Bagley.

I don't see any advantage to this? He would have two months of games left to play if he comes back immediately after the all-star break. He needs to be on the court developing and improving.
Without knowing more, it’s hard to say. If it’s a real injury due to some fluke tweak, coming back makes sense. Heal n let it rip with no reservations.

If it’s a chronic injury, like plantar fasciitis, coming back doesn’t make any sense at all. Because he could play through that today. He’ll just come back n sit when it flares up a week or so later. It’s mental. The only thing to fix it is rest n better shoes, which would be sad n funny because he has a contract with Puma, who should be designing custom shoes for him.
 
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What a disappointing season for MB and the kings. Three giants steps back this year, and our crappy FA signings are here to stay. I for one let my season tickets go (after 10 years). Vlade and co. have proven to be terrible. Fox/Bagley/Heald/Barnes is not a playoff caliber squad.
 
This is disappointing and somewhat worrisome.

I had really hoped that he would be back by now, and be able to work on developing his skills in-game, but that becomes less likely. That means we may have only one full season (hopefully) to assess what we have with him before deciding on his 4th year option, no?

Despite the fact that the nature of his injuries so far have not appeared to be disastrous, the amount of time he missed is not good.
Perhaps I am comparing apples with oranges, but his time missed simply doesn't rate favorable with other top prospects. Any way you cut it, that is a red flag.

Marvin played 62 games in his rookie season, only 13 so far this season. Total: 75
After redshirting his first year, Harry Giles played 57 games last season and so far 21 games this season. Total: 79.
Greg Oden played 82 games total in his first two seasons.
Sam Bowie 114 games in his first two seasons.
And our own Pervis Ellison played 110 games in his first two seasons.

Perhaps he will come back in 3 weeks, tears up the league and leaves this injury-plagued start behind. I hope he does.
 
http://www.celticslife.com/2015/01/what-hell-happened-topervis-ellison.html?m=1

“If you saw him play back in the day, before the injuries, it wasn't far-fetched to think of comparisons to Bill Russell. That's right, you read that correctly. The impeccable timing on the shot-blocking. The quick first leap and quick second leap. And he had a flourishing offensive game.”

the more I’ve been reading about pervis, the more I see Bagley. I remember the hopes this franchise had when we drafted pervis. Personally I wanted Stacey king. That was a horrible draft to have the number 1 pick.
 
I am not done waiting for Bagley to come back and contribute and if it’s next year so be it.
Yeah its always concerning when a franchise top pick keeps getting hurt but I think a lot of folks are still comparing him to you know who and that’s just not fair.

Some of us have been with the team since they arrived and Bagley just isn’t a bust like never nervous was. Never nervous reminds more of WCS.
 
I am not done waiting for Bagley to come back and contribute and if it’s next year so be it.
Yeah its always concerning when a franchise top pick keeps getting hurt but I think a lot of folks are still comparing him to you know who and that’s just not fair.

Some of us have been with the team since they arrived and Bagley just isn’t a bust like never nervous was. Never nervous reminds more of WCS.
I'm with you on waiting. Even though I think Bagley was a horrible pick, he's a King now, so I'm rooting for him. If he can get past this injury bug, he could develop into a good core piece. No way he's a straight up bust if healthy. He just doesn't have that superstar ceiling that the other top 5 guys have. He absolutely was flashing 20/10 potential, and if he can get that defense right, he'd be a good sidekick for Fox.
 
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When I look at Bagley in total, his play (when he does play) his on court presence, off court presence, his bench demeanor, and his dad, I see a kid not long for this team. Fair or not, toss in the fan bases expectations for this #2 draft choice and who was taken after him and how they have performed, he’s gonna find a way off this team. He will never get a fair shake here in Sacramento and you can bet his people (dad) knows it. His people will demand a trade or he will just quit on the team and force the teams hand. I’m not a pro, don’t do this for a living, but I’ve seen plenty of every type of player come through the kings turnstile, for what that’s worth. In my eyes the kids a bust. Not here to change minds, just what I see.
 
