Hoovtrain
All-Star
No sh*t. Sac is a HUGE baseball town, always has been.
A's to Sacramento?
- Thread starter gatoradeSD
- Start date
No sh*t. Sac is a HUGE baseball town, always has been.
KingsFanSince85
All-Star
It sounds like you're solely thinking of corporate advertising e.g. signage, commercials, etc. The more important corporate support factor, considering the amount of home games, is purchasing box seats and suites. With the fan support, you may get lots of sponsors for signage and commercials, but it'll be much harder to generate sales of box seats and suites.
Livinthedream
All-Star
I understand, but I would argue that the season ticket price for a decent seat with the A's is about the same price as a season ticket for a decent seat with the Kings. So why would the suites be that much more as well? I definitely could be wrong, but that's how I see it.
Gary
All-Star
I wish I could find an article about it but it basically said that renovating Raley Field was possible and it was exaggerated in the terms of having to tear it down just to build a new one. I have been looking for about a half hour and cannot for the life of me find the article. It was out in late 2009 or early 2010 if I am not mistaken.
Anyhow the gist of it was basically saying that the ballpark could be renovated and that it was an exaggeration saying it would cost just as much to build a new field as it would cost to renovate. They also talked about when they were building the field that they cut corners because of the weather and having to reach the opening day and said that it was a bunch of hogwash and that the footprint there now would support a major league stadium.
Damn.. I am not doing that article justice. I wish I could find it. It was an opinion of the writer but it was backed up by developers and such.
Is this it?
http://newballpark.org/2009/03/07/how-to-expand-a-minor-league-ballpark/
This article is a few years old. So it is important to note that the former parking lot on the west side of the stadium is now a road running right along the ball park. So literally there is probably no room now to expand unless the road gets moved or narrowed.
Last edited:
Trueblood
Bench
Like the other poster said, those days are long gone. There is only one multipurpose stadium left and that's in Oakland where both teams are desperately trying to leave.
Football stadiums cost $1 billion nowadays. Making a stadium for football and then being able to retract to baseball would probably cost more than that. A simple baseball only crib costs no more than $400 million.
Long story short, Sacramento lost their shot at the NFL when Davis moved back to Oakland.
This write up sounds like another option for the A's is possible and it's a familiar theme around the Maloof camp:
http://www.athleticsnation.com/2012...ation-option-from-a-legal-expert-on-the-issue
http://www.athleticsnation.com/2012...ation-option-from-a-legal-expert-on-the-issue
Mike0476
Starter
THE A'S IN SACRAMENTO? A SECOND DECK ON RALEY FIELD ? FORGET ABOUT IT. IT'S JUST A ...$300 MILLION PIPE DREAM - CATS PRESIDENT PROVIDES DOSE OF REALITY
The Sacramento Bee - Tuesday, July 4, 2000
Author: Jim Van Vliet ; Bee Staff Writer
Art Savage will be the easiest guy to spot at Raley Field tonight.
He'll be the thin, silver-haired man smiling as wide as an outside fastball.
In less than two months, he's captured the hearts and wallets of the River City with a baseball park -- and team -- that has reminded fans of what they've missed in previous summers.
He has fulfilled the dreams of many, as they have fulfilled his.
But as baseball and fireworks return to Sacramento on the Fourth of July for the first time since the Bicentennial, this is as far ahead as Savage is prepared to look.
Although Bay Area reports have the A's investigating a move to Silicon Valley or elsewhere, Savage doesn't see the "Sacramento A's" playing any time soon in Yolo County.
Oh, it could be done. The ballpark was designed to add an upper deck and expand capacity to 40,000.
"The acreage is there to ( expand the stadium)," Savage said. "It is pushed back off the street, where you could add a deck and not encroach on traffic.
"The site could accommodate a major-league ballpark. But we're talking $300 million later."
Raley Field cost $40 million and for now, the River Cats' president and CEO is happy just being the master of the baseball domain in Sacramento.
If he leans back in his freshly painted Raley Field office, upstairs behind the suites, he can see the pitcher's mound and batter's box.
It's a view any kid -- ages 10 to 90 -- would envy.
If he takes a little stroll, he can watch the trail of fans who have paid $6 to park in a dusty, gravel pit two blocks away.
He's built the better mousetrap, invented the wheel, cornered the market.
Pick your cliche.
He has built it, and they have come. With enthusiasm and excitement and ATM cards.
