Analyzing the Murray pick (Split from the Welcome thread)

#61
Gotta give the Kings an A for tonights draft!

I think really the path of least resistance for the Kings to improve this roster tonight was achieved (and more) --

Chimizie Metu took 186 3's last season for the kings making 30.6% of those attempts
Mo Harkless took 101 3's at 30%
Terence Davis 149 3's at 32.9%
Jeremy Lamb 53 3's at 30.2%
Bagley took 62 3's at a dismal 24.2% success rate
Fox and Davion Mitchell combined to take 569 3's at a 30.7% clip

Keegan Murray (and to a lesser extent Vezenkov) is going to REALLY help bring the quality of our 3pt shooting up.. Which will make things easier for Fox to get loose and we can put defenses in a pick your posion situation rather than them keying their whole defense on him..

Murray is a guy with a large repertoire of fakes and jab steps and he knows how to use them, the ballmovement will be better and its going to have a reverberating effect on the entire team. Plus Murray is multipositional defender, hes good in transition he's good off the ball -- When teams played Iowa this season their entire gameplan was to slow him down and still youll see in the footage time and time again him picking off their weaknesses and exploiting them so other then having him guard better players than hes used to I dont think the Kings are going to ask him to do much of anything he isnt already comfortable with and didnt get a ton of reps with in college.. Which is one of the things that differentiates him with many of the other top lotto picks, its fair to say he's got a bit more polish.

Add in the unselfish play and crisp clean ballmovement and vision of Sabonis, and penetration from Fox. DiVicenzo can settle in a bit more and finally has the rust off the tires from the injury, plus he now has more help sharing the load in replacing the massive hole left by Buddy and Haliburtons 3pt prowess... Keegan Murray is going to fit in like a natural around here.. Plus if he can help us play more efficient on offense and we can get more leads this is gonna give Davion Mitchell more opportunities to put the clamps on the opposition and have it hold weight. Murray's got a chance to look like exactly what we needed, which for a team that finished with 30 wins is above what we could really hope for. Super excited.
This post has me a lot more excited than i was. I’m really looking forward to watching him play and actually having Fox and Sabonis for more than just 9 games together as well. I think people forget we really have no idea just how good we can be because we’ve yet to see much. The flashes of brilliance shown definitely weren’t a fluke IMO - just need chemistry and proper coaching if you ask me.
 
#62
Tyreke could barely string together a sentence, he just didn’t have it between the ears. He had the physical gifts, just didn’t know how to put it all together. And then the drug issues and being kicked out of the league.
I think it’s safe to say Keegan won’t be going down the Tyreke route. He’s got the mental toughness needed for a successful career.
I was baffled at how quick Tyreke's career ended up going in a downward spiral. I still am, actually.

Keegan certainly seems to have that mental toughness; Let's just hope it's able to transition over into the professional basketball realm.
 
#63
Ok what are the opinions on when will he become a starter? I know thats a tough question as coming off the bench till he gets used to the speed of the NBA is usually the way it goes.
But barring a blockbuster trade bringing another Player with no one in front of him are we looking at from the get go, 10 games, 1/4 or first half of the season?
 
#64
Ok what are the opinions on when will he become a starter? I know thats a tough question as coming off the bench till he gets used to the speed of the NBA is usually the way it goes.
But barring a blockbuster trade bringing another Player with no one in front of him are we looking at from the get go, 10 games, 1/4 or first half of the season?
If he has a great Summer League, training camp, and pre-season, then he could very well be our starter on opening night. If he doesn't, I will give him about 20 - 25 games before he jumps into the starting lineup. If Murray is not starting for us by the all star break, I may start to become a bit concerned.
 
#65
I don't think there's any downside to starting him right away unless we get a big roster addition between now and opening night. We were scrambling for productivity at that other forward position all year. If Donte comes back I think the starting lineup will be Fox/DDV/Barnes/Murray/Sabonis.
 
#67
Tyreke could barely string together a sentence, he just didn’t have it between the ears. He had the physical gifts, just didn’t know how to put it all together. And then the drug issues and being kicked out of the league.
I think it’s safe to say Keegan won’t be going down the Tyreke route. He’s got the mental toughness needed for a successful career.
I knew some folks, who were in his inner circle during his first few years in the league. The most common word was that he was a kid. i think he came into the league at 19?

Hopefully Keegan is more mature than that, but even if he was, I wouldn’t expect hard work and maturity to be guarantees of success or professionalism. Look at Buddy’s transformation from I love it here to outright hating on the city leading up to and after getting his contract.
 
#69
I was baffled at how quick Tyreke's career ended up going in a downward spiral. I still am, actually.

