Baja Den's way too early, worthless 2023 mock draft:

206Fan said:
Do you have a link for this? I just finished listening to the Mo and Deuce podcast and he didn't really conclude that when they asked about landing spots and growth.

But, if we do draft Kris, he'd need to be ok being the "not as good" twin because on this team, he might always be referred to as "Keegan's brother" by most media..
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he said it starting around the 32 minute mark of that interview
 
Really growing on the idea of Bates at 38 as well. There's so much slop to wade through with his game, but the shot-making potential is absolutely 100% there. He'd be a terrifying FRP, but a 2nd isn't too crazy of investment and he's a guy you go send down to the G-League next season and let him play a bunch and be a #1 option. He's absolutely a lotto ticket, but who cares? It's the second round.

I'm just not sure his ISO moves work the same way at the next level. And he wasn't like... particularly good in college either. I think he could fill a real valuable role in our system if you taught him to make quicker and faster decisions. Stop dancing around with the rock so much and just get to your move. Fox and Monk are the only 2 guys on the team right now where there's any sort of comfort level with creating something in a totally dead offensive possession. His shot release is super quick and I do think certainly qualifies as a "tough shot" maker. And certainly not shy in that "TD" mold where there's not a shot he doesn't like with just a sliver of space.

I have Phillips ahead of him, but that sort of archetype is really growing on me in this draft. A lot of guys who are super toolsy types with a good archetype but were just sort of bad in college. Walsh, Bates, Phillips. All seem like super premium 2nd round picks to take the flier on.
 
The_Jamal said:
Really growing on the idea of Bates at 38 as well. There's so much slop to wade through with his game, but the shot-making potential is absolutely 100% there. He'd be a terrifying FRP, but a 2nd isn't too crazy of investment and he's a guy you go send down to the G-League next season and let him play a bunch and be a #1 option. He's absolutely a lotto ticket, but who cares? It's the second round.

I'm just not sure his ISO moves work the same way at the next level. And he wasn't like... particularly good in college either. I think he could fill a real valuable role in our system if you taught him to make quicker and faster decisions. Stop dancing around with the rock so much and just get to your move. Fox and Monk are the only 2 guys on the team right now where there's any sort of comfort level with creating something in a totally dead offensive possession. His shot release is super quick and I do think certainly qualifies as a "tough shot" maker. And certainly not shy in that "TD" mold where there's not a shot he doesn't like with just a sliver of space.

I have Phillips ahead of him, but that sort of archetype is really growing on me in this draft. A lot of guys who are super toolsy types with a good archetype but were just sort of bad in college. Walsh, Bates, Phillips. All seem like super premium 2nd round picks to take the flier on.
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I haven’t landed on a project just yet but I really think we need to trade for Indiana’s second round pick. With 3 first rounders they probably don’t need another developmental piece. We actually do need an extra one considering we likely won’t have our pick next year and our second rounder probably won’t be very high in a fairly week draft.
 
funkykingston said:
I know it seems like a great story to send Kris to the Kings, but I don't know that it'd be a great situation for either him or the team.

Sure, there'd be a ton of comfort in playing alongside his twin (and I'm sure his family would like it) but if Kris isn't as good as Keegan then it will just highlight that fact every time he subs in for him. Not to mention, he has essentially the same strengths AND weaknesses as Keegan which doesn't really make the team any more flexible or multifaceted.
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Kris has played with Keegan for his entire life. I mean he just came out and said he wants to play with Keegan, whether it's this year or a few years down the line. I think attempting to negatively dig into the psyche of playing with his brother is going way too deep. They want to play together so I don't see any issue with that, even if Kris isn't as good...which I'm sure he knows but is working his ass off to not continue to happen. If anything it would be great for both of them because they obviously compete against each other as hard or harder than they do anyone else.

The only issue I see with the two is the lack of foot speed on the perimeter.

Last year if Keegan went to the bench and an average shooting Keegan came off the bench to back him up, would that have been the worst thing in the world?

No matter what happens, just getting a rotational player with our pick, no matter what their skills are, will be a win.
 
ESP47 said:
Kris has played with Keegan for his entire life. I mean he just came out and said he wants to play with Keegan, whether it's this year or a few years down the line. I think attempting to negatively dig into the psyche of playing with his brother is going way too deep. They want to play together so I don't see any issue with that, even if Kris isn't as good...which I'm sure he knows but is working his ass off to not continue to happen. If anything it would be great for both of them because they obviously compete against each other as hard or harder than they do anyone else.

