and with the #1 pick in the 2009 NBA draft the Kings select...

Kingster said:
As a Bruin, I wish I could like Collison, but I just can't. I don't think his game translates to the NBA. He plays much slower than his 4.2 speed would suggest. He needs to pound the ball a LOT in order to do his work on the floor. I'm not sold that he's real quick coming off screens either. From what I saw last night, I agree with you on Jrue. He could overpower guards in high school, but he's not going be doing that in the NBA. He needs more seasoning.
Click to expand...

Well, I think a lot of that has to do with the fact that he basically IS their offense. They don't have any post guys, and all they have are shooters and Shipp, who is an ok slasher. They rely heavily on Collison to probe the defense and set guys up while also scoring. And he's been excelling in that role, except for the turnovers, which are a bit of a concern. I really think his game is going to translate. He's got the athleticism, the shooting and the passing. I think he'll go top ten.
 
I've got a few more games under my belt and there's no reason to change my mind that Blake Griffin is the best player in the draft, at this moment in time. USC did everything they could to make sure Griffin didn't beat them. He was tripleteam every time he touched the ball. Sometimes it looked as though the entire USC team was surounding him.

Despite this, he scored 25 points, had at least two blocked shots. Only 6 rebounds, but as I said he was surounded the entire game.

De Rozan had an OK game. Probably his best of the year. Still, it simply wasn't enough to warrant his being picked as high as he's being projected right now. Its a long college season and he may improve as the season goes on, but he's a long way from a player thats an impact player.

Ditto for B.J. Mullens. He's simply lost at times on offense. He rebounded decently, with 9 boards, but a lot of them wern't hard boards. Still, I'll give credit where its due. If he continues to play as is, without much improvement, he needs to stay in college another year. (aka Thabeet)

Speaking of Thabeet, he's starting to look like a legitimate prospect. His offensive game has improved. He still has a ways to go, and you can see a reluctance on the part of his teammates to throw him the ball down low. He's been a beast on the boards and is still blocking shots. He's definitely someone to keep an eye on as the Kings could have a shot at him.

I really like what I've seen from Al Farouq Aminu. He's a super athlete and a very good scorer. What impressed me is his ability to rebound and block shots. He only had 13 pts in the last game but he had 9 boards and 5 blocked shots. Still to early to draw any serious conclusions, but, so far so good.

Ditto for Gani Lawal. 15 out of 20 from the floor for 34 pts to go along with 10 boards. Johnson also had a nice game.

Harden still continues to be Harden, and may be the most complete player in college. He's just a solid no frills no mistakes player.

Looking forward to the week-end. Yummy, more games to watch.
 
For those looking for someone to watch that could be there for our 2nd first round pick. I really like Jordan Hill out of Arizona. He's only played organized basketball for 5 years and he's improved every year.

He still needs work on passing out of the double team and really needs to work on freethrow shooting. But he's an athletic and long 6'10"/6'11" PF/C, that rebounds well and blocks shots. His post game still needs work, but has improved from last year.

He appears to have a natural feel for the game, and has pretty good hands. Besides, with his current hairdo, he could replace Mikkie and no one would no he was gone.:rolleyes:
 
nbrans said:
Well, I think a lot of that has to do with the fact that he basically IS their offense. They don't have any post guys, and all they have are shooters and Shipp, who is an ok slasher. They rely heavily on Collison to probe the defense and set guys up while also scoring. And he's been excelling in that role, except for the turnovers, which are a bit of a concern. I really think his game is going to translate. He's got the athleticism, the shooting and the passing. I think he'll go top ten.
Click to expand...

Last year Collison had a great center to play with. That's not the issue. I don't think he has the great athleticism. I guess that's where we differ. Also, his strange shot makes it difficult for him to come quickly off screens and fire off the move.
 
Collison lacks shot creating ability, pull up ability, mid range game, and finishing ability at the NBA level. He can be a solid role player, but that's about it in my view. He's a Duhon/Watson type.
 
Last edited:
Vlade4GM said:
Collison lacks shot creating ability, pull up ability, mid range game, and finishing ability at the NBA level. He can be a solid role player, but that's about it in my view. He's a Duhon/Watson type.
Click to expand...

Seriously?? I agree with you that he has some maddening finishing problems, but he can score from all over. He's really good at getting to the elbow and either passing it off or faking and going up for a midrange shot. Really disagree with you.

