and with the #1 pick in the 2009 NBA draft the Kings select...
- Thread starter RiffRaff
- Start date
years ago, this could his last Sacramento rebuild if he isnt careful.
James Harden
His body type is deceiving as it appears to be soft and uncut … Listed at 6-4, he's likely close to 6-5 but still on the short side for a 2-guard … Can improve the consistency of his outside shooting … His quickness and athleticism, while good wont stand out on the next level … First step and his explosiveness aren't at an elite level … A decent defender who doesn't gamble much, but his lack of great foot speed limits his ability as a lock down guy … A terrific leader who can improve by becoming more vocal …
http://www.nbadraft.net/players/james-harden
Seems like a good pg.......YIKES.
James Harden
His body type is deceiving as it appears to be soft and uncut … Listed at 6-4, he's likely close to 6-5 but still on the short side for a 2-guard … Can improve the consistency of his outside shooting … His quickness and athleticism, while good wont stand out on the next level … First step and his explosiveness aren't at an elite level … A decent defender who doesn't gamble much, but his lack of great foot speed limits his ability as a lock down guy … A terrific leader who can improve by becoming more vocal …
http://www.nbadraft.net/players/james-harden
Seems like a good pg.......YIKES.
Your right, he's a two guard that can play some pt. As I said eariler, he would be perfect in the triangle offense. Remember the Bulls with Jordan. Who was the great all star pt guard on that team? With someone like Jordan or Pippen on the floor ( and I'm not saying Harden is their equal ) you can have a pt guard like a Fisher or a Kerr, or even a Bibby.
Come on Larry, quite being lazy and actualy watch the guy play instead of reading some report from a guy at NBADraft thats probably never seen him play either. I heard this same crap about Roy before he was drafted.
Remember Hawes. He had no foot speed either. He couldn't run the floor either. He wasn't athletic either. Well gee, he seems to have magicly transformed. Hell, were probably not going to have a shot at him anyway.
Remember Hawes. He had no foot speed either. He couldn't run the floor either. He wasn't athletic either. Well gee, he seems to have magicly transformed. Hell, were probably not going to have a shot at him anyway.
I've never proposed that he be drafted as a pt guard. As I've stated, he's a 2 guard that could play the point on occasion. Similar to Cisco. My concern, and maybe its unfounded, but I'm worried about Martin and the possibility of injuries becoming the norm. I hope that I'm wrong.
Most of us seem to think that Salmons will be traded at some point. Douby will, in all likelyhood be gone at the end of the year. That would leave us with Cisco and Greene at the 3, and only Martin at the 2, with no backup other than Greene or Cisco doing a three man rotation along with Martin. If Martin for whatever reason goes down, we have no one at that position. So to my mind, if you can draft a 2 guard that can also play some point, or you can draft a pt that can also play some 2 guard, then you help cover what could become a glaring weakness.
I guess my point is, that having a player of Harden's caliper as a backup to Martin is pretty good insurance. There's also nothing wrong with having a little competition at the position. The point guard, and how we aquire one is to me a seperate issue.
Most of us seem to think that Salmons will be traded at some point. Douby will, in all likelyhood be gone at the end of the year. That would leave us with Cisco and Greene at the 3, and only Martin at the 2, with no backup other than Greene or Cisco doing a three man rotation along with Martin. If Martin for whatever reason goes down, we have no one at that position. So to my mind, if you can draft a 2 guard that can also play some point, or you can draft a pt that can also play some 2 guard, then you help cover what could become a glaring weakness.
I guess my point is, that having a player of Harden's caliper as a backup to Martin is pretty good insurance. There's also nothing wrong with having a little competition at the position. The point guard, and how we aquire one is to me a seperate issue.
This draft is so weak that we might be forced to pick Harden if he is clearly the best available player. At this point i only see four players as definite top 10 picks. If Rubio decides to wait another year then you are down to 3 guys before there is a big drop off.
I'm not worried about Hardens athleticism. He is going to have to make a few adjustments when he makes the transition. He is going to need to rely more on his mid range game and when he goes to the basket he needs to use his strength and body control to finish. A lot of those floaters he puts up around the basket right now are gonna be blocked at the next level. I think he will figure it out. He's a smart player and he has the skills to compensate for not having the ideal athleticism to be a big time finisher at the next level.