Then again, Savage knew he had a hit. He was part of the San Jose Sharks' start-up project in 1990.
"We did a lot of homework before we started this project, and we knew the fan support was there," Savage said. "Everybody said this was a home run. We're not surprised in that regard.
"But we're pleased that it happened. Our dreams and hopes were confirmed."
Savage, a native Texan, gets the most delight from the simple reaction of fans.
"People are blown away with the ballpark," he said. "It's not a high school or college stadium. I think that's what they were expecting, and they are shocked that it's this neat.
"That's my biggest thrill. People don't know how nice it is until they actually come inside. This is a major-league facility. It just has a minor-league amount of seating."
And it will likely remain that way.
A $300 million expansion would include not only a second deck but construction under the stadium. And while clubhouses behind the left- field fence might be quaint, Major League Baseball wouldn't stand for it.
"Except for the field itself, we'd have to start from scratch," Savage said. "It would have to be totally redone."
And that's just the start of it.
Where would the $300 million come from, when it took 24 years to build a minor-league park? And where does the $60 million -- give or take -- for salaries come from? And if Oakland, in the country's No. 4 media market, can't make money off a radio/TV contract, how can Sacramento at No. 20?
"It's a nice thought. Just a little premature," Savage said. "If we show 10 years of sustained attendance, then it's something to look at. But we're not selling out every game. And how long will this euphoria last? It's great right now. But we haven't proven anything yet. It's only been 25 games.
"Though the area is growing, we don't have the corporate base to support (Major League Baseball). And I'm not sure fans are going to be willing to pay three times the price for the seat they have right now."
In Savage's mind, Sacramento and Triple-A baseball are a perfect fit. And, so far, the numbers bear him out.
The River Cats are averaging 12,441 fans per game at Raley Field and are on pace to set the Pacific Coast League record for single-season attendance. Season-ticket sales have surpassed 7,500.
"This is what we dreamed about back in the beginning," vice president Warren Smith said. "Obviously, we're very excited. Now, we're looking forward to doing even better."
And Savage doesn't see why not.
"I'm absolutely convinced it will sustain itself," he said. "It's the right product, and it fits a niche. Fans are surprised how good (the players) are, and the prices are still affordable."
But Savage knows there is more to be done. He sees his ballpark as a rose between thorns, nestled among the tired, industrial blight of the surrounding neighborhood.
He is already investigating the possibility of securing property around the ballpark for parking, parking garages and restaurants.
"We're not done yet," Savage said. "This is just the tip of the iceberg."
Caption: Bee photograph / Chris Crewell The spotlights have been on Raley Field since the River Cats' home opened May 15. The team is on pace to set a Pacific Coast League attendance mark. Bee photograph / Chris Crewell River Cats president Art Savage is a happy man. Crowds are averaging more than 12,000.
Edition: METRO FINAL
Section: SPORTS
Page: D1
Index Terms: PROFILE COST
Record Number: SAC_0331288168
Copyright 2000 The Sacramento Bee
The Sacramento Bee - Tuesday, July 4, 2000
Author: Jim Van Vliet ; Bee Staff Writer
Art Savage will be the easiest guy to spot at Raley Field tonight.
He'll be the thin, silver-haired man smiling as wide as an outside fastball.
In less than two months, he's captured the hearts and wallets of the River City with a baseball park -- and team -- that has reminded fans of what they've missed in previous summers.
He has fulfilled the dreams of many, as they have fulfilled his.
But as baseball and fireworks return to Sacramento on the Fourth of July for the first time since the Bicentennial, this is as far ahead as Savage is prepared to look.
Although Bay Area reports have the A's investigating a move to Silicon Valley or elsewhere, Savage doesn't see the "Sacramento A's" playing any time soon in Yolo County.
Oh, it could be done. The ballpark was designed to add an upper deck and expand capacity to 40,000.
"The acreage is there to ( expand the stadium)," Savage said. "It is pushed back off the street, where you could add a deck and not encroach on traffic.
"The site could accommodate a major-league ballpark. But we're talking $300 million later."
Raley Field cost $40 million and for now, the River Cats' president and CEO is happy just being the master of the baseball domain in Sacramento.
If he leans back in his freshly painted Raley Field office, upstairs behind the suites, he can see the pitcher's mound and batter's box.
It's a view any kid -- ages 10 to 90 -- would envy.
If he takes a little stroll, he can watch the trail of fans who have paid $6 to park in a dusty, gravel pit two blocks away.
