and with the #1 pick in the 2009 NBA draft the Kings select...

[beb0p]

I think Rubio's situation is different. I don't think he needs to test the water at all - it's a given that he's lottery and one has to realize that unlike college players, Euro guys are getting paid handsomely so there's less financial incentive to rush things. I agree when he said it's more important for him to land in the right team than to land in the higher draft slot. He should stay for at least another year in Europe and I think he will stay to work on his game.

Also, one has to keep in mind that the Euro-based players are not going to stick around if they don't get the minutes. Think Raul Lopez, Monya, Delfino and others like them, if Rubio turns out to not be as ready as many thought, it could turn into another Delfino situation. I actually think it's best for both parties (Rubio and his future NBA team) if he comes over two yrs from now when there's little doubt he's ready for big mins. He can declare next year but stay in Spain to improve his game.

Lastly, there are three teams picking in the high to mid lottery that may need a PG: Sac, Min and GS. I don't know how happy Min is with Randy Foyle at the point or if they will draft a PG but I doubt Rubio wants to play for the Wolves. I don't know if he wants to play for Sac either. But I think if he does declare next year, it will be done with an eye towards playing for Nellie. ...Assuming of course, that Memphis doesn't trade their #1 pick to the Lakers for er, I'm guessing Chris Mihm.

 

[bajaden]

Lastly, there are three teams picking in the high to mid lottery that may need a PG: Sac, Min and GS. I don't know how happy Min is with Randy Foyle at the point or if they will draft a PG but I doubt Rubio wants to play for the Wolves. I don't know if he wants to play for Sac either. But I think if he does declare next year, it will be done with an eye towards playing for Nellie. ...Assuming of course, that Memphis doesn't trade their #1 pick to the Lakers for er, I'm guessing Chris Mihm.

I guess its wishful thinking on my part that he come out this year, since we may have a better chance of getting him than next year. As far as Nellie goes, there's no guarantee he'll even be with the Warriors after this year, and even so, I wouldn't want to play for him. You can go from starting to the end of the bench in a heartbeat with Nellie. As I've stated before, with Nellie its the flavor of the day.

 

[HighFlyingMonkey]

Rubio and Jennings went head to head for the first time yesterday. Although they played a combined 30 minutes (with Rubio only playing 8 because of his injury), there was plenty to discuss.

http://slamonline.com/online/columnists/the-links/2008/12/links-jennings-vs-rubio-round-one/

I didn't see the game personally (I doubt anybody here did), but going off of recaps, I'm inching closer and closer to the Brandon Jennings bandwagon. All of his weaknesses that he showed in high school (defense, half court execution, commitment to teamwork) are going to be hammered in the Euroleagues, and he could become so much better because of it.

Although if Rubio is there, I'd take him over Jennings. Just too special of a talent, already proven he can play at an NBA level (see Olympics), reminds me a lot of Jason Kidd.

 

[HighTopKicks]

Does it matter which type of offense we run, as to which PG is best for us?

Watching the Utah game the announcers talked about Utah making the right choice by taking Williams over Paul. Then this mornings Bee quotes Reggie as saying 80 percent of the time the ball goes thru the HI Post. So, I was wondering, if we continue to run a high post with Hawes, do our pg needs change. Do we need less of a assist type of pg, and more of a great defensive guard that can shot the deep ball?

Anyone?

 

[fnordius]

Does it matter which type of offense we run, as to which PG is best for us?

Watching the Utah game the announcers talked about Utah making the right choice by taking Williams over Paul. Then this mornings Bee quotes Reggie as saying 80 percent of the time the ball goes thru the HI Post. So, I was wondering, if we continue to run a high post with Hawes, do our pg needs change. Do we need less of a assist type of pg, and more of a great defensive guard that can shot the deep ball?

Anyone?

1) Maybe the Utah announcers are homers who don't want to criticize the Jazz front office. Maybe they honestly feel that way, but... I'm just sayin'.

2) For years Brad has been half of our collective PG. Until such a time as Hawes starts averaging 4+ assists a game with low turnovers (Brad's current averages: 4.3 assists, 1.9 TO. Hawes' averages: 1.7 assists, 2.0 TO), I really think we need a pass-first PG. I won't turn down some defensive skills, though.