The problem with Duhon and Watson coming into the league was that they couldn't shoot. They never could. They've gotten a bit better in the NBA, but they didn't start with that ability. Collison is a very different type of player. He can shoot the lights out, whether it looks good or not.

I don't think Collison is going to be an elite point guard, and for that I think Brandan Jennings is the last hope in this draft class. But Collison has all the skills to be an upper tier point guard who can bother the good point guards with his defense, and run a team and hit shots from outside. I don't think there's a really accurate comparison player in the league right now. He's kind of like a smaller Chauncey Billups or a better-shooting Brevin Knight. He'll be a starter for years.
 
His release is too slow, he'll be a good set shooter, but I don't see him being an on ball threat; limiting his abilities as a scorer. He'd be a good role playing starter in a half court offense, I just don't see him becoming an effective all around PG.
 
Vlade4GM said:
His release is too slow, he'll be a good set shooter, but I don't see him being an on ball threat; limiting his abilities as a scorer. He'd be a good role playing starter in a half court offense, I just don't see him becoming an effective all around PG.
Click to expand...

His release is a little slower than I'd like, but I think it's more of a Calderon-esque jumper (which is slow but he gets it off fine), rather than something like Rubio's windup and heave. But it's quick enough that he can shoot coming off screens. His game isn't to score big points for himself, but it's the combo of the passing and the shooting that I think will make him solid.
 
nbrans said:
His release is a little slower than I'd like, but I think it's more of a Calderon-esque jumper (which is slow but he gets it off fine), rather than something like Rubio's windup and heave. But it's quick enough that he can shoot coming off screens. His game isn't to score big points for himself, but it's the combo of the passing and the shooting that I think will make him solid.
Click to expand...

So? To be a quality PG, he still has to be a scoring threat. He's not as tall, strong, or creative as Calderon.
 
I watched Harden and Arizona St. take apart Neb. Harden finally had a sub-standard game for him. Only 20 pts on 6 out of 11 shooting. Also had 9 boards and, I think 4 assists. I'm really falling in love with this guy. He just doesn't make mistakes, and after watching last nights Kings game, its a pleasure to watch someone that composed.
 
Vlade4GM said:
So? To be a quality PG, he still has to be a scoring threat. He's not as tall, strong, or creative as Calderon.
Click to expand...

So? What about Rondo and Ford? They hardly had a jump shot at all when they came in the league and they're still effective. Collison is the passer that those guys are, he's just as quick, only he can already shoot better.
 
nbrans said:
So? What about Rondo and Ford? They hardly had a jump shot at all when they came in the league and they're still effective. Collison is the passer that those guys are, he's just as quick, only he can already shoot better.
Click to expand...

The big difference I see between Collison and Ford/Rondo is explosiveness and finishing ability. I think that will make a significant difference.
 
Have to agree with nbrans on this one. I like Collison, and I think he can be a very good PG in the NBA. He has quickness and speed that not even many NBA PGs have. He is a very good defender, and he'll be excellent if we need someone to try to slow down the likes of Paul, Parker etc..

He's money from pretty much everywhere on the floor. Don't expect him to keep up such ridiculous percentages, but they should continue to be good. He's a good distributor, and it's tough on him this year because the Bruins don't have that many weapons this year. I think the biggest thing I like about Darren is that I think he's shown alot of improvement from last year. He looks stronger physically and just more effective, more assertive.

He is not perfect, but I think he has the talent to be the starting PG to a championship team. Ideally, I'd like to get Rubio with our first 1st rounder (if he enters), but if not, I'd love Collison with our later pick (or our first 1st, depending on where we're picking). Any of Collison/Mills/Lawson with our 2nd 1st and I'd be happy (in that order).
 
I had a chance to watch the UCLA game last night. My first extended look at them this year and just the first of many I'm sure. Collison looked decent to pretty good. He's an effective pt guard and a good defender. I'm anxious to see him against a bigger, stronger and just as quick pt guard. Last year he had a problem when ever he came up against someone like that. Rose springs to mind.

Holiday looked pretty good. If I had to choose between Collison and Holiday right now, it would be Holiday. He's a terrific defender, and just as quick as Collison. Obviously, he's also bigger. I would love to see these guys go at each other in practice.