He's built the better mousetrap, invented the wheel, cornered the market.
Pick your cliche.
He has built it, and they have come. With enthusiasm and excitement and ATM cards.
Then again, Savage knew he had a hit. He was part of the San Jose Sharks' start-up project in 1990.
"We did a lot of homework before we started this project, and we knew the fan support was there," Savage said. "Everybody said this was a home run. We're not surprised in that regard.
"But we're pleased that it happened. Our dreams and hopes were confirmed."
Savage, a native Texan, gets the most delight from the simple reaction of fans.
"People are blown away with the ballpark," he said. "It's not a high school or college stadium. I think that's what they were expecting, and they are shocked that it's this neat.
"That's my biggest thrill. People don't know how nice it is until they actually come inside. This is a major-league facility. It just has a minor-league amount of seating."
And it will likely remain that way.
A $300 million expansion would include not only a second deck but construction under the stadium. And while clubhouses behind the left- field fence might be quaint, Major League Baseball wouldn't stand for it.
"Except for the field itself, we'd have to start from scratch," Savage said. "It would have to be totally redone."
And that's just the start of it.
Where would the $300 million come from, when it took 24 years to build a minor-league park? And where does the $60 million -- give or take -- for salaries come from? And if Oakland, in the country's No. 4 media market, can't make money off a radio/TV contract, how can Sacramento at No. 20?
"It's a nice thought. Just a little premature," Savage said. "If we show 10 years of sustained attendance, then it's something to look at. But we're not selling out every game. And how long will this euphoria last? It's great right now. But we haven't proven anything yet. It's only been 25 games.
"Though the area is growing, we don't have the corporate base to support (Major League Baseball). And I'm not sure fans are going to be willing to pay three times the price for the seat they have right now."
In Savage's mind, Sacramento and Triple-A baseball are a perfect fit. And, so far, the numbers bear him out.
The River Cats are averaging 12,441 fans per game at Raley Field and are on pace to set the Pacific Coast League record for single-season attendance. Season-ticket sales have surpassed 7,500.
"This is what we dreamed about back in the beginning," vice president Warren Smith said. "Obviously, we're very excited. Now, we're looking forward to doing even better."
And Savage doesn't see why not.
"I'm absolutely convinced it will sustain itself," he said. "It's the right product, and it fits a niche. Fans are surprised how good (the players) are, and the prices are still affordable."
But Savage knows there is more to be done. He sees his ballpark as a rose between thorns, nestled among the tired, industrial blight of the surrounding neighborhood.
He is already investigating the possibility of securing property around the ballpark for parking, parking garages and restaurants.
"We're not done yet," Savage said. "This is just the tip of the iceberg."
Caption: Bee photograph / Chris Crewell The spotlights have been on Raley Field since the River Cats' home opened May 15. The team is on pace to set a Pacific Coast League attendance mark. Bee photograph / Chris Crewell River Cats president Art Savage is a happy man. Crowds are averaging more than 12,000.
Edition: METRO FINAL
Section: SPORTS
Page: D1
Index Terms: PROFILE COST
Record Number: SAC_0331288168
Copyright 2000 The Sacramento Bee
Last edited:
vikinginferno
Starter
If this is some way for the city to give us something instead of basketball, I say **** THAT!
I've said this before, but am I the only one who sees the hypocrisy in a fanbase who's deadbeat owners would rather take the team elsewhere than invest in a regional deal to keep a beloved sporting institution where it's been for decades (long before they came from out of town to buy the team) now actively rooting for another owner to do the exact same thing to a different city?
Historically the A's have enjoyed great success in Oakland, when it was understood that the Bay Area was a two team market. Since around 2000 or so when the Giants moved to Pac Bell they've forced the Oakland A's organization completely out of the South Bay area and claimed 75% of the Bay Area market as their own. The current owner, Lew Wolff, has wanted to build a stadium in San Jose since even before he bought the team. He even recommended that the Giants move there before they built their current stadium and remained in the city.
Selfishly I would enjoy having the two sports teams I actively root for in the same region, but it would be enormously unfair to Oakland and it's fans for that team to be moved anywhere else. In any case, I think Wolff would rather sell the team than move to Sacramento and if he does sell I would hope that MLB can find an ownership group with some ties to that city. Oakland is on the brink of losing the Warriors and the Raiders continue to talk about leaving as well so there's motivation for them to stop stalling and work something out if they do get a cooperative owner in there.
