AleksandarN
Starter
How can Vlade find out who leaked this when it is not true to begin with.
Bagley needs to start or Joerger gone?
- Thread starter PurpleHaze
- Start date
How can Vlade find out who leaked this when it is not true to begin with.
kb02
All-Star
It’s not hard to tell who it’s coming from. My guess, in order of most to least likely: Skal, Giles, or Bags camp.
Noticed the wording here: “The front office views this season as a development year, sources said, but it was still confident that the team would be competitive and grow with Bagley, promising guard De’Aaron Fox, and forwards Harry Giles and Skal Labissiere meaningful minutes.”
Of the four players, who has the biggest gripe minutes wise?
Bye, Skal.
Noticed the wording here: “The front office views this season as a development year, sources said, but it was still confident that the team would be competitive and grow with Bagley, promising guard De’Aaron Fox, and forwards Harry Giles and Skal Labissiere meaningful minutes.”
Of the four players, who has the biggest gripe minutes wise?
Bye, Skal.
Kingz19
Hall of Famer
With no draft pick in stow Joerger is absolutely going to be judged by Wins and losses. Especially since the team has proven competitive and capable of winning. Also, front office that matters wouldn’t keep Kosta, sign Bjeli, and draft Bagley if they were worried about Skal(who regressed big time last year from his promising flashes the season before) being an odd man out and not every big under 22 getting huge minutes. This is either a lower end(basically a fan) organization figure venting to media or national media trying to sow discord so they can start rosterbating for the Celtics going into the NBA draft.
Kings are definetly going to be in a delicate situation for the next month with the schedule being what it it is. Our fairest expectation/hope even if the Kings play as well as they did on the 5 game winning streak is they are still hovering around .500 by mid December. Convenient time to start manufacturing a cloud over the team, coaching, and management
Kings are definetly going to be in a delicate situation for the next month with the schedule being what it it is. Our fairest expectation/hope even if the Kings play as well as they did on the 5 game winning streak is they are still hovering around .500 by mid December. Convenient time to start manufacturing a cloud over the team, coaching, and management
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I highly doubt that it's Skal. His agent also represents Bjelica and Bogdanovic. The narrative from his agent wouldn't fit at all.
Giles and Bagley's camp would seem kinda plausible... especially since they both share the same agent: Jeff Schwartz. Giles' has been hyped up as something special only to fall flat onto his face. He has a lot to prove and he wants to prove a lot to different me. He has looked horrific anytime he's gotten PT this season, so Joerger has benched him. He is seriously unplayable out there. If Joerger doesn't take him out, fouling out within 20mins would. After being benched, he got assigned to the GLeague in Stockton. Not all players embrace being delegated. He was given a decent amount of minutes after his 1 game stint in Stockton. In 16mins he put up 12pts 6rebs against the Spurs, but had 5PFs and 3tos. In the next game against Memphis he only received 7mins due to 4 fouls. So how about the most recent game against Houston?
The Yahoo article came out during the Kings-Rockets game towards the end. We were down double digits through the first half. Harry Giles received 0 minutes throughout the 1st half. He also played 0 minutes in the 3rd quarter. He didn't get subbed into the game until the 4th quarter when the game already became out of reach. What if the source got fed up and released it right then? The timing is so damn awkward. Usually you'll get "sources" about rifts or dysfunctions after a game..especially loses. If it came from someone in the FO, doesn't it seem like they would've waited until after the game? This article was published before the game even concluded.
..........it kinda seems like this would come from Giles' camp right? Especially since they do have very solid direct link with Bagley's camp and it would explain why they would ride on Bagley's name.
Maybe I'm over-analyzing, but I would not be surprised.