As for him playing the point at the next level i don't think thats ever gonna happen. Harden has good ball skills, but not to the level you need to be a quality point. I have also never seen Harden really manage a game. Not saying he isn't capable but i haven't seen it. He can run a break better then most two guards but right now hes playing in an offense that is designed for him to score the ball 90% of the time. He gets his assists by being unselfish and taking advantage of the defense collapsing on him. He's a good passer and unselfish but theres more to playing the point then that.
Earlier i asked about how much of Rubio people had seen because i have read reports that at times he makes bad decisions with the ball and gets caught up in trying to make the home run play. In the few games i saw him play during the Olympics i didn't see him doing to much of this. What really impressed me about Rubio was how well he managed some of those game. He controlled the pace and allowed Spain to take advantage of their size inside. He showed great composer for someone his age and ran the game plan well. Once again i haven't seen much of Rubio but his ball skills are simple better then Hardens, which is really gonna help him handle the ball pressure a point guard has to deal with. It's hard for me to compare these two players considering they are very different players who when i saw them were playing with and against a vastly different quality of player.
If i was looking for a point guard, which i think the Kings will be, i would be more inclined to lean towards Rubio. Harden could be the better player in the end but quality point guards are rare. Still love Harden as a player just not as a point guard.
I'm not worried about Hardens athleticism. He is going to have to make a few adjustments when he makes the transition. He is going to need to rely more on his mid range game and when he goes to the basket he needs to use his strength and body control to finish. A lot of those floaters he puts up around the basket right now are gonna be blocked at the next level. I think he will figure it out. He's a smart player and he has the skills to compensate for not having the ideal athleticism to be a big time finisher at the next level.
As for him playing the point at the next level i don't think thats ever gonna happen. Harden has good ball skills, but not to the level you need to be a quality point. I have also never seen Harden really manage a game. Not saying he isn't capable but i haven't seen it. He can run a break better then most two guards but right now hes playing in an offense that is designed for him to score the ball 90% of the time. He gets his assists by being unselfish and taking advantage of the defense collapsing on him. He's a good passer and unselfish but theres more to playing the point then that.
Earlier i asked about how much of Rubio people had seen because i have read reports that at times he makes bad decisions with the ball and gets caught up in trying to make the home run play. In the few games i saw him play during the Olympics i didn't see him doing to much of this. What really impressed me about Rubio was how well he managed some of those game. He controlled the pace and allowed Spain to take advantage of their size inside. He showed great composer for someone his age and ran the game plan well. Once again i haven't seen much of Rubio but his ball skills are simple better then Hardens, which is really gonna help him handle the ball pressure a point guard has to deal with. It's hard for me to compare these two players considering they are very different players who when i saw them were playing with and against a vastly different quality of player.
If i was looking for a point guard, which i think the Kings will be, i would be more inclined to lean towards Rubio. Harden could be the better player in the end but quality point guards are rare. Still love Harden as a player just not as a point guard.
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I'm on board with that idea. I'm a big believer in drafting the best player available. How many times have we heard this: "We didn't draft (insert name of superstar) because we already had (insert name here) playing that same position! So instead, we drafted (insert name of scrub)."
As for Harden's defense, I have a hard time believing that he can't be at least as good as Beno or Bibby as a one. But I guess it's moot at this point because you're right, bajaden, we'll need a very high pick to have a chance with this kid.
Somehow, someway, it won't surprise me if Portland pull off some magic draft-day trade and lands James Harden.
As for Harden's defense, I have a hard time believing that he can't be at least as good as Beno or Bibby as a one. But I guess it's moot at this point because you're right, bajaden, we'll need a very high pick to have a chance with this kid.
Somehow, someway, it won't surprise me if Portland pull off some magic draft-day trade and lands James Harden.
A couple of comments from and article by Fran Fraschilla of ESPN:
James Harden, Arizona State: A PR agent
Most college basketball fans have heard of Harden. But because of Pacific Coast Time and the Sun Devils' limited television coverage, they don't realize what they're missing. He is currently shooting almost 80 percent from the line, almost 50 percent from behind the arc and over 60 percent from inside the arc. Astonishingly, one of the country's best scorers is averaging almost seven rebounds and four assists a game, as well. If he were in the Big East or ACC, he'd be a front-runner for national Player of the Year.
Blake Griffin, Oklahoma: A whirlpool
The 6-foot-10, 250-pound Griffin is only 19 years old, and I haven't seen a college player in a while who can dominate the way he does with his incredible combination of size, speed, power and agility. So while his physical attributes are a blessing, they can be a curse, as well. He's constantly double- and triple-teamed and, as evidenced by two recent intentional fouls against him, roughed up as well. Enjoy the hot tub, Blake. It will be a long season in the Big 12.
