Are we still thinking of what could have been with these players?

[jiimbob]

Yeah, I’ve never quite understood how he was onto Giannis when his scouting budget had been cut so much. I thought he couldn’t make his European trips anymore. Was he really investing his meager resources in scouting the Greek second or third division?

Yeah, I'm not sure about Petrie's late tenure budget constraints, it wouldn't surprise me though.
I know on my old chat board, Giannis came up in conversation as an intriguing prospect, especially related to physical profile. So he was pretty known, still regardless of what a misfortune PDA was or what a meddler Vivek is, I think Petrie mentioning Giannis as a recommendation after the fact was a silly response to Viveks slandering interview. Most folks would have taken Ben over Giannis at the time.

 

[burekijogurt]

While some are drooling about the 76ers, I'm jealous of Jazz fans. Watching their team is so much fun - and no drama. I can only dream, I guess, of what it would be like to have just one season of fun and basketball without drama and palace intrigue. I guess we still just cannot have nice things. I wonder if there was a second Indian burial ground we didn't know about - this one under G1C.

My bandwagon team is the Celtics. It’s fun rooting for them.

Utah and Boston my favorites as well.... Love the way both of these teams compete and how they play basketball... i mean talk about winning culture...

 

[KingsFanSince85]

meh, i think eventually it would have happened here. His health and weight fluctuation could not have been a good thing for those knees, and i can see that being an issue down the line. Sorry about the confusion, i didn't realize exactly what kind of injury he'd suffered

You obviously don't know what an Achilles injury is. The most fit players in the world get them. Weight fluctuation had nothing to do with it. Most believe the heavy minutes Alvin Gentry was playing him might have played more of a role than anything. The Kings were always careful with his minutes. In the end, it was a freak accident -- like most Achilles injuries. There's absolutely no reason to believe it would have happened in Sac where circumstances were different. His knees played no role in it whatsoever. You're still out in left field on this one.

 

[pdxKingsFan]

You obviously don't know what an Achilles injury is. The most fit players in the world get them.

By the same token - aren't they generally considered a time bomb type injury - Gentry may have been playing him too hard that exacerbated it, but since it's not a contact injury, don't the odds favor that it would have happened sooner or later?

 

[KingsFanSince85]

By the same token - aren't they generally considered a time bomb type injury - Gentry may have been playing him too hard that exacerbated it, but since it's not a contact injury, don't the odds favor that it would have happened sooner or later?

Not necessarily. Increased use of the tendon can certainly weaken it, as would be the case for any tendon or muscle. But there's no way to be sure it was gonna happen regardless. A sudden then consistent increase in PT would be likely to be the cause rather than it was just a ticking time bomb destined to happen no matter what.

 

[pdxKingsFan]

Not necessarily. Increased use of the tendon can certainly weaken it, as would be the case for any tendon or muscle. But there's no way to be sure it was gonna happen regardless. A sudden then consistent increase in PT would be likely to be the cause rather than it was just a ticking time bomb destined to happen no matter what.

I loved him but our failures between 2011-2016 doomed us to life without Boogie either way. Pre-ordaining the injury for me just makes a bitter pill a bit easier to swallow because I could see us locking him down with a super-max and then being doomed to a decade of failure. It's going to take time to right the ship but I think we're still sailing in one direction, of course if we make a head-scratcher draft pick or sign a redundant player this offseason I may lose it.

 

[gunks]

I loved him but our failures between 2011-2016 doomed us to life without Boogie either way. Pre-ordaining the injury for me just makes a bitter pill a bit easier to swallow because I could see us locking him down with a super-max and then being doomed to a decade of failure. It's going to take time to right the ship but I think we're still sailing in one direction, of course if we make a head-scratcher draft pick or sign a redundant player this offseason I may lose it.

Luckily Vlade has never done either of those things! Oh wait. ....

 

[pdxKingsFan]

Luckily Vlade has never done either of those things! Oh wait. ....

I am on board with most everything he did post-Cousins trade. And I think his moves before then were at least sensible considering he was working with a bad hand. The Maloofs and PDA "brain"trust sunk this team. Not Vlade.

 

[gunks]

I am on board with most everything he did post-Cousins trade. And I think his moves before then were at least sensible considering he was working with a bad hand. The Maloofs and PDA "brain"trust sunk this team. Not Vlade.

Papa G and the Hill signing would be a nice example of bad pick and redundant FA aquisition. The Philly trade is indefensible. The Cuz trade was bad.

Waffling on tanking last season was dumb.

Vlade hasn't sunk the team, but I can't help but wonder if a more experienced GM could be doing a better job of getting us out of that Magoof/PDA crater.

Lest I go all in on the Vlade bash, I will happily admit that he's made some decent moves. And even this impatient Kings fan knows that we really need to see what we have in Fox and Giles (our two guys with the highest upside) before I can call for Vlade's head in good conscience.

