our own guys. It has also become faishonable to criticize the ones who dislike the enforcers as weenies, and softies, while simultaneously talk nostalgic about the times when good, hard fouls were encouraged, and basketball was a man's sport.

That said, I became a fan of Kings, and by extension BB, by watching the finesse team that went to the WCF. Also, I am not against big guys who can play around the basket, be able to take some hard fouls, and give one if needed. However, if I understand correctly, you are asking if we should have guys whose primary purpose is to lay some beef on the opposing team's guys, and I wouldn't like that.

 

[Circa_1985_Fan]

I would take a player like Harpring or Horry but I would never willingly accept a player like Danny Fortson.

What's the difference in the 3?? Not much, in my mind...with the exception of Horry and Harpring having an outside shot and Fortson cant shoot water in an ocean.

 

[jdbraver]

In the NBA you need physical players. This is what makes the NBA different than European basketball. You can't tell me you wouldn't want to watch players like Oakley, Rodman, Russell, or Lambier. If you don't like physical play I would suggest you stick to the Euro ball

 

[VF21]

What's the difference in the 3?? Not much, in my mind...with the exception of Horry and Harpring having an outside shot and Fortson cant shoot water in an ocean.

Fortson = virtually NO basketball skills except thuggery. IQ of a moldy rug.

Horry = Considerable basketball IQ and skills. Frequently mentioned by numerous players as an all-around player.

Harpring = Skills and a bit of thuggery but enough IQ on and off the court to be able to walk and chew gum at the same time.

Since this is really a personal preference issue, I don't have a problem with you having a different opinion but there's certainly no right or wrong answer here.

 

[Bricklayer]

None of the above would bother me, except really Horry just because its Horry. I question the utility of a guy like Fortson however, and you would never find me making excuses for a Fortsoon or Bowen when they were cheap or dirty just because they were ours.

However Matt Harpring can play on my team any day of the week, and twice on Sundays. Hardnosed and skilled is not a combination you find often. This guy has aaveraged more points in a season (17.6ppg) than any King except Mike, Ron and Kevin (unless you count Reef as still on the team). Complaining about Harpring is like complaining about Corliss. Tough? Sure. Good thing. Going to back down? Not a chance in hell. Also good thing. Thug? Not unless you exapnd the defintion to include any player who doesn't squeal and run for mommy's skirts at the first sign of contact.

And as far as whether you want a guy like that or not on your team -- how many rings does Bowen have? Horry? Fox? Rodman? Weenies don't win...unless you acquire somebody to have their back and give them courage.

 

[fnordius]

This guy has aaveraged more points in a season (17.6ppg) than any King except Mike, Ron and Kevin (unless you count Reef as still on the team).

Which is precisely the reason he was excluded as an example for this poll.

If I could have the young and healthy Vlade Divac and Doug Christie back on our team, of course I'd do it in a heartbeat. But that's not the same as wanting players who make hand gestures to their wives, or who flop like fish.

 

[BudWright]

I just don't like thugs. Reading the quotes from Harpring in the paper, he seemed so proud of himself because he was so tough and would never back down to anyone. Wonder if he felt "so tough" when he took Kevin Martin out, after all, Kevin, with his size, is surely one he would have to worry about . What a jerk! Annie.

 

[Oscar]

I voted "other" because I thought that Artest already was the enforcer.

 

[GoGoGadget]

I voted "I'd strongly approve," but only because the poll didn't include my first reaction to the question: "Gimme! Gimme! Gimme!! NOW!!"

 

[Circa_1985_Fan]

If there was a young Anthony Mason clone in the league right now, THAT is my definition of an enforcer who I'd want on my team...or perhaps a Kurt Rambis clone. You(not speaking of anyone in particular) can have the Matt Harpring's, Bruce Bowen's and Robert Horry's of the world, thank you. There's just different definitions of an 'enforcer' in my book.

 

[Warhawk]

I dont mind watching a player that plays aggresively, but those guys are dirty, and they way they 'enforce' could end someone's career someday. I'm all for the guys who bang down low, and do the dirty work, but to the guys that purposly try to trip up players, and push them into scoring tables...um...no.

Agreed. Hustle and bang and make hard fouls - Yes. Cheap shots, kicking, clotheslines, flagrant fouls - No, thanks. There is a difference.

 

[6th]

Agreed. Hustle and bang and make hard fouls - Yes. Cheap shots, kicking, clotheslines, flagrant fouls - No, thanks. There is a difference.

That's a good way to show the difference. I think some people's idea of an enforcer is the banger. I'm perfectly okay with that type of "enforcer." I would be more than disappointed if we got an "enforcer" guilty of cheap shots. I would be downed right upset. However, I would always be a fan, even if I could not stand that player.

 

[Bricklayer]

I just don't like thugs. Reading the quotes from Harpring in the paper, he seemed so proud of himself because he was so tough and would never back down to anyone. Wonder if he felt "so tough" when he took Kevin Martin out, after all, Kevin, with his size, is surely one he would have to worry about . What a jerk! Annie.