Historically the A's have enjoyed great success in Oakland, when it was understood that the Bay Area was a two team market. Since around 2000 or so when the Giants moved to Pac Bell they've forced the Oakland A's organization completely out of the South Bay area and claimed 75% of the Bay Area market as their own. The current owner, Lew Wolff, has wanted to build a stadium in San Jose since even before he bought the team. He even recommended that the Giants move there before they built their current stadium and remained in the city.
Selfishly I would enjoy having the two sports teams I actively root for in the same region, but it would be enormously unfair to Oakland and it's fans for that team to be moved anywhere else. In any case, I think Wolff would rather sell the team than move to Sacramento and if he does sell I would hope that MLB can find an ownership group with some ties to that city. Oakland is on the brink of losing the Warriors and the Raiders continue to talk about leaving as well so there's motivation for them to stop stalling and work something out if they do get a cooperative owner in there.
The Hammer
All-Star
Actually no. There are so many damn teams in the Bay area that if one moved a few miles I wouldn't waste many tears on it.
Completely different situation in Sac. This is the only team we've ever had.
king4life89
G-League
Dammm baseball is so boring no great action like bball or football id be pist if we let kings walk to try n get a baseball team here
gatoradeSD
G-League
why would you be pissed. nobody is forcing you to watch it
Section 101
All-Star
No there isn't. The city only owns a small part the rest is all private.
Section 101
All-Star
Except for the fact that it will be almost impossible to get just one done let alone two. If it's going to happen then it should be a dual purpose to attracted the other.
Livinthedream
All-Star
Nothing is impossible. But you can't attract a team with a dual purpose stadium. Football is not even in the discussion right now anyways. Not with 2 teams 90 miles from us.
Doesn't it make you a little mad when Seattle SuperSonics fans respond to articles about the Kings that they hope the Maloofs will take the team up to Seattle so they can get their Sonics back? Same thing.
kennadog
Dog On It!
Yes. Seattle is very different, too, though. They still have two professional sports teams. So I get mad that they want to take the only pro team Sacramento's ever had.
Section 101
All-Star
The idea would be one of those teams moving here. No I'm not a Raiders fan either. But they are not happy in the Coliseum either.
I understand the sentiment, but I still think you're both equivocating. Would it make you any less mad if Seattle had no pro sports teams left and they wanted the Kings? Be honest.
Three actually, they draw 35-40k a match to see their MLS team. They also are a very realistic location for the NHL's Phoenix Coyotes to land.
They are also horrible fans when their teams aren't winning. One of the most fair-weathered markets in the US.
As to the A's moving from Oakland, it isn't quite the same as moving them 400-1000 miles away. They already have lots of fans in Sacramento, or lots of A's fans that switched to Giants fans after the Bash Bros. era will come back, and die hard bay area fans could still attend some games. Yeah it sucks, but if they can't get a workable deal done to stay in Oakland I don't know what to say. It is a big difference than the NBA working a sweet heart deal with the city to keep ownership in town and then having the owners say it isn't good enough.
I don't know whether you follow the A's or not, but my point earlier was that the current owner of the A's is not cooperating with the city of Oakland at all. The city wants the team to stay, Wolff wants to move to San Jose because he wants all the Silicon Valley $$$. Just like the Maloofs want a piece of the So Cal market. And that's why I don't see Sacramento happening. Wolff only bought the team because he thought he could move it to the South Bay. If that doen't work out, he's going to sell he's not going to move to an even smaller market than where he is now. The new stadium is irrelevant, he was already going to privately finance the San Jose stadium. They'd be there already if the Giants weren't blocking the move.
I don't follow all the A's news, I'm a Red Sox fan first and a Giants fan second. Is Oakland going to build a new stadium the same way Sac will for the Kings?
I honestly don't understand why the Giants are allowed to block a move from Oakland to San Jose though. Doesn't seem fair, they already share the market, it's not an intruder stepping in like Kings to Anaheim. Allows the fan base to remain mostly unchanged, although with Bay Area traffic may as well just move to Sac.
I don't understand it either, but apparently MLB has its own rules. It becomes almost comical when you realize that the A's organization gave the Giants the rights to San Jose for free 20 years ago when it looked like the Giants were going to leave the Bay Area so they could explore building a new stadium there instead of going to Florida. The owner of the A's at the time, Walter Haas, actually wanted the Giants to stay because of how much history they have there. 20 years later and the Giants organization refuses to return the favor. TV/Radio rights deals have gotten ridiculous since then and the Giants rightfully see this as a potential drain on their profits. But it hardly seems fair to divide a massive media market in such a way that one team can spend like crazy and the other is barely scraping by.