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When I look at Bagley in total, his play (when he does play) his on court presence, off court presence, his bench demeanor, and his dad, I see a kid not long for this team. Fair or not, toss in the fan bases expectations for this #2 draft choice and who was taken after him and how they have performed, he’s gonna find a way off this team. He will never get a fair shake here in Sacramento. His people will demand a trade or he will just quit on the team and force the teams hand. I’m not a pro, don’t do this for a living, but I’ve seen plenty of every type of player come through the kings turnstile, for what that’s worth. In my eyes the kids a bust. Not here to change minds, just what I see.
I’ll give him a fair shake. But being able to be on the court is a skill. Until he plays a full season, the criticism is warranted. He’s played two years n is on track to play less than half of the games each season. It’s a pattern now. And, it’ll remain so until he proves otherwise.
 

Capt. Factorial

This Is Why We Can't Have Nice Things
Staff member
MOD NOTE: Knock it off. This is not gonna turn into another rehash of what has become more than tiresome. If some of you cannot find a way to avoid the same old same old, you will be locked out of the thread. We mods are done.
MOD NOTE: As tempting as it is for some of you, PLEASE do not turn this into another Luka-Bagley discussion.
Just in case anybody wonders why a bunch more posts disappeared...
 
I did not quit my tickets but I have stepped away from the die-hard fan line. Marvin was not to be seen on the bench in the immediate aftermath of the latest injury - it was conspicuous to me. And he has said things like "I'll play when I'm ready" which might be attributable to just inelegant choice of words, or it could be something worse.

I will embrace him and hope to see him healthy next year - fresh start. But he has not displayed grit. It's almost like I feel - if we had a healthy culture and locker, where Walton had the teams' back and they had his - they would be making it look like Bagley is hard to keep in the rehab room because he is so chomping at the bit to play. But they are very conspicuously NOT creating that impression. On the contrary, the coach is saying stuff like maybe Phil would say about Shaq when he was babying a toe.

Marvin got off to such an unfortunate start this year. A lot of hopes pinned on him, and then he went and shat the bed in the first battle with Ayton - never really subsequently redeeming himself.

I gave Luke a fresh start after the monster come-back, and I'll give Bagley a fresh start as soon as he suits up. But he has earned skepticism as far as his commitment goes.
 
When I look at Bagley in total, his play (when he does play) his on court presence, off court presence, his bench demeanor, and his dad, I see a kid not long for this team. Fair or not, toss in the fan bases expectations for this #2 draft choice and who was taken after him and how they have performed, he’s gonna find a way off this team. He will never get a fair shake here in Sacramento and you can bet his people (dad) knows it. His people will demand a trade or he will just quit on the team and force the teams hand. I’m not a pro, don’t do this for a living, but I’ve seen plenty of every type of player come through the kings turnstile, for what that’s worth. In my eyes the kids a bust. Not here to change minds, just what I see.
Couldn't disagree more. He will absolutely get a fair shake here, and has up until this point as well. Even if he misses the rest of the season he will go into next as either the starter or a key bench reserve playing significant minutes. From there it's up to him. This team has every reason not to abandon his development. In addition to being a massive black eye for the team from a PR perspective, his ceiling is still high. Whatever has happened up until this point and the fans reaction to him so far don't matter. He will still get an ample chance to prove himself. If he quits on the team, good. Let him enjoy that massively reduced payday and short leash wherever he goes go. If he demands a trade, good too. By that point things will be so bad that we should be happy to rid ourselves of the problem.

What I will say is that if Bagley doesn't come into next year with an improved shot, improved right hand, and a little more muscle the likelihood that things work out well here plummets.
 
This is disappointing and somewhat worrisome.

I had really hoped that he would be back by now, and be able to work on developing his skills in-game, but that becomes less likely. That means we may have only one full season (hopefully) to assess what we have with him before deciding on his 4th year option, no?

Despite the fact that the nature of his injuries so far have not appeared to be disastrous, the amount of time he missed is not good.
Perhaps I am comparing apples with oranges, but his time missed simply doesn't rate favorable with other top prospects. Any way you cut it, that is a red flag.

Marvin played 62 games in his rookie season, only 13 so far this season. Total: 75
After redshirting his first year, Harry Giles played 57 games last season and so far 21 games this season. Total: 79.
Greg Oden played 82 games total in his first two seasons.
Sam Bowie 114 games in his first two seasons.
And our own Pervis Ellison played 110 games in his first two seasons.