The only issue I see with the two is the lack of foot speed on the perimeter.

Last year if Keegan went to the bench and an average shooting Keegan came off the bench to back him up, would that have been the worst thing in the world?

No matter what happens, just getting a rotational player with our pick, no matter what their skills are, will be a win.
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I wasn't attempting to psychoanalyze Kris. My post was more about the Kings roster and flexibility.

If Mike Brown sees something on the floor that isn't working and his option is to sub Keegan in for a slightly less good Keegan, it doesn't really change anything.

But if he has a more active, switchable defender in Prosper (or maybe Walsh in the 2nd round) or more isolation/three level scoring from someone like Max Lewis, or someone who can more aggressively attack the rim (possibly Dariq Whitehead) then it provides options.

I wouldn't hate Kris Murray on the team. There are definitely some big plusses to it, but I think there are other directions to go that could benefit the team more.

As for Kris himself, it's not that playing with his brother in and of itself is any negative. But if Barnes and/or Lyles are re-signed and Vezenkov comes over, Kris' role would essentially be subbing for his brother for around 10 mpg depending on matchups. He could likely get a lot more run on a different team.
 
funkykingston said:
I wasn't attempting to psychoanalyze Kris. My post was more about the Kings roster and flexibility.

If Mike Brown sees something on the floor that isn't working and his option is to sub Keegan in for a slightly less good Keegan, it doesn't really change anything.

But if he has a more active, switchable defender in Prosper (or maybe Walsh in the 2nd round) or more isolation/three level scoring from someone like Max Lewis, or someone who can more aggressively attack the rim (possibly Dariq Whitehead) then it provides options.

I wouldn't hate Kris Murray on the team. There are definitely some big plusses to it, but I think there are other directions to go that could benefit the team more.

As for Kris himself, it's not that playing with his brother in and of itself is any negative. But if Barnes and/or Lyles are re-signed and Vezenkov comes over, Kris' role would essentially be subbing for his brother for around 10 mpg depending on matchups. He could likely get a lot more run on a different team.
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What about when Keegan is playing well and he has to get subbed out for a player who is much worse? It would be nice to keep a similar level of production. Half the time I wished Keegan could have played the entire game.

I get your points with flexibility for sure. If the perfect fit was available at 24, I'd choose him over Kris but there is no perfect fit that far back in the draft. Whitehead would attack more aggressively for sure but would it just be clank after clank like we saw last season or was he held back by his injury? OMP more than likely won't be able to shoot and doesn't rebound. Max Lewis is very intriguing but more than likely won't be of any service for quite some time, or possibly ever.

I'd say the 24th pick in his rookie year getting 10mpg would be just fine. We have no idea if Vezenkov will be coming over and if he does, we have no idea if he would even be better than rookie Kris. If a wing is drafted, they'll likely just be in the same situation Kris is in if he's drafted. May the best player win.
 
Here is a MSN.com link with embedded password to Sam Vecenie's (The Athletic) 2023 NBA Draft Guide. Once you click on the link to the Draft Guide, found in the MSN article, you will be asked to input the password, which can also be found in the following MSN.com article:

Top 100 NBA Draft prospects for 2023: Final rankings, tiers and Big Board (msn.com)

Note to Mods: I assume this is legitimate as it is a MSN.com article, however, if I have been duped please delete my post. Thanks!

Mod note: We do not allow posts which enable piracy of paywalled material. However, upon further investigation in this case that does not appear to be what is happening. Here, Sam Vecenie is specifically giving out the password to his own work in an MSN article. This looks 100% on the up and up, and so we will allow it.
 
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ESP47 said:
What about when Keegan is playing well and he has to get subbed out for a player who is much worse? It would be nice to keep a similar level of production. Half the time I wished Keegan could have played the entire game.

I get your points with flexibility for sure. If the perfect fit was available at 24, I'd choose him over Kris but there is no perfect fit that far back in the draft. Whitehead would attack more aggressively for sure but would it just be clank after clank like we saw last season or was he held back by his injury? OMP more than likely won't be able to shoot and doesn't rebound. Max Lewis is very intriguing but more than likely won't be of any service for quite some time, or possibly ever.

I'd say the 24th pick in his rookie year getting 10mpg would be just fine. We have no idea if Vezenkov will be coming over and if he does, we have no idea if he would even be better than rookie Kris. If a wing is drafted, they'll likely just be in the same situation Kris is in if he's drafted. May the best player win.
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To me it depends. I think Justin Jackson is the downside. Jackson even got 20 mpg which seemed marginal. If you select a ready now player and don't carve space for them to play, you just not only wasted a pick, but you could waste someones career. 18-19 years olds can wait. 23 year olds? Nope.
 