I think the criticism is going to start rolling in soon if we don't start looking the part of an up and coming team next season! Hopefully the kids serve me up some crow.

 

[pdxKingsFan]

We see things differently, the only complaint I have is the Philly deal but I fully understand why it was done and think it was a gamble that needed to be made IF you wanted to win with Cousins.

 

[Double-K]

While some are drooling about the 76ers, I'm jealous of Jazz fans. Watching their team is so much fun - and no drama. I can only dream, I guess, of what it would be like to have just one season of fun and basketball without drama and palace intrigue. I guess we still just cannot have nice things. I wonder if there was a second Indian burial ground we didn't know about - this one under G1C.

If we are on that road, instead of being jealous of the 76ers, I'd rather be the Celtics. As we all witnessed this post season, having a head coach who'd turn your rather lacking roster into gold is so valuable...

 

[VF21]

If we are on that road, instead of being jealous of the 76ers, I'd rather be the Celtics. As we all witnessed this post season, having a head coach who'd turn your rather lacking roster into gold is so valuable...

They're the effing Celtics. They're never gonna be too far out of the playoffs. Look in their rafters.

 

[gunks]

If we are on that road, instead of being jealous of the 76ers, I'd rather be the Celtics. As we all witnessed this post season, having a head coach who'd turn your rather lacking roster into gold is so valuable...

I'm with you there.

Amazing coach and amazing GM. That tandem should set the Celtics up for a loooooong time.

And even with the injuries, I wouldn't call their roster "rather lacking" (not to take away from your point that Stevens' influence on that team is massive, because it is).

Yeah, I'm pretty jelly of the Cs!

... Hell, I'm jealous of a lot of teams. There aren't a lot of squads we can turn our noses up at as Kings fans. Even those damn dirty scummy Lakers have a better young core than us.

But we can revisit this thread after we win the draft lotto.

 

[kingsboi]

https://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/mo...ms-to-root-for/ss-AAwz7Es?li=BBnba9I#image=26

at least they are number one in something

 

[24 rick barry]

I am on board with most everything he did post-Cousins trade. And I think his moves before then were at least sensible considering he was working with a bad hand. The Maloofs and PDA "brain"trust sunk this team. Not Vlade.

Nuts. Who gave up next years number one pick and for what? That is all on Vlade-and it's a bad move.

 

[pdxKingsFan]

Nuts. Who gave up next years number one pick and for what? That is all on Vlade-and it's a bad move.

It's been beaten to death. The trade was not a very good one but it's defensible to clean up the previous regime's mess in an attempt to win with an all NBA talent the franchise likely wouldn't see the level of again.

 

[24 rick barry]

are you taking into consideration: drafting Cauley Stein, Papa G, and trading Demarcus for less than they could have received days earlier, picking up George Hill for 2 year over pay deal and then dumping him months later, or I almost forgot extending Papa G's contract and then releasing him month later.

 

[burekijogurt]

are you taking into consideration: drafting Cauley Stein, Papa G, and trading Demarcus for less than they could have received days earlier, picking up George Hill for 2 year over pay deal and then dumping him months later, or I almost forgot extending Papa G's contract and then releasing him month later.

I am still not sure why everyone thinks signing/trading Hill is such a bad move. what do people consider to be benefits/drawbacks of that move? here is how i look at it:

benefits:

second round draft pick
shump's expiring contract
some mentoring?

drawbacks:

monetary cost of the move(money paid to him and shumpert)
taking minutes away from young guys before he got traded?
opportunity cost of doing something else instead?

are the drawbacks that bad compared to benifits?

 

[VF21]

It's been beaten to death. The trade was not a very good one but it's defensible to clean up the previous regime's mess in an attempt to win with an all NBA talent the franchise likely wouldn't see the level of again.

Hear, hear.

 

[Capt. Factorial]

...or I almost forgot extending Papa G's contract and then releasing him month later.

I know I'm just screaming at the wind here, but:

1) A player's third-year option must be picked up after one year (and a sophomore training camp) of action. It is not necessarily easy to fully evaluate a player in that short amount of time, leading to...
2) It is generally prudent to pick up a player's third-year option unless there is a clear reason not to. Development arcs are not necessarily clear and the price tag on the contract is generally low. For instance, PapaG's third-year would have been less than 150% of the league minimum for a player with his experience. The vast majority of players selected in the first round have their third-year options picked up - it is routine.
3) At the time that we picked up the contract option, we did not know that we would be making a trade that would require us to cut a player. In fact, depending on whose account of the trade you believe, we originally included PapaG in the trade but Cleveland either forgot or (intentionally?) reneged on that aspect of the deal after the main parts were publicly announced, forcing us to cut a player when they refused to take him.

