Bagley.

I had to skip ahead of a lot of the messages because I am tired and in poor health. I will say this. I blame this season's woes the loss of Pete Youngman. I do not think it's any coincidence that after the loss of our long time doctor in Chief, do we have one of the worst spates of injuries to our recollection.


As far as where Bagley and everyone else is concerned I feel it is up in the air and not entirely their fault. I feel like the organization has let them down for whatever reason.

We always seem to shoot ourselves in the foot somehow, sometimes in new and exciting ways :-(
 
I think this is tough break on Bagley. First of his dad was calling Dave's head due to benching the second pick. But now that Luke is running the team, Bag's getting injuries everywhere. The fan base was expecting a big improvement pivoting on Bagley no longer sitting on the bench. But he was not there for a big amount of time.

Tough break!! But think the kid is still a stud.
That heat game was the kid that was supposed to anchor this team from inside.

This brings me back on the Jordan draft group. Hakeem was the first pick of that draft. But people don't bash Houston or THE DREAM himself because he made his own name and clearly showed he was a stud on his own stage ( a big man inside) even if MJ was the annointed GOAT. Well Marvin is far from Hakeem right now but Luca isn't MJ anyway

So I wish that some of the fan base keep the faith. I'm still half-full even though I have thrown a white flag on this team's playoff hopes.
 
You made a really long post that basically backs up what I said. If a player puts up 20 and 10, he is highly likely going to be an All Star.

I absolutely consider Love, Aldridge, and Griffin elite. These are max contract franchise players. That's about as elite as it gets. You seem to think only MVP level players are elite, that's fine. I don't.

Woods just murdered the Kings. He and Marjanovic are playing limited minutes but when they do get on the court, they've been making All-Star like impact. Now, there may be reasons why they can't get on the court full time, it doesn't matter, when they do get on the court, they've been
balling like All-Star caliber. Now, maybe their numbers are inflated because of match-ups, but it just proves my point - if Bagley can match their "inflated" numbers and if he can do so regardless of matchups; then that just shows his numbers are legit.

I never said if any old player's adjusted number comes out to 20 and 10, he is going to be an All-Star. Never. I said Bagley can get to 20 and 10 as a full time player and when that happens he is going to be in the conversation. Unlike Woods and Marjanovic, Bagley will for sure get 36 mpg at some point in his future (maybe the other two guys will too, but it is not a certainty). I predict he will maintain his scoring and rebounding pace, plus improvement in 3s, steals, and assists. He is going to be a full time starter that put up 20, 10, 35% 3pt, 2 steals, 1.5 blocks, 2.5 assists type of numbers. And he is going to be making a case for the All-Star game year in, year out. That's my prediction. I am not saying anyone who plays 2 mins and score 1 pt is going to be All-Star like you made it out to be.

That DOES NOT mean I am predicting Woods Marjanovic are going to be 20 & 10 and playing 36 mins!!!!!!!!!! Ok?! I am only talking about Bagley.
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The key word is “if” he puts up 20 & 10. Like my post indicated, there are a handful of people who have averaged 20 & 10 per36 for consecutive seasons and are not all star level players. The people who post 20 & 10 per game likely get the minutes to do so because they help their team in other ways. Bagley hasn’t been an efficient scorer, an efficient 3PT shooter, a good passer, and a good defender. He needs to improve in a lot of areas if he is ever going to get the minutes to average 20 & 10 outright but let’s be clear here. Correlation does not equal causation. Averaging 20 & 10 doesn’t make him an all star it’s the fact the he has improved his game enough to play 35 mpg that will make him an all star. And that increase in minutes will allow him to have a shot at averaging 20 & 10.

Yeah, we operate from very different definitions of the word “elite.”

You do realize that there has never been a player in the NBA who has posted a season with at least .350 3PT%, 20 PPG, 10 RPG, 2.5 APG, 2.0 SPG, & 1.5 BPG? But yet you’re saying “he is going” to put up these numbers? Really? If you take away the 3PT% qualification, you’re left with 2 players who have done this (for only 3 seasons): Hakeem & Barkley. Now that’s “elite” company.

