Andrei Kirilenko

[VF21]

Ok so your argument saying we can get top notch free agents is vlade divac? Ok I will let that simmer in itself for a bit. Either way ak not coming. If so I will GLADLY eat crow RAW.

Dude, JUST STOP. If you don't want to participate in the discussion, skip the stupid thread. It's not up to you to prevent people from getting their hopes dashed. They're Kings fans. They're used to disappointment. It comes with the territory.

I'm trying to be nice about this, but I'm serious. Knock it off. Thanks.

 

[rainmaker]

I don't know about this. How many options does he REALLY have? How many contenders have the cap room to sign him AND a starting SF spot... or a starting anything spot. He wants to start, right?

In the east, Chicago, Miami, Indiana, Boston, New York, and Philly all have SF locked up. That leaves .. Orlando, Milwaukee, Atlanta, and a bunch of other garbage teams as options for him. Orlando MIGHT have some cap room if they deal Dwight Howard, but then they would have less talent then we do. Atlanta doesn't have any cap room. I suppose the Bucks could be a threat. I'll just keep going .. Toronto won't have any room if they sign Nash. The Pistons have no room and they have Prince. The Nets have room, but they are up to other stuff. Cleveland could be an option. Washington just traded for a similar player in Ariza.

East options: Bucks, Orlando (if they deal Howard), Atlanta (if they deal Johnson), Nets (if they don't do anything they are reportedly trying to do), and Cleveland.

In the West, Spurs will have no room once they sign Duncan, and they have Leonard. OKC is a no. Lakers have no cap room. Memphis has Gay and no room. Clippers just traded for Odom and have Butler. Denver has Chander and Gallo. Utah has Hayward and not enough cap room, but I'll give them a maybe. I'll give Houston a maybe, but they have Parsons. Phoenix is possible, but they have Dudley on a good contract. Portland is possible if they lose Batum AND don't get Hibbert. Minni just traded for Budinger, and have offered Batum a big deal. Golden State is a no, and New Orleans is possible.

West Options: Utah (maybe), Houston (maybe), Phoenix, Portland (maybe), and New Orleans.

I think we have a good chance IF we put the money up AND we go after him early. A lot of these 'maybe' teams have a lot of other stuff going on that are making cap holds, where if we went after AK before the dust settles we may have an advantage.

That's the thing, we didn't have all this money in Dec which we don't now, and we were in discussions with AK then. In Dec the entire league could ahve gone after him yet it doesn't look like many did, and if reports are to be believed, it was down to us, NY and Russia. Well, he's now leaving CSKA, and NJ just signed a SF to a 40M deal, and are hard after Joe Johnson and Luis Scola, not to mention resigning Brooks, offering a max to DWill and targeting Eric Gordon.

People can say well a contender will just swoop in and offer him a decent deal, yet they could have done that 6 months ago, and none did. This sign and trade scenario is interesting with Utah as well as it could be less of a cap hit if we did trade with them and sent some pieces back. They also just got Mo Williams, extended Tinsley, and have 4 PG's on their roster, meaning it's pretty likely they're looking for someone to take Devin Harris off their books, and he might not be that bad of a fit for us. So sign and trade AK to us and get rid of Harris as well, and maybe they can get a guy like MT out of it. Add in Jimmer who I think they'd take the risk with due to marketing purposes. Who knows. There's a number of trade which have happened in this league which make you scratch your head. I never thought Atl would be able to move Joe Johnsons contract yet it seems they will, to NJ.

It's not likely obviously, but would it have been likely in Dec when looking at the landscape of the league that us and NJ would have been AK's final choices? No, and yet there we were.

 

[andjel]

Ok so your argument saying we can get top notch free agents is vlade divac? Ok I will let that simmer in itself for a bit. Either way ak not coming. If so I will GLADLY eat crow RAW.

Nope.
My argument is that you seriously undervalue Divac and that you forgot that SAR Kings got had only one leg.