Bottom line, we cannot be expected to have a crystal ball to tell us to avoid a prudent move at the time because unknown future circumstances will change the prudence of that move. Had the Hill trade not been constructed as it was, it is likely, even probable, that PapaG would still be a King (or, had Cleveland held up their end of the bargain, a Cavalier).

Complaining about picking up PapaG's third-year option while criticizing the Kings' Front Office is like calling Steve Buscemi funny-looking and citing the color of his socks as evidence in favor of that proposition.

 

[kingsboi]

Nuts. Who gave up next years number one pick and for what? That is all on Vlade-and it's a bad move.

for what? well considering that Vlade inherited the team with a franchise player in his prime in Cousins, I don't think he was looking two years in advance about a draft pick because he thought they may make a playoff push, making the draft pick moot anyway. He tried throwing vets around Cousins but the matches didn't fit and all the different head coaches and playbooks eventually took a toll on Cousins so I don't necessarily blame Vlade for trying to win with Cousins, he simply didn't and doesn't know how to field a winner until proven otherwise and now the Kings are at base one again trying to find the next Cousins type of talent.

 

[BeerNerd916]

The only “what might have beens” that I used to wonder about were

- What if PDA took Petrie’s recommendation and drafted the Greek Freak
- What if the Kings didn’t knife coach Malone
- What if the Kings kept IT at that reasonable price

Of all the wrong moves the franchise has made, those are the 3 I question the most. If I was a betting man I would bet that there wouldn’t have been a flow on effect of trading DMC and Kings would be in the playoffs as we speak.

This!!! Those couple/few years Mr. Thinks 2 steps ahead was running things set the franchise back 3+ years easily. The 'best' thing he accomplished was trading for Gay and even that move I sorely question. Drafting McLemore and Stauskus in consecutive years was absolutely DREADFUL.

 

[pdxKingsFan]

At least people had high hopes for McLemore. Or maybe it was because Thrift Store was still a meme. But Stauskas was the super head scratcher.

 

[BeerNerd916]

I am still not sure why everyone thinks signing/trading Hill is such a bad move. what do people consider to be benefits/drawbacks of that move? here is how i look at it:

benefits:

second round draft pick
shump's expiring contract
some mentoring?

drawbacks:

monetary cost of the move(money paid to him and shumpert)
taking minutes away from young guys before he got traded?
opportunity cost of doing something else instead?

are the drawbacks that bad compared to benifits?

Hill was a half year rental that turned into what you posted. We had to hit the salary floor. It was a treadmill move. No harm, no foul. To get upset about it is splitting hairs.

 

[BeerNerd916]

They're the effing Celtics. They're never gonna be too far out of the playoffs. Look in their rafters.

Not too sure what this means. Their banners have nothing to do with their current team and fortunes/success. Danny Ainge is a smart, shrewd and probably the most successful front office head in the past few decades. His pick for a coach and ability to retool on the fly is in a class in and of itself.

This post seems to take a lot of credit away from what that man has done just to place the success in the franchise and that is 100% wrong to do. Danny Ainge is the MAN.

 

[jcassio]

Are we still thinking of what could have been with these players?
Uh, no.

 

[kingsboi]

Not too sure what this means. Their banners have nothing to do with their current team and fortunes/success. Danny Ainge is a smart, shrewd and probably the most successful front office head in the past few decades. His pick for a coach and ability to retool on the fly is in a class in and of itself.

This post seems to take a lot of credit away from what that man has done just to place the success in the franchise and that is 100% wrong to do. Danny Ainge is the MAN.

keep in mind also that Ainge has been with the franchise since 2003, so stability goes a long way in these type of situations especially as you accumulate talent and learn the tricks of the trade that is being a GM

 

[pdxKingsFan]

What qualifies Ainge to be a GM? He was just a mediocre journeyman.

- Kings fans in some alternate universe.

 

[VF21]

Not too sure what this means. Their banners have nothing to do with their current team and fortunes/success. Danny Ainge is a smart, shrewd and probably the most successful front office head in the past few decades. His pick for a coach and ability to retool on the fly is in a class in and of itself.

This post seems to take a lot of credit away from what that man has done just to place the success in the franchise and that is 100% wrong to do. Danny Ainge is the MAN.

I'll rephrase.

The team in question has obviously found a way over their many years of success to "turn their rather lackluster roster into gold" time and time again.

 

[24 rick barry]

This!!! Those couple/few years Mr. Thinks 2 steps ahead was running things set the franchise back 3+ years easily. The 'best' thing he accomplished was trading for Gay and even that move I sorely question. Drafting McLemore and Stauskus in consecutive years was absolutely DREADFUL.

If the owner says Jimmer, the GM says Jimmer. and we know that the owner said he would select "Stauskus" then the GM says Stauskus