This alleged Kevin Martin "thugging" is geting worse by the minute. If anybody actually did not watch the game what we are talking about here is a pick. Nowhere near as hard as the ones Brad sets on little PGs multiple times a season. It wasn't even terribly dirty. Nice separate the men from the boys pick but did not even put Kevin on the ground. Good for Harpring. Kevin stood up for himself. Good for Kevin. Non issue.

 

[Kori]

(You can watch a little Bowen while you think about it.)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aFvk4qHkT10

just need to comment the video...i was like wtf , u can see from the moon that this dude is playing on injuring the opponent. players like him should be kicked out of the league

 

[Mr. S£im Citrus]

Anybody who thinks that Matt Harpring is a thug doesn't know what the word "thug" means. Harpring is a skilled player: he can shoot, he rebounds well for his position, he defends, he does the little things that all successful teams need their role players to do... and he's tough as nails; I love a player who's not afraid of contact.

Some people here are entirely too enamored of "pretty" basketball... And I do not use "pretty" as a compliment...

 

[dude12]

Anybody who thinks that Matt Harpring is a thug doesn't know what the word "thug" means. Harpring is a skilled player: he can shoot, he rebounds well for his position, he defends, he does the little things that all successful teams need their role players to do... and he's tough as nails; I love a player who's not afraid of contact.

Just started reading this thread, and have to agree here with the above. If you consider Harpring as a thug, then you would have had to consider Doug Christie as the same. This isn't little league or it isn't grade school basketball.

 

[DocHolliday]

I think it's funny that we all talk about how weak our front line is and how we need someone to fill the lane, or really be strong enough to hold their own, and the majority of votes on this thread are they'd be dissapointed.

Well boo hoo, maybe the Kings organization is just a reflection of their sappy fans? Personally, what I see is people are too wrapped up with the names of enforcers that the original poster posted, losing sight of the real question.

What if you could have someone on the team that plays strong defense, didn't back down, and made sure if people drove in the lane they'd think twice about it next time after picking themselves up off the floor?

My vote for that is, ABOLUTELY. for finding a player like that.

 

[Jechtsphere]

I think people think of enforcer and the options given of those type of players are players that just go in to hard foul or get cheap shots in.

I would love to have an enforcer type guy that won't back down, when you play aggressive he plays with more aggression.

I'd love to just have a bad ***, I'm not saying someone who is brainless and just goes in there to flagrant foul everyone like a Danny Fortson but just someone tough as nails.

Not letting guys stroll down the lane and letting them get an easy layup, if they are going to go to the rim they should have to go through that guy, face the punishment of going to the rim lol

 

[Kingster]

just need to comment the video...i was like wtf , u can see from the moon that this dude is playing on injuring the opponent. players like him should be kicked out of the league

I agree. That's just BS. There is no way that those incidents are "accidents". This guy is one of the best athletes in the world. He knows exactly what he is doing.

 

[VF21]

What if you could have someone on the team that plays strong defense, didn't back down, and made sure if people drove in the lane they'd think twice about it next time after picking themselves up off the floor?

My vote for that is, ABOLUTELY. for finding a player like that.

Yes! My only proviso would be it's not someone like Danny Fortson, who not only resembles a cabbage patch kid doll but has approximately the same IQ. You can have an "enforcer" without them becoming nothing more than physical bully with no real appreciation for the game.

 

[ESP47]

Some people here are entirely too enamored of "pretty" basketball... And I do not use "pretty" as a compliment...

I agree. Basketball has become a bunch of sissys that flop and fall after every shot or layup. I wish there were more Bowen's and Fortson's in the game. In the 70's and 80's there were plenty of enforcers. Now it's hard to pick half a dozen in the league. Not only do all the meaningless fouls slow the game down and turn the players into a punch of flopping pansies, but the actual game product is less fun to watch as well.

 

[VF21]

I agree. Basketball has become a bunch of sissys that flop and fall after every shot or layup. I wish there were more Bowen's and Fortson's in the game. In the 70's and 80's there were plenty of enforcers. Now it's hard to pick half a dozen in the league. Not only do all the meaningless fouls slow the game down and turn the players into a punch of flopping pansies, but the actual game product is less fun to watch as well.

Yeah, more Bowens and Fortsons. Just what the league needs.



Sorry, but it sounds like big-time wrestling might be more to your liking if you're that enamored of physical contact outside the flow of the game.

Meaningless fouls are one thing but people like Danny Fortson do more harm to the game than all the "floppers" in the world.

Good hard legitimate fouls are one thing. Fortson and Bowen aren't out to foul someone. They're out to ruin the rest of the careers. There is NO way that should be a part of the game created by Dr. James Naismith.

 

[LPKingsFan]

Would you call Scot Pollard our "enforcer" from years past? Christie?

Never a pretty-boy "tough guy" like Ric Fox. But like the bash brothers on Mighty Ducks? Any time.

 

[dude12]

Like the Bowen's and Raja Bell's or not, but when it comes to playoff basketball, it is not for the timid. The refs swallow the whistles, it gets more physical and you had better be able to adjust. Playoff basketball in NBA = No Boys Allowed