Otherwise I do not know anyone who is claiming that it is easy to get free agents here, luckily we are not looking for all-stars.

 

[Capt. Factorial]

This sign and trade scenario is interesting with Utah as well as it could be less of a cap hit if we did trade with them and sent some pieces back.

Actually, the NBA closed that loophole in the current CBA - if the player didn't play with your team at the end of the most recent season, you can't sign and trade him even if you have his rights. AK47 was on CSKA last year, so no possibility of a sign and trade exists.

 

[Entity]

Nope.
My argument is that you seriously undervalue Divac and that you forgot that SAR Kings got had only one leg.

Otherwise I do not know anyone who is claiming that it is easy to get free agents here, luckily we are not looking for all-stars.

Nooooo don't get me wrong. Divac was a much better player in Sacramento than SAR could dream of. The Whole point that nobody is getting was the day we signed divac as a free agent he wasn't a huge name. How that has been misconstrued as me saying was nothing here is your own unwillingness to accept we have never had anything more than an middle of the pack free agent signing.

 

[rainmaker]

David Locke: If this Joe Johnson deals go through coupled with G Wallace I would think door has closed on Kirilenko to the Nets

Chris Broussard: Sources confirm Hawks and Nets have agreed to terms on deal to send Joe Johnson to Nets. Deal contingent on Deron Williams staying w/Nets

@Capt, thanks. Good to know.

 

[Entity]

Hey brick would ak be enough of a rim protector to bolster that aspect of our defense?

 

[Bricklayer]

Hey brick would ak be enough of a rim protector to bolster that aspect of our defense?

That would be my plan.

Not ideal -- Utah was not a great defensive team tryign to do that with Okur and Boozer and AK in years past. But I think Cousins is potentially much more disruptive than Okur, and Robinson won't rebound any better than Boozer, but should give a better effort. And in any case, if we bring back Jaosn making the SF the shotblocker is the best we can do. I could certainly live with it at this stage in our development. Would be running out of excuses for still being bad defensively.

 

[Section 101]

David Locke: If this Joe Johnson deals go through coupled with G Wallace I would think door has closed on Kirilenko to the Nets

Chris Broussard: Sources confirm Hawks and Nets have agreed to terms on deal to send Joe Johnson to Nets. Deal contingent on Deron Williams staying w/Nets

@Capt, thanks. Good to know.

They are saying its a done deal now. No longer contingent on Williams staying.

 

[Tetsujin]

They are saying its a done deal now. No longer contingent on Williams staying.

Yup.

Williams
Johnson
Wallace
and no big men whatsoever.

 

[vikinginferno]

That would be my plan.

Not ideal -- Utah was not a great defensive team tryign to do that with Okur and Boozer and AK in years past. But I think Cousins is potentially much more disruptive than Okur, and Robinson won't rebound any better than Boozer, but should give a better effort. And in any case, if we bring back Jaosn making the SF the shotblocker is the best we can do. I could certainly live with it at this stage in our development. Would be running out of excuses for still being bad defensively.

Why wouldn't Robinson rebound any better than Boozer? Rebounding is one of, if not the, best parts of Robinson's game. He might not put up amazing rebounding numbers simply because he will be next to Cousins, but he will be an extremely good rebounder. Cousins and Robinson with a couple of years of experience is miles ahead of Okur/Booz in terms of defense and rebounding.

 

[macadocious]

Looks like Marvin Williams to Jazz for Devin Harris. Makes it less likely they go after AK.

 

[bajaden]

Why wouldn't Robinson rebound any better than Boozer? Rebounding is one of, if not the, best parts of Robinson's game. He might not put up amazing rebounding numbers simply because he will be next to Cousins, but he will be an extremely good rebounder. Cousins and Robinson with a couple of years of experience is miles ahead of Okur/Booz in terms of defense and rebounding.