James Harden, Arizona State: A PR agent
Most college basketball fans have heard of Harden. But because of Pacific Coast Time and the Sun Devils' limited television coverage, they don't realize what they're missing. He is currently shooting almost 80 percent from the line, almost 50 percent from behind the arc and over 60 percent from inside the arc. Astonishingly, one of the country's best scorers is averaging almost seven rebounds and four assists a game, as well. If he were in the Big East or ACC, he'd be a front-runner for national Player of the Year.
Blake Griffin, Oklahoma: A whirlpool
The 6-foot-10, 250-pound Griffin is only 19 years old, and I haven't seen a college player in a while who can dominate the way he does with his incredible combination of size, speed, power and agility. So while his physical attributes are a blessing, they can be a curse, as well. He's constantly double- and triple-teamed and, as evidenced by two recent intentional fouls against him, roughed up as well. Enjoy the hot tub, Blake. It will be a long season in the Big 12.
I watched the USC, Georgia Tech game last night. It was the best game that I've watched so far this year for DeRozan. He looks as though he finally starting to get his bearings and fit in. I think he had 15 pts, but it was in the variety of ways that he scored them that impressed me. Don't take this the wrong way, but there were times that he reminded me of Kobe. I wouldn't write the kid off just yet.
Lawal always impresses me, but last night he and the team had a rough go of it. He got into foul trouble and it limited what he was able to do. It was obvious that USC's game plan was that they wern't going to get beat inside. Its hard to score in the post with 5 players hanging off of you.
I like Georgia Tech's team, but they were exposed last night. If they can't score from the outside, their going nowhere in the tourny.
Lawal always impresses me, but last night he and the team had a rough go of it. He got into foul trouble and it limited what he was able to do. It was obvious that USC's game plan was that they wern't going to get beat inside. Its hard to score in the post with 5 players hanging off of you.
I like Georgia Tech's team, but they were exposed last night. If they can't score from the outside, their going nowhere in the tourny.
Could not agree more. Heck play Martin at the 2 and Harden at the 3. We're not a playoff team next year anyway. If they both show great talent, but can't play together, at least they have both been showcased for a trade. We're not good enough yet to be worrying about position over talent. Right now, that should only be used as a tie breaker between two evenly ranked players, but not as a deciding factor. The only teams that should even consider position in the draft are contenders who need an extra piece who can step in and contribute immediatley.
TOTALLY AGREE about best player available. Look, it's not as if we are only one year away from the promised land and a point guard is the dude to to open the pearly gates. We could get a point guard with the Houston #1, or next year's #1 pick. We could get one via trade. We could get one in a couple of years via FA. Choose the best player available, period, especially when you are picking this high.
As for Portland, please don't report such terrible thoughts on this board.
As for Portland, please don't report such terrible thoughts on this board.
Yeah, Beno can be a good backup. I am hoping that a couple of PGs from this potentially talented class emerge.
I am currently on the Ricky Rubio bandwagon. He seems like a good game manager and I think he has the basic athleticism necessary. If we get him, we will need at the very least a SG who can guard PGs and/or a big man who can block shots.
The nice thing about Rubio is that he is 18 and already 6'4'' (reportedly), so with a good defensive, you could have the SG guard PGs and Rubio guard the SGs depending on the matchup.
I am currently on the Ricky Rubio bandwagon. He seems like a good game manager and I think he has the basic athleticism necessary. If we get him, we will need at the very least a SG who can guard PGs and/or a big man who can block shots.
The nice thing about Rubio is that he is 18 and already 6'4'' (reportedly), so with a good defensive, you could have the SG guard PGs and Rubio guard the SGs depending on the matchup.
Because there are a lot of elite PGs in the league right now and while I think that Rubio has the required threshold of athleticism to dominate offensively, I think we will need a second player on the court to stop the other team's best creator/penetrator.
From what I have read and seen, Rubio seems to have good defensive instincts, but with his height and lack of lateral speed, he will probably be better off guarding the opposing team's worst 1/2/3. I don't know that Rubio will ever be able to credibly guard Paul, Rondo, Williams, Harris, etc.
From what I have read and seen, Rubio seems to have good defensive instincts, but with his height and lack of lateral speed, he will probably be better off guarding the opposing team's worst 1/2/3. I don't know that Rubio will ever be able to credibly guard Paul, Rondo, Williams, Harris, etc.