SacTownKid said:
To me it depends. I think Justin Jackson is the downside. Jackson even got 20 mpg which seemed marginal. If you select a ready now player and don't carve space for them to play, you just not only wasted a pick, but you could waste someones career. 18-19 years olds can wait. 23 year olds? Nope.
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Jackson was a 6'8 player who thought he was a guard. He played very soft and was a flukey shooter. JJ was just too soft for the NBA. Him and Skal could've gotten NIL deals from Charmin.

I hated the JJ pick. I knew he would bust because I was never a believer in his "breakout" junior year. There are some players you look at and just know they won't cut it in the NBA. Kris is not one of those players.
 
206Fan said:
Jackson was a 6'8 player who thought he was a guard. He played very soft and was a flukey shooter. JJ was just too soft for the NBA. Him and Skal could've gotten NIL deals from Charmin.

I hated the JJ pick. I knew he would bust because I was never a believer in his "breakout" junior year. There are some players you look at and just know they won't cut it in the NBA. Kris is not one of those players.
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Yeah, but if you play someone 8-10 mpg they're one of those players mostly watching the game, not playing it. If the Kings somehow landed Beal, I think then someone like Kris moves to the top of the list if that pick isn't involved in the trade. Then he's a huge asset for a team with a hole at the F spot.
 
@DraftExpress
·
4h

Michigan's Kobe Bufkin could surprise people with how high he gets picked. Looking more and more likely that he's not getting out of the lottery on draft night, and he has a chance to hear his name called as high as 8th (Washington) or 9th (Utah), NBA teams tell me.
 
MizzouKing said:
I’ve held back out of concern for homerism, but I really think Kobe Brown is worth a good look for the Kings. Draymond-like size, strong defender, good 3-point shooter, and an excellent locker room guy.
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He's got some fans here on this forum, including me.

I was doing a depth chart yesterday for one of the trade scenarios and I was thinking "ya know what? Kobe Brown at 38 actually makes a ton of sense with this"


Honestly though I do think the Kings would probably want him to lose a few pounds and be ready for combo-forward duty. At 250 he's kind of much more oriented for that PF spot.

One of my good friends is a 6'8" PF from Missouri he was a 4-star recruit, so we've been talking about Brown all season, my buddy alllways talks about big dudes weight and we settled on 235lbs for him, he'll probably look lean and mean at that weight, n its not too far off. N he'll probably knock everyone on their heels when he slams into them still.

I am just a believer in the progress he's made with that 3pt shot too, thats what sorta solidified his chances at going in the top half of hte 2nd rd, n now its just a matter of how high, I'd actually think the Kings at 38 might be the beginning of his range..

I feel like he'd sorta be a crowd favorite cuz its just one of those things, if you havent really seen him play a lot you might be surprised at some of the things he does quite naturally, as he's just sort of one of these big dudes whos fairly nimble n skilled, which players like that have been getting drafted closer and closer to the 1st every year that passes.
 
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I mean how much better is David Roddy(23rd pick last year) than Kobe Brown? n Kobe Brown is older but he's also like 4" taller which to me, means for the Kings he actually fits better than Roddy no further questions needed..
 
So Tony Snell came out today that he's been diagnosed with Autism.... I cant help but wonder what that would've done to his draft stock if that was known, and I wonder if the NBA medical staffs had any clue when they were doing predraft evals... Not that it matters, just wondering..
 
I'm sure everyone knows that Kobe Brown is one of my favorite players in the 2nd round. I also like Julian Strawther, Keyontae Johnson, Jordan Walsh. Seth Lundy, and Landers Nolley. Some at 38 and some at 54. To a lesser degree I like Isaiah Wong, D'moi Hodge, and Jalen Slawson. This draft is loaded with talent all the way deep into the 2nd round, and I have no doubt that there will be some undrafted players that will end up having nice NBA careers.
 
SacTownKid said:
To me it depends. I think Justin Jackson is the downside. Jackson even got 20 mpg which seemed marginal. If you select a ready now player and don't carve space for them to play, you just not only wasted a pick, but you could waste someones career. 18-19 years olds can wait. 23 year olds? Nope.
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I don't think the amount of minutes a rookie plays on a young rebuilding team is quite comparable to what they're going to get on the team that just finished 3rd in the conference.

