Analyzing the Murray pick (Split from the Welcome thread)
- Thread starter KainLear
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::sigh::
This is what I see as well. He is coachable, works hard and has a great 3 point shot. A willing defender. Another positive is that he appears to be a blank slate as far as creating his own offense. No bad habits to break, so there is some growth potential. Whether it be in the post or creating some separation to get a shot off.
How he fairs in summer league will tell a lot about his ability to guard on the perimeter or get his shot off, as summer league is usually chock full of uber athletic guys hungry to prove themselves against the top picks.
I'm rooting for him and believe he'll be solid in his career.
This is what I see as well. He is coachable, works hard and has a great 3 point shot. A willing defender. Another positive is that he appears to be a blank slate as far as creating his own offense. No bad habits to break, so there is some growth potential. Whether it be in the post or creating some separation to get a shot off.
How he fairs in summer league will tell a lot about his ability to guard on the perimeter or get his shot off, as summer league is usually chock full of uber athletic guys hungry to prove themselves against the top picks.
I'm rooting for him and believe he'll be solid in his career.
I'm more bearish on his shot blocking abilities. I don't think it'll translate to the NBA anything past an average level. It's one of the more difficult plays to make in the NBA and you usually need a certain body type to do it. Hopefully he's an outlier but it'll be rare if he can average even 1bpg. Only 25 players averaged 1bpg last year and Thybulle, Bazley and Covington are the only real non center types to do it. If he can just stay in front of his man and not guard the air in between the paint and he 3 point line, I'll be happy.
I think he's more like Otto Porter than Barnes considering Porter does more of the little things that help his team win and is a plus defender (which came through in the advanced impact stats as well).
If Murray can become a less injury prone version of Porter with better rim protection, we'll have quite the player on our hands
If Murray can become a less injury prone version of Porter with better rim protection, we'll have quite the player on our hands
One of the things we haven't been talking much about is how absolutely ridiculous Murray is in transition. I mean, this video goes on and on and on... We want to play fast? Keegan is going to help more than we know.
I know Murray was perceived as sort of a "safe" pick. I guess the question is whether there's anything wrong with that. There's a good chance that Keegan doesn't end up being the absolute *best* player available at #4 - but I think we overestimate how frequently any draft pick turns out to be the best available player. If the criterion is "nobody better (career WS) left on the board, minimum 20 WS or 10K minutes", there were only 40 guys who met that criterion in the 10 drafts between 2001-2010. That's an average of 4 per draft, or 1 in every 15 picks. So when somebody below Keegan blows up, that's no real reason to be upset as long as Murray provides us with value at the draft slot. And we all expect that he has that high floor. He's going to be an easy player to root for, and hopefully he'll be an easy player to root for for a long time.
Yeah, the Sabonis grab and go and Keegan grab and go are going to be a ton of fun. IIRC, he was like the highest rated player in transition PPP. His handle running downhill looked good in transition for the most part which is why I do have some confidence that can develop in the half-court as well.
Brown hasn't been known for pace in the past, mainly because LeBron teams play slow, but if he's smart, he'll let us turn on the after-burners again and be a top 3 pace team in the league. Fox/Mitchell/DDV/Murray/Barnes/Sabonis all very capable of pushing the pace and "grab and go"
Brown hasn't been known for pace in the past, mainly because LeBron teams play slow, but if he's smart, he'll let us turn on the after-burners again and be a top 3 pace team in the league. Fox/Mitchell/DDV/Murray/Barnes/Sabonis all very capable of pushing the pace and "grab and go"
Yeah, I'm not expecting JJJ or anything, but I do think Keegan walks into the league with a great chance to be one of the better big wing rim protectors and defensive playmakers. And considering how rare the skill is in a 4 (and how important it needs to be next to Sabonis), at least it's in the tool-box for him to develop.
I actually think Murray is a better athlete than people are giving him credit for. He doesn't have a particularly quick first step which makes him look somewhat plodding when he's trying to create off the dribble. However in the open floor he is very fast for a guy his size and is also a good leaper off one foot.
I see him as more of a 3 than a 4 once he tightens up his handles. I don't expect him to struggle at all athletically, and in face expect that people will be surprised.
I see him as more of a 3 than a 4 once he tightens up his handles. I don't expect him to struggle at all athletically, and in face expect that people will be surprised.
Oh for sure. I remember opposing teams just savagely attacking his dribble he had no respect.
Back to Murray I'm good with the pick he plays a smooth game. I would look into trading a future 1st for another high level starter right now and throwing the full MLE at Monk. We need to consolidate some roster spots right now too.
Back to Murray I'm good with the pick he plays a smooth game. I would look into trading a future 1st for another high level starter right now and throwing the full MLE at Monk. We need to consolidate some roster spots right now too.
Both Murray and Sharpe flash visions of Klay on those curl and pops. Balanced.
Keegan is straight line and physical. It's a plus from day one. Fox was straight line from day one, but he wasn't physical. Got bigger last year, but it took him pretty much the entire year to learn how to use that new physicality. Was still trying to out quick his opponents.
While Keegan is smooth, I don't see the same balance that Pat Baldwin Jr. flashes on off schedule movements--jumping off of either leg, scoring smoothly with either hand. You can see it on plays where he jumps awkwardly into his opponent with his right shoulder then powers up with the right hand instead of using his left hand to score. Balance steals milliseconds, which come in handy if you're not an uber athlete by NBA standards.