 

[Vlade4GM]

We need a shot creator more than anything, someone who can create off the dribble for himself and facilitate, someone we can give the ball to at the end of games. Doesn't need to be a big time assist guy, more like a leader who can handle the ball and make good decisions.

 

[wonjaeyou]

We need a shot creator more than anything, someone who can create off the dribble for himself and facilitate, someone we can give the ball to at the end of games. Doesn't need to be a big time assist guy, more like a leader who can handle the ball and make good decisions.

i totally agree. we need someone who can create off shot for himself and kick it out if he get double teamed. This should be our main priority.

 

[Big Cuz 15]

I think Rubio's situation is different. I don't think he needs to test the water at all - it's a given that he's lottery and one has to realize that unlike college players, Euro guys are getting paid handsomely so there's less financial incentive to rush things. I agree when he said it's more important for him to land in the right team than to land in the higher draft slot. He should stay for at least another year in Europe and I think he will stay to work on his game.

Also, one has to keep in mind that the Euro-based players are not going to stick around if they don't get the minutes. Think Raul Lopez, Monya, Delfino and others like them, if Rubio turns out to not be as ready as many thought, it could turn into another Delfino situation. I actually think it's best for both parties (Rubio and his future NBA team) if he comes over two yrs from now when there's little doubt he's ready for big mins. He can declare next year but stay in Spain to improve his game.

Lastly, there are three teams picking in the high to mid lottery that may need a PG: Sac, Min and GS. I don't know how happy Min is with Randy Foyle at the point or if they will draft a PG but I doubt Rubio wants to play for the Wolves. I don't know if he wants to play for Sac either. But I think if he does declare next year, it will be done with an eye towards playing for Nellie. ...Assuming of course, that Memphis doesn't trade their #1 pick to the Lakers for er, I'm guessing Chris Mihm.

why couldn't he declare, get drafted.. stay a year in europe for seasoning then decide to come over? IE, peja stojakovic or rudy fernandez

 

[hrdboild]

i totally agree. we need someone who can create off shot for himself and kick it out if he get double teamed. This should be our main priority.

That's actually the biggest reason I favor Jennings over Rubio (aside from the local connection) -- Jennings can absolutely create his own shot when he wants to. Rubio looks like a preternatural talent at running a half court offense. He can find open players and deliver them the ball. It looks like he tries hard on defense as well, which is why he's thought of so highly. That's a complete PG. But I'm not convinced he can create his own shot against NBA defense. He's a player that makes his teammates better, but he can't take over a game if you need him to. Remember in that Olympic match-up it was Fernandez who was making the big plays down the stretch.

With Jennings his ball handling jumps out at you before his passing does. He moves very well with the ball through traffic and he's got a lot of lift to get to the rim if you give him an opening. He's not strong enough to finish consistently yet once he gets there, but he's already hitting the weights so there's hope there. He's also shown a willingness to be a passer, which puts him firmly in the "genuine PG" camp. He uses his ball handling skills to set up his teammates with easy looks. He's got as much defensive potential as Rubio, but so far he hasn't looked as committed to the idea of playing defense. I think that's the biggest thing to watch for him, whether he turns into a consistent defender over this season.

If we're using the Deron Williams/Chris Paul comparison, I'd say Rubio is Williams and Jennings is Paul. (Keep in mind though what really distinguishes Paul from Williams, not just as a great PG but an MVP candidate, is his competitiveness. I wouldn't give either Rubio or Jennings the edge there at this point. And their first game doesn't show much cause Jennings was playing with a new coach and Rubio's still recovering from injury.)

 

[Vlade4GM]

why couldn't he declare, get drafted.. stay a year in europe for seasoning then decide to come over? IE, peja stojakovic or rudy fernandez

Because then he'll probably drop at least a few spots.

 

[Vlade4GM]

Jennings has to get stronger, he won't be a quality PG on either end until he does. His jump shot isn't there yet either. He has the ball handling, the moves, and the athleticism but until he adds the strength and the jump shot he's not going to be a big enough scoring threat.