Personally I still hold out hope that Oakland can get something done, but it's never going to happen as long as Lew Wolff is the owner. I'm sure they would thrive in San Jose, but 44 years of history ought to count for something.
Trueblood
Bench
While the Giants look like selfish morons on the surface, there is actually some validity to why they want to hold on so dearly to the south bay market.
When they built AT&T Park, they did it with their own private money. I believe it was the only privately financed building in like God knows how many years. In order to justify the cost of construction and bond payback, they needed access to the large corporate sector in the south bay. Their thinking was that the corporate sponsorship money that they would be raking in would help pay off the bonds and make the project a worthwhile one.
If the A's were to move to San Jose, the corporate money would most likely go to the local San Jose team as opposed to the Giants and then they would be scrambling to find a way to pay off their stadium for the next decade and a half.
My best guess is that an A's move to San Jose doesn't happen but if it does, the Giants are probably going to ask for the monetary equivalent of what they get from corporate San Jose over the next 15 years as a way of breaking territorial rights. You're probably looking at over $150 million. I don't know if that's in Wolff's range or not.
When they built AT&T Park, they did it with their own private money. I believe it was the only privately financed building in like God knows how many years. In order to justify the cost of construction and bond payback, they needed access to the large corporate sector in the south bay. Their thinking was that the corporate sponsorship money that they would be raking in would help pay off the bonds and make the project a worthwhile one.
If the A's were to move to San Jose, the corporate money would most likely go to the local San Jose team as opposed to the Giants and then they would be scrambling to find a way to pay off their stadium for the next decade and a half.
My best guess is that an A's move to San Jose doesn't happen but if it does, the Giants are probably going to ask for the monetary equivalent of what they get from corporate San Jose over the next 15 years as a way of breaking territorial rights. You're probably looking at over $150 million. I don't know if that's in Wolff's range or not.
fansinceday1
Starter
Too bad Haas didn't let the selfish arse Giants move to Florida.
Livinthedream
All-Star
"The mayor also said arena giant AEG is still interested in Sacramento."
“They know that we're a good basketball market, as well as a good baseball market,” Johnson said. “We know that we can support not one, but two teams if given the opportunity.”
http://www.fox40.com/news/headlines/ktxl-johnson-hints-at-interest-in-bringing-as-to-sacramento-20120522,0,1960753.story
Mayor doesn't think we have to sacrifice one to get the other. Maybe he's dreaming, maybe he knows something we don't.
“They know that we're a good basketball market, as well as a good baseball market,” Johnson said. “We know that we can support not one, but two teams if given the opportunity.”
http://www.fox40.com/news/headlines/ktxl-johnson-hints-at-interest-in-bringing-as-to-sacramento-20120522,0,1960753.story
Mayor doesn't think we have to sacrifice one to get the other. Maybe he's dreaming, maybe he knows something we don't.
I wouldn't be surprised if Oakland tries to get something done for the A's since the Warriors are leaving for SF and the Raiders may end up leaving for Santa Clara to share the stadium with the 9ers. They should just stay in Oakland IMO because they're been successful there for a long time and have a good fan base. If not then it'd be cool if they moved to Sac as long as we keep the Kings too.
As for day1's comment about "Selfish Arse Giants" I don't really think that's fair. That's their territory and makes them a lot of money that they use to pay back their privately financed park. They would be hurting themselves by giving that up just to help out a guy like Lew Wolff who should probably trying to get something done in Oakland anyway. That'd be pretty dumb IMO.
Kingsfan23
All-Star
Situation is a catch 22 though, who would committ to who first?
Sacramento to building a MLB ready park without knowing the A's would come, or A's committ to Sacramento without knowing a park would ever be ready
Sacramento to building a MLB ready park without knowing the A's would come, or A's committ to Sacramento without knowing a park would ever be ready
I don't get that line of thinking, both teams have been in the bay area for several generations, fans have chosen one or the other, except for the fair-weather bunch who will always pick the better team. Nobody is going to switch allegiances if one team moves a few miles closer to their home or office.
Similar threads
- Sacramento Kings On SI
- Kings News Links
- Sacramento Kings On SI
- Kings News Links
- Locked
- ClutchPoints | Sacramento Kings News
- Personnel moves