Holiday didn't shoot much, but was, I think, 5 out of 10 and made a couple of three's. He was on the court most of the time with Collison, so he wasn't playing the pt. It didn't matter because I think he still had around 4 or 5 assists and should have had at least 4 more on some sensational passes that he made and the receipient couldn't finnish.

I can't wait to see more of him!
 
bajaden said:
I had a chance to watch the UCLA game last night. My first extended look at them this year and just the first of many I'm sure. Collison looked decent to pretty good. He's an effective pt guard and a good defender. I'm anxious to see him against a bigger, stronger and just as quick pt guard. Last year he had a problem when ever he came up against someone like that. Rose springs to mind.

Holiday looked pretty good. If I had to choose between Collison and Holiday right now, it would be Holiday. He's a terrific defender, and just as quick as Collison. Obviously, he's also bigger. I would love to see these guys go at each other in practice.

Holiday didn't shoot much, but was, I think, 5 out of 10 and made a couple of three's. He was on the court most of the time with Collison, so he wasn't playing the pt. It didn't matter because I think he still had around 4 or 5 assists and should have had at least 4 more on some sensational passes that he made and the receipient couldn't finnish.

I can't wait to see more of him!
Click to expand...

NBA PGs are having trouble against Rose (as I predicted - I always said Rose would be this good), let alone college players. Collison hasn't reached his potential yet, but nevertheless his defense is still excellent.

Holiday didn't do alot to be fair. He definitely has talent, but he took some terrible shots. And I disagree - he is definitely not as quick as Collison. He is quick, but not Collison quick. Nor is he as good a defender. Not saying he won't be in the future or that he won't be the better player but he certainly isn't right now. Collison was alot more impressive against Texas. I also think Collison has the edge when it comes to passing, but I guess that's to be expected when Collison was playing the pt and Jrue was not.

Holiday definitely needs to stay in school for at least another year. He has all the talent but it is not refined. If both Collison and Jrue entered the draft, based on what I've seen so far, I can think of no reason as to why Holiday would be taken ahead of Collison.

That said, when it's all said and done I think Holiday has the bigger potential. Potential is just a word, though.
 
Dime Dropper said:
NBA PGs are having trouble against Rose (as I predicted - I always said Rose would be this good), let alone college players. Collison hasn't reached his potential yet, but nevertheless his defense is still excellent.

Holiday didn't do alot to be fair. He definitely has talent, but he took some terrible shots. And I disagree - he is definitely not as quick as Collison. He is quick, but not Collison quick. Nor is he as good a defender. Not saying he won't be in the future or that he won't be the better player but he certainly isn't right now. Collison was alot more impressive against Texas. I also think Collison has the edge when it comes to passing, but I guess that's to be expected when Collison was playing the pt and Jrue was not.

Holiday definitely needs to stay in school for at least another year. He has all the talent but it is not refined. If both Collison and Jrue entered the draft, based on what I've seen so far, I can think of no reason as to why Holiday would be taken ahead of Collison.

That said, when it's all said and done I think Holiday has the bigger potential. Potential is just a word, though.
Click to expand...

Holiday has a much higher upside. He's just as good of a ball handler, explosive, great defensive tools, high bb IQ, the PG skills are there to develop, and he's a very good shooter. He's going to be a much better shot creator than Collison because he has a quick release and can pull up quick off the dribble unlike Collison. Holiday is exactly what we need, Collison can be a solid half court PG, but that's the end of it.
 
Dime Dropper said:
If both Collison and Jrue entered the draft, based on what I've seen so far, I can think of no reason as to why Holiday would be taken ahead of Collison.

That said, when it's all said and done I think Holiday has the bigger potential. Potential is just a word, though.
Click to expand...

Holiday would likely be taken in front of Collison for the same reason that Westbrook went #4 last year and Collison didn't enter the draft. It may be just a word, but "potential" translates to draft position more often than not.

I'd say Collison is a mid-late first rounder with an absolute ceiling at 10 and a floor around 25, currently jockeying for position with players like Lawson and Mills. Holiday's floor if he comes out this year is probably 15, but I'd expect 5-10 range. And if Westbrook can jump to 4 in a pretty solid draft, I wouldn't be surprised to see Holiday push into the top 5 with a solid season.
 
