Anybody else kind of disturbed that the maloofs have been exposed as frauds?

[PurpleHaze]

Fantasies are not things I deal with, considering the money was there and today's economy apparently had no impact on Thunder Valley's ability to give a million dollars to the Kings.

But why is this "luxury" only held by KJ? He's not the one moving the team. The Maloofs are. Wouldn't they have had the luxury of going to Thunder Valley and saying, "We need your money or else?" months or years ago?

Speaking of "luxury," previously Thunder Valley maintained a luxury box at Kings arena to the tune of $300,000 annual. They also are a heavy advertiser on Kings telecasts and other media owned by MSE. Thus, the Indian tribes latest "gift" arranged by the mayor adds an additional $700,000 towards their overall contribution.

 

[SacTownKid]

C'mon now, if the Maloofs didn't like Sac they'd have been gone long ago. I think they're fed up at this point and in a position financially making a move a major issue, but honestly, they have no reason to back off on the pressure now.

Like I said, I don't doubt that in the back of their minds they figure, "hey, either way we win". Will their reps in Sac and around the league be damaged? Of course, but wasn't it already? Sac is a forgiving community, could turn out to be a great story if it all works out.

 

[Glenn]

Whether they're frauds or not is debatable. They're certainly inept at running a business though and I'm glad they've been exposed in that regard. Hopefully it will start the ball rolling to eventually get rid of them and let Burkle buy the team.

Inept? I don't want to be defending the Maloofs but they made a big splash by getting into a business that was very sensitive to the economy. Then the economy tanked which I doubt anyone on this forum could have predicted. Then their money problems began. I don't know why "exposing " the Maloofs as anything is reason for joy. I would be happier if they were more competent and could have ridden out the recession that did in a lot of people and companies. If they had been bigger, they might have gotten a bail out and everything that has happened since, in this very small part of the world might have turned out differently.

They are guilty of wanting to be the 2nd coming of Donald Trump. I think that is as close to a fact as anything. They wanted their name in lights so took on high profile businesses. Trump went bankrupt about 12 years ago. Is he inept? Is he a fraud? What would we be saying of Trump if he owned the Kings at the time of his bankruptcy?

For some people, these are desparate times and pointing a finger at a few people as being the sole cause of this is ignoring the bigger picture of the economy. If we all were rich, we might still be selling out the arena. We aren't.

I am tired of this trashing and the joy people seem to get at other people's misfortunes. The fact that we are impacted by this is fueling the anger but just because we have chosen the Maloofs as the convenient scapegoat ignores too much.

 

[PurpleHaze]

I agree Glenn. I started a poll couple months back and asked "who was to blame." Out of eight choices Maloofs came in fifth. Sac small-minded problem and dumb local politicians were runaway top choices. Here's the poll:

http://www.kingsfans.com/forums/showthread.php?39954-Who-is-to-blame

 

[Peter_Gibbons]

Fantasies are not things I deal with, considering the money was there and today's economy apparently had no impact on Thunder Valley's ability to give a million dollars to the Kings.

But why is this "luxury" only held by KJ? He's not the one moving the team. The Maloofs are. Wouldn't they have had the luxury of going to Thunder Valley and saying, "We need your money or else?" months or years ago?

You can also make the arguement that the money for the CAL programs was always there as well. So why is it that no real donations came until an emergency of them being shut down became reality? The Maloofs are not a public college that provides people with education. They are a for profit business. If they threaten other businesses to sponsor them or else leave, it would truly be only in a fantasy world where they will be successful.

Its ok for a third party like KJ to ask as the mayor. For the guys making the profits themselves to go make that threat and expect to be successful is unrealistic. I assume if you owned a business and the Maloofs themselves said you must give them money for sponsorship or else they'll leave, that you will gladly pay them.

If the Maloofs themselves went straight to businesses in the years past and announce that threat, how would those businesses know if they are just BSing just to get their money? Its only when their wish to move became a proven reality that they know for sure, and hence the emergency factor.

 

[Larry David]

The were born standing on third base. Due to several decisions, they are at best limping around on second. Would I like to have their money, yes? Do they still sit on a ton on Wells Fargo money ... yes. Are any of their businesses doing well, no. They aren't making money and cash appears to be very short.

They had a nice little casino, the Fiesta .... the turned it into the Palms ... and then ran it right into the ground.

