[Amick] No discussions for Monte extension

pdxKingsFan

So Ordinary That It's Truly Quite Extraordinary
Staff member
#31
I'd really like to think that extending the guy at least one more year to put him on Sabonis's timeline is just a formality. Blue check Kings media sure is enjoying a field day on this though. Vivek can either show he has learned something or that it's all just another endless cycle of him being a poophead here.
 
#32
Best GM we've had since Petrie and Vivek is making the exact same mistake he always makes. Putting undue pressure on guys to do what they're already attempting to do....except now they are under pressure to make more drastic and irrational decisions to keep their jobs instead of doing what's best for the franchise.

McNair better GM harder I guess.
The crazy thing is that Monte has already been GM'ing so damn hard. I mean, the guy drafted an efficient playmaking wunderkind and immediate fan favorite in Tyrese Haliburton and then had no reservations whatsoever about trading him for a surefire all-star in order to speed up the Kings' timeline of eventual playoff contention in accordance with Vivek's own stated wishes, and he managed to do so without having to part with any future draft capital in the process. You'd think that alone would be enough to earn a vote of confidence via contract extension, for at least another year or two.

The report says that there have not yet been conversations about an extension for McNair, but in my opinion, it should be priority number one to ensure that Monte and Mike Brown have adequate time to see this thing through together, for better or worse. And if it doesn't work out, then Vivek can fire everybody and go back to "disrupting" all he wants while the franchise continues to bleed fans and continues to p*ss away whatever goodwill remains from keeping the team planted firmly in Sacramento.
 
#33
You dont go in to the season with a lame duck GM. Even worse, the lame duck GM has been given a ridiculous command that he must reach a first round playoff exit if he wants to keep his job. Thats extremely dangerous. Thats a recipe for the worst case scenario: bad team makes win now moves way too early sacrificing their future in the process. But thats a very possible outcome with the situation Vivek has created. You either fire the GM or let him build the team with his vision and obviously without sacrificing future before that sacrifice makes you one of those teams that has an actual championship possibility..

Why cant this franchise stop being such incompetent? The league took action with Hinkie and the sixers. Silver could at least meet with Vivek and make it very clear that there are only 30 franchises and he wont be allowed to constantly put one of them in a huge competitive disadvantage.
 

pdxKingsFan

So Ordinary That It's Truly Quite Extraordinary
Staff member
#34
The crazy thing is that Monte has already been GM'ing so damn hard. I mean, the guy drafted an efficient playmaking wunderkind and immediate fan favorite in Tyrese Haliburton and then had no reservations whatsoever about trading him for a surefire all-star in order to speed up the Kings' timeline of eventual playoff contention in accordance with Vivek's own stated wishes, and he managed to do so without having to part with any future draft capital in the process. You'd think that alone would be enough to earn a vote of confidence via contract extension, for at least another year or two.
You would think but a fairly sizable contingent, fueled my the media who act like the previous braintrust is still GMing here, are convinced Haliburton is the next LeBron (or to re-enforce recent trauma Doncic) level all NBA superstar and we traded him for a washed up 30 year old.

probably a good time to point out Sabonis is a whopping 2 months older than Ben Simmons that everyone wanted to move hell and earth for and who has a timeline of who the hell knows when he'll be back if ever right now.
 
#35
You would think but a fairly sizable contingent, fueled my the media who act like the previous braintrust is still GMing here, are convinced Haliburton is the next LeBron (or to re-enforce recent trauma Doncic) level all NBA superstar and we traded him for a washed up 30 year old.

probably a good time to point out Sabonis is a whopping 2 months older than Ben Simmons that everyone wanted to move hell and earth for and who has a timeline of who the hell knows when he'll be back if ever right now.
Members of the media may think that, and a fair number of Kings fans surely think that, as well, but Vivek has stated that he wants to win now. He wants to be in the playoffs now. And his GM made a serious move toward accomplishing that by trading for an all-star just entering his prime while also keeping one eye on the future by retaining all of the team's draft capital. It was a near-miracle that Monte pulled that off without having to sacrifice a single first round pick in pursuit of making the "win now" moves that his owner demands. I honestly believe that most within the media and most within the fanbase are still underrating how impressive that trade was. From a pure asset management standpoint, it was precisely the kind of move that usually draws hyperbolic praise amongst a variety of talking heads when franchises other than the Kings take big swings like that while preserving future flexibility.

