and with the #1 pick in the 2009 NBA draft the Kings select...

[rhythmless]

i really hope rubio changes his mind and enters this draft...

 

[Vlade4GM]

I think Rubio will be able to hold his own against most PG's, he may not have the best man defense (he'll probably even have some foul trouble at first) but he still has good length, quick hands, good effort, and great anticipation ability. He'll be an excellent team defender and that's more than what you can say about most PG's in the league.

 

[bajaden]

I think Rubio will be able to hold his own against most PG's, he may not have the best man defense (he'll probably even have some foul trouble at first) but he still has good length, quick hands, good effort, and great anticipation ability. He'll be an excellent team defender and that's more than what you can say about most PG's in the league.

I agree with you Vlade. If you look around the league, how many elite pt guard defenders are there. For every team that may have an outstanding defender, there are probably 3 that don't. If you have good interior defense that makes up for a lot out on the permiter. Stick a Mutumbo look alike in there and your pt guard suddenly looks alot better.

 

[bajaden]

I watched the Arizona/Kansas game yesterday. Jordan Hill may be one of the most improved players in the country. He had 23 pts on 11 of 23 shooting. 11 boards and 2 blocks. He looks like he spent the whole off season in the weight room. He just looks more muscled to me.

I know there are those out there that don't like him, but if you haven't seen him play this year, then you need to. This is the fourth time I've seen him this year, and I starting to believe he's the real deal. If he continues to play this well, he may move himself into a top five pick.

 

[rhythmless]

I agree with you Vlade. If you look around the league, how many elite pt guard defenders are there. For every team that may have an outstanding defender, there are probably 3 that don't. If you have good interior defense that makes up for a lot out on the permiter. Stick a Mutumbo look alike in there and your pt guard suddenly looks alot better.

i would concur as well. chris paul, rondo (damn that hurts), kidd in his prime, billups, are the only ones that show consistent man to man defensive pressure. Rubio can be a good man to man defender. The only place I would worry about him is down in the post, but he has good length such that only a few large physical pgs can really take advantage of his lankiness.

 

[Vlade4GM]

Hill reminds me of Wilcox.

 

[bajaden]

Hill reminds me of Wilcox.

Well they're both strictly post players. Hill has a nice little 12 jumper that he's pretty consistant with. I would say that Wilcox has a few more muscles than Hill does. Considering that Hill has been on a short learning curve with only 5 years of organized basketball, I'd say he's a quick learner.

I was a big fan of Wilcox in college, but he's been somewhat of a disappointment to me. He's certainly not a bust, and has had his share of injuries. I just thought he would be better than he's been.

You know, this year, I doubt that any freshmen are going to be drafted in the top five. Holliday may be the only one with a chance. Its still early and someone may start rising, but I'll be surprised.

 

[Sptsjunkie]

Who can? Its going to have to be team defense and protecting the lane. If Hawes continues to develop as a shot blocker that will help. Larry Bird said once that you can never stop a great scorer. All you can do is make them take unconfortable shots.

Agreed. No one is shutting those players down, but a better defender still helps to make their shots more uncomfortable. It just seems to me that if you have a player with lesser lateral speed, but who had good anticipation, it would be good to have him play off the ball and have a more athletic player with better lateral movment guard the penetrator.

 

[bajaden]

Agreed. No one is shutting those players down, but a better defender still helps to make their shots more uncomfortable. It just seems to me that if you have a player with lesser lateral speed, but who had good anticipation, it would be good to have him play off the ball and have a more athletic player with better lateral movment guard the penetrator.

Well it never hurts to have your best defender matched up with the other teams best player. If the matchups are right. The bottom line is though, it still comes down to team defense. The more athletic players you have the better. But if you look around the league and list the best defensive teams, it would be rare to find five starters that all were great individual defenders. Its the old story of you've got my back and I've got yours.

There's so many things that go into being a good defensive team. Not being a good rebounding team. Not getting into your offensive set before shooting the ball. Simply not getting back consistantly in transition. Its really about commitment and focus. To be honest, I see more commitment and focus out of the young guys than I do the vets sometimes.

 

[Kingster]

I watched the Arizona/Kansas game yesterday. Jordan Hill may be one of the most improved players in the country. He had 23 pts on 11 of 23 shooting. 11 boards and 2 blocks. He looks like he spent the whole off season in the weight room. He just looks more muscled to me.