Can he do it? Anything is possible, I guess, but it’s not likely. I nowhere have the confidence you have that he can produce a season that has never been achieved before in the NBA but that’s where we differ I suppose.
 
he's saying that if you wanted Luka, don't "switch positions" when Bagley starts putting up good games. Be true to yourself kind of thing - at least that's what I got from it. (Don't become a bandwagon fan...)
IMO not a good statement for Bags. For example I preferred Luka with that pick. That said I have supported Bags and want him to succeed as a King. That is because of the name on the front of Bags jersey.
 
IMO not a good statement for Bags. For example I preferred Luka with that pick. That said I have supported Bags and want him to succeed as a King. That is because of the name on the front of Bags jersey.
If you support Marvin from the day he put on that Kings jersey, then keep that same energy. ;)

No doubt Marvin is directing the quote towards the ones who won't accept him or support him because he's not Luka.
 
I don't think any true kings fan isn't supporting him because his name isn't Luka. That's kind of a silly statement. I wanted Luka too, but that doesn't mean I want to see him fail. Hell, I'd LOVE it if he were to develop even better! I'd gladly eat a nice hot plate of poop!!!
 
I don't think any true kings fan isn't supporting him because his name isn't Luka. That's kind of a silly statement. I wanted Luka too, but that doesn't mean I want to see him fail. Hell, I'd LOVE it if he were to develop even better! I'd gladly eat a nice hot plate of poop!!!
I love Yogi and wish him success. It doesn't mean I can't acknowledge he is a long shot to be an all star. That's not hate.
 
I don't think any true kings fan isn't supporting him because his name isn't Luka. That's kind of a silly statement. I wanted Luka too, but that doesn't mean I want to see him fail. Hell, I'd LOVE it if he were to develop even better! I'd gladly eat a nice hot plate of poop!!!
Maybe not everyone is a “true kings fan”. A majority of us are and shouldn’t take offense. I’ve said before you can hope both do well. Those that hate on him cuz he isn’t Luka no who they are and I’m sure that’s who it’s directed towards.
 
I don't think any true kings fan isn't supporting him because his name isn't Luka. That's kind of a silly statement. I wanted Luka too, but that doesn't mean I want to see him fail. Hell, I'd LOVE it if he were to develop even better! I'd gladly eat a nice hot plate of poop!!!
I think if you look close enough there are plenty of Kings fans that will never give Bags a chance. Some even say they want him to succeed. But their expectations are so unreasonable that their true intentions seem to be to bash him at every opportunity. It’s sad to see a King treated this way. But it’s also unreasonable to expect unconditional love and support for a player that hasn’t even come close to minimum expectations after one and a half seasons.
 

bajaden

Hall of Famer
You make it sound like Memphis traded Conley and Gasol years ago and ended up with vastly different picks than the Kings. The Kings got lucky with their process resulting with the 2 and 5 picks, sure, but I’d say the issue right now is more that Ja is playing like a top pick and Bagley currently isn’t.
While that is a fact, there is more to the story. Injuries have had a huge impact on Bagleys career so far. It's no one's fault, but it is fact. Also, it's much easier for a PG, especially a very talented one, to display his abilities than it is a center or a PF. So when you factor in both those things, It's not a surprise that Morant is making more of a splash than Bagley.
 
While that is a fact, there is more to the story. Injuries have had a huge impact on Bagleys career so far. It's no one's fault, but it is fact. Also, it's much easier for a PG, especially a very talented one, to display his abilities than it is a center or a PF. So when you factor in both those things, It's not a surprise that Morant is making more of a splash than Bagley.
While I agree why is Ja being compared to Bagley is not JJJ a PF who is showing his ability?
 
While that is a fact, there is more to the story. Injuries have had a huge impact on Bagleys career so far. It's no one's fault, but it is fact. Also, it's much easier for a PG, especially a very talented one, to display his abilities than it is a center or a PF. So when you factor in both those things, It's not a surprise that Morant is making more of a splash than Bagley.
who is comparing Morant to Bagley? I’m comparing JJJ to Bagley.
 
I am NOT going to derail this thread, but i am getting nervous about how Bagley fits with us because i don’t see it with this current group. I’m sure he’ll improve greatly and heal my doubt, but in terms of this season with this group...

MOD NOTE: Post moved to Bagley thread.
 