Palms Place broke ground in 06 and opened in 08. By 06, there were a lot of people who know that Vegas real estate was risky, and condos would be the hardest hit. This is a town that had a 10 year slump in the late 80s and 90s. I think the "nobody could see this coming" act with the Palms fails to hold water.

They got the Kings going, priced out many die hard fans, waited too long to rebuild, and ran that business into the red.

Expanded beer and then sold most likely before that money was recovered (more on that above).

The Monarchs and several risky LA media project ... closed.

I think its fair to say they aren't good business people.

 

[Peter_Gibbons]

Inept? I don't want to be defending the Maloofs but they made a big splash by getting into a business that was very sensitive to the economy. Then the economy tanked which I doubt anyone on this forum could have predicted. Then their money problems began. I don't know why "exposing " the Maloofs as anything is reason for joy. I would be happier if they were more competent and could have ridden out the recession that did in a lot of people and companies. If they had been bigger, they might have gotten a bail out and everything that has happened since, in this very small part of the world might have turned out differently.

They are guilty of wanting to be the 2nd coming of Donald Trump. I think that is as close to a fact as anything. They wanted their name in lights so took on high profile businesses. Trump went bankrupt about 12 years ago. Is he inept? Is he a fraud? What would we be saying of Trump if he owned the Kings at the time of his bankruptcy?

For some people, these are desparate times and pointing a finger at a few people as being the sole cause of this is ignoring the bigger picture of the economy. If we all were rich, we might still be selling out the arena. We aren't.

I am tired of this trashing and the joy people seem to get at other people's misfortunes. The fact that we are impacted by this is fueling the anger but just because we have chosen the Maloofs as the convenient scapegoat ignores too much.

Right. I agree that the Maloofs do like the fame that comes with owning a sports team, a casino as well as being in the entertainment biz. Its apparent as you see them getting into as many MTVs as they can. But its a stretch to say that they are frauds because they didn't try to get the money that was always there for them before this whole moving thing. Its not easy for anyone right now. Even big corporations like ebay had layoffs. Universities and many other public facilities such as libraries and even hospitals are being shut down because of the lack of funding. Unless there is some emergency, people don't want to open their wallets. Even then, don't bet on it.

 

[Section 101]

C'mon now, if the Maloofs didn't like Sac they'd have been gone long ago. I think they're fed up at this point and in a position financially making a move a major issue, but honestly, they have no reason to back off on the pressure now.

Like I said, I don't doubt that in the back of their minds they figure, "hey, either way we win". Will their reps in Sac and around the league be damaged? Of course, but wasn't it already? Sac is a forgiving community, could turn out to be a great story if it all works out.

The bond agreement had a 10 year guarantee that the team stays. The earliest they could have moved was the 08/09 season.

 

[Gary]

I said that they did not leave money on the table that was EASILY obtained. I know that because many many colleges and businesses are struggling. The numbers don't lie. Most people are struggling to maintain, thats not a myth.

Check how many schools have cut classes, cut staff, charge higher tuition. Sports being cut is one thing, many schools can't even operate their normal educational curriculum. Most universities' endowments have been way down. Donations slow almost to a halt.

Whether the Maloofs are good businessmen is one thing. To think there is easy money out there is ridiculous.

So then you DON'T know and are assuming.. You have no idea how hard they tried to get sponsors, or if they tried at all.

 

[Gary]

Speak a language we can all understand unless you care not to communicate. I'll bet the majority of people in this area liked the Maloofs until 2 months ago.

Not me, but that was a given

 

[Gary]

C'mon now, if the Maloofs didn't like Sac they'd have been gone long ago. I think they're fed up at this point and in a position financially making a move a major issue, but honestly, they have no reason to back off on the pressure now.

Like I said, I don't doubt that in the back of their minds they figure, "hey, either way we win". Will their reps in Sac and around the league be damaged? Of course, but wasn't it already? Sac is a forgiving community, could turn out to be a great story if it all works out.

The lease meant they really couldn't leave from what I had understood.. If I am wrong forgive me.

 

[RookieOfTheDay]

C'mon now, if the Maloofs didn't like Sac they'd have been gone long ago. I think they're fed up at this point and in a position financially making a move a major issue, but honestly, they have no reason to back off on the pressure now.