I know there are those out there that don't like him, but if you haven't seen him play this year, then you need to. This is the fourth time I've seen him this year, and I starting to believe he's the real deal. If he continues to play this well, he may move himself into a top five pick.

He definitely looks like NBA material. I just doubt he's top 5 material. I wasn't very impressed with his rebounding instincts, or quickness to the ball, though when he has the ball in his hands he looks pretty quick.

 

[Kingster]

Blake Griffin, Oklahoma: A whirlpool
The 6-foot-10, 250-pound Griffin is only 19 years old, and I haven't seen a college player in a while who can dominate the way he does with his incredible combination of size, speed, power and agility. So while his physical attributes are a blessing, they can be a curse, as well. He's constantly double- and triple-teamed and, as evidenced by two recent intentional fouls against him, roughed up as well. Enjoy the hot tub, Blake. It will be a long season in the Big 12.

I didn't see him double teamed when they played Utah. They just had their center guard him. So when faced with a bigger guy he didn't have the mobility or the handle to be effective.

 

[Kingster]

Lawal, Mullens, Samuels, & Clark

http://www.draftexpress.com/profile/Gani-Lawal-1269/

Has anyone seen this kid play? His bio intrigues me a lot, especially the part about being very athletic and out-working everyone on the floor. 6-8", but with a 7'1" wingspan. Very interesting.

I saw Mullens,the center from Ohio State, today. He has a loooooooong way to go. He definitely needs a couple of more years in college. He's just a big guy running around on the court now, not a basketball player

Samuels, the freshman at Louisville, looks like a player. Rebounds, good hands, has a hook shot, takes up space, doesn't get moved around in the box, looks like a worker, probably not much of a shot blocker, but willing to take the charge. Just like the Kings, they don't get the ball to him enough in the post. I like this kid.

Clark didn't impress me.

 

[bajaden]

He definitely looks like NBA material. I just doubt he's top 5 material. I wasn't very impressed with his rebounding instincts, or quickness to the ball, though when he has the ball in his hands he looks pretty quick.

Well its easy to see his flaws, and there are some. But when you consider he had never touched a basketball until 5 years ago and is learning on the fly, I think he pretty impressive. Last year he was strictly a righthanded player, and this year he' using either hand to go to the basket. His post skills have improved from last year and so has his ability to see the double team and pass out of it.

My point is that he seems to be a quick learner, unlike Thabeet, who is still making the same mistakes he did last year, and though improved, is still a big time project. Hill is a very good athlete. He's tall and long. Contrary to what you may think, I still think he could be a top five pick. I don't think Thabeet will. At least not at this time.

Although Hill has developed into a decent shot blocker, I think he still has a ways to go to be a good defensive player. But he has all the physcial tools to become one.

 

[FakeInjury]

Courtney Fortson

 

[Kingster]

Well its easy to see his flaws, and there are some. But when you consider he had never touched a basketball until 5 years ago and is learning on the fly, I think he pretty impressive. Last year he was strictly a righthanded player, and this year he' using either hand to go to the basket. His post skills have improved from last year and so has his ability to see the double team and pass out of it.

My point is that he seems to be a quick learner, unlike Thabeet, who is still making the same mistakes he did last year, and though improved, is still a big time project. Hill is a very good athlete. He's tall and long. Contrary to what you may think, I still think he could be a top five pick. I don't think Thabeet will. At least not at this time.

Although Hill has developed into a decent shot blocker, I think he still has a ways to go to be a good defensive player. But he has all the physcial tools to become one.

After thinking it over, I agree that Hill could be a top 5 pick in this draft. Maybe in the last two drafts he's in the top 10, but in this one maybe top 5. He did look like a difference maker to me, and the fact that he's only played 5 years of ball is impressive. For a big man, he is quick. I'll tell you one thing though - he's a lot more motivated on offense, than defense. Even running down the floor, on an offensive fast break situation, he put it into another gear, while he liked to loaf a bit on the defensive side. We could do a lot worse than having Hawes, Thompson and Hill on the front line. I like competition factor as well.

 

[bajaden]

http://www.draftexpress.com/profile/Gani-Lawal-1269/

Has anyone seen this kid play? His bio intrigues me a lot, especially the part about being very athletic and out-working everyone on the floor. 6-8", but with a 7'1" wingspan. Very interesting.