The fact is, McNair did as he was directed to do by Vivek; he put the Kings in a position to contend sooner than they likely would if they applied a much more patient tank-and-draft-and-develop approach. I was arguing for the latter, as were most fans, I'd wager. But Monte has done exactly what his employer has asked, and frankly he's done it really well, considering the difficulty curve of any GM working for this particular owner. So it's alarming to me that Vivek seems gunshy about committing to a GM who is following through on directives from ownership, and has done so more effectively than anybody else that Vivek has yet hired into that role. It says that Vivek either cannot recognize a good thing when he sees it, or his ego is a much larger problem than I thought.
 

pdxKingsFan

So Ordinary That It's Truly Quite Extraordinary
Staff member
#36
Members of the media may think that, and a fair number of Kings fans surely think that, as well, but Vivek has stated that he wants to win now. He wants to be in the playoffs now. And his GM made a serious move toward accomplishing that by trading for an all-star just entering his prime while also keeping one eye on the future by retaining all of the team's draft capital. It was a near-miracle that Monte pulled that off without having to sacrifice a single first round pick in pursuit of making the "win now" moves that his owner demands. I honestly believe that most within the media and most within the fanbase are still underrating how impressive that trade was. From a pure asset management standpoint, it was precisely the kind of move that usually draws hyperbolic praise amongst a variety of talking heads when franchises other than the Kings take big swings like that while preserving future flexibility.

The fact is, McNair did as he was directed to do by Vivek; he put the Kings in a position to contend sooner than they likely would if they applied a much more patient tank-and-draft-and-develop approach. I was arguing for the latter, as were most fans, I'd wager. But Monte has done exactly what his employer has asked, and frankly he's done it really well, considering the difficulty curve of any GM working for this particular owner. So it's alarming to me that Vivek seems gunshy about committing to a GM who is following through on directives from ownership, and has done so more effectively than anybody else that Vivek has yet hired into that role. It says that Vivek either cannot recognize a good thing when he sees it, or his ego is a much larger problem than I thought.
yeah he has done a lot when asked to follow specific guidelines, like retain Walton for a year + & get talent fast without tanking that's why I rate him highly. Some people can't see that "win now" by getting Sabonis may mean this year, they did push for the play in but quickly saw that New Orleans and San Antonio were not going anywhere so backed off to hold serve on their draft pick. Again, that's smart, but it wasn't tanky enough for some.

I really want to think media is just stirring for clicks though and we'll see Monte get at least one more year extended to be on Sabonis's timeline by the start of camp.
 

funkykingston

Super Moderator
Staff member
#37
Your GM and the coach he chose should be tied together contractually.

If you want to argue that McNair isn't a good GM and shouldn't be extended, fine. But then don't let him choose a new coach who is subsequently signed for four years when McNair is entering a lame duck year. I would hope that after all this incompetence Ranadive would finally understand this.

And maybe he does and McNair will be extended. But if not it's just another reason why the one common factor in the last 9 years of futility is the owner.
 
#38
Your GM and the coach he chose should be tied together contractually.

If you want to argue that McNair isn't a good GM and shouldn't be extended, fine. But then don't let him choose a new coach who is subsequently signed for four years when McNair is entering a lame duck year. I would hope that after all this incompetence Ranadive would finally understand this.

And maybe he does and McNair will be extended. But if not it's just another reason why the one common factor in the last 9 years of futility is the owner.
It's crazy a bunch of randos on a Kings forum know this but a dude who's made hundreds of millions of dollars in business/tech can't grasp the concept.

Mind-blowing.
 
#39
It would be nuts to not give Brown and Monte two years together. I definitely feel like there's no reason to extend him beyond adding a 4th year at this time, but they gave Brown a 4 year commitment and nothing Monte has done is worth firing this year. So give him one more year right now and then another 2 years to match Brown's deal if they are in the playoffs by the end of year 2.
It would be nuts but we’re overdue for some Vivek nuttery

Is the real scoop here that McNair only has one year remaining?? This might be the first time I’ve seen that definitely reported, I think the common assumption was 4 years which would give him 2 remaining running thru the end of the Sabonis contract

This really does raise the nightmare nuclear scenario where we miss the playoffs next year and Monte gets fired only to come in and be replaced by a GM who may have a different agenda and vision for the team. And if Sabonis is suddenly looking at working for a guy who didn’t trade for him, on a team assembled by a guy who’s already out the door, and with a likely lame duck coach who’s gotta be looking over his shoulder for when the GM finally fires him and brings his own guy in two years from now - is that really a scenario where Domas says “yup, this is cool, let’s re-up with the worst owner in the league who just fired the guy who traded a possible franchise player for me. Surely they’re not gonna turn around and ship my ass off in a year, so why bother actually picking where I go next and why not just leave my fate to a guy who got hired less than a year ago and with a coach who won’t be here in 2 years?”