Like I said, I don't doubt that in the back of their minds they figure, "hey, either way we win". Will their reps in Sac and around the league be damaged? Of course, but wasn't it already? Sac is a forgiving community, could turn out to be a great story if it all works out.

People are always saying this. I think it's wrong. They couldn't have just packed up and left at any time even if they'd wanted to. They needed a viable alternative. When they didn't have one, they were "loyal" to Sacramento. But as soon as one stepped up and made them a serious offer, they jumped on it like flies on ****.

 

[RookieOfTheDay]

Speak a language we can all understand unless you care not to communicate. I'll bet the majority of people in this area liked the Maloofs until 2 months ago.

Not me. I never liked them after they fired Rick Adelman and their cheapo ways over the last season made me like them even less..

 

[est.1999]

I find it funny how no one responded to Glenn's post with the Trump comparison. Maybe because they couldn't. Owned.

 

[Larry David]

I find it funny how no one responded to Glenn's post with the Trump comparison. Maybe because they couldn't. Owned.

I didn't respond because it was dumb. Trumps businesses have made a combined profit over the past five years. Overall, the maloofs are gushing red ink. Trump has a track record of growing, creating and running many businesses over they years. He got over leveraged and went into bankruptcy with a plan going forward. The maloofs were given a huge pile of money. The bought and started some businesses that either failed or they run deep into the red. The kings have been run the best, other than the beer, and they have been poorly run.

You can't compare a guy with business skills who got into trouble with his debt to people blowing money they were given with a string of bad ideas and moves

 

[Larry David]

You can't just just say they both had money problems, thus they are similar. Both Rick and emuss were fired by the kings and nobody would say both are good at coaching. Rick and don have proved they know what they are doing

 

[TehSwimGuy]

Speak a language we can all understand unless you care not to communicate. I'll bet the majority of people in this area liked the Maloofs until 2 months ago.

Well, I speak in a pretty basic language. You can understand it with a basic college degree...and if you don't, I don't really care much to communicate with you. Don't start this.

 

[Glenn]

Well, I speak in a pretty basic language. You can understand it with a basic college degree...and if you don't, I don't really care much to communicate with you. Don't start this.

Wow! Good for you and your college education. I am not sure that the numbers of people with an education like yours will be found here. I certainly don't have your education. If you don't care to communicate with all the members of this forum, that is your business. This was just a word of advice which of course you do not have to take.

 

[ArcoKings]

If ALL of the casinos in Las Vegas were raking in the bucks MINUS the Palms then I would agree that the Maloofs are inept. Do you guys even know how many casinos in Las Vegas are struggling? Planet Hollywood was taken over; Hard Rock Cafe owes over $1 BILLION-Four hundred million dollars; the Tropicana BKed; the Sahara will close down in May; MGM Resorts is in heavy debt; Boyd Gaming is in heavy debt; Station Casinos took over troubled Green Valley Ranch (Henderson, NV) and they are also in heavy debt; the Stratosphere is bleeding bad; the Riviera filed for BK; Aliante Station is about to get taken over by TPG Capital; the RIO will be dumped by Caesars Entertainment. These are just a handful of properties that are in trouble and I haven't finished the Las Strip and got started on Fremont Street. City Centre (once the biggest private construction project in the US) ran out of money during construction and was bailed out. (Yeah, I'm a Las Vegas junky. Love that city with passion. The corporations ruined it.) The Palms did not kill the Maloofs it was the Palms Place. Construction started in 2005. Right after that the real estate market collapsed. No way were people going to buy a $700,000 studio/condo [at the Palms Place]. Las Vegas is driven by disposable income and the last thing people spend money on is on gambling when they lose their homes and/or employment. Another thing that will hurt Las Vegas is the increasing gasoline prices. More expensive to drive there and the airlines will also increase their fares. I'm just saying that if everyone in Vegas was rolling in the profits except the Maloofs- something would be wrong. Most of those companies I mentioned above are owned by stock holders and their parent companies are public companies. The Maloofs are independent, a.k.a. mom-and pop. I always root for the small guy. ALWAYS. The Maloofs in 1994 bought the Fiesta Hotel/Casino for $8 million and sold it for $185 million in 2000 to build the Palms. When the Palms opened for business the resort was an instant success. They have had successes and bad times but the human element is to focus on the bad.