Ozymandias
All-Star
No short-term positives. This could be to appease the Bagley camp long-term though, as far-fetched as that seems I do believe that players(or should i say diva's....) hold grudges from their early years in the league e.g. Hayward bolting on Utah, and to do that the message needs to be public. Then you have Vlade issue the type of statement he did, and it's business as usual. It's like a plausible deniability thing. When the Bagley camp says "why isn't he starting?!?" they can respond it's this coach and if he doesn't change we're gonna make a change, a show of solidarity... This is what everyone gets paid the big bucks for no? Coach is the poker-faced scapegoat..
Lets not forget Marvin could take the Q/O and then bolt on this franchise first chance, which would reflect poorly on all parties involved.. There's still small-market hurdles to overcome here..
Bottom line is I bet everyone's gonna be real tight lipped about this, but ultimately we will see the change in the minutes/rotation that coincide with this report...
I can't help but think this is ripple effect from Marvin's camp in response to JJJ going off for like 27 and 17.... Seems like not a coincidence to me..
Kingz19
Hall of Famer
The yahoo article came out before the game. Maybe 10 minutes before tip off. Atleast Sactown Royalty acknowledged it 10 minutes before tip off
Ozymandias
All-Star
You've overthought this one a bit. Giles has absolutely no leverage to make such a stink(same for skal), it's not in his character after the way he played poorly the open of the season either....
It's clearly the Bagley camp... Read Vlade's statement again. It's like he's repeating himself to the Bagley camp, telling em the same thing he's told em thru the entire process.
Everyone was all rosey about "Marvin wants to play in sacramento and these other guys dont". well lemme be the one to break the news, part of that is because he knew that he's got a support system in place to attempt to strong-arm any team who tries to lead him in a direction he doesn't want to head... and he's certainly young and rich enough to wait it out.
The onus is on the Kings, the appeasment process has started! the've brought it upon themselves, this is what they signed up for. It's a good problem to have, if they didn't hit the lottery they wouldnt have this luxury
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Tetsujin
The Game Thread Dude
Except the article came out before the game so nope.
The Hammer
All-Star
Surfaced here about 20-30 mins before tipoff. Was quite surprised that Grant and Koz both kept mentioning it IMMEDIATELY following the game. Then Vlade's statement. Well, you gotta give them credit for addressing it head on. Definitely like that.
rosa u podne
Bench
Sources?
Anyway, it is gossip journalism and article sucks, its intention is obviously to negativly impact the franchise. If source is Bagley's dad I want his son traded for the right package as soon as opportunity arises.
Just to clarify, I was not in Luka camp and I think Bagley plays well enough for a high pick.
What sources?
What sources? Who is "franchise"?
So, the "sources" know how the FO views the season and exaclty which players are supposed to play meaningful minutes.
Here is a clue who might be the "source". Besides, comparing apples to oranges twice. Numbers playing agains startes of opposing teams and backups. 50% 3pt shooting on much bigger sample then Bagley's 41%. Anyway, Bagley might replace Belica or WCS when he earns it. Now he gets enough opportunity to show he deserves it.
Anothe BS. Comparing minutes on players playing different positions and have different competition.
I am not sure what is the second sentence about. The organization future depends on Bagley or Bagley criticized the organization future. I think somebady needs to tell Bagley's father to shut up.
That might be true. However, the lack of communication could be because Jorger doesn't know the future either. Giles got his chances and underproduced, Skal hasn't shown improvements, but opportunity may arise or it may not.
Anyway, it is gossip journalism and article sucks, its intention is obviously to negativly impact the franchise. If source is Bagley's dad I want his son traded for the right package as soon as opportunity arises.
Just to clarify, I was not in Luka camp and I think Bagley plays well enough for a high pick.
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Sactown ExPat
Starter
I just want to reiterate that this stage or helicopter parent/guardian issue was a major red flag for every player in the top 6–if the source is even the Bagley camp. There was no avoiding these kind of concerns this year as there was no Tatum or Fox type situation available at the top of the draft. There is no point in relitigating the draft on these grounds.