Yeah, I have to agree. I think people tend to lump players according to their height, or the percieved image of most players that height. Robinson is a terrific rebounder, just as Cousins was at Kentucky. And like Cousins he played with the big boys. If there is one thing that generally translates from college to the pro's its rebounding. I might add, that Robinson is a much better athlete than Boozer is. As a matter of fact, I can't wait to see Boozer trying to guard Robinson.

 

[Section 101]

Yeah, I have to agree. I think people tend to lump players according to their height, or the percieved image of most players that height. Robinson is a terrific rebounder, just as Cousins was at Kentucky. And like Cousins he played with the big boys. If there is one thing that generally translates from college to the pro's its rebounding. I might add, that Robinson is a much better athlete than Boozer is. As a matter of fact, I can't wait to see Boozer trying to guard Robinson.

Rebounding is the best stat that translates from college to NBA. He will be a boarder no doubt.

 

[Bricklayer]

Why wouldn't Robinson rebound any better than Boozer? Rebounding is one of, if not the, best parts of Robinson's game. He might not put up amazing rebounding numbers simply because he will be next to Cousins, but he will be an extremely good rebounder. Cousins and Robinson with a couple of years of experience is miles ahead of Okur/Booz in terms of defense and rebounding.

Yes yes and Jimmer is going to light up the league. Heard it before. But my point was simply that Robinson will not rebound any better than Boozer...because Boozer was one of the best rebounders in the entire league, and basically an 11 reb a game guy during his time in Utah. TRob would do well to even get into that ballpark, and being paired with Cousins makes it virtually impossible he would do any better unless he's Rodman.

 

[vikinginferno]

Yes yes and Jimmer is going to light up the league. Heard it before. But my point was simply that Robinson will not rebound any better than Boozer...because Boozer was one of the best rebounders in the entire league, and basically an 11 reb a game guy during his time in Utah. TRob would do well to even get into that ballpark, and being paired with Cousins makes it virtually impossible he would do any better unless he's Rodman.

Oh come on. You know an elite rebounder in a major college conference is much different than a dynamite scorer in a much lesser conference. Rebounding is one of the skills that transfers the best from college to the NBA. No one expected Jimmer to light up the league. That is simply not a good comparison. Looking back at it, Boozer had been a bit of a better rebounder than I remembered. Still, you have to remember he was rebounding next to Mehmet freaking Okur, a 7 rebound per game guy. The amount of rebounds you get doesn't determine exactly how good of a rebounder you are. Next to Cousins, T-Rob likely won't put up 11-12 rpg averages. If he was playing next to Okur, I am positive he would at least be able to get to Boozer's averages and likely eclipse them. Again, the amount of rebounds you get doesn't necessarily determine how good of a rebounder you are.

 

[Bricklayer]

Next to Cousins, T-Rob likely won't put up 11-12 rpg averages. If he was playing next to Okur, I am positive[/red] he would at least be able to get to Boozer's averages and likely eclipse them.

Yes, and probably leap tall buildings while he's at it. The normal wild enthusiasms around here going at it again. We drafted a strong college rebounder. Not a revolutionary one, but a very strong one. Historically that gives the guy a good chance to be a good NBA rebounder. But no, our somewhat undersized strong college rebounder is now guaranteed of being better than this:

Here was Boozer during that stretch:

09-10: Rebs: Rebs/48: 15.7 NBA rank: 5th (Howard, Camby, Dalembert, Blair)
08-09: Rebs: Rebs/48: 15.4 NBA rank: 7th (Howard, Pryzbilla, Love, Murphy, Dalembert, Lee)
07-08: Rebs: Rebs/48: 14.3 NBA rank: 20th (numerous)
06-07: Rebs: Rebs/48: 16.3 NBA rank: 5th (Mutumbo, Chandler, Foster, Camby)

Utah btw was one of the best rebounding teams of that era, ranking in reb differential 06-07: 1st; 07-08: t3rd; 08-09: t12th; 09-10: 5th. Meaning Boozer wasn't scooping up loose rebounds left laying there by weakling teammates. He was basically the best PF rebounder in the league before Love emerged.