I saw Mullens,the center from Ohio State, today. He has a loooooooong way to go. He definitely needs a couple of more years in college. He's just a big guy running around on the court now, not a basketball player

Samuels, the freshman at Louisville, looks like a player. Rebounds, good hands, has a hook shot, takes up space, doesn't get moved around in the box, looks like a worker, probably not much of a shot blocker, but willing to take the charge. Just like the Kings, they don't get the ball to him enough in the post. I like this kid.

Clark didn't impress me.

Yeah, I've mentioned Lawal a couple of times in my posts in this very thread. I like him, but he's a fairly raw player, gifted with great athleticism. I think that Georga Tech could have a pretty good team this year if they had a good backcourt. I currently have Lawal ranked third in my big man column. Griffin , Hill, and then Lawal.

Your right about Mullens. He really needs to stay in school another year or two, but at the last game the announcers said he comes from a very poor family and he's coming out this year no matter what. I'm sure some team will take a flyer on him in the first round, but I'll be surprised if he's a lottery pick.

I've only seen Clark play one time and he didn't impress me. I don't like to draw conclusions from one game, because anyone can have a bad game. So I'm anxious to see him a couple of more times.

 

[bajaden]

For those interested, Georgetown plays UConn today on espn at 4 o'clock Pacific time. A good chance to see how Thabeet does against Monroe.

 

[Kingster]

Monroe



Now that's what I'm talking about!!!!

Monroe is a star. NBA star written all over him. If he comes out (please, pretty please), he'll be a top three pick for sure. I'd pick him #1 in a heartbeat. He is mobile, great passer, very high IQ, sweeeet stroke, excellent hands, has a defensive presence, and just makes everyone better by being on his team. Great competitor, great poise for a freshman. I'm salivating at the prospect of having him, Hawes and Thompson in a rotation of the future. It would be an OUTSTANDING front line for years to come.

P.S. I wouldn't pick Thabeet with our second #1 pick.

 

[Nighthawk1]

Now that's what I'm talking about!!!!

Monroe is a star. NBA star written all over him. If he comes out (please, pretty please), he'll be a top three pick for sure. I'd pick him #1 in a heartbeat. He is mobile, great passer, very high IQ, sweeeet stroke, excellent hands, has a defensive presence, and just makes everyone better by being on his team. Great competitor, great poise for a freshman. I'm salivating at the prospect of having him, Hawes and Thompson in a rotation of the future. It would be an OUTSTANDING front line for years to come.

P.S. I wouldn't pick Thabeet with our second #1 pick.

He is great.. i won't argue that - but it doesn't solve a major need we will have at the PG spot. If you draft Monroe, and I assume you draft him as a PF - do you then package Houston's 1st + JT for a 2nd low draft pick and hope to pickup a Jrue Holliday?

 

[Kingster]

He is great.. i won't argue that - but it doesn't solve a major need we will have at the PG spot. If you draft Monroe, and I assume you draft him as a PF - do you then package Houston's 1st + JT for a 2nd low draft pick and hope to pickup a Jrue Holliday?

I wouldn't trade Jason Thompson. Three guys (Hawes/JT/Monroe) sharing 96 minutes is doable, at least for the first few years. I'm not sure about Holliday. I've seen him twice and he looks like he needs another year or two. Not a true point guard either. I haven't seen a pg yet that flashes at me like Monroe flashes. Mills is supposed to be good, and he is a true pg, but I haven't seen him play in a game. Maybe you really luck out and package the #1 and Salmons to get a Rubio.

 

[Vlade4GM]

Now that's what I'm talking about!!!!

Monroe is a star. NBA star written all over him. If he comes out (please, pretty please), he'll be a top three pick for sure. I'd pick him #1 in a heartbeat. He is mobile, great passer, very high IQ, sweeeet stroke, excellent hands, has a defensive presence, and just makes everyone better by being on his team. Great competitor, great poise for a freshman. I'm salivating at the prospect of having him, Hawes and Thompson in a rotation of the future. It would be an OUTSTANDING front line for years to come.

P.S. I wouldn't pick Thabeet with our second #1 pick.

I like Monroe a lot as well, a really smooth player. He has already added strength since last year, it looks he can add even more. I'm more convinced of Monroe's promise as an NBA player than Griffin's. Hopefully he'll declare this year because I don't know if we'll have a shot at him next year.