 

[hrdboild]

Jennings has to get stronger, he won't be a quality PG on either end until he does. His jump shot isn't there yet either. He has the ball handling, the moves, and the athleticism but until he adds the strength and the jump shot he's not going to be a big enough scoring threat.

True enough, but I have a hard time trying to think of a player who didn't get stronger and improve their jump shot once they got in the league. Both of those just take dedication and a lot of repetitions, which is almost a given for any professional athlete at this level.

 

[HighFlyingMonkey]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wdhniJLflBY

Extended Davidson (Mostly Stephen Curry) highlights against NC State. Good to watch, he has better court vision than advertised and a crafty handle. Though I would worry how his production would translate if he didn't get to take whatever shot he wanted at any time.

Honestly, he reminds me a lot of Bibby. Deceptively quick, solid handle, great shooter, clutch, good not great court vision and creative abilities. He's even got the little crab walk down

 

[Kingster]

Jennings has to get stronger, he won't be a quality PG on either end until he does. His jump shot isn't there yet either. He has the ball handling, the moves, and the athleticism but until he adds the strength and the jump shot he's not going to be a big enough scoring threat.

I haven't seen Jennings play, but imo strength is not the most important thing in a point guard. Sounds like he's got speed and quickness. What kind of vision does he have? What kind of BB IQ does he have? (Beno, for example, just doesn't seem to have it. How many times does the guy have to dribble into a double and triple team to figure it out?) When I look at shooting, I look at free throw percentage. If he's way up in that, chances are his shooting within the game will eventually be pretty good.

 

[Kingster]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wdhniJLflBY

Extended Davidson (Mostly Stephen Curry) highlights against NC State. Good to watch, he has better court vision than advertised and a crafty handle. Though I would worry how his production would translate if he didn't get to take whatever shot he wanted at any time.

Honestly, he reminds me a lot of Bibby. Deceptively quick, solid handle, great shooter, clutch, good not great court vision and creative abilities. He's even got the little crab walk down

If we do pick Curry within the top 7 or 8, then this has got to be the worst draft in 10 years. He is going to be very challenged to get his shot off in the NBA. And unlike at Davidson, he's going to be 3rd and 4th option. Problem is, he's only effective if he has the ball in his hands a lot. I just don't see his upside. Is his shooting going to get better? I doubt it. Maybe it gets better by 5%. Is his quickness or athleticism going to improve. NO. Maybe his vision gets better, but is that going to make him a good creator in the NBA? I doubt it; he just doesn't have the athleticism for it. Instead, give me an athlete whose shot can get better over time, like a Rondo.

 

[SacKings7]

If we do pick Curry within the top 7 or 8, then this has got to be the worst draft in 10 years. He is going to be very challenged to get his shot off in the NBA. And unlike at Davidson, he's going to be 3rd and 4th option. Problem is, he's only effective if he has the ball in his hands a lot. I just don't see his upside. Is his shooting going to get better? I doubt it. Maybe it gets better by 5%. Is his quickness or athleticism going to improve. NO. Maybe his vision gets better, but is that going to make him a good creator in the NBA? I doubt it; he just doesn't have the athleticism for it. Instead, give me an athlete whose shot can get better over time, like a Rondo.

I'm opposed to drafting Curry too, but how do you know this? This completely depends on what team drafts him, and what that team wants him to do and thinks he is capable of doing.

 

[bajaden]

Jennings has to get stronger, he won't be a quality PG on either end until he does. His jump shot isn't there yet either. He has the ball handling, the moves, and the athleticism but until he adds the strength and the jump shot he's not going to be a big enough scoring threat.

No offense intended, but just how do you know this. I spend all my time watching college basketball, and I'm willing to comment on any player I've watched. I try not to read the player bio's on the mock draft's so that I'm not influenced by them. I have yet to see Jennings play, other than youtube, which in my opinion is worthless.

I can appreciate your opinion on his getting stronger, but just how do you know anything about his jumpshot, ballhandling, or anything else about how he plays?