He also doesn't have that Manu style finishing. Not so much the Eurostep, since pretty much the entire league has it now, but just in maneuvering his shot to execute it. Getting to even just a Tyreke Evans level at the rim movement would make him much more effective in the paint as he develops.
Every player has flaws, so hopefully the off the court tidbits are true. That he's a worker and that he'll continue to improve.
Keegan is straight line and physical. It's a plus from day one. Fox was straight line from day one, but he wasn't physical. Got bigger last year, but it took him pretty much the entire year to learn how to use that new physicality. Was still trying to out quick his opponents.
While Keegan is smooth, I don't see the same balance that Pat Baldwin Jr. flashes on off schedule movements--jumping off of either leg, scoring smoothly with either hand. You can see it on plays where he jumps awkwardly into his opponent with his right shoulder then powers up with the right hand instead of using his left hand to score. Balance steals milliseconds, which come in handy if you're not an uber athlete by NBA standards.
He also doesn't have that Manu style finishing. Not so much the Eurostep, since pretty much the entire league has it now, but just in maneuvering his shot to execute it. Getting to even just a Tyreke Evans level at the rim movement would make him much more effective in the paint as he develops.
Every player has flaws, so hopefully the off the court tidbits are true. That he's a worker and that he'll continue to improve.
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Bags had that grab and go as well for a few games. Then the league started jumping his left hand. While I think we'll be able to see some of it from Murray early, I don't think his handle is tight enough at this point to do it consistently. Hopefully he'll learn from Domas, who tends to crouch, slow down, and protect the ball when opponents attack his handle in the open court. Bags never learned that.
His slow first step is because he's mechanical. He's thinking about his moves, offense and defense. The ironic part of it is that his athleticism is what saves him from this negative aspect of his game.
He's obviously a late bloomer and even plays a bit like he had a late growth spurt, though I don't know that for fact.
He's obviously a late bloomer and even plays a bit like he had a late growth spurt, though I don't know that for fact.
I think what will help Murray early on is just to make the game simple. Hit open shots, cut hard when opportunities are there, hit the defensive glass, and play good team defense. It's essentially what Wagner did last season with the Magic putting him in positions to play to his strengths.
He doesn't have to do everything for the Kings like he did at Iowa so don't try to do too much early on. So while he can grab and go, it's easier to just outlet the ball. In time hopefully he makes strides with his handle and playmaking.
As much as I loved Eason as a prospect, he'll likely have a long transition to the NBA game because he just tries to do too much and it results in lots of missed shots, turnovers, and fouls.
Murray is smart enough that I think he'll do the opposite early on.
He doesn't have to do everything for the Kings like he did at Iowa so don't try to do too much early on. So while he can grab and go, it's easier to just outlet the ball. In time hopefully he makes strides with his handle and playmaking.
As much as I loved Eason as a prospect, he'll likely have a long transition to the NBA game because he just tries to do too much and it results in lots of missed shots, turnovers, and fouls.
Murray is smart enough that I think he'll do the opposite early on.
Yeah, IMO that’s a overused phrase that doesn’t really mean anything. Same goes for my other pet peeve phrase “win now”. WTF does that really mean?
Because every team wants to win now (sans intentional tankers). Isn’t that the point of competition?
I kept hearing the phrase with regard to the KINGS leading up to the draft and it just doesn’t make sense. “The Kings want to win now”.
If any org is satisfied securing a 7-10 seed to then be a sacrificial lamb to a top 2 seed — that’s not winning now, in any shape or form.
Circling back to “safe pick” I don’t think such a thing exists. All these players are gambles, even if some are viewed as less of a gamble than others.
In the case of Keegan Murray I surely hope he was drafted with the goal of trying to build a team capable of winning a championship one day, not just ending a playoff drought.
Because every team wants to win now (sans intentional tankers). Isn’t that the point of competition?
I kept hearing the phrase with regard to the KINGS leading up to the draft and it just doesn’t make sense. “The Kings want to win now”.
If any org is satisfied securing a 7-10 seed to then be a sacrificial lamb to a top 2 seed — that’s not winning now, in any shape or form.
Circling back to “safe pick” I don’t think such a thing exists. All these players are gambles, even if some are viewed as less of a gamble than others.
In the case of Keegan Murray I surely hope he was drafted with the goal of trying to build a team capable of winning a championship one day, not just ending a playoff drought.
"In all honesty, I'm not trying to be arrogant about it, but anybody that would bring that up is not worth listening to because they clearly don't know anything about the game. It's idiotic of a statement that I've ever heard. And they are clearly making a statement about someone they clearly have no idea who you're talking about."
But why listen to our own GM, his scouts, and even the guy's previous head coach who sang his praises when we got our local haters who can tell you more about why royally we f'd up our draft this year again?
But why listen to our own GM, his scouts, and even the guy's previous head coach who sang his praises when we got our local haters who can tell you more about why royally we f'd up our draft this year again?
Tyreke could barely string together a sentence, he just didn’t have it between the ears. He had the physical gifts, just didn’t know how to put it all together. And then the drug issues and being kicked out of the league.
I think it’s safe to say Keegan won’t be going down the Tyreke route. He’s got the mental toughness needed for a successful career.
I think it’s safe to say Keegan won’t be going down the Tyreke route. He’s got the mental toughness needed for a successful career.