 

[Section 101]

If ALL of the casinos in Las Vegas were raking in the bucks MINUS the Palms then I would agree that the Maloofs are inept. Do you guys even know how many casinos in Las Vegas are struggling? Planet Hollywood was taken over; Hard Rock Cafe owes over $1 BILLION-Four hundred million dollars; the Tropicana BKed; the Sahara will close down in May; MGM Resorts is in heavy debt; Boyd Gaming is in heavy debt; Station Casinos took over troubled Green Valley Ranch (Henderson, NV) and they are also in heavy debt; the Stratosphere is bleeding bad; the Riviera filed for BK; Aliante Station is about to get taken over by TPG Capital; the RIO will be dumped by Caesars Entertainment. These are just a handful of properties that are in trouble and I haven't finished the Las Strip and got started on Fremont Street. City Centre (once the biggest private construction project in the US) ran out of money during construction and was bailed out. (Yeah, I'm a Las Vegas junky. Love that city with passion. The corporations ruined it.) The Palms did not kill the Maloofs it was the Palms Place. Construction started in 2005. Right after that the real estate market collapsed. No way were people going to buy a $700,000 studio/condo [at the Palms Place]. Las Vegas is driven by disposable income and the last thing people spend money on is on gambling when they lose their homes and/or employment. Another thing that will hurt Las Vegas is the increasing gasoline prices. More expensive to drive there and the airlines will also increase their fares. I'm just saying that if everyone in Vegas was rolling in the profits except the Maloofs- something would be wrong. Most of those companies I mentioned above are owned by stock holders and their parent companies are public companies. The Maloofs are independent, a.k.a. mom-and pop. I always root for the small guy. ALWAYS. The Maloofs in 1994 bought the Fiesta Hotel/Casino for $8 million and sold it for $185 million in 2000 to build the Palms. When the Palms opened for business the resort was an instant success. They have had successes and bad times but the human element is to focus on the bad.

Wall of text = fail.

location location location = off the strip = fail. Being the biggest casino off the strip was a bad business decision. Better to be the smallest on the strip.

 

[Larry David]

At to Arco Kings post

First, if it's the Palms Place real estate deal that killed the Palms (I agree), not the casino, then I'm not sure the laundry list of casinos in bad shape is consistent with your point.

Second, did you really just say that: (1) Palms Place (which killed the Palms) was a bad project - due to bad prices, at a bad location, in a market that most people had a good idea was very risky at the time; and (2) that doesn't reflect them being bad at business.

I've said several times that the Fiesta was a good move. In fact, places that size can still work in bad times. They decided to roll that profit into a big casino, one off the strip. That's a risky move but OK. Because they wanted to keep total control, the kept the Palms one of Vegas' few privately owned casinos ... a big risk. On top of that, they did Palms Place, when they should have pulled the plug on their plans ... its hindsight, but they've made a lot a bad moves.

And again, it's not like we are looking at just one call on one business. Its a lot of calls in a lot of businesses over a long time, what they opened, what they closed, when they bought, when they held to a bad plan.

They just don't have a good track record.

 

[ArcoKings]

At to Arco Kings post

First, if it's the Palms Place real estate deal that killed the Palms (I agree), not the casino, then I'm not sure the laundry list of casinos in bad shape is consistent with your point.

Second, did you really just say that: (1) Palms Place (which killed the Palms) was a bad project - due to bad prices, at a bad location, in a market that most people had a good idea was very risky at the time; and (2) that doesn't reflect them being bad at business.

I've said several times that the Fiesta was a good move. In fact, places that size can still work in bad times. They decided to roll that profit into a big casino, one off the strip. That's a risky move but OK. Because they wanted to keep total control, the kept the Palms one of Vegas' few privately owned casinos ... a big risk. On top of that, they did Palms Place, when they should have pulled the plug on their plans ... its hindsight, but they've made a lot a bad moves.

And again, it's not like we are looking at just one call on one business. Its a lot of calls in a lot of businesses over a long time, what they opened, what they closed, when they bought, when they held to a bad plan.

They just don't have a good track record.