 

[HighFlyingMonkey]

If we do pick Curry within the top 7 or 8, then this has got to be the worst draft in 10 years. He is going to be very challenged to get his shot off in the NBA. And unlike at Davidson, he's going to be 3rd and 4th option. Problem is, he's only effective if he has the ball in his hands a lot. I just don't see his upside. Is his shooting going to get better? I doubt it. Maybe it gets better by 5%. Is his quickness or athleticism going to improve. NO. Maybe his vision gets better, but is that going to make him a good creator in the NBA? I doubt it; he just doesn't have the athleticism for it. Instead, give me an athlete whose shot can get better over time, like a Rondo.

I would not take Curry top 8. Once you start to go around 9th, 10th, or 11th, then I would take him without much hesitation.

Right now my PG wishlist looks like:

1. Rubio (Looking very unlikely)
2. Jennings (probably going to be our range)
3. Curry
4. Holiday
5. Collison

 

[est.1999]

why is evryone so high on rondo? And why is everyone always so bumed we didn't draft him. IMO he wouldn't be half the player he is now if he was on this kings team. Don't get me wrong he's a great player but I think lots of kings fans would dislike rondo if he was on this team.

 

[Vlade4GM]

For those who have nbatv it's Jennings vs. Rubio on right now.

 

[Vlade4GM]

No offense intended, but just how do you know this. I spend all my time watching college basketball, and I'm willing to comment on any player I've watched. I try not to read the player bio's on the mock draft's so that I'm not influenced by them. I have yet to see Jennings play, other than youtube, which in my opinion is worthless.

I can appreciate your opinion on his getting stronger, but just how do you know anything about his jumpshot, ballhandling, or anything else about how he plays?

I've caught a couple games on nbatv.

 

[Vlade4GM]

I haven't seen Jennings play, but imo strength is not the most important thing in a point guard. Sounds like he's got speed and quickness. What kind of vision does he have? What kind of BB IQ does he have? (Beno, for example, just doesn't seem to have it. How many times does the guy have to dribble into a double and triple team to figure it out?) When I look at shooting, I look at free throw percentage. If he's way up in that, chances are his shooting within the game will eventually be pretty good.

I haven't seen enough of him to really judge his IQ and decision making, he isn't really given the ball and told to dominate the game. They play half court sets and focus on moving the ball, he'll take the ball up and facilitate in transition, which he is very good at. His strength will be important if he plans on getting to and finishing at the rim in the nba, or defending adequately. He's an attentive defender (from what I've seen), he doesn't slack off or anything, he stays on his man but looking at him he simply won't be too much more than an on ball defender in the NBA at his frame. He has the length, quickness and will to defend, but he's not holding anyone anywhere with that strength. He had a really hard time getting through screens as well.

Free throw shooting isn't a great barometer for normal shooting ability because it doesn't factor in how quick they can get their shot off and how well they can pull up off the dribble. Jennings has good form and a good release, but he needs to become more consistent with his shot and take smarter shots. These are things that he should be able to overcome with in time.

The euroleague I think will be good for him in a sense that it will make him work on the things that he lacks at, like entry passes, half court sets, and moving without the ball.

 

[Vlade4GM]

why is evryone so high on rondo? And why is everyone always so bumed we didn't draft him. IMO he wouldn't be half the player he is now if he was on this kings team. Don't get me wrong he's a great player but I think lots of kings fans would dislike rondo if he was on this team.

He's been instantly one of if not the best PG defender in the league. He wouldn't be putting up the fg% and assist numbers probably if he weren't on the c's but he's still a quality all around PG, who only lacks in his perimeter shooting. Trust me, we'd like him much more than Douby.

 

[Kingster]

I'm opposed to drafting Curry too, but how do you know this? This completely depends on what team drafts him, and what that team wants him to do and thinks he is capable of doing.

I believe this because he's not a point guard on the one hand, but he needs the rock in his hands in order to be effective on the other hand. He's like a Salmons type player. He needs the rock in his hands, but like Salmons, he's not going to make others better by having the rock in his hands. Sure, he'd be a fine complement to a team that had a very good low post big man. He could stand at the three point line and be very effective, but that doesn't warrant a top 10 pick, much less a top 5 pick.