I wouldn’t undersell Puma in all this. They made this huge splash this summer, and none of their guys are showing out right now. I guess Ayton has been fine, but the team is just unwatchable. Their best hope is that Bagley gets some more run and starts generating some viral highlights. The crucial holiday season is upon us and Puma’s first campaign is a total goose egg right now.
I wouldn’t undersell Puma in all this. They made this huge splash this summer, and none of their guys are showing out right now. I guess Ayton has been fine, but the team is just unwatchable. Their best hope is that Bagley gets some more run and starts generating some viral highlights. The crucial holiday season is upon us and Puma’s first campaign is a total goose egg right now.
kingsboi
Hall of Famer
too much is being made out of a random rumor coming from Yahoo based on an "anonymous" source. The Kings really don't owe anyone an apology or explanation here and they simply need to come out and say they support Dave and the direction and move on. Resolve anything that is going on behind closed doors and leave it at that.
origkds
What- Me Worry?
Wow, I guess I'm a little naive because this is something that would have never occurred to me. Does this kind of stuff really happen?
sactowndog
All-Star
You've overthought this one a bit. Giles has absolutely no leverage to make such a stink(same for skal), it's not in his character after the way he played poorly the open of the season either....
It's clearly the Bagley camp... Read Vlade's statement again. It's like he's repeating himself to the Bagley camp, telling em the same thing he's told em thru the entire process.
Everyone was all rosey about "Marvin wants to play in sacramento and these other guys dont". well lemme be the one to break the news, part of that is because he knew that he's got a support system in place to attempt to strong-arm any team who tries to lead him in a direction he doesn't want to head... and he's certainly young and rich enough to wait it out.
The onus is on the Kings, the appeasment process has started! the've brought it upon themselves, this is what they signed up for. It's a good problem to have, if they didn't hit the lottery they wouldnt have this luxury
I’m hearing, despite Vlade’s comments otherwise, that this report is true. I would not be so quick to throw Marvin’s parents under the bus.
burekijogurt
Starter
if the report is true, and it was leaked by someone within the organization and not from the outside, then that person needs to be smoked out and fired. they obviously do not wish well to the organization.
sactowndog
All-Star
I think all just have to wait and see. I do think Giles needs more play time and needs to be allowed to shot longer pick and pops from 3. But that’s only my opinion.
Skal was taken at a point where a lot of players don’t stick but curious why he is not spending time in Stockton?
Giles is lucky with his health issues and it’s obvious a lot of folks in the organization think highly of him.
Bagley shows signs of being very good and is about where I thought he would be at this point.
Skal at this point in his career needs to find a place to play and it seems the Kings are not going to be it. But why would he do it when he really has no leverage other than leaving some way.
Giles is one season or one injury away from getting a big uptick in playing time. But after just getting sent to Stockton I really do not believe it’s him.
Bagley may think he needs 30 plus a game and maybe he does but he needs to have patience. Could be him but if it is man for a rookie 15 games into his career to do that is not good. I doubt he did but maybe someone close to him?
We have 2 guys that have been decent backups for their career and 2 guys who should start.
Giles is lucky with his health issues and it’s obvious a lot of folks in the organization think highly of him.
Bagley shows signs of being very good and is about where I thought he would be at this point.
Skal at this point in his career needs to find a place to play and it seems the Kings are not going to be it. But why would he do it when he really has no leverage other than leaving some way.
Giles is one season or one injury away from getting a big uptick in playing time. But after just getting sent to Stockton I really do not believe it’s him.
Bagley may think he needs 30 plus a game and maybe he does but he needs to have patience. Could be him but if it is man for a rookie 15 games into his career to do that is not good. I doubt he did but maybe someone close to him?
