Bad Trade Short Term - Good Trade Long Term

This is a good long term trade and a bad trade in the short term. The reason for the trade is pretty simple: It's a bet against Webber staying healthy. Webber is the third highest paid player in the league. Everyone here seems to assume that Webber is going to stay healthy and perform at his current level over the next three and a half years. I see almost no chance of this happening.

I absolutely believe that right now - today - is the high point of Webber's post-surgery career. It has been five years since Webber was healthy for an extended period. He is coming off microfracture knee surgery. Precisely one NBA player, Kerry Kittles, recovered from microfracture surgery. The others, Jason Kidd, Penny Hardaway, Ed Najera, Jamal Mashburn and Allan Houston, are either shells of their former selves, retired or they weren't that good in the first place.

We're talking about paying a guy $70 million over the next 3 1/2 years who we KNOW won't be healthy. When, not if, but when Webber goes down with knee problems or another injury, he's completely untradable and you're stuck with the remainder of his deal. This trade was about Webber's enormous contract and his propensity for injury. Would you bet $70 million on Webber staying healthy? I wouldn't.

In addition, the Kings get cap relief a year earlier. Williamson and Skinner come off the cap in 06/07, freeing up $12 million the Kings would have paid Webber in 07/08.

Last I checked, the Kings are 2-9 against the top five teams in the West. Even before the recent skid, this WAS NOT a championship-caliber team. The Kings were a certain second round exit and I saw a high likelihood of a first-round upset. Does this make the team better in the short term? No. They're unquestionably worse. I expected to see Petrie get a promising young player, some draft picks or an expiring contract, but he didn't. Corliss IS a very good bench player and has been traded several times, so he DOES have value. Skinner duplicates Ostertag somewhat and probably won't play. Thomas is mediocre unless we can somehow get 10 boards a game out of him. Assuming Webber's health, the immediate talent disparity in this trade is ENORMOUS. The Kings are a five to eight seed playoff team now. However, this trade WILL turn better when Webber misses 35 games each of the next two years and eventually sits the last year of his contract because he's hurt.

The combination of smaller contracts adds flexibility. Peja will have half a season to produce. If he doesn't, the Kings can bundle him with any combination of players for someone like Paul Pierce (Peja and Corliss for Pierce works under the cap). The Kings also have Mobley (sign and trade) and potentially Bobby Jackson as trade bait for a top-tier guy like Ray Allen or Michael Redd. The offseason WILL bring more trades.

This isn't a good trade right now, but it gives the team the flexibility to rebuild and is an almost sure bet against Webber being healthy.
 
if we wanted to rebuild we should have picked up players with expiring contracts. Somehow freeing up salary cap room in 2007 isn't worthy (IMHO) of losing our most effective, and most passionate player.
 
Unless we can parlay Peja and Mobley for Lebron or Wade I don't see this trade leading to much. There isn't much value out there that's available at this point. Paul Pierce, Artest are about the only valuable assets that can be acquired for any reasonable trade.
 
NewMonkey said:
This is a good long term trade and a bad trade in the short term. The reason for the trade is pretty simple: It's a bet against Webber staying healthy. Webber is the third highest paid player in the league. Everyone here seems to assume that Webber is going to stay healthy and perform at his current level over the next three and a half years. I see almost no chance of this happening.

I absolutely believe that right now - today - is the high point of Webber's post-surgery career. It has been five years since Webber was healthy for an extended period. He is coming off microfracture knee surgery. Precisely one NBA player, Kerry Kittles, recovered from microfracture surgery. The others, Jason Kidd, Penny Hardaway, Ed Najera, Jamal Mashburn and Allan Houston, are either shells of their former selves, retired or they weren't that good in the first place.

We're talking about paying a guy $70 million over the next 3 1/2 years who we KNOW won't be healthy. When, not if, but when Webber goes down with knee problems or another injury, he's completely untradable and you're stuck with the remainder of his deal. This trade was about Webber's enormous contract and his propensity for injury. Would you bet $70 million on Webber staying healthy? I wouldn't.

In addition, the Kings get cap relief a year earlier. Williamson and Skinner come off the cap in 06/07, freeing up $12 million the Kings would have paid Webber in 07/08.

Last I checked, the Kings are 2-9 against the top five teams in the West. Even before the recent skid, this WAS NOT a championship-caliber team. The Kings were a certain second round exit and I saw a high likelihood of a first-round upset. Does this make the team better in the short term? No. They're unquestionably worse. I expected to see Petrie get a promising young player, some draft picks or an expiring contract, but he didn't. Corliss IS a very good bench player and has been traded several times, so he DOES have value. Skinner duplicates Ostertag somewhat and probably won't play. Thomas is mediocre unless we can somehow get 10 boards a game out of him. Assuming Webber's health, the immediate talent disparity in this trade is ENORMOUS. The Kings are a five to eight seed playoff team now. However, this trade WILL turn better when Webber misses 35 games each of the next two years and eventually sits the last year of his contract because he's hurt.

The combination of smaller contracts adds flexibility. Peja will have half a season to produce. If he doesn't, the Kings can bundle him with any combination of players for someone like Paul Pierce (Peja and Corliss for Pierce works under the cap). The Kings also have Mobley (sign and trade) and potentially Bobby Jackson as trade bait for a top-tier guy like Ray Allen or Michael Redd. The offseason WILL bring more trades.