Keegan certainly seems to have that mental toughness; Let's just hope it's able to transition over into the professional basketball realm.
Drugs will mess you up. It will take you from highest of highs to lowest of lows and quickly. It takes no prisoners. Also, Tyreke never spent any real time improving his deficiencies. An absolute savant driving to the hoop and a solid understanding of basketball, but terrible shot selection and a broken jumper doomed him, along with bad advice from those he trusted. I remember him just playing streetball during the off-season, which is great and all, but that won’t make you a better shooter.
 
#71
"In all honesty, I'm not trying to be arrogant about it, but anybody that would bring that up is not worth listening to because they clearly don't know anything about the game. It's idiotic of a statement that I've ever heard. And they are clearly making a statement about someone they clearly have no idea who you're talking about."

But why listen to our own GM, his scouts, and even the guy's previous head coach who sang his praises when we got our local haters who can tell you more about why royally we f'd up our draft this year again?
Show me a coach, who doesn’t defend their players. Here’s coach K on Bags after his draft:

“He wants to learn, he has no demons, he's a great kid, he's smart, and has an incredible motor,” said Blue Devils coach Mike Krzyzewski. “He never has a bad day. He's a treasure, really. He's going to be one of the great players in the NBA during his time."
 
#72
I knew some folks, who were in his inner circle during his first few years in the league. The most common word was that he was a kid. i think he came into the league at 19?

Hopefully Keegan is more mature than that, but even if he was, I wouldn’t expect hard work and maturity to be guarantees of success or professionalism. Look at Buddy’s transformation from I love it here to outright hating on the city leading up to and after getting his contract.
Hey you never know what can cause a person to change. I still don’t completely understand Buddy’s switch in his thinking (perhaps he was being held accountable for some losses and didn’t like it), but to each his own. As long as Keegan can put his head down, learn, and work hard he will give himself the best chance to be successful. Nothing is guaranteed though, like you said. Lots of guys with boatloads of talent not making it. I’ll bet on Keegan though, because he already had to do it once just to make it here.
 
#73
His slow first step is because he's mechanical. He's thinking about his moves, offense and defense. The ironic part of it is that his athleticism is what saves him from this negative aspect of his game.

He's obviously a late bloomer and even plays a bit like he had a late growth spurt, though I don't know that for fact.
He was 5'11 his Jr. year of HS. He grew to 6'8 over the next year and a half. And apparently has grown another inch since.
 
#75
What I do like about guys like Murray who were late bloomers is they already develop a pro work ethic so young in their career. You don't go from being ranked 300+ to a top 5 NBA pick without an incredible amount of time and effort in the gym. Same thing happened with Ja Morant, who was ranked 256 in his high school class and is now a mega superstar in the NBA.

Doesn't guarantee success obviously, but the beauty of players like Keegan and Davion are they're not going to beat themselves. You know they're going to grind their faces off to get better. And often times, they do pop as excellent NBA players.
 
#76
Show me a coach, who doesn’t defend their players. Here’s coach K on Bags after his draft:

“He wants to learn, he has no demons, he's a great kid, he's smart, and has an incredible motor,” said Blue Devils coach Mike Krzyzewski. “He never has a bad day. He's a treasure, really. He's going to be one of the great players in the NBA during his time."
lol... sounds like the MBIII I know and love
 
#77
Show me a coach, who doesn’t defend their players. Here’s coach K on Bags after his draft:

“He wants to learn, he has no demons, he's a great kid, he's smart, and has an incredible motor,” said Blue Devils coach Mike Krzyzewski. “He never has a bad day. He's a treasure, really. He's going to be one of the great players in the NBA during his time."
Yep. Every draft pick has the ringing endorsement of their ex coach, GM and scouts. Anthony Bennett as well.
 
#78
Yep. Every draft pick has the ringing endorsement of their ex coach, GM and scouts. Anthony Bennett as well.
Yea, it's good business for coaches to hype up their players in public. Helps with recruiting.

In private, they prob should keep it real. The Niners have stayed away from Bama players since Reuben Foster. The word is, they felt Saban lied about Foster. On the other hand, they love South Carolina players. Reason? They felt Will Muschamp kept it real with Deebo. Javon Kinlaw likely does not go to the Niners had Deebo not gone first.
 
#79
Tyreke could barely string together a sentence, he just didn’t have it between the ears. He had the physical gifts, just didn’t know how to put it all together. And then the drug issues and being kicked out of the league.
I think it’s safe to say Keegan won’t be going down the Tyreke route. He’s got the mental toughness needed for a successful career.
I heard rumors he liked to party but I also heard the drugs that got him kicked were opioids and this is probably where the health educator in me kicks in and says this team made him play through a bunch of ankle stuff and its likely his addiction issues sprung from pain management drugs he needed to play through his pain.

Reke may not have been the highest BBIQ guy on the board, but he almost certainly fell off as hard as he did due to mismanagement by this organization. Overplaying him, not rehabbing him when needed, and then jerking him around the court. One year he was the PG of the future, the following year he's a SF project. What the hell.
 