I agree that minutes should be carved out unless it's at the expense of losing a bunch of games or missing the playoffs but this squad doesn't really have a spot to pencil 20-25mpg in for the 24th pick in the draft.

They also had almost no injuries at all last year and that isn't likely to continue. Brown isn't just going to anoint the 24th pick minutes ahead of other players if that player doesn't earn them. We saw it last year with Keegan. If he was rolling, Brown kept him in there. If he was struggling, Brown benched him and coached to win the game if his replacement was playing better that night.
 
ESP47 said:
I don't think the amount of minutes a rookie plays on a young rebuilding team is quite comparable to what they're going to get on the team that just finished 3rd in the conference.

I agree that minutes should be carved out unless it's at the expense of losing a bunch of games or missing the playoffs but this squad doesn't really have a spot to pencil 20-25mpg in for the 24th pick in the draft.

They also had almost no injuries at all last year and that isn't likely to continue. Brown isn't just going to anoint the 24th pick minutes ahead of other players if that player doesn't earn them. We saw it last year with Keegan. If he was rolling, Brown kept him in there. If he was struggling, Brown benched him and coached to win the game if his replacement was playing better that night.
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I agree. That's why if they are keeping that pick it's likely better used on a player that can develop until the time comes to get those minutes. Taking a player that is developed, or ready to help and putting them in the KZ Okpala spot means they're just depth. Being depth for a player of that age puts them in a very rough career bind where they'll likely struggle to hang on in the league after that first contract. It happens every year and for a bunch of years the Kings were so responsible for that type of situation it's likely what kept them from getting workouts with almost every prospect, haha.
 
SacTownKid said:
I agree. That's why if they are keeping that pick it's likely better used on a player that can develop until the time comes to get those minutes. Taking a player that is developed, or ready to help and putting them in the KZ Okpala spot means they're just depth. Being depth for a player of that age puts them in a very rough career bind where they'll likely struggle to hang on in the league after that first contract. It happens every year and for a bunch of years the Kings were so responsible for that type of situation it's likely what kept them from getting workouts with almost every prospect, haha.
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They didn't call us basketball hell for no reason lol.

Keeping on track with the thread, what do you think about Podz? Such a strange player to me. I trust his shot more than any other player mocked in the back half of the first but I distrust his defense more than any other player as well. Usually great rebounding guards are also good defenders but he kind of breaks the mold on that one. Great shooter, great rebounder, solid playmaker and terrible defender who more than likely won't be anything other than really bad on that end in the NBA due to his physical limitations. Could work in the right scenario but the Kings aren't exactly built to mask bad defenders.
 
ESP47 said:
They didn't call us basketball hell for no reason lol.

Keeping on track with the thread, what do you think about Podz? Such a strange player to me. I trust his shot more than any other player mocked in the back half of the first but I distrust his defense more than any other player as well. Usually great rebounding guards are also good defenders but he kind of breaks the mold on that one. Great shooter, great rebounder, solid playmaker and terrible defender who more than likely won't be anything other than really bad on that end in the NBA due to his physical limitations. Could work in the right scenario but the Kings aren't exactly built to mask bad defenders.
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I agree with your assessment. Podziemski seems like a solid player but another shooter at the NBA level likely. Can he beat NBA defenses off the dribble and become a PG? That's likely his upside spot. Again, super tough with a team like this. He's got a good floater and handle so for a team looking at him as a poor mans Steph Curry or rich mans Seth or PG they could get tons of value out of him. He could have a Seth Curry type career IMO at his floor.
 
There's some rumblings about Hendricks at 5 again.. I swear that pick makes sense with the Pistons roster...

Does seem like we're gonna see some trades in the 2nd half of the lottery
 
The chatter about Kobe Bufkin does seem real.. He's lottery bound..

How absurd it was when he was projected in the Kings range and then they held him in like the 18-20 spot for so damn long, honestly seems like Givony was doing someone a favor or something keeping him that low, didnt make much sense
 
Imagine the Spurs can trade up into the lottery to pair Anthony Black with Wembanyama? That'd be sick. They'd be so fun to watch.
 
SacTownKid said:
I agree with your assessment. Podziemski seems like a solid player but another shooter at the NBA level likely. Can he beat NBA defenses off the dribble and become a PG? That's likely his upside spot. Again, super tough with a team like this. He's got a good floater and handle so for a team looking at him as a poor mans Steph Curry or rich mans Seth or PG they could get tons of value out of him. He could have a Seth Curry type career IMO at his floor.
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Yeah Seth Curry is a good comp. I hadn't thought of that one.
 
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