 

[Vlade4GM]

He is great.. i won't argue that - but it doesn't solve a major need we will have at the PG spot. If you draft Monroe, and I assume you draft him as a PF - do you then package Houston's 1st + JT for a 2nd low draft pick and hope to pickup a Jrue Holliday?

Does JT really solve our needs at the starting PF spot though? I don't see him being a big scoring threat in the post or being a 10rpg 2bpg guy. I can see Monroe doing something similar to that, and I think him and Hawes would make our froncourt set and have championship potential. Guards are easier to come by at later picks (which our 2010 pick is liable to be) than bigs. Now we need a guard who can create and be a scoring threat real bad but I don't know if we'd ever get a shot at a big like Monroe again IF he were to declare this year.

 

[Vlade4GM]

I wouldn't trade Jason Thompson. Three guys (Hawes/JT/Monroe) sharing 96 minutes is doable, at least for the first few years. I'm not sure about Holliday. I've seen him twice and he looks like he needs another year or two. Not a true point guard either. I haven't seen a pg yet that flashes at me like Monroe flashes. Mills is supposed to be good, and he is a true pg, but I haven't seen him play in a game. Maybe you really luck out and package the #1 and Salmons to get a Rubio.

Well, I think Holiday is a good enough facilitator, and could possibly be even better than we're really able to see of him in UCLA's system. He's got good vision/passing ability, great ball handling ability, and he's a willing passer; more importantly though he's a good decision maker and can be a big scoring threat off the dribble. We don't really need a true PG like a Calderon (even though it wouldn't hurt to have one), we still don't have a player who we can give the ball to in crunch time and have him create a shot.

 

[bajaden]

Well, so far I see that everyone would agree with me that Monroe is a special talent. He certainly outplayed Thabeet tonight, and, not to take anything away from Thabeet who is a very good defensive player in the mold of Mutombo. And at present, seems to be as one dimensional as Mutombo. I think I was most impressed with Monroe's composure. He plays the game the same way Harden does. He takes whats there and doesn't make mistakes. I don't think anyone would argue that without a doubt, he was the best player on the floor, and that without him its doubtful that Georgetown would have won. Based on this last game, he's jumped to the number three spot on my list.

Someone mentioned Mills being a true point guard. I'm not quite sure of that, but he's more of a point guard than Curry is. I like Mills a lot, and I think he could be better than either Beno or Brown. However, I don't think he'll be available at number 24. We would have to move up a little to get him and I think he would be worth it. He's lightning quick.

 

[bajaden]

Well, I think Holiday is a good enough facilitator, and could possibly be even better than we're really able to see of him in UCLA's system. He's got good vision/passing ability, great ball handling ability, and he's a willing passer; more importantly though he's a good decision maker and can be a big scoring threat off the dribble. We don't really need a true PG like a Calderon (even though it wouldn't hurt to have one), we still don't have a player who we can give the ball to in crunch time and have him create a shot.

I like Holiday, but I think you would agree that there are some doubts with him. I wish that he had a real chance to lead the team so we could get a real good read on him.

The way I feel about the draft is this. If we end up with a top five pick or even better a top three pick, which is not out of the question at this point. I believe you have to pick a player that you think has the best chance of sucess, regardless of position. If that happens to be a position of need, then so much the better. But if not, then you don't take a chance and reach. Not when your drafting that high. If you get a very good to great player at another positon, you have a tradable piece to perhaps aquire what you need.

Back to Holiday. I think he ultimatily will be better than Collison. Its a shame in a way that Collison is there. Right now, it would be hard to pass on Monroe or Hardin and Griffin to pick him. But who knows by the end of the season and the tournament.

 

[bajaden]

I wouldn't trade Jason Thompson. Three guys (Hawes/JT/Monroe) sharing 96 minutes is doable, at least for the first few years. I'm not sure about Holliday. I've seen him twice and he looks like he needs another year or two. Not a true point guard either. I haven't seen a pg yet that flashes at me like Monroe flashes. Mills is supposed to be good, and he is a true pg, but I haven't seen him play in a game. Maybe you really luck out and package the #1 and Salmons to get a Rubio.

If you watched the oylimpics, then you saw Mills, who was terrific. He's a little undersized. He's listed at 6', but you know how that goes. He has a Tim Hardaway type body, and is deathly quick. I don't know if there's a quicker pt guard in the draft. He's a good outside shooter. Maybe not as good as Curry, but still good if not a little streaky. I personally think that he's a diamond in the rough.