Yes. I'm not saying the timing was great. They 'gambled' and lost. If they didn't build that thing at all they would be better off now and probably still have the distributorship. I'm assuming that the initial design/idea began two or three years earlier when things were fantastic in Las Vegas. They went ahead with their project and everyone knows the rest. They've been good at the gaming side but the real estate market sunk them.

 

[bajaden]

Not me, but that was a given

Yeah, but your a cranky guy Gary!

 

[Peter_Gibbons]

So then you DON'T know and are assuming.. You have no idea how hard they tried to get sponsors, or if they tried at all.

There is something call common sense in this world. It doesn't take much to know that there is no easy money for sponsorship these days and you'll know if you keep track of whats going on. In my response to MDM, I stated that even colleges have a hard time getting donations and sponsorships. That is a fact. I keep up with the news so I know how the economy is doing and whats happening to businesses and universities in Cali. You can live in denial if you like.

 

[Gary]

There is something call common sense in this world. It doesn't take much to know that there is no easy money for sponsorship these days and you'll know if you keep track of whats going on. In my response to MDM, I stated that even colleges have a hard time getting donations and sponsorships. That is a fact. I keep up with the news so I know how the economy is doing and whats happening to businesses and universities in Cali. You can live in denial if you like.

Not sure if you live in Sacramento or not but it was "balls to the wall" for a lot of people this WHOLE year. Many people knew they had to step up or lose the Kings. My OPINION is that the Maloofs knew they were going to file (or at least try to) so they didn't really bother looking for sponsorship this year. KJ stepped up and said "Ill do the job of your sales staff" and knocked one out of the park. Some probably gave money because of the Kings possibility of leaving, and some probably just ante'd up their normal amount, all the while wondering why they weren't approached by the MSE staff earlier in the year when they normally do. Who knows..

 

[RookieOfTheDay]

If we get past this and get one more year, my biggest fear isn't the Maloof's putting a bad team on the floor on purpose for spite. My biggest fear is that they give zero cooperation to the arena effort for spite. They're likely to be pretty ticked off if they don't get their move approved and I can sooner see them spending next season trying to get a deal done with another city, be it Anaheim or somewhere else than I can see them working with Sacramento on the arena. They'll know this is our final year to get something done so I could see them doing everything in their power to sabotage it because it would be their ticket out of town. I hope they prove me wrong on that but i don't have much faith in them at present.

 

[jalfa]

If we get past this and get one more year, my biggest fear isn't the Maloof's putting a bad team on the floor on purpose for spite.

This I wouldn't worry too much about if I were you. They have to be able to field a somewhat competitive team, if/when they relocate. In order to do that, it would make the most business sense to, at least, sign Sammy and Thornton (sammy because there is hardly any player more suited to play next to cousins, thornton because he's basically awesomeness personified). Not to do that would not only cost them standing in Sacramento and amongst the league, but also in any new market they would want to move into.

 

[RookieOfTheDay]

This I wouldn't worry too much about if I were you. They have to be able to field a somewhat competitive team, if/when they relocate. In order to do that, it would make the most business sense to, at least, sign Sammy and Thornton (sammy because there is hardly any player more suited to play next to cousins, thornton because he's basically awesomeness personified). Not to do that would not only cost them standing in Sacramento and amongst the league, but also in any new market they would want to move into.

I'm not worried about that. Some other folks were though, so that's why i mentioned it.

 

[SacTownKid]

So....how long you think until the accusations come out that the Maloofs intentionally attempted to devalue their franchise and hinder it's own viability by not seeking other streams of revenue and entering into questionable partnerships such as making an agreement with a company like Power Balance in what equates to one of the least lucrative naming rights deals in all of the league?

 

[Section 101]

If we get past this and get one more year, my biggest fear isn't the Maloof's putting a bad team on the floor on purpose for spite. My biggest fear is that they give zero cooperation to the arena effort for spite. They're likely to be pretty ticked off if they don't get their move approved and I can sooner see them spending next season trying to get a deal done with another city, be it Anaheim or somewhere else than I can see them working with Sacramento on the arena. They'll know this is our final year to get something done so I could see them doing everything in their power to sabotage it because it would be their ticket out of town. I hope they prove me wrong on that but i don't have much faith in them at present.

I've brought this up a few times. The Maloofs have shown their cards with the Anaheim lease. If they don't come close to the Anaheim numbers and ask for pie in the sky stuff everyone will know they are being unreasonable.