So I stand by my statement. Good rebounder or not, TRob is not going to be better than Boozer was over those years with AK, and the general point of that statement was that even if we got AK to back up our non-shotblocking frontline, its an imperfect solution that still did not result in a great defensive team even under a hardnosed coach like Sloan.

 

[vikinginferno]

Yes, and probably leap tall buildings while he's at it. The normal wild enthusiasms around here going at it again. We drafted a strong college rebounder. Not a revolutionary one, but a strong one. Historically that gives the guy a good chance to be a good NBA rebounder. But no, our somewhat undersized strong college rebounder is now guaranteed of being better than this:

Here was Boozer during that stretch:

09-10: Rebs: Rebs/48: 15.7 NBA rank: 5th (Howard, Camby, Dalembert, Blair)
08-09: Rebs: Rebs/48: 15.4 NBA rank: 7th (Howard, Pryzbilla, Love, Murphy, Dalembert, Lee)
07-08: Rebs: Rebs/48: 14.3 NBA rank: 20th (numerous)
06-07: Rebs: Rebs/48: 16.3 NBA rank: 5th (Mutumbo, Chandler, Foster, Camby)

Utah btw was one of the best rebounding teams of that era, ranking in reb differential 06-07: 1st; 07-08: t3rd; 08-09: t12th; 09-10: 5th. Meaning Boozer wasn't scooping up loose rebounds left laying there by weakling teammates.

So I stand by my statement. Good rebounder or not, TRob is not going to be better than Boozer was over those years with AK, and the general point of that statement was that even if we got AK to back up our non-shotblocking frontline, its an imperfect solution that still did not result in a great defensive team even under a hardnosed coach like Sloan.

Alright, well we will have to agree to disagree here then. I think Robinson will be at the level of Boozer in terms of rebounding and possibly better. Obviously, you think that is his ceiling.

Robinson put up better rebounding #s in college for sure. In his junior year, Boozer put up 14.7 rebounds/48. Robinson put up 18 rebounds/48 his junior year. Sophomore year, Boozer put up 12.2/48 while Robinson put up 21/48. You really think it is that surprising to think that he can move on to be a better rebounder considering he was definitely a better rebounder in college?

I'm not sure what "somewhat undersized" has to do with rebounding considering many of the top rebounders that have been around the league are at least "somewhat undersized". Being slightly undersized can be beneficial with rebounding, ESPECIALLY when you have a freakish 7'4" wingspan to go along with it that rivals players who are over 7 feet.

Also, if you think I am one of the people who would have "the normal wild enthusiasm", you don't know me well enough.

 

[Gilles]

Thing is Kings had 70.5 def.reb.% and Utah in 09/10 had 75.6% so there definitely were some spare rebounds left on the floor by Kings. And defensive rebounding is Robinson's main strength. Wait, the season before last he was the best offensive rebounder in college. Of course, he didn't play 30mpg so he had a few fouls to spare. He won't get 10 rebounds in 25 minutes and if he does then Cousins is only getting 10 in 33, but there's definitely room for both of them.

 

[steelevt]

howard beck twitter: Nets are using midlevel exception to sign Teletovic to 3-yr deal. Means: 1. they cannot go over $74 mil payroll. 2. Can't use MLE for Kidd

info was about kidd, but i guess it would mean all free agents including AK who has been linked to the nets. i figured the wallace signing put an end to AK to nets rumor but still saw people mentioning it. i would think nets hitting the hard cap would almost make it impossible

 

[xyrin]

Two things:

1) Nets would only be able to offer the vet minimum to AK47 if he were to play there, since they already used their MLE on Teletovic.
2) Jazz traded Devin Harris for Marvin Williams, so it appears they want him to be the starting SF for their squad.

Both of these developments makes it much more possible for AK47 looking for a team with cap space to sign for. Enter the Sacramento Kings.

Come on Maloofs, make the right move.