He's a smart player, but what I like most about him is that he's a tough player, and will take over a game when necessary. I think that there's a true point guard hiding inside of him, and he would be a steal late in the first round. If you don't know, he plays for St Marys and they are on TV quite a bit.

 

[Capt. Factorial]

Well, so far I see that everyone would agree with me that Monroe is a special talent. He certainly outplayed Thabeet tonight, and, not to take anything away from Thabeet who is a very good defensive player in the mold of Mutombo. And at present, seems to be as one dimensional as Mutombo.

I only managed to see the last 15 minutes of game time but I came away with the same impression - Monroe looked really good, best player on the floor and didn't seem phased by Thabeet's height advantage. Didn't get to see enough of him on defense as he had 3 fouls and G'Town was subbing him out on the defensive end every chance they got.

Thabeet, on the other hand, looked very one-dimensional - a shot-blocker and that's it. Not only did he make almost no attempt to establish post position on offense (I think I saw him take - and make while fouled - one shot, and I think that was off an offensive rebound in garbage time), but I didn't really see much in the way of effort or good positioning on rebounds. There was one UConn shot where Monroe first boxed Thabeet out, then lowered his shoulder into him and pile-drove him about ten feet further away from the basket. Sure, it should have been a foul that wasn't called, and the rebound didn't come that direction, but come on. You're 7'3" and you let a guy literally bulldoze you out of rebounding position? Monroe jumped Thabeet in my eyes today.

 

[Sptsjunkie]

Well, so far I see that everyone would agree with me that Monroe is a special talent. He certainly outplayed Thabeet tonight, and, not to take anything away from Thabeet who is a very good defensive player in the mold of Mutombo. And at present, seems to be as one dimensional as Mutombo. I think I was most impressed with Monroe's composure. He plays the game the same way Harden does. He takes whats there and doesn't make mistakes. I don't think anyone would argue that without a doubt, he was the best player on the floor, and that without him its doubtful that Georgetown would have won. Based on this last game, he's jumped to the number three spot on my list.

.

Who are your current Top 5.

So far I have you with:

1 - Griffin
2 -
3 - Monroe
4 -
5 -

 

[bajaden]

I only managed to see the last 15 minutes of game time but I came away with the same impression - Monroe looked really good, best player on the floor and didn't seem phased by Thabeet's height advantage. Didn't get to see enough of him on defense as he had 3 fouls and G'Town was subbing him out on the defensive end every chance they got.

Thabeet, on the other hand, looked very one-dimensional - a shot-blocker and that's it. Not only did he make almost no attempt to establish post position on offense (I think I saw him take - and make while fouled - one shot, and I think that was off an offensive rebound in garbage time), but I didn't really see much in the way of effort or good positioning on rebounds. There was one UConn shot where Monroe first boxed Thabeet out, then lowered his shoulder into him and pile-drove him about ten feet further away from the basket. Sure, it should have been a foul that wasn't called, and the rebound didn't come that direction, but come on. You're 7'3" and you let a guy literally bulldoze you out of rebounding position? Monroe jumped Thabeet in my eyes today.

Its too bad you didn't see the first half of the game. Thats when Monroe made all of his beautiful passes. Did a righthanded jump hook over Thabeet and did a lefthanded skyhook over Thabeet. He also did a nice backdoor on Thabeet. Thabeet backed off of him and he shot a rainbow jumper from three pt range over Thabeet.

Your right about Thabeet and his rebounding. He gets most of his rebounds from his height and being in the right place. He doesn't box out or work for positioning. He'll be even less effective in the NBA as a rebounder unless he starts learning the fundamentals. The dude can block shots though. If you have a team and have the luxury of being able to have a player like that, then he would be a good fit.

 

[bajaden]

Who are your current Top 5.

So far I have you with:

1 - Griffin
2 -
3 - Monroe
4 -
5 -

1- Griffin
2- Harden
3- Monroe
4- Hill
5- Lawal

I left Rubio off this list because I don't know if he's coming out or not. At present he's the only pt guard I would move into the top five. Simply because he's a pure pt guard, and thats what I think the Kings need. Doesn't mean he's a sure thing, but he comes closer than anyone else at this point. I don't think you use a top five pick on someone who might become a pure pt guard.