this is also the sum-of-all-fears where we’re stuck with just Fox, Vivek continuing to refuse to tank, and us not going to a full rebuild until 2030, if ever
 
#40
No, this is the right call here, FOR MONTE. Bet on himself. The task has been laid out and I like it. Get a Wolves level turnaround or it's rebuild time and if the turnaround happens believe it, Monte will be cashing in big time. Vivek is actually playing this right finally. Will it last? Who knows, we'll find out. If Monte goes out and busts the teams chances to have max space next summer by re-signing role guys, sitting on Holmes, or wasting his MLE then a rebuild is that much tougher. If a superstar trade is there I'm sure they do it, but it likely won't be.
 
#42
It would be nuts but we’re overdue for some Vivek nuttery

Is the real scoop here that McNair only has one year remaining?? This might be the first time I’ve seen that definitely reported, I think the common assumption was 4 years which would give him 2 remaining running thru the end of the Sabonis contract

This really does raise the nightmare nuclear scenario where we miss the playoffs next year and Monte gets fired only to come in and be replaced by a GM who may have a different agenda and vision for the team. And if Sabonis is suddenly looking at working for a guy who didn’t trade for him, on a team assembled by a guy who’s already out the door, and with a likely lame duck coach who’s gotta be looking over his shoulder for when the GM finally fires him and brings his own guy in two years from now - is that really a scenario where Domas says “yup, this is cool, let’s re-up with the worst owner in the league who just fired the guy who traded a possible franchise player for me. Surely they’re not gonna turn around and ship my ass off in a year, so why bother actually picking where I go next and why not just leave my fate to a guy who got hired less than a year ago and with a coach who won’t be here in 2 years?”

this is also the sum-of-all-fears where we’re stuck with just Fox, Vivek continuing to refuse to tank, and us not going to a full rebuild until 2030, if ever
This impending conclusion would be well known by about 2 months into the year. If they stumble out of the gate then the process of transitioning away from Fox, Sabonis, et al will begin anyway. Or it should. If they are still outside the window but competitive then maybe they get aggressive looking to add a 3rd piece. The Kings don't want a GM with some level of comfort right now. Look at Petrie back in the day, look at Vlade to an extent. They got too comfortable at times. Monte was at first as well, but maybe this timeline he's on sped it up. If so, it saved the Kings from sitting in the middle on a 3 PG roster even longer. Just about killed Fox and Davion's value in the process.
 
#45
This impending conclusion would be well known by about 2 months into the year. If they stumble out of the gate then the process of transitioning away from Fox, Sabonis, et al will begin anyway. Or it should. If they are still outside the window but competitive then maybe they get aggressive looking to add a 3rd piece. The Kings don't want a GM with some level of comfort right now. Look at Petrie back in the day, look at Vlade to an extent. They got too comfortable at times. Monte was at first as well, but maybe this timeline he's on sped it up. If so, it saved the Kings from sitting in the middle on a 3 PG roster even longer. Just about killed Fox and Davion's value in the process.
you make a good point. Sac is the franchise where you can get a multi million dollar contract and you can just chill cause you’re prolly gonna get let go or doing the bare minimum gets you paid. Either way it’s a win and even if you don’t necessarily get a job after your stop at Sac you’re still rich. I’m prolly one of the biggest Vivek haters here but it seems like he’s doing the right thing so far in terms of urgency to turn it around
 
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#46
This impending conclusion would be well known by about 2 months into the year. If they stumble out of the gate then the process of transitioning away from Fox, Sabonis, et al will begin anyway. Or it should. If they are still outside the window but competitive then maybe they get aggressive looking to add a 3rd piece. The Kings don't want a GM with some level of comfort right now. Look at Petrie back in the day, look at Vlade to an extent. They got too comfortable at times. Monte was at first as well, but maybe this timeline he's on sped it up. If so, it saved the Kings from sitting in the middle on a 3 PG roster even longer. Just about killed Fox and Davion's value in the process.
You might be right which is really completely ridiculous. 2 months into the year isn’t anywhere near enough to evaluate what Fox / Sabonis can do, especially if Fox has another one of his famous slow starts. With the new roster and coach I wouldn’t expect playoffs until year 2 at the earliest really, especially because there’s still a lot of work that needs to be done to fill out the roster. I think it’s completely fair to wait to year 2 of Mike Brown to assess where this is at - that gives 2 full seasons + 2 drafts / off-seasons / trade-deadlines to fill out the roster. We only just added Sabonis and it’s going to take time to see what works

of course if I had my way we’d be on a 5 year plan of having shopped / traded Fox, or keeping him last year and featuring him next year with the intent of moving him. Getting high picks this year and next to try to find pieces to fit next to Haliburton and Mitchell. Hiring a young coach to grow with the team

funny part is if we keep going to these 3 year plans / pushing for the play-in year after year we’re just delaying the inevitable. What happens if this falls short and Sabonis leaves in 2 years? Trade our pick for a 40 year old Lebron?
 