 

[Dime Dropper]

Random note: Teletovic could end up being a very good player! Thing is, he doesn't have much time to adjust as he's not a kid anymore... Still, very good shooter, big, decent/solid (probably at best) rebounder, decent athlete. He's a smart player. Don't think I ever heard about him being discussed in NBA terms but he can play. Will be interesting to see how he does with the Nets.

Anyway, yes, the door is slightly more open for Kirilenko now. And he makes the most sense out of everyone on the FA list. Doesn't solve all our problems, but fills our biggest need with exactly what we need. Also chips in with covering up other weaknesses. The best we could hope for at this point, although I am not going to get my hopes up. It's been a long time since we've signed a FA of note.

 

[ESP47]

Alright, well we will have to agree to disagree here then. I think Robinson will be at the level of Boozer in terms of rebounding and possibly better. Obviously, you think that is his ceiling.

Robinson put up better rebounding #s in college for sure. In his junior year, Boozer put up 14.7 rebounds/48. Robinson put up 18 rebounds/48 his junior year. Sophomore year, Boozer put up 12.2/48 while Robinson put up 21/48. You really think it is that surprising to think that he can move on to be a better rebounder considering he was definitely a better rebounder in college?

I'm not sure what "somewhat undersized" has to do with rebounding considering many of the top rebounders that have been around the league are at least "somewhat undersized". Being slightly undersized can be beneficial with rebounding, ESPECIALLY when you have a freakish 7'4" wingspan to go along with it that rivals players who are over 7 feet.

Also, if you think I am one of the people who would have "the normal wild enthusiasm", you don't know me well enough.

He's just saying that Boozer in his prime was an elite rebounder. Saying Robinson is going to be a better than elite rebounder is pushing it. If he can just duplicate Boozer's prime rebounding numbers, he'll be one of the best rebounders in the league. I believe Robinson can be a 10RPG guy, but lets not go overboard before his first game.

It's going to be fun watching Cousins rack up all the offensive rebounds and Robinson rack up all the defensive rebounds. If we can resign JT, we're going to be one of the best rebounding teams out there. Hayes is no slouch on the boards either. I just hope this translates into more buckets for us and less for opposing teams. Hopefully its not just some empty stat we can hang our hat on after another crappy year.

 

[bajaden]

Alright, well we will have to agree to disagree here then. I think Robinson will be at the level of Boozer in terms of rebounding and possibly better. Obviously, you think that is his ceiling.

Robinson put up better rebounding #s in college for sure. In his junior year, Boozer put up 14.7 rebounds/48. Robinson put up 18 rebounds/48 his junior year. Sophomore year, Boozer put up 12.2/48 while Robinson put up 21/48. You really think it is that surprising to think that he can move on to be a better rebounder considering he was definitely a better rebounder in college?

I'm not sure what "somewhat undersized" has to do with rebounding considering many of the top rebounders that have been around the league are at least "somewhat undersized". Being slightly undersized can be beneficial with rebounding, ESPECIALLY when you have a freakish 7'4" wingspan to go along with it that rivals players who are over 7 feet.

Also, if you think I am one of the people who would have "the normal wild enthusiasm", you don't know me well enough.

Boozer and Robinson are exactly the same size in their bare feet. I can't speak for the thickness of the shoes they each wear, but I would assume that their height is very similiar in shoes. Both have excellent standing reach, with Robinson having an advantage in max reach with his vertical max at 35" as opposed to Boozers 28".

 

[bajaden]

He's just saying that Boozer in his prime was an elite rebounder. Saying Robinson is going to be a better than elite rebounder is pushing it. If he can just duplicate Boozer's prime rebounding numbers, he'll be one of the best rebounders in the league. I believe Robinson can be a 10RPG guy, but lets not go overboard before his first game.

It's going to be fun watching Cousins rack up all the offensive rebounds and Robinson rack up all the defensive rebounds. If we can resign JT, we're going to be one of the best rebounding teams out there. Hayes is no slouch on the boards either. I just hope this translates into more buckets for us and less for opposing teams. Hopefully its not just some empty stat we can hang our hat on after another crappy year.