 

[SacKings7]

I believe this because he's not a point guard on the one hand, but he needs the rock in his hands in order to be effective on the other hand. He's like a Salmons type player. He needs the rock in his hands, but like Salmons, he's not going to make others better by having the rock in his hands. Sure, he'd be a fine complement to a team that had a very good low post big man. He could stand at the three point line and be very effective, but that doesn't warrant a top 10 pick, much less a top 5 pick.

A better comparison would be Monta Ellis. I agree with your post, but its still up to the team that drafts him what to do with him. They may WANT him to have the ball all the time

 

[bajaden]

I haven't seen enough of him to really judge his IQ and decision making, he isn't really given the ball and told to dominate the game. They play half court sets and focus on moving the ball, he'll take the ball up and facilitate in transition, which he is very good at. His strength will be important if he plans on getting to and finishing at the rim in the nba, or defending adequately. He's an attentive defender (from what I've seen), he doesn't slack off or anything, he stays on his man but looking at him he simply won't be too much more than an on ball defender in the NBA at his frame. He has the length, quickness and will to defend, but he's not holding anyone anywhere with that strength. He had a really hard time getting through screens as well.

Free throw shooting isn't a great barometer for normal shooting ability because it doesn't factor in how quick they can get their shot off and how well they can pull up off the dribble. Jennings has good form and a good release, but he needs to become more consistent with his shot and take smarter shots. These are things that he should be able to overcome with in time.

The euroleague I think will be good for him in a sense that it will make him work on the things that he lacks at, like entry passes, half court sets, and moving without the ball.

Having not seen him play, and you have, (note, watch NBA TV) I guess the question is, do you see him as a young player that could evolve into a quality NBA Pt guard. I mean there are ways to get through screens without running right through them. Such as recognizing the screen before running into it.. Chris Paul isn't the biggest guy in the world. Do you see a big enough upside to warrant picking him?

 

[Vlade4GM]

Having not seen him play, and you have, (note, watch NBA TV) I guess the question is, do you see him as a young player that could evolve into a quality NBA Pt guard. I mean there are ways to get through screens without running right through them. Such as recognizing the screen before running into it.. Chris Paul isn't the biggest guy in the world. Do you see a big enough upside to warrant picking him?

He definitely needs some more seasoning defensively just on know-how, but a few times he gets caught in screens and stuck there for too long.

Upside? Tons of upside. He's got great ball handling, quick (explosive blow-by ability), good shooting potential, good vision, and a creative passer. He needs to learn to read the defense better in the half court, improve his shot selection, accuracy on his shot, and get stronger in order to finish against NBA bigs. He has potentially very good finishing ability, it's just once he gets in the NBA he's going to need to be able to finish with contact or it's going to limit his ability as a scoring threat; he's untested as far as that goes with the competition he's facing.

It's really all up to him whether he wants to be a star player, the only thing that he might not be able to control is his frame might not be able to put on much more size. I'd compare him to Felton at this point, but he can be much better. He needs to add more discipline to his game and euroleague is probably good for that, he'll mostly likely always have a bit of wildness in his game though. It'll be interesting if/once he gets more minutes and responsibility on his team as the season advances, he's playing more like a Barbosa role (it seems) at this point. I'd like more proven go-to qualities in who we get as a pg, but he's not a bad guy to end up with at all; considering our luck I'd consider ourselves lucky to end up with a guy with his talent. It ultimately would depend upon who is on the board at the time.

 

[Kingster]

A better comparison would be Monta Ellis. I agree with your post, but its still up to the team that drafts him what to do with him. They may WANT him to have the ball all the time

Ellis Quickness >>>>>>> Curry Quickness

 

[SacKings7]

Ellis Quickness >>>>>>> Curry Quickness

True, but its a better comparison than Salmons

 

[TheRaven]

In case anyone missed it, DraftExpress had a write-up on Rubio that touched briefly on his matchup vs. Jennings. They talked with the coaching staff, took in some practices, and the game vs. Jennings' team. Rubio is coming back from injury and essentially playing with one arm right now though. Rubio reportedly told Jennings he planned on waiting for the '10 draft, but I also read some other reports that said he will still strongly consider declaring for '09.