kingsboi

Hall of Famer
#47
is there a deadline when this needs to be made? I'm not sure. If not, Monte has a draft and free agency period coming up to continue building his team for the upcoming season. While what he has done so far doesn't warrant an extension, this franchise needs stability and I think at the end of the day, he will re-sign it's just not happening right now so fans are screaming for Vivek's head because quite frankly, at any given time he can start meddling again and that's all she wrote.
 

Spike

Subsidiary Intermediary
Staff member
#48
Kings Fandom: tripping over a contract extension for a GM, who has a losing record, and hasn't made the playoffs during his tenure. Lolzzzz. Tick tock.
Yeah, because it has been such a long tenure.

The shtick is aging poorly. The only realistic thing I could hold against Monte is not getting rid of Walton soon enough, but given what he started with and where we currently are, he's done a good job. The PDA/Vlade bar has been set so low, but Monte has cleared it easily. This franchise needs consistency, and the team seems to have competence in the right places for once.
 
#49
You might be right which is really completely ridiculous. 2 months into the year isn’t anywhere near enough to evaluate what Fox / Sabonis can do, especially if Fox has another one of his famous slow starts. With the new roster and coach I wouldn’t expect playoffs until year 2 at the earliest really, especially because there’s still a lot of work that needs to be done to fill out the roster. I think it’s completely fair to wait to year 2 of Mike Brown to assess where this is at - that gives 2 full seasons + 2 drafts / off-seasons / trade-deadlines to fill out the roster. We only just added Sabonis and it’s going to take time to see what works

of course if I had my way we’d be on a 5 year plan of having shopped / traded Fox, or keeping him last year and featuring him next year with the intent of moving him. Getting high picks this year and next to try to find pieces to fit next to Haliburton and Mitchell. Hiring a young coach to grow with the team

funny part is if we keep going to these 3 year plans / pushing for the play-in year after year we’re just delaying the inevitable. What happens if this falls short and Sabonis leaves in 2 years? Trade our pick for a 40 year old Lebron?
I'm saying if it's horrible in terms of results they'll know by then. If they are somewhat in it or it even looks OK on the surface then it's safe to assume there is some consistency they can build upon. The result will depend on what Monte's future looks like and it should. No other team will be beating his door down at this point to run a better squad. Like I said, this is actually best for Monte. I wouldn't be surprised if Monte is pushing it off. It's clearly his show and if his moves so far mean anything then this is a 2 year plan since he set his cap up to be almost free after this season. That can't be a coincidence. I mean, the goal right now appears to be reasonably above .500, that's not like saying they want a title here year 1, haha. If he gets that, he can probably fill out his own check. And at any point they could sign an extension so that's not out of the picture either I'd bet.
 
#50
McNair is trending at a C average. I don’t see a reason to extend him. Just because he’s better than Vlade or Pete, it doesn’t mean he’s elite or even above average at this point. Dude has a half a season to either sink or swim.

But beyond all of that, three years, no playoffs, worse season ticket commitments heading into next year. The last fact is the most important to the owners. Always has been, always will be.
I hate McNair but the GM/Coach is an important partnership. If you are giving Brown 4 years you have to at least give Monte another year.
 

Kingster

Hall of Famer
#51
If the report is true, so what? There's plenty of time after the draft and later this summer to extend the contract. When you report on the absence of something it seems to me that you really are your rope's end to try to figure out what to write about.
 
#52
Let him feel the heat a little so he stays sharp and makes good moves. No rush, we still are a bottom tier team. His moves have to show a progression and so far it's been TBD.
 
#53
Let him feel the heat a little so he stays sharp and makes good moves. No rush, we still are a bottom tier team. His moves have to show a progression and so far it's been TBD.
He's had 2 FRP, one was a huge hit for his draft position and the other looks promising but is TBD. That's massively better than our last couple GMs. I don't see how holding him over the fire is going to make him do his job any better.