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Entity

Hall of Famer
I am NOT going to derail this thread, but i am getting nervous about how Bagley fits with us because i don’t see it with this current group. I’m sure he’ll improve greatly and heal my doubt, but in terms of this season with this group...
we have zero post presence without Bagley. not gonna come back from 22 points every night. some nights those shots aren't falling and you need points in the paint. Fox can get to the rim but usually takes some hard hits thats hard to sustain injury free. Barnes can do it but it seems to take alot of effort when he does. rebounding takes a hit as well without bagley. We don't need Bagley to be Cousinsesuqe as far as getting 30 and 15 to win. but if we can put a complete game together where Fox and Buddy are hiting thier averages and then add the post game of Bagley getting you 17-20 and 9-12 reb. Thats when you will see more winning basketball. Unfortunatley we haven't seen enough of it for them to gel. maybe this second half of the season will allow that and we can then grow and move forward with it. Holmes back healthy will be a good addition as well.
 
I am NOT going to derail this thread, but i am getting nervous about how Bagley fits with us because i don’t see it with this current group. I’m sure he’ll improve greatly and heal my doubt, but in terms of this season with this group...
His last game he played he went for 15 and 15 and we almost beat Miami at their home(remember Bam push off on Cojo)....... where they just don’t lose.
 
we have zero post presence without Bagley. not gonna come back from 22 points every night. some nights those shots aren't falling and you need points in the paint. Fox can get to the rim but usually takes some hard hits thats hard to sustain injury free. Barnes can do it but it seems to take alot of effort when he does. rebounding takes a hit as well without bagley. We don't need Bagley to be Cousinsesuqe as far as getting 30 and 15 to win. but if we can put a complete game together where Fox and Buddy are hiting thier averages and then add the post game of Bagley getting you 17-20 and 9-12 reb. Thats when you will see more winning basketball. Unfortunatley we haven't seen enough of it for them to gel. maybe this second half of the season will allow that and we can then grow and move forward with it. Holmes back healthy will be a good addition as well.
Bagley really isn’t a post presence though atleast he’s not showing that.
 
we have zero post presence without Bagley. not gonna come back from 22 points every night. some nights those shots aren't falling and you need points in the paint. Fox can get to the rim but usually takes some hard hits thats hard to sustain injury free. Barnes can do it but it seems to take alot of effort when he does. rebounding takes a hit as well without bagley. We don't need Bagley to be Cousinsesuqe as far as getting 30 and 15 to win. but if we can put a complete game together where Fox and Buddy are hiting thier averages and then add the post game of Bagley getting you 17-20 and 9-12 reb. Thats when you will see more winning basketball. Unfortunatley we haven't seen enough of it for them to gel. maybe this second half of the season will allow that and we can then grow and move forward with it. Holmes back healthy will be a good addition as well.
Numbers are not that easy as u think,

Fox buddy and Bagley.....

Compare those 3 with DMC, Rudy Gay and Isiah Thomas, the year they played together, Sacramento Kings became the first team in NBA history with 3 players average +20 points and still not make it to the PO,

Buddy, Fox and Bagley just can’t really play, right now they must be 2-8 when all 3 of them on floor..... just imagine if Bagley been healthy all year instead playing 10 games... he played 42....
We could be somewhere around 10 wins.

U need to put meaning full Numbers 20 points 10 rebounds means nothing if u give up easy baskets and don’t box out defensive rebounds. The best example of empty numbers it’s been Russell Westbrook for many years, and now Trae Young is gonna replace him. Soon to become the only player that almost average 30 points and 10 assist and still manage to make his team worst when he is on court...

Average defense make u win games in regular season

Top defense make u win championships

No defense make u a lottery team.
 
His arc during the first two years is becoming dangerously close to Pervis Ellison’s. Missed half of his rookie year n had injury issues throughout his career.
My one caveat is, his arrival coincides exactly with the hiring of our awful new training staff. We have had way too many lingering soft tissue injuries for a competent training staff. This training staff needs to be replaced, and whomever hired them needs to be replaced. Then, let’s see how Bagley develops under a competent training staff that has actual NBA experience.
 
Numbers are not that easy as u think,

Fox buddy and Bagley.....

Compare those 3 with DMC, Rudy Gay and Isiah Thomas, the year they played together, Sacramento Kings became the first team in NBA history with 3 players average +20 points and still not make it to the PO,

Buddy, Fox and Bagley just can’t really play, right now they must be 2-8 when all 3 of them on floor..... just imagine if Bagley been healthy all year instead playing 10 games... he played 42....
We could be somewhere around 10 wins.