#80
I don't think there's any downside to starting him right away unless we get a big roster addition between now and opening night. We were scrambling for productivity at that other forward position all year. If Donte comes back I think the starting lineup will be Fox/DDV/Barnes/Murray/Sabonis.
I keep saying this but he's basically the player we've been trying to sign to an RFA overpay for 8 years now. Obviously he'll be a rook with growing pains, but we're going to finally have that guy on a reasonable contract for at least 4 years. And if he isn't a "star" then he'll be on a mid level type deal for the next 5 after that. That's a great thing as long as the triple play of Murray-Fox-Sabonis is enough to get it done with DDV and Barnes/future Barnes replacement (we should definitely be looking at that this year by all indications - flipping him at the deadline for a similar piece, but maybe a more obvious match with Murray and Sabonis.
 
#83
I heard rumors he liked to party but I also heard the drugs that got him kicked were opioids and this is probably where the health educator in me kicks in and says this team made him play through a bunch of ankle stuff and its likely his addiction issues sprung from pain management drugs he needed to play through his pain.

Reke may not have been the highest BBIQ guy on the board, but he almost certainly fell off as hard as he did due to mismanagement by this organization. Overplaying him, not rehabbing him when needed, and then jerking him around the court. One year he was the PG of the future, the following year he's a SF project. What the hell.
I never could, for the life of me, figure out why the hell Reke playing at the Small Forward position was even remotely a good idea. Nothing about that made any sense to me back then. Who even came up with that idea to begin with????
 
#86
Not sure if this is the right thread but does Collins fit next to Murray?
I assume that, when you say "next to Murray", you are asking about the starting lineup. And the answer is no, because both play the same position, and I don't see either taking the starting position away from Sabonis. If you're asking if Collins + Murray can both be PF's on the roster going forward, then that all depends on how you view Murray. If you want Murray to be the team's everyday starter, then I'm not sure if Collins is the right answer coming off of the bench, nor do I think he agrees to take on that role. If you want Collins to be the team's starter, while Murray works his way up into the starting spot, then it might work, but then you risk losing Collins in a trade, or via free agency, and then it would all depend on what kind of a contract we are talking about. Because Collins is not going to sign a cheap contract.
 
#87
To be fair, there have also been players who came through Sacramento but just couldn't figure it out for themselves.
Kids who have things to figure out are impacted and influenced more by the organizations they get drafted into. Which is the reason consciously or subconsciously, this fan base is devasted by missing on certain players. Even though there are plenty of teams that can improve their teams methodically and don't need "generational " talent just to make the play in.
 
#88
Rinse, lather, repeat.

Until the franchise succeeds, I'll always blame the organization over the player.

I don't care who the player is.
I still think Bagley was the wrong pick and his dad was likely going to be a problem no matter what and I maintain his unwillingness to play through small injury - despite everything I just said about Reke(!) - is why it was never going to work out for him when the next 3 players picked don't come with all that baggage. But still - the mismanagement between coach and FO, the subsequent hiring of a coach that would not play Bagley when healthy and who was an idiot, all of that greatly contributed to his downfall and the possibility that he has a monster year on his new team and makes us all look dumb as bricks.
 
#89
Kids who have things to figure out are impacted and influenced more by the organizations they get drafted into. Which is the reason consciously or subconsciously, this fan base is devasted by missing on certain players. Even though there are plenty of teams that can improve their teams methodically and don't need "generational " talent just to make the play in.
This is a reasonable point. A "generational" talent is very likely to succeed no matter the situation into which they're drafted. Luke Doncic is already great. He certainly would have been great if he had been drafted by an organization with a stellar rep, like Miami or San Antonio. And he would still have been great if he had been drafted by an organization with a terrible rep, like Sacramento. Thus, in spite of themselves, the Kings still would have a yearly shot at playoff success had they drafted Luka.

Unfortunately, when you're drafting promising but less than "generational" talent, it's often important for a franchise to have a strong culture of development and a reasonable level of stability in order for that young talent to flourish. Until recently, it was very easy to argue that the Kings would fail to develop any of their young talent and fail to harness that young talent to win because of extreme organizational instability. I'm of the belief that they've turned the corner on that particular issue with the McNair-Brown partnership. So we'll see what they can do with young talent like Keegan Murray and Davion Mitchell.
 
#90
Show me a coach, who doesn’t defend their players. Here’s coach K on Bags after his draft:

“He wants to learn, he has no demons, he's a great kid, he's smart, and has an incredible motor,” said Blue Devils coach Mike Krzyzewski. “He never has a bad day. He's a treasure, really. He's going to be one of the great players in the NBA during his time."
Say what you will, that still doesn't discount the fact that he knows more than any of you.

Personally, if someone randomly stops me on the street and asks me how I feel about kb02, or anyone on this board and if I really have nothing nice to say, most diplomatically I'd just say, "I guess you can find out yourself...?"