This isn't a good trade right now, but it gives the team the flexibility to rebuild and is an almost sure bet against Webber being healthy.

Good post and I agree with most of what you have said with the exception of your comments as to Kenny Thomas. I think that Kenny will average 10 boards a night for the Kings and that he will surprise a lot of people out there who don't know too much about him. Sure, he is a smaller PF, but that didn't stop him from averaging a double double last year. Actually, his rebounding shoudl go up with the Kings and their opponents taking more shots per game than the Sixers and their opponents.
 
No, that's a decent analysis. But now you have to go out and entirely rebuild in the offseason, and convince the teams you are dealing with to take on mediocre players with moderately bad long term deals in return.


Bibby and Miller will most likely survive the carnage, but otherwise we could come out of this thing pretty much finsihed as an elite squad. And of course the irony with Bibby and Miller is that our two building blocks might also be our two worst defenders, so we are stuck in perpetual no defense mode.
 
I think no matter how you look at this trade–to appease Peja, long term benefits, Webbers health, whatever... it's still a bad deal just simply because of what we got in return. No salary dump, no prospects, no starters, no draft picks, nothing. These are the type of guys you can sign in the offseason for a vet exception.
 
NewMonkey said:
This is a good long term trade and a bad trade in the short term. The reason for the trade is pretty simple: It's a bet against Webber staying healthy. Webber is the third highest paid player in the league. Everyone here seems to assume that Webber is going to stay healthy and perform at his current level over the next three and a half years. I see almost no chance of this happening.

I agree with you there, but I also see absolutely no chance of Kenny Thomas being worth 1/8th of his contract for FIVE MORE SEASONS! We are going to be paying a guy who is probably worse than Songalia 8 mil a year for FIVE MORE SEASONS. With his trade kicker in effect, I actually think KT's contract is WORSE than Webber's.

NewMonkey said:
We're talking about paying a guy $70 million over the next 3 1/2 years who we KNOW won't be healthy. When, not if, but when Webber goes down with knee problems or another injury, he's completely untradable and you're stuck with the remainder of his deal. This trade was about Webber's enormous contract and his propensity for injury. Would you bet $70 million on Webber staying healthy? I wouldn't.

Webber's contract is obviously a bad one, but at least it's up in 3 years. We're going to have to pay KT 9 million when he's 32 and 33 - I'd rather gamble on Webber doing something in the last years of his contract than seeing if the Kings can get ANYTHING out of a 10 and 8 guy with an 8 million dollar contract when he's 33.

NewMonkey said:
In addition, the Kings get cap relief a year earlier. Williamson and Skinner come off the cap in 06/07, freeing up $12 million the Kings would have paid Webber in 07/08.

Too bad that $12 million is totally cancelled out (and worse!) by having to pay KT 8-9.5 million in 08/09 and 09/10. The Kings actually GAVE more cap relief to the Sixers than they recieved. We won't be under the cap in 06/07 anyway, thanks to Bibby's contract.


NewMonkey said:
This isn't a good trade right now, but it gives the team the flexibility to rebuild and is an almost sure bet against Webber being healthy.

If anything, this trade HURTS the longterm rebuilding picture, because the Kings took on a contract that is arguably worse than Webber's - we'll NEVER be under the cap now - if getting under the cap was the goal, just wait 3 years for Webber's contract to run out.
 
RangerC said:
I agree with you there, but I also see absolutely no chance of Kenny Thomas being worth 1/8th of his contract for FIVE MORE SEASONS! We are going to be paying a guy who is probably worse than Songalia 8 mil a year for FIVE MORE SEASONS. With his trade kicker in effect, I actually think KT's contract is WORSE than Webber's..

First, your numbers are wrong. Thomas is making 4.7 mil this year and 5.3 in 05/06, 5.8mil in 06/07 escalating up to 7.4mil in 09/10. That's hardly 8million for the next five seasons.

It's not a great contract but neither was Christies and Petrie was able to deal him away at his age. Webber's contract given his age and condition was HORRIBLE!!!
 
Condition? Petrie knew when he signed the deal 3 years ago that Webber has been for his career, injury prone. But yet he was willing to take a chance on Webber for the next 7 years at Max Money. I believe either 2001-2002 or 2002-2003 with a healthy team we would have had a great chance to win the title. Both years under Webber's Max deal. Is it Webber's fault at the time of the deal he went off that year, I believe it was 27/11/5, and was worthy of the money? Petrie knew at the time of the deal about this and still signed him instead of letting him go or signing and trading him. What he didnt know is what would happen in 2003 during the Playoffs which was shocking to all of us.

Webber has in fact, played through the injury and played quiet well. He might not be worth 17, but what we got in exchange for is 17 for the next 3 years to guys? How does this improve our situation unless we move them seperately? How does this improve our chances of signing Peja or Mobley, we will be just as much over the cap. My biggest question is why now? Why not at the end of the season, maybe we could spurn a pick or something. This is a young talented draft class atleast collegewise especially from the school I follow, in UNC.
 
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