U need to put meaning full Numbers 20 points 10 rebounds means nothing if u give up easy baskets and don’t box out defensive rebounds. The best example of empty numbers it’s been Russell Westbrook for many years, and now Trae Young is gonna replace him. Soon to become the only player that almost average 30 points and 10 assist and still manage to make his team worst when he is on court...

Average defense make u win games in regular season

Top defense make u win championships

No defense make u a lottery team.
Yeah people keep talking about 20 and 10 but it's going to take an efficient 20 and 10 just to make it to where he doesn't hurt you on the court if he continues to play defense the way he has. The center is the most important defensive position in the game. It's kind of like a baseball team. You may have a really good offense but if your pitcher isn't any good, then all that offense means nothing because he's going to give up more runs than you can score. A bad defensive center is just like that.

All the teams over .500 have really good defensive centers with the exception of the Clippers and the Mavericks. Zubac isn't bad defensively but he's not a stalwart either, but that team is full of really good defenders and two way players. The Mavericks bigs are kind of weak defensively but Luka carries the team nightly. I don't think GMs are stupid and I don't see anyone giving up anything of value for Bagley since a player with his skill set does not lend itself to wins. I think we're stuck with him as somewhat of a bust. Not on Jimmer or Stauskas' level but on the "waste more of our time" level.
 
Yeah people keep talking about 20 and 10 but it's going to take an efficient 20 and 10 just to make it to where he doesn't hurt you on the court if he continues to play defense the way he has. The center is the most important defensive position in the game. It's kind of like a baseball team. You may have a really good offense but if your pitcher isn't any good, then all that offense means nothing because he's going to give up more runs than you can score. A bad defensive center is just like that.

All the teams over .500 have really good defensive centers with the exception of the Clippers and the Mavericks. Zubac isn't bad defensively but he's not a stalwart either, but that team is full of really good defenders and two way players. The Mavericks bigs are kind of weak defensively but Luka carries the team nightly. I don't think GMs are stupid and I don't see anyone giving up anything of value for Bagley since a player with his skill set does not lend itself to wins. I think we're stuck with him as somewhat of a bust. Not on Jimmer or Stauskas' level but on the "waste more of our time" level.
Klieber/Powell were good defensively and I’ve read on clipper forums how good the clips are when Zubac plays but that’s fool Doc underplays him.
 
Yeah people keep talking about 20 and 10 but it's going to take an efficient 20 and 10 just to make it to where he doesn't hurt you on the court if he continues to play defense the way he has. The center is the most important defensive position in the game. It's kind of like a baseball team. You may have a really good offense but if your pitcher isn't any good, then all that offense means nothing because he's going to give up more runs than you can score. A bad defensive center is just like that.

All the teams over .500 have really good defensive centers with the exception of the Clippers and the Mavericks. Zubac isn't bad defensively but he's not a stalwart either, but that team is full of really good defenders and two way players. The Mavericks bigs are kind of weak defensively but Luka carries the team nightly. I don't think GMs are stupid and I don't see anyone giving up anything of value for Bagley since a player with his skill set does not lend itself to wins. I think we're stuck with him as somewhat of a bust. Not on Jimmer or Stauskas' level but on the "waste more of our time" level.
You just called him a bust already.....lol
 
Not in the immediate future. His foot has not yet been reassessed and as of last night he was still in a walking boot.
The question is reassessed by who? Hint: the Kings medical staff didn't put him in the boot. He got the boot between Miami (1/20) and Chicago (1/24). And notice the Utah game reference. He kicked his own foot to re injury it. So he played the Miami game on it, but was then in a boot 4 days later.

 
My one caveat is, his arrival coincides exactly with the hiring of our awful new training staff. We have had way too many lingering soft tissue injuries for a competent training staff. This training staff needs to be replaced, and whomever hired them needs to be replaced. Then, let’s see how Bagley develops under a competent training staff that has actual NBA experience.
They already had a change at the top in September.

Dr. Ramsey Nijem left the Kings for KU.

 
They already had a change at the top in September.

Dr. Ramsey Nijem left the Kings for KU.

This is not the person that Mr. Youngman referenced in a previous tweet. That individual is still in place and in charge. Dr. Nijem appears to have taken a lateral position (eye of beholder, of course) very late in the hiring cycle—an interesting move.