We have 2 guys that have been decent backups for their career and 2 guys who should start.
rosa u podne
Bench
It is possible that Bagley has incentives from Puma or whatever company based on performance, with significant amount for ROY award, all rookie team and similar and they think they are loosing money by him not playing 30+ minutes per game.
burekijogurt
Starter
yeah, regardless of what internal conversations migh have been had on the matter, and regardless of who is ultimately right as far as direction is concerned, it should stay behind closed doors. it is distracting to the players to air it out in the open.
burekijogurt
Starter
in addition, it does not seem like this was a story that was seeked out by the writter and he managed to get someone in the organization to speak to him on condition of anonimity. this was purposfely handed to the writer I beleive because of some agenda. just not sure what.
Kingsfan23
All-Star
It makes me happy that our franchise talent, Fox, is a good kid who wants to be here.
IMHO Bagley didn’t do much as want to be in Sacramento but wanted to be picked high (and had positive things to say wherever he worked out). During his introductory press conference I was struck that he mentioned, to paraphrase, that he was glad the process of being drafted was over so it gave him peace to know where he was going to play during the first few years of his career. This, in conjunction with the MVP talk and not taking vocal responsibility for his play in SL, and he’s rubbing me a bit wrong on/off the floor.
If it were someone in the organization, I got Brandon Williams maybe. He may see what I see on how stable Vlade’s ground is after looking at JJJ and the rest of the 2018 picks. Sowing discord between popular coach and GM. But that’s a guess
jcassio
Starter
Yeah, that's it. Let's blame this on Puma!
I actually think there are so many possibilities for this "story" that it's not even worthy of speculation right now.
In other news, I think Joerger has been giving Bagley the minutes he deserves for a #2 pick who makes an incredible number of mistakes. When he improves, I'm confident he will get more minutes.
I actually think there are so many possibilities for this "story" that it's not even worthy of speculation right now.
In other news, I think Joerger has been giving Bagley the minutes he deserves for a #2 pick who makes an incredible number of mistakes. When he improves, I'm confident he will get more minutes.
kb02
All-Star
I don't doubt that there's some truth to it. The Kings, when including the FO, have 50 or so agendas. Sh*t isn't always harmonious.
The part that I don't agree with is that Haynes has a direct line to what the FO is thinking. One thing Vlade has done well is keep FO leaks muted--no one saw the Boogie trade coming (even after Ham's infamous Boogie is the future report) and most folks thought the Bags > Doncic thing was a smokescreen--mostly because folks couldn't get a source to confirm or deny until the day of the draft.
The Bjelly over Bags thing, if true, would land at Vlade and Peja's feet more than it would land at Joeger's. They signed him and until recently, Bjelly starting over Bags was justified. So I have a hard time seeing that as reasoning for why the FO would be pissed at Joeger.
The above is basically a long winded way of saying this smells as though its from the players. If true, the likeliest are:
1. Skal. Lack of playing time. My retort and the FO's retort should be--you had two years to show out.
2. Giles. Out of the rotation. My retort and the FO's retort should be--you were in the rotation and played yourself out of it. Work yourself back in.
3. Bags. 20 minutes per game. My retort and the FO's retort should be--you're less than 20% of the way into your Rookie season. Continue putting your work in and let it come to you.
My money is on Skal's camp. He has the most to gain from the leak. Sometimes its that simple.
If it is Giles camp, I really don't know why they're complaining.
If it Bags, I don't doubt Puma has a say in it and Bags comes from a family that has a history of speaking out--his grandpa (Joe Caldwell, former NBA player) was effectively banned from the league. See here: https://bleacherreport.com/articles...coveted-recruit-with-unique-game-and-pedigree
Kingsfan23
All-Star
I think the report specifically mentions Bagley
Section 101
All-Star
You left out who gains the most from creating dysfuncion. The Celtics.
Kingster
Hall of Famer
Management shouldn't say anything about rotations. They should just acknowledge that Joerger has the final say in minutes' distribution. And as Divac has already done, they should underscore their faith in the coach. Any discussions about minutes' distribution between management and coach should be completely confidential.