Robinson was the best defensive rebounder in college, and there were plenty of defensive rebounds to be had if you remember all the second chance points other teams had against us. Improving in the defensive rebound part of the game could mean the difference of 4 to 6 pt's a game that other team didn't get, and perhaps 2 to 4 pt's that we did get. That alone could be a swing of 4 to 8 pts a game in our favor, and could mean the difference in winning games we lost last season. Stop giving the other team extra possessions, and your points allowed should go down.

 

[mac]

Can someone tell me who this teletubbyvic guy is? Never heard of him.

 

[ParniValjak]

Can someone tell me who this teletubbyvic guy is? Never heard of him.

Bosnian PF what played in Spain and IIRC was a leading scorer in euroleague before the top 16 phase. He is a stretch 4 with great range and accuracy from beyond the 3pt arc.

http://www.euroleague.net/competition/players/showplayer?pcode=JZJ

 

[rainmaker]

With everything going on in NJ where they can't even offer AK the mid level anymore, and in Utah where they just added Marvin Williams and are very high on Haywood, it'd really be great if we turned all our attention to AK. We were apparently close in Dec, and our two main competitors don't seem to have a real chance right now. We've already made our offer to JT so all we can really do is sit and wait, and I'd also think if JT saw us going after a SF in AK instead of another PF in Anderson it increases the chances he might resign.

Still hopeful. To me it seems there's an opportunity there waiting to be jumped on and both AK and Anderson are probably looking for similar money, so if we're talking to Anderson and willing to pay the 8M+ it would most likely take to get him(with the threat Orl matches), why not just instead concentrate on a player who could help us more than either Anderson or JT imo? And I have no problem meeting with Anderson, just hope we also are hard after AK.

 

[Bricklayer]

With everything going on in NJ where they can't even offer AK the mid level anymore, and in Utah where they just added Marvin Williams and are very high on Haywood, it'd really be great if we turned all our attention to AK. We were apparently close in Dec, and our two main competitors don't seem to have a real chance right now. We've already made our offer to JT so all we can really do is sit and wait, and I'd also think if JT saw us going after a SF in AK instead of another PF in Anderson it increases the chances he might resign.

Still hopeful. To me it seems there's an opportunity there waiting to be jumped on and both AK and Anderson are probably looking for similar money, so if we're talking to Anderson and willing to pay the 8M+ it would most likely take to get him(with the threat Orl matches), why not just instead concentrate on a player who could help us more than either Anderson or JT imo?

this is obviously true. The danger of course is that the Maloofs truly are too broke to be NBA owners and just in complete denial, and see JT and Anderson as an either or contract, and no possibility of another major contract below that at all. That of course would not only cost us AK this year, it would mean we'd be virtually certain to lose either Reke or IT or both next year when they had to be paid. Cousins a year later when he got tired of it.

Any rational even remotely solvent organization can make the AK offer independent of Jason and come in right aroudn the salary cap. Does that describe us however? We talk around this endlessly, but its impossible to know how true it is or not.

 

[ParniValjak]

Kirilenko also has another option that people are not taking into account and that is to remain in Europe. There would be team (including his current team CSKA) lining up to sign up the best player in Europe this last season.

In Europe contracts are calculated differently and there are other perks that come with it. All contracts in Europe are after tax which means if Kirilenko sign on for 3.5million euros per season that is equivalent of a $9million per season contract in USA. Not to mention on top of that, a player of Kirilenko's ilk would get a company funded car and a luxury apartment to live plus all the other perks that he would get from sponsors.

He is a lot more unique position than many other players. He has been in the NBA, proven himself here, was an all-star and outside of winning a ring, there is not a hell of a lot more left for him in the NBA. In Europe he can earn just as much money, be a perennial contender in Euroleague and literally live like a King.