The difference is that Westbrook was a sophomore and was showing a great deal more on the court than Holiday is currently showing. The difference between Westbrook and Collison wasn't that great. The current gulf between Collison and Holiday is like the Pacific Ocean. Holiday has a lot of potential, sure, but until/unless he turns his season around and starts showing results on the court he's going to have to wait.
 
nbrans said:
The difference is that Westbrook was a sophomore and was showing a great deal more on the court than Holiday is currently showing. The difference between Westbrook and Collison wasn't that great. The current gulf between Collison and Holiday is like the Pacific Ocean. Holiday has a lot of potential, sure, but until/unless he turns his season around and starts showing results on the court he's going to have to wait.
Click to expand...

I don't think the gulf is that great. He's played a total of 7 college games and has led UCLA in scoring three times. By the time the end of the season comes around and he gets the experience under his belt, I'd be surprised if he's not on a par with Collison.
 
Dime Dropper said:
Holiday didn't do alot to be fair. He definitely has talent, but he took some terrible shots. And I disagree - he is definitely not as quick as Collison. He is quick, but not Collison quick. Nor is he as good a defender. Not saying he won't be in the future or that he won't be the better player but he certainly isn't right now. Collison was alot more impressive against Texas. I also think Collison has the edge when it comes to passing, but I guess that's to be expected when Collison was playing the pt and Jrue was not.
Click to expand...

As I said, he only took 10 shots and a couple of them were forced. This is the first time I've had a look at him. You may have an advantage on me if you've seen some other games. But going on just this one game for now, he didn't look all that bad to me. I thought he played pretty good defense. He kept his man in front of him for the most part. I will admit he gambles more than he should, but he did have five steals.

He did make some very nice passes and showed some court vision. At this point I would expect Collison to be better than him just on experience alone. So when I said I would take Holiday over Collison it was purely on potential. I just don't think that Collison is going to get that much better in the NBA, and, might actually regress when he's up against bigger, stronger players almost every night.
 
I'm really liking Lawson. He's been improving in important parts of his game this year. In the same amount of minutes (25/game), his assists are up (6.9/game) while cutting his turnovers in half (1.1/game), his steals are up (3/game) and his 3 pt shooting is up (+50%). I'll be watching him closely.
 
It wasn't a given Rubio was entering this year's draft. He had a wrist injury this year and he just got back, so his stock might not be as high as it could be a year from now.
 
DX has their latest mock up (finally, their last update had been around Haloween!). They're not quite as high on Curry or Thabeet as everyone else so far (ranked 9 and 8, respectively). But of course, it's still early.
 
Curry kind of scares me.

6'3" shooter from a tiny (1700 students) liberal arts college. It's just WAY too GP, and, unless we're trading Kevin, I don't know what we'd do with a rich man's Douby. I'd like someone who fills a need, i.e., someone who plays ANY position but SG.
 
fnordius said:
Curry kind of scares me.

6'3" shooter from a tiny (1700 students) liberal arts college. It's just WAY too GP, and, unless we're trading Kevin, I don't know what we'd do with a rich man's Douby. I'd like someone who fills a need, i.e., someone who plays ANY position but SG.
Click to expand...

I would be reluctant to take Curry with our first pick, especially if its in the one to five range. I think you have to take the surest bet you have when you pick that high. I usually go along with draftexpress and their predictions, but I think Thabeet should be higher than Mullens at this point. I also would have Harden ranked above DeRozan and Mullens. But, as stated, its still early.

As far as Rubio not coming out this year, I would be surprised if he doesn't at least test the waters and find out where he might fall. He might change his mind if he gets the right feedback.
 
I think DX normally tries to predict where they'll rank by the end of the season, not rank how they're doing at the moment.

As far as Rubio goes, he might test the waters but I don't think it's a given he declares. He may not think he's ready yet.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

Y
76ers could acquire $36 million lottery pick via major trade with Kings
Replies
16
Views
1K
See_Hanks
See_Hanks
A
LaVine and DeRozan combine for 80 points in Kings 127-117 win over the Pistons
Replies
0
Views
116
Associated Press
A
twslam07
[Drastic Edition] “THE” Trade Deadline Move to Make…
2
Replies
39
Views
2K
twslam07
twslam07
A
Kings beat Hornets 125-102 to maintain hold on 10th spot in the West
Replies
0
Views
96
Associated Press
A
S
Bold Lineup Change the Sacramento Kings Need to Make
Replies
7
Views
411
ShastaKingsFan
ShastaKingsFan
Back
Top