All it's going to do is put the Kings back in the same position they always land themselves in. GM doesn't get to hire a coach and then fires the coach after a year. GM hires his own coach, then the GM gets fired and the next GM comes in and is already set to fire the previous coach because it wasn't his hire. The cycle just keeps on going.
 
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#55
He's had 2 FRP, one was a huge hit for his draft position and the other looks promising but is TBD. That's massively better than our last couple GMs. I don't see how holding him over the fire is going to make him do his job any better.

All it's going to do is put the Kings back in the same position they always land themselves in. GM doesn't get to hire a coach and then fires the coach after a year. GM hires his own coach, then the GM gets fired and the next GM comes in and is already to fire the previous coach because it wasn't his hire. The cycle just keeps on going.
It really is as simple as this. Good organizations that manage to achieve sustained success are built on stability and a shared sense of respect. There is typically some level of synergy between the owner, the front office, and the coaching staff. There may be disagreement from time to time between these power centers, but there is enough trust to keep everyone pulling in the same direction. A general manager is allowed to hire his head coach. A head coach is allowed to hire his own staff. And either the GM is flexible enough to supply that head coach with players that suit his style/preferred system, or the head coach is flexible enough to maximize the roster that the GM has given him regardless of style/preferred system. And for the benefit of all involved, the owner listens to his GM and his head coach, gives them time to make things work, signs the checks, sits courtside from time to time, and stays out of the way.

But if the owner is fickle and aloof, has an oversized ego, values "disruption" over stability, consistently listens to outside voices, and thinks the experience that earned him his fortune will qualify him to make sound basketball decisions, it almost doesn't matter who the GM or the head coach are. They won't be trusted by such an owner long enough to make a meaningful difference. The owner has to conceive of his GM and his head coach as partners with their own vision, rather than as tools to achieve the owner's vision.

To this point, Vivek hasn't seemed to understand this. He gets squirrely and impatient. He hires "advisors" that exist outside of a proper organizational hierarchy who then undermine the experienced hands that make up that hierarchy. He is easily seduced by name recognition and ultimately listens to the wrong people. This has caused him to make the same mistakes repeatedly, hiring GM's who don't have full control of personnel decisions, who then hire head coaches who don't know if the GM's who hired them will be around long enough to preach patience to Vivek, who cycles through GM's and head coaches like he's changing his underwear.

Extending Monte McNair should be a no-brainer, at this point. You don't cynically hold the fire under his feet. That's no way to run an NBA franchise. Monte already knows that his job is on the line. He has his marching orders, and he's made moves that reflect a commitment to achieving an eventual post-season berth. He's shown competence far beyond any post-Petrie front office the Kings have employed. He's shown guts, too. You give him the job security of at least an additional year beyond the next to see how a McNair/Brown/Sabonis/Fox partnership works out.
 
#56
I’m not really too worried about it but I would prefer it was done. The Dumars exit, ken exit, Mike Brown hire all point to Monte being given the power he needs to run it his way. I don’t think Vivek does that if he doesn’t see Monte sticking around. We don’t need another thing to stress about as fans. Get this pick right or trade it, figure out the Holmes deal, pick a starter at the 2 and sign a wing with the MLE. That is where my focus is
 
#58
I hate McNair but the GM/Coach is an important partnership. If you are giving Brown 4 years you have to at least give Monte another year.
All the Kings gotta do is win next year. Win early, win consistently throughout the year, and make the playoffs. Extending him now just means the Kings are committing themselves to more money unnecessarily. If they suck next year, Vivek is firing Monte with or without a new extension. I really don’t get the drama.
 
#59
Athletes thrive on routine, stability and predictability. Vivek's successful business experience runs counter to that. It seemed like a good thing at the time, but Dumars leaving does not mean that Vivek has learned anything. As another poster pointed out, expect to see Vivek play Wilcox against McNair. Vivek knows no other way.

Extending McNair, even a year or two, would show commitment to see a plan through. Leaving Mcnair as a lame duck GM is more of the same. Unnecessary chaos and pressure added to an already difficult job. Free agents, draft picks, potential coaches, etc see the chaos and most definitely run the other way.

All I can say is good luck Mike Brown and Monte.
 
#60
All the Kings do is give players/people undeserving contracts/extensions thank god they waited if the team makes the playoffs (at least be 500.) than give him a 2-4 year extension if not he should be gone. The whole well we had to give him a extension/overpay thing is ridiculous can someone actually earn a contract in this organization rather than be mediocre and being rewarded for it.

What if the Haliburton (I don't think he's as good as some claimed) for Sabonis trade backfires next season and you extend that guy before the season starts.