Perhaps he will come back in 3 weeks, tears up the league and leaves this injury-plagued start behind. I hope he does.
the fact he has missed games isn’t the only problem. If you look at the Kings record with and without Marvin it’s hard to argue he doesn’t make the team worse in the near term. Maybe he gets better who knows but at this point I’m not sure I will still be a fan.

I expect the Kings to once again finish 8-10. Not good enough for the playoff, not bad enough for a top pick, not young enough for a future. Hard to find any hope to hold on to.
 
the fact he has missed games isn’t the only problem. If you look at the Kings record with and without Marvin it’s hard to argue he doesn’t make the team worse in the near term. Maybe he gets better who knows but at this point I’m not sure I will still be a fan.

I expect the Kings to once again finish 8-10. Not good enough for the playoff, not bad enough for a top pick, not young enough for a future. Hard to find any hope to hold on to.
Hard to argue with.
And the sad thing is, even if we do get a top pick:
1. this is considered a pretty weak draft class;
2. I don't trust this FO to make the right pick, regardless;
3. I have little faith in Luke putting the draft pick (or most players, for that matter) in a situation to succeed.

Once the season got off the rails, I was hoping that at least we'll see some strides in Marvin's game. But due to his injuries we won't even see that. That is too bad and disheartening. This season is so tough.
 
Hard to argue with.
And the sad thing is, even if we do get a top pick:
1. this is considered a pretty weak draft class;
2. I don't trust this FO to make the right pick, regardless;
3. I have little faith in Luke putting the draft pick (or most players, for that matter) in a situation to succeed.
By whom? There are no experts every class is a case by case basis.
 
By whom? There are no experts every class is a case by case basis.
That is a valid point.
I heard it in several places, but to be truthful, that could be just sources feeding off of each other.

The latest I stumbled into was at SI:
https://www.si.com/nba/2019/12/19/2020-nba-draft-trade-deadline-impact

But how many and specifically which players excite you about this draft class, if I may ask?
I sort of like Wiseman, am not impressed by Ball but he could be good and then I see a whole bunch of so-so guys.

Sorry if this if off-topic.
 
That is a valid point.
I heard it in several places, but to be truthful, that could be just sources feeding off of each other.

The latest I stumbled into was at SI:
https://www.si.com/nba/2019/12/19/2020-nba-draft-trade-deadline-impact

But how many and specifically which players excite you about this draft class, if I may ask?
I sort of like Wiseman, am not impressed by Ball but he could be good and then I see a whole bunch of so-so guys.

Sorry if this if off-topic.
I have done exactly 0% "scouting" this year. All I know is we better invest in some defensive players.
 
I understand the frustration. Bagley not being able to develop this year is terrible. But questioning a person’s grit when they are hurt is weak. And it is hard to be part of the team when you are injured - especially when you are 20 and haven’t proven anything yet.
 
If he's in a walking boot, which he is, it's likely he has ligament damage or a soft tissue tear.

That means lacking grit really isn't part of the discussion in this case.

You would think after Bogi's foot problems which lingered, fans would want Bagley to take the time to heal.
Then the Kings organization should tell me that instead of seeing (foot soreness) in the injury description every day.
 
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That is a valid point.
I heard it in several places, but to be truthful, that could be just sources feeding off of each other.

The latest I stumbled into was at SI:
https://www.si.com/nba/2019/12/19/2020-nba-draft-trade-deadline-impact

But how many and specifically which players excite you about this draft class, if I may ask?
I sort of like Wiseman, am not impressed by Ball but he could be good and then I see a whole bunch of so-so guys.

Sorry if this if off-topic.
Obi Toppin will be a star in the nba, you heard it hear first. But yeah, this topic probably belongs somewhere else.
 

VF21

#KingsFansForever
Staff member
That is a valid point.
I heard it in several places, but to be truthful, that could be just sources feeding off of each other.

The latest I stumbled into was at SI:
https://www.si.com/nba/2019/12/19/2020-nba-draft-trade-deadline-impact

But how many and specifically which players excite you about this draft class, if I may ask?
I sort of like Wiseman, am not impressed by Ball but he could be good and then I see a whole bunch of so-so guys.

Sorry if this if off-topic.
We have threads discussing the upcoming draft and potential candidates. This question belongs in one of those.